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Randall Flagg

Take out the picture of King instead. A picture of the character seems more relevant than his creator, especially seeing that as of now, there are two images of him from the books, two from TV, one of King, and none from the comics. Kuralyov (talk) 05:18, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

My image qualm doesn't stop with Palpatine and Jabba. Those are older FAs that were established before the rigorous overhaul of fair use images in articles. Per the actual criteria, you need to have something about the image beyond simple identification (the only exclusion to that is the infobox image). My fear with the article in FAC is that criticism will arise about how influential this character is King's novels, yet how slim the article is on information about him. If you feel it is ready, then go for it. The worst that can happen is that it is not promoted, in which case you will most likely have a lot more eyes telling you what you can do to improve it, thus making it that much better. There is no draw back to not getting promoted other than not getting that little bronze star. :D  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 19:35, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Great work!

Hey, I just wanted to commend you on the excellent catch you made in the “Alice in Wonderland” AfD discussion – based on the new source you presented, I switched my vote to Keep. Great work! Ecoleetage (talk) 18:06, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Ecoleetage (talk) has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling at someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Cheers, and Happy editing!
Smile at others by adding {{subst:Smile}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

Dark Tower WP discussion

Greetings Dark Tower WikiProject member, I would like to invite you to palaver about a possible expansion of the Dark Tower Project to include all Stephen King related items. I feel that the large amount of projects related to the author warrants his own Project—but as this one already exists—hesitate to begin a new one. Please feel free to leave comments of any kind and be assured that The Dark Tower will be held in the highest regard within the new King Project. Long days and pleasant nights. Blackngold29 02:46, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

Saw traps

From what I remember of the list, it was just that a list of the traps. There wasn't much there but original research and personal observation about each of the traps - which is probably why it got deleted, and rightly so. If there was real content there, then that's another story, but I doubt that content couldn't be found on the individual film pages. But, if you feel that it was wrongly deleted, then I'd go to the deletion review page and start the discussion. Maybe the closing Admin was a little hasty in his decision making.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 01:59, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Saw characters

Hi ghostface, I was looking at the list of Saw characters page and wondered what you thought about rearranging the categories into major characters, minor, just basic victims who don't do anything but get killed, etc? Because of the number of overlapping and recurring characters and very minor ones, arranging them by film is not, imo, the best way to do it. Was just wondering what your opinion was.Darkwarriorblake (talk) 12:00, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

It's not long off but I don't see how doing it before can cause too much harm. The main issues are working out guidelines for who can be classified into the sections. Minor characters are definitely people like the two at the start of Saw4 who do nothing but appear and die.

Personally I'd classify main as Jigsaw, Amanda, possibly Hoffman but would Adam and Co count as well? You could do notable victims but people like Amanda would fit into both. Jeff Reinhart was a major protagonist for one film and appeared in another but would you class him as a main character? But it shouldn't take more than 20 minutes to do the organisation itself.

Throw me some ideas of what you think might work because I'd just make a main, recurring and minor character section and I'm concerned that might not properly cover all the characters and until Saw V comes out, Cecil isn't a recurring character nor is he minor, but I don't consider him a main character :( *is confusing self* Darkwarriorblake (talk) 02:17, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Thinking about it, we could possibly do 'Lead Character', 'Notable Characters', 'Recurring Characters (I don't know if this would still need to exist at that point), 'Minor Characters'. That might work. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 02:20, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

I dunno if most saw characters can be called protagonists, they're all in the situation for being kind of a dick to someone :P. I thought of a section for Jigsaw family but I thought maybe it would be like a huge spoiler though I guess if you're checking the page you're asking for it. Mostly concerning Hoffmans involvement. I think victims and people like the wife who survived that stabbing ordeal in the 4th film would be classed as minor characters. People who get a background story and significant screen presence like Xavier would be notable characters but not protagonists.

It'd be easy to name people as lead or protagonist like Rigg or Daniel (or whatever the cops son was called in II). It's difficult though as Rigg might be better classed as recurring and Kerry was recurring and a victim but definitely not a minor character so she might be better assigned to recurring or some other proper headed section. I think for now if we keep it simple and give it a shot and we can fine-tune any issues as they arise and as we get updated info about Saw V. I mean you could easily label Brit as a protagonist/main/lead character at the moment but the others? I wouldn't seperate them into things like 'cops/detectives' though, thats getting a bit too detailed.Darkwarriorblake (talk) 02:54, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok so after giving it some thought, how do these sound; Main Characters (Important people, i.e. Jigsaw, Amanda, Hoffman), protagonists (Doctor Gordon, Adam, Rigg), supporting characters (People who play a role in the films story but aren't that important (i.e. Zepp, Kerry, Agent Strahm, that guy from III's wife, Lynn I think she was called, cecil), Minor characters (unnamed victims or people only named in credits who appear for a few minutes at best like the two guys at the start of IV and potentially the guy from the start of V). I don't like the sound of protagonist because it doesn't seem to mesh with the other headers, maybe Notable characters, important characters (But someone will surely say "How do you judge who is important"). Give me your thoughts when you have time, I don't mind doing it but I might need your support on improving and maintaining it against revert-happy people. Later.Darkwarriorblake (talk) 21:47, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

True enough. I'm gonna give it a quick crack, will message you to have a look if you're still around.Darkwarriorblake (talk) 21:52, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Hey, what would you class the majority of the cast of Saw II as? The house victims I mean? Daniel would be a protagonist, Amanda is taken care of, some like Addison and Xavier get significant screen time but I wouldn't class her in the same league as Zepp.Darkwarriorblake (talk) 21:59, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Sure, where do I go to voite it?Darkwarriorblake (talk) 22:26, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

Made the changes to the page, I think it looks better. While I was doing it I did notice that a few characters, particularly the Saw II characters have a lot of repeated plot info there so thats somehting that might be worth looking at to.Darkwarriorblake (talk) 22:45, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

It's alphabetical. I only put her up there because it actually says in her description that shes a protagonist. But I tihnk I will move her down to the bottom section until Saw V is released.Darkwarriorblake (talk) 22:58, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

I was thinking that yeah but I didn't know how to do it, perhaps a page "List of main characters in saw" where they get more detail but if they really cannot provide more htan plot summary such as (I think) Adam, then merge. Jigsaw and Amanda have enough real world info I think to warrant their own article and Jigsaw in particular is iconic enough to have one.Darkwarriorblake (talk) 17:06, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Ok, after looking, Adam's page is just regurgitation of the plot, mostly from SAw 1. Theres nothing unique or interesting there that can't be found in the two paragraphs in the character list or in the Saw 1 article, its just fictional biography. Except for maybe mentioning the altered scenes which again I think could go in the main article for hte movie itself, Adams page should go.

Same with Lawrence. His list bio could be expanded slightly and include the real world info but that info is unsourced and theres no excuse for his daughter and wife being on that page.

Eric Matthews is still all plot but contains a decent sized chunk of out-movie info so take a look and see what you think of that one. Might be worth keeping.

The entire Reinhart family is plot regurgitation that can be killed except for the chunks at the bottom which describe the actors take on the character they play. I'd scrap the pages and keep that actor-info.

Rigg's article is pointless, almost nothing there at all.

Allison Kerry is nothing but plot. Gone.Darkwarriorblake (talk) 20:02, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Randall Flagg error

Cyber, sorry to say you've been on the receiving end of my first ever FAC archiving error: I moved the wrong file, and didn't realize until GimmeBot went through. Give me a bit to sort out how to best fix it with Gimmetrow. I am So Sorry. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:54, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Whew, all sorted now, thanks to Gimmetrow. I altered my usual routine tonight, and grabbed the wrong file. I guess I'd best stick to my normal routine from now on. Anyway, the faulty archive is now reinstated at FAC. Regards, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 04:10, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Category:Antiheroes

Why are you adding characters to this? The category was deleted.--CyberGhostface (talk) 16:23, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

More abuse of process at CfD. I guess the next step is DRV. Alansohn (talk) 16:27, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

WP:SAW

Hey. I've noticed the AFD and all the comments made at the projects talk page. I've seen all the movies watched the majority of the commentaries and I'm even doing my senior research paper on the entire franchise. so if you'd like to work on something together and maybe get some others and join as an effort for the project, please let me know, I'll be willing to help with anything. --HELLØ ŦHERE 21:06, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Okay, well, once you've basically decided which, if any, just let me know and I'll be there. --HELLØ ŦHERE 22:21, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Section length, Book titles, et al.

Hi. Can you read this section and then offer your opinion on the points raised, specifically the issue of titles in the FCB, length and detail of given sections, what constitutes “fannishness”, etc.? Thanks. Nightscream (talk) 14:37, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Judith Orloff declined speedy

as it seems to assert notability with "best sellers." Cheers, Dlohcierekim 01:52, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

You did well and deserve praise

		The Surreal Barnstar
		For putting up a spirited and intelligent fight to save the article on the traps in the "Saw" films and for never losing your cool in the midst of the surreal struggle. Ecoleetage (talk) 02:59, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Brendan Croskerry

Hi. I don't really understand why you tagged Brendan Croskerry as an autobiography and as a candidate for SD under A7, but it's not really of my business since I'm not the one who created the article (nor did I significantly contribute to it), and I'm not really familiar with SD at this point.

My question is, why did you revert my edit? If the article is deleted, I wouldn't mind my disam fixes being sent into oblivion, but if the article is kept, then I (or somebody else) will have to tag them again. Was it a mistake or on purpose? Clarification would be very much appreciated :)

And if you could explain to me why you tagged the article the way you did (even going so far as to claim it as NPOV) then I'd be thankful for that as well, as I am considering starting to participate on the whole SD process and I'd like to understand more. I mean, the user has a copy of the article on his user page, but that doesn't mean he's Brendan Croskerry. It just means he was creating that article on his user page, right? Again, clarification would be appreciated.

Thanks. –QuadrivialMind ^(talk) 22:26, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

I wasn't even aware that I reverted your edits to begin with, and I apologize for that. I just restored your edits. As for there being conflict of interest...well, the fact the main contributor shares the same name as the subject's label pretty much speaks for itself.--CyberGhostface (talk) 22:50, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

CG, we do not delete for conflict of interest alone, though it is certainly a very good reason for skepticism. The article indicates songs on recordings that charted. I am myself unable to judge if their being compilations affects the notability, but this would be a question for afd if you want to pursue it.

Similarly, for Vihang A Naik, I removed the speedy also, for although there is undoubtedly strong COI, the career as described is notable & there are references for the notability present in the article--I think it would hold up at afd. DGG (talk) 22:59, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. And thanks for restoring my edit :)

I hadn't realized the label and the page creator shared a name, and after seeing that, I absolutely agree on the autobiography or the COI tag... But not the speedy deletion tag, as the article appeared notable to me (charting singles or albums, and sources for those claims as well).

But I have seen what DGG pointed out, so I won't ask for any more explanations. See you around –QuadrivialMind ^(talk) 01:32, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

User:A Nobody/List of traps in the Saw film series

Hello! Just letting you know that it is now in my userspace should you wish to help continue improving it. Regards, --A Nobody 17:52, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Image overuse in fictional character articles

Hello - I have replaced the tags for the Saw characters. Almost every article about a fictional character is unable to support more than one non-free image to identify the character. There are obviously exceptions for extremely famous characters, but I can't see that these two characters - given that they're not even the main protagonists - qualify for this. I'd suggest trimming them down to one identifying image each, unless a case can be made per WP:NFCC for any additional images (i.e. possibly the jaw trap image, though I'm not even sure that NFCC covers this one, to be honest). Black Kite 20:10, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi - my take would be that Amanda's first two images are enough - sticking to WP:NFCC strictly, the other two images aren't really necessary to increase the reader's understanding of her character WP:NFCC#8, and/or are probably replaceable by text WP:NFCC#1. I'll leave it as is for a while though to see if it prompts any further comments. Thanks, Black Kite 21:45, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

United States-related articles

Ghostface, first I will tell you what I told Dp76764.

You said "not relevant to a US article)" - Yes, they are relevant to an article about a U.S. movie. It is legitimate to link to other official websites and to report on trends about the U.S. movie happening in other countries. Also the Japanese logo is distinct from the U.S. logo, so it may be used in terms of fair use. We are to present a worldwide view of subjects, including U.S. films.

Then you said: " (I have to agree. Can you explain what purpose this has?) (rollback | undo)" - Wikipedia articles are to reflect a worldwide view, so this is not a good rationale. The logo for Juno differs heavily in Japan, and there is a separate Japanese external link. Juno in Japan is as relevant as Juno in the United States. In Bruce Almighty we talk about how the film is viewed in Iran. Each article reflects the movie as it is seen and relevant throughout the whole world, not just in the United States.

Please revert your own edit. Also, please use talk pages and discuss. "Discussing" through edit summaries leads to revert wars. Please see Wikipedia:ES#Use_of_edit_summaries_in_disputes - Out of this spirit please revert your own edit and begin discussion on the talk page. WhisperToMe (talk) 13:02, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

• See Talk:Juno_(film)#Japanese_official_website_and_Japanese_logo WhisperToMe (talk) 13:07, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

If you've seen Saw V...

...can you keep a small eye on the List of Saw characters to make sure it doesn't get out of hand? Or ask someone you know will be able to? I don't think I'll be able to see the film until next week and there are dozens of edits so far, most of which from what I've gleamed are stupid, but I daren't read them fully, I've already maanged to spoil one thing from the film by doing so.Darkwarriorblake (talk) 17:09, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

So have you seen Saw V? If so, do you think Brit or Mallick should be categorised as protagonists? IMO they didn't really have the main character presence, Strahm is the driving character and they did little more than be victims in a trap with no real resolution or purpose. Xavier had more backstory and screen time. I dunno so its why I'm asking but I don't think they were really anything more than support cast. Strahm and Hoffman are certainly the main stars.

And Strahm sucked IMO, bad actor and bad lines. Who talks that much to themselves? I don't think Rigg did that at all. "You were meant to be the hero *WAHHHHH*"Darkwarriorblake (talk) 18:55, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

WHAT!?!?!?!??! Why Is the Saw Traps Article Deleted?!?

Okay, I understand why the article got deleted. However if it did get deleted because it supposedly
was a spoiler page, then you, a Wikipedia Moderator, or someone else should've put a
humongus "Spoiler Warning" up. Also Rollinman is right, the traps connect the plot, movies,
characters, the Modius Oprindi, etc.
I know it's a little late to bring all this up but seriously, someone should've should've circulated
something to the Wikipedians or at least put up a warning of some sort. And as far as the traps'
relivency goes, they help connect everything in the movies together as well as helps some people
understand the traps' respective movies better. Please reconsider putting the article back up (with
a "Spoiler Warning" this time!)

Rww313 (talk) 17:14, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

If you want additional real-world context for Saw traps, I came across this Wired article. Thought you might want to use it. —Erik (talk • contrib) 21:15, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

The deleted list of Saw traps

Is there a way to access what it used to look like before it was deleted? Maybe some of it can be copied and pasted to other articles. Eg, the jaw splitter info to Amanda's article, etc, etc. Yeldarb68 (talk) 19:17, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

• It is important to understand that one of the key reasons that the article was deleted was for failing WP:OR. Merging the content elsewhere just creates more original research problems, but instead scatters it over many articles. This is why the AfD was closed as delete rather than merge. Merging the content elsewhere just pushes the problem elsewhere. --Hammersoft (talk) 19:31, 28 October 2008 (UTC)
• I disagree with the notion that every single sentence on that page is original research. I was just contemplating the fact that well expressed and footnoted sentences and analyses of a trap may be relevant to a character, as the traps are usually with a symbolic irony to the victim associated with it. Yeldarb68 (talk) 20:59, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

• Finding out-of-universe references to support any analysis will be quite difficult. For the most part, they do not exist. --Hammersoft (talk) 21:06, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

• J/w, am I on your watchlist or something?--CyberGhostface (talk) 21:29, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

• Just trying to help out. --Hammersoft (talk) 21:38, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

• I'm not mad, I was just curious.--CyberGhostface (talk) 21:39, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

List of Saw Characters

It was better before when the characters were categorized by the first film they appeared in. As it is now: 1) It is more difficult to navigate through with the "minor characters" being such a long list. 2) The labels 'antagonist', 'protagonist', 'supporting', and 'minor' are subjective and arguably fall under Original Research. 3) It is spoiler-like to outline which characters eventually become protagonists and antagonists. Of course the page will give spoilers, but giving spoilers in the contents doesn't seen appropriate, as this is a list, someone might want to browse down the contents list for a specific character, only to be spoiled about something else in the contents list.

It should be reverted to the old structure of organizing characters based on their first appearance in my opinion. Mostly for reason number 2).

What do you think?

Yeldarb68 (talk) 20:44, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free media (Image:Amandaadamsawiii.jpg)

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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Amandawithadam.jpg)

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Orphaned non-free media (Image:Biglove 2.JPG)

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If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 05:08, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Please do not edit articles that you have no personal knowledge about!

Regarding Talk:Millikan_High_School, someone removed Gay-Straight Alliance, if you take a look at the list of clubs you will see that the GSA is not currently a club. Even though the principal, Jeffrey Cornejo Ed.D.(a U.S. court ordered an injunction against him) was almost begging for this club to get start but alas, no cigar. Regarding the motto, the one on the website is not the motto. The official motto is in the quad near the bullitin board under the 900 building, maybe you can check it out or I can send you a picture. The wesite is often stagnet ot "404'ing" due to a turnover in leadership and webmasters. As far as I know you did not attend or work at this school, so please leave the editing up to users knowledgable about the subject. If you please, BUTT OUT!

Thank you, 71.108.249.156 (talk) 06:00, 30 October 2008 (UTC)