Talk:Wilhelm Canaris

Editing & sources

I fixed up some grammar, but it was difficult to edit because this page needs a LOT more cited sources. It's hard to edit and improve the style and structure if the actual events are unclear.

Similarly a lot of this reads too well (although with imperfect grammar) and has too much detail, as if it is a translation of a foreign book or article. If so, the source should be cited.

I agree with the unattributed comments below: Canaris is fascinating and his story deserves a better article.

Troy88 08:04, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

I think this entry needs a lot more work: 1) The quality of writing needs improving 2) There are too many claims made without citing sources or references

Canaris is a fascinating figure & this entry doesn't do him justice!

The "Family" section is repeting the same info at "Early life and WWI" section! Please try to fix it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.196.207.173 (talk) 15:40, 1 February 2009 (UTC)

Rosa Luxemburg

Was this man the officer with the same name involved in Rosa murder? 201.51.44.148 00:16, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

He was not involved with the murder. He was a member of the courts martial of the people accussed of the murder. See http://www.dhm.de/lemo/html/biografien/CanarisWilhelm/ TinyMark 05:31, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't think you can use such certain language to describe Canaris' involvement with assassination plans - are these historical facts? There seems to be much more ambiguity here than the entry indicates. --Krupo 07:03, 1 May 2004 (UTC)

Sorry, Canaris was involved in several bad "plans" to both his country and his neck. 201.51.70.168 01:09, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Canaris was executed by slow strangulation

I thought Canaris was hanged? Is supposed to imply that the hanging wasn't very well, uhm, executed? Fornadan (t) 14:45, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

Trying not to get into the gruesome details, yes an efficient hanging is an acquired art form. The distance the body drops should be far enough so that the rope instantly breaks the victim's neck and not too far that the head is severed. If the body does not fall far enough then the victim dies slowly by strangulation. The Nazis deliberately preferred the latter method; often using piano wire, the victim was allowed to fall just a few inches or was hoisted-up off the ground by the neck, resulting in a very slow, painful and barbaric death. I don't know if there is any evidence of this method being used on Canaris but other members of the conspiracy to assassinate Hitler were strung up with piano wire on meat hooks with the event being filmed for Hitler's viewing pleasure by all accounts. --Psywar 06:42, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

"hanging" can either be by dropping the victim with the knot under one ear - thus breaking the neck due to lateral forces (most 'modern' hangings are done this way) - or by placing the rope around the neck of the victim and dragging them upwards - as done in lynchings - death is caused by slow, painful strangulation. I have heard that they were 'half-hung' with piano wire and filmed, for the Fuher's enjoyment. Is this true? I can't find any reliable sorces that can confirm this.

This page is terrible.

Male strippers?

Why has Canaris been put under the category of "Male Strippers"?

Is there something we don't know about him? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.25.82.46 (talk) 00:32, 8 March 2007 (UTC).

The IP above 203.25.82.46 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) placed the category of 'Male Strippers into the article. I have removed the vandalism and placed a warning on their userpage. Cynrin 01:02, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

SMS Dresden

"While preparing to surrender in Camberland Bay, the Dresden was attacked and finally sunk by the British in a largely disputed act withstanding the Geneva Convention."

The Dresden was scuttled by her crew, not sunk by the British. And who says this is a "largely disputed act withstanding the Geneva Convention"? And that the Germans were preparing to surrender? Weasel Words and needs citations. Benea 21:11, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Come to think of it, I'm going to take most of that out. Dresden had been in the bay for 6 days, was flying her war ensign to the end, and was very unlikely to surrender. As in fact happened, they would probably have scuttled her and gone into internment with the Chilean authorities. There's a distinct difference between flying the white flag (requesting a truce) and striking her colours (surrendering). Dresden wasn't in a neutral harbour, she was anchored in a bay off a neutral island. If she had put into a neutral harbour, she would have been interned, that is to say the neutral country would have taken the ship over to prevent it being used as an enemy warship in the future, thus violating their neutrality. She was a German warship flying German colours. If anyone was being illegal, it was the Dresden, violating neutral territorial waters. I can't find any evidence of a dispute due to the Geneva convention. Benea 21:34, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

Canaris Photograph

The Canaris photograph is printed incorrectly. The ribbon bar on his uniform should be on the left side of his uniform, not the right as seen in the photo. ```` —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vlupiano (talk • contribs) 18:08, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Wilhelm Canaris in popular culture - The Eye of the Needle

Canaris is mentioned multiple times in retrospective and as the handler of abwehr agent "Die Nadel"s in Ken Follet's fiction novel, The Eye of the Needle. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.31.184.166 (talk) 20:15, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Righteous among the Nations ???

Canaris may by a Righteous among the Nations http://derstandard.at/fs/1246543875069/Ultraorthodoxe-fordern-Ehrung-des-deutschen-Admirals-Canaris —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.216.89.205 (talk) 09:01, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Dissident?

The article creates an impression that the head on Nazi Germany's military intelligence performed primarily anti-German activity during WWII. This contradicts to the fact that Abwehr was one of the most efficient intelligences during WWII. It is quite necessary to tell more about Canaris' primary activity.--Paul Siebert (talk) 15:53, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

He was not anti-German but exactly the opposite!! He was a German patriot as well as he was a convinced human rights activist. For both reasons he could only fight for a better and human Germany - for such a Germany, he liked. He saw, that Hitler's victories bolstered the regime more and more and wished a situation that made it possible to sweep the regime away. He also saw the evil of Stalinism. I think, he wished both totalitarian inhuman regimes to hell.

P.S.: No light without shadow. Canaris anticommunism in the time after WW1 was often a source of controversal discussions and also on this discussion page. (s. chapter 'Rosa Luxemburg' above.)

--Henrig (talk) 15:55, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, obviously, I meant "Anti-Nazi". With regards to his wishes, they are irrelevant in that case. He was a leader of German intelligence, and, obviously, it was impossible for such a high rank person to perform only dissident activity. The article, however, tells almost nothing about successful Abwehr operations inspired or directed by Canaris. In other words, it tells almost nothing about Canaris' primary activity. This is a critical omission, in my opinion.--Paul Siebert (talk) 17:35, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Canaris May Have Been Part Greek After All

Some historians believe that Wilhelm Canaris was not mistaken about his relationship with the Greek Admiral (who died only 10 years before Wilhelm was born), and that this 'official' family history was politically motivated, due to Nazi Germany's alliance with Fascist Italy and its hostility with Greece, which coincides suspiciously with the time of the Greco-Italian War of 1940-1941. This should be worked into the article. Otherwise we my be enabling Nazi lies to endure.--Nikoz78 (talk) 15:42, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

What is needed is a WP:RELY source. This has not been available. Either family could dig up their relative and do a DNA and solve it once and for all. Neither family has and presumably doesn't beleive this. As far as we can determine this was just idle rumor, based on a young person's speculation. No facts from either family suggest this relationship. Student7 (talk) 14:38, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Canaris suggested the star of David as early as 1935

Why isn't this mentioned in the article? "...Admiral Wilhelm Canaris provides an example as he “had grown up in the atmosphere of “moderate” anti-Semitism prevailing in the Ruhr middle class and in the Navy believed in the existence of a “Jewish problem”” and would “suggest during 1935-1936 that German Jews should be identified by a Star of David as special category citizens….” http://padresteve.wordpress.com/2009/09/14/the-ideological-war-how-hitlers-racial-theories-influenced-german-operations-in-poland-and-russia/ --41.19.207.84 (talk) 17:13, 24 November 2009 (UTC)