Talk:Flash mob

Protests

There is a fundamental difference between a protest or public demonstration and a flash mob. Organising a protest by usage of sms and other ICT does not make it a flash mob. I think we all agree that a flash mob is about a performance of people who have no ties, and does not attempt at spreading a message or even attack somebody (verbally, physically or whatever). There have been protests of all forms in history, including silent or artful ones. That does not make them flash mobs, though. In this sense the political protests in China and Romania do clearly not qualify for this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.34.5.86 (talk) 03:18, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Sidekick ID

There is a television ad for the recently released Sidekick ID that features a flash mob. It begins with teens texting each other a building location. After they arrive someone texts "now" and a silly string fight breaks out. I think this information should be added since it's probably one of the most mainstream appearances of a flash mob yet. Hackaday 06:58, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Italy section

I corrected some of the grammar and spelling mistakes in the Italy flash mob section, though I can't help but feel that the piece as a whole makes very little sense. I think the whole section needs to be rewritten.

Edit: having re-read the italy section (after some correction), I think it's safe to conclude that it's a disaster area. Let's demolish it. Preferably to make room for a hyperspace bypass. No more of that dangerous mucking about with bistromathics, then.

Is it possible to flash-mob a wikipedia talk page? Presumably that's where they'd be expecting a flash-mob.

Hence, it's the last place they'd look. Maybe we should do it. That was a haiku.

It wasn't, but I made you count.

Origins

I question the origins listed on this page. I draw your attention to an article, "Voice of the Cabal" by Marc Fisher, in the Dec. 4, 2006 issue of the New Yorker. The primary subject of the article is the career of WBAI radio announcer Bob Fass. Discussing one of the influences on Fass, Fisher writes:

Back in the fifties, Fass's radio hero, Jean Shepherd, suffering a moment of overwhelming doubt, had asked his listeners to gather in an even he called the Milling. Hundreds of people convened on a dark street corner in lower Manhattan and just stood around. The police arrived and asked questions, and, as Shepherd had instructed them, the listeners declined, politely, to respond. Then, without further communication, they went home.

Is this not a flash mob by any other name? MarkPritchard 18:30, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

--Mark, can you track down the primary source (the original recording, transcript, or at least date)? Did the people gather and/or disperse suddenly? If the element of suddenness is absent, a strict interpretation of the definition of "flash mob" would not apply to that event. It's similar enough though that I think it definitely warrants mention at bottom of the Origins section, just as the similar Niven concept does. Cheesebikini 08:19, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Clay Shirky mentions Flash Mobs in his book "Here Comes Everybody" - and in related talks and interviews which can be found on video across the internet. He discusses their political implications at length, including the "smiling" flash mob where in some eastern country, flash mobs were adopted as a form of protest. To this, the authorities reacted harshly, but once they were banned, a new flash mob was concieved - with instructions to just "smile" in the red square I think - and the soldiers/guards couldn't arrest anyone because they didn't know if the smiling people were just happy or taking part.

He also references some kind of origins: as a prank played on "hipsters" - with the idea that if you emailed instructions or posted them on blogs, hipsters would do it, as long as it made them look cool. Probably another one to verify, but I'm sure there's some truth in there, and he'll have referenced it. Sorry about the sketchy info. ale 09:25, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Flash crowds are not flash mobs

People keep adding content to the flash mob entry stating that the concept of "flash crowds" created by Larry Niven (in his short story of the same name in 1973) is equivalent to the concept of "flash mobs."

These concepts are very different: news events draw people to flash crowds, messages passed around for the sole sake of starting flash mobs draw people to flash mobs. Flash crowds are enabled and encouraged by (instantaneous transportation), this is obviously not the case with flash mobs. Flash crowds are spontaneous and aren't sparked by an organizer; flash mobs (or at least, their initiation) are planned ahead. The "flash" in flash mobs indicates quick gathering, short duration, quick dispersal; the "flash" in flash crowds indicates instantaneous speed of travel to a place. Flash crowds in the story lasted a long time, flash mobs by definition are very short, usually less than 20 minutes long.

Yes, both terms contain the word "flash" and both involve groups of people, but they're very different concepts and claims that they're equivalent are factual errors. I've corrected at least 5 versions of this error. Please do not repeat it and keep an eye out for it from others.

72.153.69.230 22:21, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Literature

Larry Niven wrote about "The Permanent Floating Riot Club" about 30 years ago. I depended on (1) fast communication, and (2) fast transport.

Consider it, for what it's worth.

Robert A. Heinlein wrote The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress about a computer-mediated revolution. Same kind of stuff. He and Niven both should be mentioned here - and the anti-globalization movement and Second Superpower more prominently, for that matter. It appears that this is how they will do things in future.

-- Neither fast communication nor fast transport are defining elements of flash mobs

Critical Mass article

How about making Critical Mass a related article? A-giau 22:14, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

---

I think the Usage and Effects section needs to be fleshed out enormously. This article is endlessly pedantic on silly questions like the origin of the term, which frankly nobody cares about, and contains *not a word* about the potential political uses and misuses of flash mobs, which is everything. This imbalance is ludicrous -- Will any future popular political revolution be conceivable without something very closely resembling a flash mob? Politics are arguably the single most important aspect of flash mobs, and they get hardly a mention in this article. EB

Thanks for bringing this up on the talk page rather than publishing it in the main entry. But -- this is the wrong place to look for what you seek. You're looking for an outlet for opinion about flash mobs and for prognostications about the future of flash mobs. That's not what Wikipedia is. It's an encylopedia, and in particular: What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_soapbox and What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_crystal_ball. Feel free to add your opinions and predictions to MetaWiki or to your own blog. Cheesebikini 18:36, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Point taken but honestly, there's a middle ground here between opinion/prognostication and dictionary pedantry that's not being staked out. A chemical formula for gunpowder is accurate as far as it goes, but it would hardly make a satisfactory Wikipedia article. Brief mention of the wealth of speculation on the impact of flash mobs is entirely germane to an article on it. Cf. Wikipedia articles on the Internet, the Segway or the Human Genome Project. Very early going on each but Wikipedia scribes have felt a much freer hand in discussing their potential impact. How is a flash mob different? EB

My "Flash Mobbing" article

I worked content from one of my own articles into the [Flash mob] article. As the author of the article, I hereby authorise the use of it in the Wikipedias and under the GFDL. –– Constafrequent ^{(talk page)} 02:22, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

• FlashMosh® is a small, but growing British phenomenon, whereby a group of persons assemble in a rock music venue in much the same way that any normal Flash Mob will, but with a second agenda - to network ever growing numbers of rock-music lovers around the UK, and ultimately, the world.... [1]

--Removed this from the article, as it seems like an advertisement for something that isn't really that popular, according to Google: one website and a bunch of MySpace links. Sum0 20:18, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

-- Sounds good. The wording was a bit creepy. So very "PR". Ckamaeleon 09:17, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

-- Right. In any case, it's fully legal to refer to and quote -any- article from -any- news source in Wikipedia; permission from the author isn't required and is irrelevant. Hundreds of print media articles and probably thousands of blog entries like the one cited above have been written about flash mobs and we should reference only the most relevant and valuable ones.

At the point I posted permission here, the majority of this article had content from my article. It's great to see how well the Flash mob article has developed! –– Constafrequent ^{(talk page)} 01:37, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Content

What on earth is this:

An anonymous person named "Bill" was the creator of the flash mob phenomenon. Flash mobs get a lot of people to do something that was a little punk, and a little oppositional, just because it was a clever idea and they wanted to see what would happen when so many people got together. "Bill" also saw it as a way to make virtual space into real, physical space, which means that it brought a group of people together who previously were only connected by email addresses. When "Bill" started the flash mobs, he saw it as a gag with an artistic dimension. He tried to make the mobs absurd and apolitical, in part because he wanted them to be fun, also because he didn't want anyone to see them as disrespectful of protests, or as a parody.

...and what is it doing on Wikipedia? It is incorrectly presented as fact, it is anecdotal, it is poorly written, it is POV. The rest of the article is almost as bad. This article does not distinguish between external links and referenced sources. I could go on, but what's the point? I'm starting an edit as soon as I post this. Tenebrous 09:39, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

It was introduced as part of a set of edits by Liz2287 (talk · contribs) on 09:05, 7 December 2005 UTC, the only edits that user ever made. The first part, about the Larry Niven story is probably verifiable (or not), so I will leave that, but I will remove the paragraph that you cite for lack of verification. More than seven hours have passed since you wrote you were starting an edit. Hu 17:11, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Harper's Article

Bill Wasik's article in the March 2006 Harper's Magazine can probably now be considered the defining source on the origins. I am not a hardcore Wiki-er, but anyone who's interested should read the article immediately and edit accordingly. The current reference to the article is uninformative.

Here's a Slate.com bit about that. It links ot the Harper's story: http://www.slate.com/id/2137039/fr/rss/ ; http://www.harpers.org/MyCrowd_01.html Ckamaeleon 21:40, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

The dating on the Harper's Article is dubious at best. I encountered a flash mob for the first time in downtown San Francisco in early 2003 on the way to work, and told co-workers about it when I arrived. My boss knew what it was and explained it to me, and since she quit in March 2003, the origin of the phenomenon could not have been two months after that.

The Harper's article is available in three parts at archive.org. http://web.archive.org/web/20070206104813/http://www.harpers.org/MyCrowd_01.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.196.144.235 (talk) 16:02, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

Geographical bias

Recently, college students across the country have been using Facebook.com as a breeding ground for such flash mobs

Which country is this paragraph talking about? rbonvall 02:17, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

A bit U.S.-centric on the contributor's part, huh? Probably the U.S. Here's text fro mthe Facebook article:

By October 2005, Facebook had nearly completed its expansion to smaller universities and junior colleges throughout the United States and Canada. In addition, Facebook expanded to 21 universities in the United Kingdom, and added the entire Instituto Tecnologico system in Mexico, the entire University of Puerto Rico system in Puerto Rico and the entire University of the Virgin Islands system in the U.S. Virgin Islands. On December 11, 2005, Facebook expanded further, adding universities in Australia and New Zealand. As of December 2005, the network had expanded to include 2,000+ college and 25,000+ high school institutions across the United States, Canada, Mexico, the UK, Australia, New Zealand and Ireland, including more than 11 million users worldwide. [7]

If we check the edit's date and find that it was before Facebook expanded to other places, we can probably narrow it down to the U.S. or Canada. Ckamaeleon 21:46, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

I just removed the phrase "across the country" due to the lack of context. It's not really necessary, anyway. -- Beland 00:29, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Odd section removed

This shows how flash mobs can be, and ultimately were, co-opted by corporations for the purpose of advertisement for certain products. However, flash mobs were intended to be thought of as novel artistic performances with a heavily subversive element within them.

The first sentence doesn't really add any information, and is vaguely anti-corporate POV. The second sentence seems POV as well, is unsourced, and it's unclear who is doing the intending. -- Beland 00:28, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

An Obsolete Term?

The term "flash mob" may be inappropriately applied to all unusual, massive events that are promoted primarily through the internet. For example, the Pillow fight flash mob is hardly different from an ordinary pillow fight, it just happens to be much larger and take place in public. I would have renamed this article to "massive pillow fights" instead. The distinction is that most flashmobs do not have a point.

A good example of a "flash mob" is something like this: "Show up at 42nd & Broadway at 3:05 and for 2 minutes, wave your arms in circles. Disperse."

This is different from a pillow fight flash mob because the pillow fight actually has a purpose, and can last for several hours. It is simply a massive public event. I feel that the term "flash mob" pidgeonholes events into a category of irrelevance.

Please be careful when labeling something a "flash mob" as opposed to simply a "massive public event".

Oh, god, yes, please. Recury 14:18, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

Woo-hoo!

First was in 2003, eh? Excellent! That means that when I came up with the idea in 1995, it WAS original and not just something I'd heard about. I'm brilliant, I really am. --Bonalaw 17:46, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry Bonalaw, but my pet hedgehog came up with the idea back in 1827, just after I invented the Internets. Cheesebikini 20:15, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

That was the same year that I patented cold fusion, discovered a separate free form of renewable energy, made contact with intelligent extra-terrestrial life, prevented all forms of vandalism from wikipedia, cloned an army of humans identical to myself, proved the existence of God and the non-existence of God, found concrete evidence which proves the big bang's occurrence, calculated the fate of the universe and the proved existence of dark matter, ensured that world-wide peace would preside forever, found a new crop which solves world hunger, prevented several armageddons and apocalypses, determined what actually happened at Roswell, JFK's assassination and whether the US landed on the moon, worked out what women really want and prevented all vandalism of Wikipedia forever.

I didn't tell anyone until now, though. -- The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.141.67.208 (talk • contribs) 11:01, June 23, 2006.

The date of the first successful flash mob

Does the 3 of June is a correct date for the first successful flashmob? Because according to the text in http://www.harpers.org/MyCrowd_01.html the first successful one is dated on the 17 of June of 2003. On the other hand, the 3 of June is the date of the first flashmob, which was failed. 150.214.129.2 16:10, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

When you type in 'flash mob' on YouTube, the first video that comes up is of a group of Japanese people chasing innocent passersby down the road (http://youtube.com/watch?v=bj0Ma2CsHME). This reminded me of an episode of Trigger Happy TV, where basically the same exact thing was done (http://youtube.com/watch?v=tCrDgm_H678). Many of the sketches, in fact, could be considered to be flash mobs. For instance, I recall a sketch where a man was eating a sandwitch on a park bench, and about 50 came up to him and started worshipping him. User:RocketRocketRocketShip 20:43, 12 February 2007 (GMT)

I just thought of Trigger Happy TV also. RocketRocketRocketShip didn't mention that Trigger Happy ran from 2000 to 2002 so any such sketch predates the 2003 instances. In the Origins section of the article it states "The origins of the flash mobs were unknown [prior to the May 2003 instance]." Clearly one such origin was Trigger Happy TV. But I see how perhaps since it's for a TV show it's a different flavor of flashmob. But I think it would be worth putting Trigger Happy TV in the article somewhere. One thing to consider is that many articles have something like a "Flashmobs in pop culture" section, and Trigger Happy could be mentioned in there. The article could use one of these sections anyway, since flashmobs have lately been used in advertisements a bunch. Any thoughts? Loniousmonk (talk) 21:44, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd put the Trigger Happy mention in the "precursors" section, noting it as a very similar concept predating the coinage of the term "flash mob".--Father Goose (talk) 11:01, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Would James Downey's "paint the moon" exercise count as an early flash mob? --Tedd (talk) 04:21, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

FLASHMOB should be called the phenomena, that is created upon this Term. The actual human behavior to interrupt social life planed by any media, couldn't be something invented in 2003... again, if this continues to exist furthermore, our group "Rattenknecht" would claim this title. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.85.64.157 (talk) 08:36, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Detail

How much detail do you think should be gone into about the actual flash mobs themselves? Should the main/first flash mobs be described in detail and then the rest summarised, the main/first described in detail and the rest listed in bullet points (possibly in the format: Date, Time, Country, City, Nature of event) or should only a few select flash mobs be included? I'm gonna work on this article to convert it to a Wikipedia style (especially the meandering text and frequent POV), but there are hundreds of flash mobs in the UK alone.

Any feedback appreciated!

Benedictwest 16:54, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Any specific notable flashmobs should have their own pages. They should not be gone into in detail here as this article is about the flashmob phenomenon rather than a list and description of all or some of the flashmobs, the ones given here should be examples.

Incidentally, did anyone see flashmob the opera on BBC 3. That was ace! Benjaminstewart05 17:08, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Would it be proper (I think it would be useful) therefore to create an article listing the flash mobs, with links to notable ones, with a link to it here to save listing any flash mobs here at all, save for the first few and a couple of examples?

Benedictwest 17:26, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

It would be "proper" methinks to create an article listing notable flashmobs, but they would have to be notable. If they were just get togethers of 9 people in a pub, they can obviously not go on, but if they are large spontaneous crowds of people which have made an impact on the field and perhaps on the area they can go on a list. As to creating seperate pages to flashmobs, I think that the flashmob would have to be extremely notable to have its own page, extremely notable. Benjaminstewart05 07:13, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Or alternatively, you could create a list and then merge what you would say about notable flashmobs with the place pages, for example Avenida Paulista and london eye. Creating seperate areas on those articles about notable flashmobs may be more useful. Benjaminstewart05 07:17, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I think it would be more useful, if I was researching flashmobs, to have a comprehensive list of all the flashmobs and a description of notable ones with some brief text about the less notable ones. It should be done by country with them listed chronologically? The locations would obviously be linked to the appropraite page, as you said (i.e.London Eye) and then the appropriate info. would be placed on those location articles. A link to thatpage would obviously be put on this page. Really notable flashmobs (e.g. Flashmob - The Opera) should have their own articles, methinks - I'm actually in the process of writing a page dedicated to The Opera. The article 'Flashmob' or 'Flash mob' should then only refer to the concept/event 'Flashmob' with perhaps references to the first couple and the most famous ones. Do you agree? I think this is most useful and Wikipedian.

Benedictwest 12:47, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Nathan Barley

I watched the programme on-and-off when it was on, but can't seem to remember any references to Flash mobs (neither are there any on the Wikipedia article). Although it seems to fit in with the whole internet-organised-random event thing, is it really a related article?

Benedictwest 17:46, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

KOLLECTION MOBART #1, BERLIN (new flashmb)

Ort: Berlin, Auguststr. 69 Datum: Samstag, 9. Dezember 2006 Zeitpunkt: 15:30 Dauer: 10 Minuten

Aufruf: Schicke diese Einladung an möglichst viele Deiner Berliner Freunde �" je mehr wir sind, um so besser!

1. Für die Durchführung des MOBART bringe Buntstifte oder andere Zeichenmaterialien sowie DIN-A-4 Papier mit.

2. Finde Dich zwischen 15:30 bis 15:55 vor dem KUNSTWERKE Gebäude ein �" auf der gegenüberliegenden Straßenseite. Du wirst dort einen jungen Mann bemerken, der zeichnet.

3. Verhalte dich möglichst unauffällig, so dass niemand eine Ansammlung von Menschen bemerkt...gehe immer weiter auf und ab... (auch wenn du mit Freunden kommst �" verhaltet euch unauffällig!)

4. Nähere dich dem zeichnenden jungen Mann und sage ihm die Parole: “Zeichne mir ein Portrait“ (nicht vergessen!). Er wird dir ein Blatt geben, auf dem du detaillierte Anweisungen für die MOB-Aktion findest, die in wenigen Minuten an einem Ort in unmittelbarer Nähe stattfinden wird.

5. Lese die Informationen aufmerksam und stecke sie in die Tasche. Sie dürfen im Augenblick der Aktion nicht gesehen werden.

6. Am Ende der MOB-Aktion (genauer Zeitpunkt!) musst Du unbedingt den Schauplatz verlassen, so wie es in den Anweisungen beschrieben wird.

Copyright?

From the article:

Presented by Patrick O'Connell, Flashmob -- The Opera featured well-known music from popular operas including Madam Butterfly, Don Giovanni and La Traviata, set to a new story by Stephen Powell, with new lyrics by Tony Bicât. The BBC Concert Orchestra was conducted by Robert Ziegler, who also arranged the music.

The opera is a contemporary take on the myth of Orpheus and Eurydice. An engaged couple, Mike (sung by tenor Nicholas Ransley) and Sally (soprano Rachel Nicholls), come unstuck over Mike’s obsession with football. The station formed the backdrop to the action as Sally decides whether or not to run away with a handsome stranger (baritone Rodney Clarke) or stay with Mike. The three soloists are rising opera stars who between them have sung at Glyndebourne, the Royal Opera House, the Paris Châtelet, Sadler’s Wells and the BBC Proms.

From the BBC's official web site: "There will be something like 200 people on site, including a 62-piece orchestra, a choir of singing policemen and a chorus of football fans … and all while it’s 'business as usual' at the station. It’s not the first place you’d think of doing a live opera!"

Although the last sentence says "from the BBC's official web site" and presents a quote, the whole of the three paragraphs is taken directly from a BBC site [[2]]. I am not well versed in Copyright Law, but that does seem like it would be copyright infrindgement, and certainly worth looking into by someone with more knowledge than myself. Mip | Talk 20:00, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Davis Entry

The Davis flashmob happened moments ago, about 3 hours and 30 minutes from this timestamp. Why is it being removed, when there is legitimate evidence in the form of video supporting such? If other UC campuses are justified, why are we scrutinized?

Comment mainly aimed at the editor, Chriscf. What justification do you have of removing our event?

Philip Chan, UCD Freshman --CJChun 23:32, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

The problem lies in your use of the words "moments ago" and "our event". This article is not a dumping ground for everyone to list their own flashmobs. Chris cheese whine 23:56, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

You still did not give a valid reason. There is media coverage on the SF event, and thus in progress Davis will have an entry justified by textual reporting (Newspaper). If anything, the only thing you could correctly/appropriately do was change tense than delete the whole entry. Or am I not correct in assuming this is free-source software than will allow information so long as it is in justifiable means? --CJChun 00:30, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

were not just placing any flashmob either. this is the largest one done in the united states. gueniss book of world records predicted around 800 people if not more. They have an aerial shot and will need to count to get a better estimate.

May I suggest tagging this article as needing confirmation, rather than deleting it, and allowing time for a textual report, as you pointed out we should have, to be released? dmcmurry

The above would be my sentiments exactly. --CJChun 00:51, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Because Wikipedia just doesn't work that way. The addition fails so many policies it just isn't funny. Chris cheese whine 00:58, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

So then once this hit newspapers, showing confirmation of GWR, will that be sufficient to repost, or will it continue to be removed... and then specifically, for the article you have several times removed, what sources will suffice? dmcmurry

See Wikipedia:Reliable sources. Two things to bear in mind - such that this doesn't become a laundry list, it is only appropriate to include it if it was a particularly large or important flashmob (in the grand scale of things - it will not add anything to the article if not), and you should not add it under any circumstances if you were involved in any way. This article is not a list of every flashmob that has ever been, it includes a short-ish list of notable flashmobs to illustrate what a flashmob is. Chris cheese whine 01:30, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps a page that constitutes a list of flash mobs is in order. Otherwise, who gets to decide what mobs are mentionable, and what aren't?

What happened to the other UC articles? As clever as the BestBuy Flashmob is, it only constituted eighty people. You'd think some of the more sizable ones (which were up less than twelve hours ago) should remain. Bobquest3

Link

Will this suffice for evidence needed to keep the Davis entry up? CJChun 21:09, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I've added a citation. It's going to be in the Book of World Records so I think it should be included in the article. Weezcake 21:39, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Chris -- besides having a link to the school newspaper AND having the record for the biggest flashmob (it will be in the 2008 Guiness book), why did you remove the UCD part again? I'd think that the world record would be appropriate in the article.. Weezcake 00:38, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

If it's setting a record in 2008 Guiness, it should at LEAST be mentioned. Isn't Wikipedia a compilation of knowledge? I think the UC flashmobs should be left up, because, as Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and is trying to categorize the world, why not add the little things?--128.120.166.138 21:58, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Isn't Wikipedia a compilation of knowledge? No, it is an encyclopedia. Chris cheese whine 00:19, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Then why are there lists of other notable flashmobs? Like the "first one in India"? Weezcake 01:16, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Where are your "multiple, independent, non-trivial, reliable" sources? If you feel that the other events are not notable, feel free to take those out too. Chris cheese whine 01:40, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Page for flash mobs

I propose this page be trimmed down and a new page is started taht consists of a list of flash mobs. The way this page reads now, it sounds like Canada hosts more flash mobs than the US. That doesn't sound right to me. I say either that, or the UC flash mobs be restored.

I second that sentiment. dmcmurry

I personally see a lot of entries that should be removed for the same reason as the UCD one. Chris, how come you haven't cleaned those up yet? Weezcake 07:41, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

{{sofixit}}? Chris cheese whine 12:49, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree. There have been hundreds of flash mobs, it's a ridiculous, pointless exercise to list individual flash mobs just because they occurred. Only significant flash mobs (the first ever, biggest ever, etc.) should be mentioned. Cheesebikini 07:27, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

"Around the World" section - boiling it down

The time has come to remove all the noise from the entry -- particularly from the "Around the World" section where plenty of unencyclopedic content (editorializations, non-widely recognized claims lacking citations, mentions of activities that weren't flash mobs) had been growing like weeds. First I removed all the unencyclopedic content -except- "first flash mob in country X" citations. Then I removed "first flash mob in country X" content as well. Some will argue that the latter is notable enough to be listed, I would disagree, but if we list some countries in this way we should list them all. All that remains now is the first flash mob, the biggest flash mob, and content involving flash mobs accompanied by notable political or criminal activity. Cheesebikini 20:35, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Claims made in the China and India sections lack citations. Please add them if you have access to them. Cheesebikini 20:40, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Personally, I believe the whole list could just be deleted and some major ones put into the article. Weezcake 06:46, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Allow me to differ with you on this. I do believe this can be valuable since flash mobs or often small per defenition. Maybe the way the stats are presented are not perfect (perhaps a nice table, a graph with reference per country, per subject, in stead of just stating the different flash mobs text style ... just a thought) But I do believe if these events are referencable in the media they should be added. Teardrop onthefire 10:06, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, the term "Around the World" to describe flashes mobs in countries other than the USA strikes me as too American-centric (is that a word?) --62.49.193.162 10:54, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I didn't add that term, but when it was added it included U.S. entries. So, it's not used to describe events in countries outside the U.S. (We removed the U.S. entries because they were nonencyclopedic, or repeated the "first flash mob" info already described above.) BUT - I think "other notable flash mobs" is a more accurate and descriptive label, I will change it to that. Cheesebikini 23:37, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Term's First Use

The following paragraph was removed on 8 March 2007, for the reason "rm [remove] promo link:"

The term "flash mobs" was created by Sean Savage to describe the phenomena on the Web site cheesebikini, and this posting was where flash mobs were first mentioned on the Web.

I propose that this content be replaced in the article, because it is significant and relevant information. The purpose of the content is to provide significant, encyclopedic information about the history (specifically the first use) of the idea and meme (not just the word) "flash mob." The invention of the term "flash mob" and the first mention of it on the Web is significant enough to warrant inclusion in a "flash mob" encyclopedia entry. This content is more relevant and encyclopedic than most of the links in the "External Links" section, for instance.

Full disclosure: I -am- the author of the entry this link leads to, and the owner of the site and domain where it's hosted. Because of that and to avoid appearance of conflict of interest, I won't add the content back again.

But I ask that neutral and independent Wikipedia editors (you!) consider whether this content and the contents of the page it links to are important and relevant here, and if you think they are, please add this information back to the entry. Cheesebikini 19:53, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for raising this on talk instead of simply putting it back in. On further reading, I suppose a brief note could go somewhere that the term "flash mob" has been used to describe this phenomenon at least on the Web since 2003[ref]. I don't see why you or your site needs to go into the article text, but if it can be established that there is no older, using it as a reference shouldn't pose that much of a problem, though we may need corroboration later. Chris cheese whine 20:01, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, thanks. I suggest that -where- a term and meme first appeared is as relevant as when it appeared. This provides further core information for researchers to follow in tracing flash mob history. As for corroboration, here's more: (1) A citation in the original paragraph leads to substantiation of this claim by Bill Wasik (who is established elsewhere in article as leader of the first flash mob). (2) At the following link, the author(s) of Word Spy, a site that traces the etymology of neologisms, corroborate the first-use claim: http://www.wordspy.com/words/flashmob.asp.Cheesebikini 20:20, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

In that case, the wordspy link in addition to your actual use can be used together as references for the origination, but I still don't feel there's a need to include more in the main text than that it first surfaced in 2003 on the Web. Chris cheese whine 21:38, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Falun Gong

Was the April 25, 1999 protest of 10k practitioners of Falun Gong in Beijing a flash mob? Why or why not? Personally, I tend to think yes which would make it both largest and earliest. TMLutas 19:25, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Nope, because the protestors didn't gather suddenly and didn't disperse suddenly. (And I think, that gathering wasn't brief in duration, which would be another disqualifier... I may be wrong on the last point.) Remember, people have been gathering in large groups for centuries. That in itself is not a flash mob. (But thanks for bringing this up in discussion first, rather than just adding it to the article.) Cheesebikini 01:56, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

I'd say this would be a protest, not a flashmob. And as Cheesebikini said already, it does not fit the definition of a flash mob. Weezcake 10:03, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Substantial recent edits (drawing comparisons with smart mob)

Reading over the article, I recently got bitten by the question of what exactly is and isn't a flash mob. Ultimately I drew the conclusion (backed up by many now-included references) that "flash mob" is commonly used to refer to just about anything that falls under the broader "smart mob" term. I've changed the article extensively to note the confusion, and the distinction. Any objections to the changes? I'm not claiming I did a perfect job, but I think I got the work well under way.--Father Goose 06:58, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

RE: Media use of "flash mob" to cover many other things -- good questions, I've struggled w/ this too, whether to mention that the media has often done this. My approach has been to use the definition put forth by the originator and early organizers of flash mobs, and to highlight what makes a flash mob distinct from other concepts. When a reporter or a Wikipedia contributor tags a concert, or, say, a political candidate's rally, or a concert a flash mob, I consider that a mistake and a misuse of the term. If we let the definition of flash mob grow to also include traditional concerts, what's the point of the new term? But -- is it appropriate/encyclopedic to point this (media misuse of the term) out in the definition? I'm on the fence and will go w/ your decision but am interested to read what others think. Cheesebikini 18:19, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

RE: culture jamming - I'm removing the claim that flash mobs are a form of culture jamming because (at least according to wikipedia's "culture jamming" definition), not all flash mobs are instances of culture jamming. In fact, to date most have not been instances of culture jamming. Not all flash mobs involve mass media transformation and not all are driven by the political, anticorporate/commercial motivations that define culture jamming. Cheesebikini 18:19, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

RE: smart mobs claim - This statement was already made lower in the article; removed new "smart mobs" claim from the top. Cheesebikini 18:24, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Well, people kept adding things that weren't flash mobs to the article, and I realized even I wasn't really sure what was a flash mob and what wasn't. So I did some research and found that the confusion was common -- just about every kind of smart mob was being called a "flash mob" and even several not-"smart" mobs as well.

I think the reason for this is twofold. "Flash mob" is pretty unspecific, so it's easy to apply it to a variety of different things, not just whimsical activities. Secondly, "flash mob", as a term, has gotten much more exposure in the press than "smart mob", so it's become a de facto synonym for all smart mobs.

Making note of the (very common) confusion will help to keep "flash mob" a distinct term from "smart mob", which is a good term in its own right, though less well-known.--Father Goose 05:47, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

Notability

I strongly recommend users review WP:NOT, WP:ADVERT, WP:Notability and WP:WEB before they add more content about current, upcoming, or past flash mobs. 99% of flash mobs instantly fail Wikipedia's notability guideline and their addition to the article is not encyclopedic. The first flash mob and other flash mobs that have gained international attention such as the ones that have occurred in police states are good examples. Ones from cities or universities are often only covered by local media and number in the thousands. Per WP:NOT Wikipedia is not a directory to your flash mob websites or a record of your club events. If you are interested in listing your flash mob events you may attempt to make an article such as Largest flash mob events but even then it may be WP:SPEEDY for notability. Mkdw^talk 10:10, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Incorrect Usage?

How was the Victoria Station silent rave not a flash mob? And more importantly, where is the citation that it was not such? The linked article refers to it as a flash mob, and saying it is incorrect is merely one editor's opinion; Wikipedia requires reliable sources to back that up. --SuperNova |T|C| 19:24, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, "flash mob" is being used quite often to refer to nearly any kind of smart mob, and some editors of this article are trying to hold back that tide (this may end up being a losing battle). However, the Victoria Station mob matches the Webster's New Millennium Dictionary of English definition in every respect. The only point of contention I can see is whether 2 hours is a "brief period of time" (as written in the lead -- but that definition is not sourced anyway). I support putting it back in.--Father Goose 02:34, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Supernova: The Victoria Station event, as described in the linked article to which you referred, was not a flash mob. See the first sentence in the entry, which defines a flash mob as "a large group of people who assemble suddenly in a public place, do something unusual for a brief period of time, then quickly disperse."

The Victoria Station event, as described, involved a large group of people doing something unusual. But that's not enough to be considered a flash mob. If it were, the 2005 French riots would be flash mobs. The Boston Marathon would be a flash mob. And so on. A flash mob also assembles suddenly, has a brief life, and disperses suddenly.

As for the Web site that called the Victoria Station event a flash mob, see the second sentence in the entry: "News media and commentators have often misused the term 'flash mob' to refer to nearly any form of public gathering." This is an example of this common misuse.

RE: Outside citations – you misunderstood Wikipedia's reliable sources policy. An article should be backed by reliable, published outside sources. But removal of an erroneous claim does not require a reliable outside source to officially point out the error. For example: if I write "Volkswagens are dinosaurs" in the "Dinosaur" entry, you don't need to wait for someone to publish an article saying "Volkswagens are not dinosaurs" – you can and should correct the error.

(Personally I've heard quite a bit about the Victoria Station dance, including several attempts to add it to this entry. For whatever it's worth, I wish I'd been part of the event and I applaud you if you were involved. Nothing against the event or its organizers. It's just that, as with any term, casually stretching the definition of "flash mob" will destroy its meaning and value.) Cheesebikini 02:38, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

It took me a while to realize which criterion it didn't meet: no dispersal plan.--Father Goose 07:49, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for adding that. I moved the extra information about why it could not have been a flash mob to the silent disco article. Unless we plan to expand all the other points like why exactly a political protest or a promotional appearance can't be a flash mob, I think it would be strange to try and explain one. Having the interwiki to silent disco in there so people can look up and compare the differences between the two should be enough. Mkdw^talk 10:28, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you on a formatting level but that entry is different from the others in that it's very nearly a flash mob. I think I'll re-add the explanation as a footnote.--17:34, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Assessment

I expect this article will never achieve a high class rating primarily due to the fact that its impossible to satisfy certain requirements. A Flash Mob is a trend in popular culture that relies on secrecy and anonymous participation. As such, third party sources reporting on Flash Mobs will never be able to make an accurate account of the events. More over, the concept relies on avoiding prestigious and notable third parties in its organzation and execution, making it even more difficult to report on. Its evident that numbers greatly vary from source to source in reports about these mobs and its questionable if they even true Flash Mobs. In many cases, unusual political demonstrations are incorrectly labelled by popular media as Flash Mobs. With out proper citations or a true knowledge surrounding flash mobs, a very limited number of them can be written about, and even fewer with enough information. Mkdw^talk 03:03, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

You built this argument on an erroneous foundation; flash mobs do not rely on secrecy or anonymity. Cheesebikini (talk) 01:40, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

That's a fairly strongly worded comment, and ultimately incorrect one, from someone who claims to know much about flash mobs. If you have read any of the publications of Bill Wasik, the original concept creator, and his comments regarding flash mobs you would know otherwise. Of course flash mobs have been done successfully with out having done so and can be done, but the accuracy of much of the information regarding flash mobs tend to be grossly inaccurate. Take a look at the most recent coordinated flash mobs that took place, the world wide pillow fight flash mob that took place in over 21 cities world wide and could clearly be the largest and most organized flash mob yet. However, notable sources such as the National Post, BBC, CBC, CNN, and other news outlets had greatly varying information. Some sources said they were political protests, other said it was arranged on facebook and others said it was arranged by universities. The numbers of the participating cities varied and others did not mention the word flash mob. So even if you cite from notable sources the accuracy of the article will be under question. That is not due to bad reporting or intentionally being misled. It's because there is no single or official representative, spokesperson, or organizing body for each event. No press conferences with the media to give the official details about the number of people attending, how many people have come, who's registered, what are the rumours and what are the facts, and the motivation and entire process regarding from start to finish of the event. Usually media sources grab someone who's participating who cannot answer all these questions. I'm not criticizing flash mobs in any way, just pointing out a known fact about reporting and citing when it comes to this particular article. Mkdw^talk 06:04, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

As for my "strongly worded" comment – in being concise (perhaps blunt?) I didn't intend to hurt your feelings. My aim was efficiency in stating the facts. These events did not rely upon secrecy and anonymity. (Of course I read Wasik's magazine piece, and during and after the first flash mob craze I had e-mail discussions with Wasik and I met with him face to face to discuss flash mobs.) You're right that this is a difficult phenomenon to report on and to meaningfully record for posterity. And yes, anonymous participation and avoidance of "mainstream" media people have accompanied many of these events, and that's a core component of the challenge. But these events didn't rely upon secrecy, they weren't completely opaque and it's possible to report on them meaningfully. (Events much more enshrouded in secrecy have been covered effectively. Cf North Korea or Tibet or Scientology. If it's possible to report on events and situations wherein witnesses are threatened with death if they bring the facts to light, it's definitely possible to report on flash mobs.) There's a big difference here between impossible and challenging. It's a challenging subject, but I think this particular challenge is more suited to Wikipedia and similar projects than it is to most traditional industrial-era media organizations. Cheesebikini (talk) 22:33, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Incorrect References/Statistics

This article says the biggest flash mob was 3,500 people but another article states 4,000 people. The thread in qustion is the Silent Disco thread. Venemous-Fatal1ty 19:02, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

The thing about the Victoria Station silent disco was that there was no "quick dispersal" (it lasted for hours), which makes it not a flash mob by the definition we're using here. A seemingly minor distinction, but it makes it more of a gathering than a prank.--Father Goose 19:58, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Examples

This article could use some more examples. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.97.201.93 (talk) 19:22, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Sure could. Got any?--Father Goose (talk) 04:41, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Precursers section

"Flash mobs may bear certain superficial similarities to political demonstrations, although flash mobs were originally intended to be specifically apolitical, and generally remain so, concentrating more on activities expressed as a form of performance art."

^ This sentence seems to be cumbersome grammatically, in my opinion. Thoughts? Red dwarf (talk) 22:42, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree the sentence lacks a smooth flow and does not seem clear in a first read. Perhaps breaking the sentence up into two statements. One stating that flash mobs share a lot of similarities to creatively planned political protests and the other to detail the fact that flash mobs are more a form of performance art than politically motivated?Mkdw^talk 07:58, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

"Flash mobs began as a form of performance art. While they began as an apolitical act, they may share superficial similarities to political demonstrations. " I changed it to this. Are these sentences better? (The two examples of alliteration were unintentinal.) Red dwarf (talk) 19:33, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I almost feel like tossing the whole "precursors" section as speculation. I'm not sure what it says is especially correct or useful.--Father Goose (talk) 04:09, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. Upon reflection, it looks like filler, in addition to what Father Goose outlined. Other thoughts? Red dwarf (talk) 01:32, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

Notable instances of flash mobs

This section is rather scant - it's one sentence long. Any way of expanding it, whether it be a brief overview of the article on the flash mobs in Bejing, or it is a discussion of other notable flash mobs, or something? Red dwarf (talk) 21:22, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

There are citation and/or definition issues. There are tons of notable events being called "flash mobs" by the press which are more accurately smart mobs. At some point, we're going to have to accept that flash mob has become synonymous with smart mob, and probably merge the two articles.

As for notable "true" flash mobs... there aren't that many. Tipping the press off to a flash mob event tends to screw it up, so they don't get a lot of coverage. The silent disco ones got in the news, but at least one editor of this page feels they weren't true flash mobs.--Father Goose (talk) 01:08, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

As there is some difficulty with defining what "true" flash mobs are, would it be best to delete this section altogether? We could integrate the "Notable Instances" into the introduction, or somewhere else fitting. Furthermore, we can note the difficulty of defining flash mobs, especially in relation to smart mobs. Just a couple suggestions... Red dwarf (talk) 23:07, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't think it really has to do with the wording. We should simply implement a notability guideline that we can all agree upon. Wikipedia has many similar policies such as WP:BIO and WP:BAND. We should make our own for this article. Perhaps write it up at Flash mob/Guidelines. We may be able to come to a common consensus in regards to a number of issues such as what qualifies as a flash mob. Mkdw^talk 01:00, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

See WP:N - the policies you list are specific versions of WP:N, which clearly states: "These notability guidelines only pertain to the encyclopedic suitability of topics for articles but do not directly limit the content of articles." Whilst editors on some "List" articles do choose to implement some criteria for inclusion, this is to reduce spam, or trim down a list that would otherwise be huge. In this instance, simply requiring a reliable source (i.e., meeting WP:V) would get rid of any potential spam of people trying to advertise a flash mob. And at only two currently listed, there is hardly a problem of needing to trim down the list. Mdwh (talk) 03:30, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Geocaching Flash Mod reference

Document for geocaching flash mob event III lists a geocaching flash mod for the world wide flash mod III May 10th, 2008 1700 GMT, 1300 EDT

bookmark list of Geocaching flash mod events--JBadger169 (talk) 10:07, 13 April 2008 (UTC)--JBadger169 (talk) 10:11, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Silent Discos

Cheesebikini insists that the silent discos/silent raves are not flash mobs, but I am not convinced that they are not. We have discussed this in the past, inconclusively. What does everyone else think?--Father Goose (talk) 06:12, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't see how Silent Discos are not flash mobs? Every silent disco I've been to was planned via text messaging, we all showed up at the specific time, danced and listened to our music for 4 or 5 songs and then dispersed. So, how is that not a flash mob? The only difference I see is that we had ear phones and music. Mkdw^talk 01:02, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Every definition of the word "flash" involves suddenness, extremely short duration. The "flash mob" test: if the group (1) assembles very quickly, (2) does its unusual thing very quickly, and (3) disperses very quickly, then it's a flash mob. If it doesn't, "flash mob" doesn't describe it. (Think: a flash of lightning or a flash flood.) The reasons I've always given for the silent discos not being considered flash mobs are that (2) and (3) don't apply. Flash mobs included explicit instructions for participants to disperse quickly at an agreed-upon moment, hence the "flash." Pillow fights, silent discos, etc. did not. I know from participating in many pillow fights and a silent disco that they were wonderful things, but they weren't quick or sudden and weren't flash mobs. Cheesebikini (talk) 19:07, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

However, by excluding anything that does not match the "original" definition of flash mob, our usage is out of sync with how the rest of the world uses the term (i.e., as a synonym for any smart mob).

The best possible article on the subject would note the distinction between the original definition and the broader one which has effectively replaced it, and give prominent examples of each. Wikipedia's articles have to conform to how the world regards a subject; you can't use this article to try to make the world conform to your definition, even if it was the "originally correct" one.--Father Goose (talk) 19:44, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Cheesebikini did not move the notable flash mob section to the appropriate article (if any) and instead wiped the information. I have restored the information to the article in the mood of encyclopedic building than deleting interesting and correct information. I would like to see that section remain until consensus is reached. The major flaw in Cheesebikini's argument is that 'brief' cannot be defined by a set time. Brief can be a very relative term. Unless the definition states less than 15minutes, than most pillow fights or silent discos qualify. I've seen the word brief to describe a 2 year war. Mkdw^talk 01:59, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Harry Potter

Does the Harry Potter launch night raid qualify? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.30.169.162 (talk) 16:27, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Not if it didn't receive any press coverage, and maybe not even then; I don't know the details.--22:18, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Notable flash mobs

What is the criterion for inclusion on this list?

• As I stated, WP:N and WP:ADVERT do not apply here.
• "this article is not a list of all events" - no one is claiming this is. In fact, there are only two events listed here, hardly "all" events!

The article has reliable notable 3rd party sources. I'm not sure what the problem is. Also, without this, the "mobs" list is in fact only a single entry. If the consensus is that people are opposed to including any other examples, then I suggest it would be better to do away with the section altogether, possibly integrating the pillow fight into the rest of the article.

I note that Mkdw has an objection to things that are "nothing more than" news stories. But it's hard to see how any individual flash mobs would ever be more than news stories? In fact, even the pillow fight is nothing more than a news story, so this should be removed also.

So let's either agree on the requirements for inclusion on this list - or scrap the section if the consensus is against "news stories". Mdwh (talk) 03:22, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

First off, the additions you wish to keep are not even remotely related to the subject of this article making them exempt from the notability of the article topic and thus its own entity with in this article. For that reason alone it should be removed on site -- and it has. You will be in violation of WP:3RR for re-adding non-notable and off-topic content after it has been removed more than 3 times prior if you persist. The event by TMobile, was produced, paid for, and executed as a public outdoor event. TMobile paid for a permit and a rental fee for the public space much like one would do for an outdoor concert. The actors were under contract by British Equity well in advance, rehearsed with a choreographer, showed up at their 'show call time' and performed the event for an audience. TMobile simply chose not to advertise their event to the public. I strongly suggest you even read what this article is about. If you wish to create an article about small media events or outdoor events produced by corporations that do not fit the mold of standard advertising, you are free to try, though I highly expect it will be deleted on site.

As for the World Wide Pillow Fight, why don't you just read the article and Wikipedia policy and figure out why it fits? I really don't think I can explain it any better than how it's described in that short paragraph. It's the world's largest flash mob. It's a world record holder. Over 250 news medias covered the event and reported on flash mobs as a result, thus suggestion that the world wide pillow fight largely brought flash mobs in to the mainstream awareness. It's an annual event and ongoing event. It contributes to the encyclopedic article as a prime example of a flash mob and has been used to as an example by other sources than Wikipedia. etc. etc. The article is not about an event, rather its using a notable event to illustrate and explain more clearly the subject of flash mobs. You will find that news events are used greatly to support subjects in every encyclopedia since the first one. Take a peak at the World Encyclopedia at any random page. The volume 'W'(ar) will have some prime examples. Mkdw^talk 06:25, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I support the removal of the TMobile example as written, as it patently reads like a TMobile press release. I lament that the "notable mobs" section has been whittled down to nothing, though; a much-abbreviated mention of the TMobile mob could be reasonably included in a balanced sampling of mobs. The current sampling (a single event) is hopelessly imbalanced, and adding a promotional blurb to it is even more imbalanced.--Father Goose (talk) 08:22, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

I strongly support the removal of the TMobile event. One would obviously note its an advertising stunt and not a flash mob. Youre darn right the notable section will become nothing if you remove it... have some common sense. Simply add good examples of flash mobs. Done. 99.241.42.118 (talk) 23:21, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Either the article's most active maintainers must agree on a common standard of what are "good examples", or the examples will get deleted again by said maintainers. In its most recent state, it had been maintained down to only a single event deemed as notable, making the section worthless.

On the other hand, my "scorched earth" act seems to have stirred a new editor (you) into improving the situation... for now. So thank you for your efforts regardless of how it turns out.--Father Goose (talk) 08:15, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

I believe 99.241.42.118 is on the right track. I will work with fellow editors on expanding the section of notable flash mobs as long as they remain consistent with Wikipedia's policies of notability (as I foresee we'd have many problems of spam and the inclusion of non-notable local events). While notability deals with article topics, I think it would be wise to adopt them as a convention for this article when it comes to content, and alternatively use examples that only further the explanation of flash mobs. Examples that clearly show the workings of a flash mob and would separate those mobs from other mainstream events such as media events, concerts, political protests, and demonstrations. Mkdw^talk 16:03, 25 January 2009 (UTC)

If we go by WP:N, any event which received coverage in more than one press outlet would qualify, regardless of its size or other attributes. That might be a workable standard. But one problem we will have to face sooner or later is the tendency of the press to call any smart mob a flash mob. We address that in the "Use of the term" section, but it will cause continuing difficulties in our "notable mobs" section, because who are we to tell the press that a flash mob is not in fact a flash mob?

Despite that, I think I do favor a separation between our flash mob and smart mob articles. But I'd like better coordination between the two; if people add a smart mob examples to this article (like, say, the geocaching stuff), I'd like to see it transferred to smart mob instead of deleted outright. And I'd like to see more navigational links to that article, making it clear that we keep the "whimsical" flashmob content here and the "smartmob" flashmob content there.--Father Goose (talk) 03:34, 26 January 2009 (UTC)

Merge Pillow fight flash mob

The Pillow fight flash mob article is unreferenced and reads like a personal view. I can't see that the concept of the pillow fight flash mob is notable enough to warrant its own article, all the content can be made encyclopedic and merged here. Fences and windows (talk) 01:17, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

They were originally one big article that included information about silent discos, pillow fight flash mobs, flash mob bang, etc. etc. The only problem was that by the time all those side articles were compiled the article was far too big so these smaller articles were made. Whether this was a wise choice isn't clear, but because this article is constantly plagued by people advertising their local flash mobs, the flash mob article has remained fairly clean of all and any material slightly off its direct topic. Mkdw^talk 09:58, 29 March 2009 (UTC)

In Popular Culture?

The season premiere of Weeds had a flash mob featured in it (maybe 3 minutes long). Surely there are more uses in popular culture. Should an In Popular Culture section be started? GRHooked (talk) 02:30, 9 June 2009 (UTC)