Talk:Allah

Allah is not used by arab christians/jews

Allah is not used by arab christians/jews until the persecution from Islam started.Elohi was what God Trinity was called.We know that Christians and Jews live in fear and as Dhimmis in Arab World paying religion tax(Jizyah).

Allah is the Pagan moon God whose worshippers called it so.islam also worships the same moon god allah. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.93.32.185 (talk) 21:24, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Allah was the name the Muslims have been using every since Islam began. The Moon Cult theory has been disapproved many times. It was likely made up by a person with a racist case of Islamophobia and not found from delicate research. 86.164.95.30 (talk) 20:23, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Islam is not a race, it is a religion. 76.10.173.92 (talk) 20:18, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps it would be helpful to explain what the crescent symbol means in the context of Islam. My sources on ancient symbols and glyphs point to the crescent as having to do with the moon, silver, and deities associated with the two. It is an ancient symbol thousands of years older than Islam. Given that, I think I can state with certainty the following:

• The average person in Muhammad's time living in Arabia would have been familiar with the symbols associated with the commonly-known deities of Arabia.
• At least one of these deities was strongly associated with the moon and was symbolized with a crescent.

It is therefore very curious that a deity not particularly linked with the moon would be associated with a lunar symbol. In the Old Testament, God was often symbolized in fire as in the Burning Bush or a pillar of flames. Later on Jesus became metaphorically associated with the sun. So, why a crescent unless there was something specifically lunar about Allah? Frotz (talk) 06:28, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

The crescent was not a symbol of Islam, but of the Ottomans, a relatively recent Turkish dynasty that conquered Constantinople about 1490 AD. It became widely adopted because of the influence of the Ottomans. Early Muslims flew solid colours: the Ummayyads and their descendants solid white, the Abbasids solid black, and the Prophet's army flew green. In fact, rebellion against the Abbasids was called "putting on the white" or "flying the white", because it was the colour of the Banu Umayya. Therefore your argument is specious. Ogress _smash! 07:51, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

It's not terribly relevant who caused the symbol to be so associated. My question remains -- why was a lunar symbol adopted to represent Islam unless there was something specifically lunar about Islam or Allah? I don't think scholars and clerics would have allowed what amounted to a personal or family crest to become a symbol for an entire religion, especially when one considers the age-old disagreements between the Sunni and Shia. If such an objection was raised, there wouldn't have been any sort of agreement and the symbol would have remained secular. The fact that the symbol indeed became a symbol of Islam tells me that there was some sort of consensus. This is akin to adopting Charlemagne's monogram as the symbol of Christianity. Frotz (talk) 09:14, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

<<The fact that the symbol indeed became a symbol of Islam tells me that there was some sort of consensus>>: It doesn't matter what the so-called fact 'tells' and certainly not to 'whom', as you might very well be aware of, being an editor on WP for quite sometime now. You see, as has been re-iterated numerous times, the Crescent is not the symbol of Islam. The Crescent (& an additional Star against a green backdrop) is actually the national flag of the country of Pakistan -which, I might add, is not such a 'significant' place as far as Islamic history goes). Moreover, being as familiar with Islam, as you subtly are claiming to be with your biased and mis/under-informed arguments, I'm sure you too will agree (now, if you're not as familiar, then I'm sure you might agree after a decent amount of further research) that nowhere in the Qur'an or the Sahih Hadith (the sole two pillars from which the teachings of Islam are derived) is the Crescent mentioned as a 'symbol' of Islam. The significance of the Crescent being referred to often (not as a symbol, but as a point of reference) could be linked to (a) The Islamic Hijri (Lunar) calendar (which, I'm sure you know works on the basis of the phases of the moon :)) and (b) the fact that sighting of the Crescent at the end of the holy month of Ramadhaan calls for a celebration of sorts as it essentially announces the completion of the month (of fasting, I'm sure you know that too) and the declaration of Eid ul-Fitr on the next day. In case you've still not understood please be advised to look for strongly reliable and verifiable sources to justify your claims and deductions, since original research doesn't get much of a place on WP. 'Abd el 'Azeez (talk) 10:59, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not doing any original research here. Looking at the article for crescent, I clearly see that the symbol is associated with the moon, silver, and deities associated with either or both of those. The article further states that the crescent has long also been included in personal and national crests even before the appearance of Islam. That is the stated origin of how the crescent got associated with Islam: it was used by the Sabaeans and the Sassanian Empire of Persia. This later spread to other regions of the Islamic world. Now, logically speaking, I find it highly unlikely that any person or nation's personal crest would be accepted as a symbol for an entire religion. As I stated before, that would be akin to adopting Charlemagne's monogram as the symbol of Christianity. My question remains: why was the crescent adopted as a symbol of Islam? Frotz (talk) 16:03, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

And, if you've read my response correctly, the question doesn't stand any ground. Simply because its just an allegation or a concoction at best and not a genuine query. And yes, it IS 'original research', if not exactly your own. Besides, have you really read through the complete article about the crescent here on WP? Everything including the references, external links et. al.? Another suggestion: since there isn't really any reliable source (as in WP:RS, WP:V) backing your claim, please go try looking for one (atleast on Google,) keeping an unbiased POV; maybe that'll help you. BTW, please do realize that in order for ANYthing to be connected to the religion of Islam, it HAS to come from either a) The Qur'an, or b) The Sahih Hadith of Prophet Muhammed Peace be upon him. Anything not covered/taught by either of these, is just an innovation in religion. Besides, you seem to make mention of Christianity quite often; now it wouldn't be very kind of someone to question the veracity of the Christian cross in context with Christianity would it, though many theories are floating around: Seen Cross in Christian Art [1] [2]? "The shape of the [two-beamed cross] had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the intial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt. By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the cross of Christ." ——An Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words (London, 1962), W. E. Vine, p. 256. 'Abd el 'Azeez (talk) 10:44, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

I read through the crescent article and found but one reference to a solid connection between Islam and the crescent. That connection is not explained or quoted. I'm glad you brought up the Christian cross. There is no offense in asking questions about its origin. I'm puzzled as to why you think it offensive to do so. Anyhow, the cross is similarly ancient and association with ancient gods comes as no surprise. The critical connection with Christianity and its meaning is that it represents a horrible way to die and a death that was a blood sacrifice to atone for the sins of humanity. Thus the cross is a powerful symbol of love and self-sacrifice. All this is noted in the Christian cross article. The crescent and symbols of Islam articles offer no explanation of the connection of the crescent with Islam other than a mention in the 53rd Surah, being part of crests used by the Ottomans, the Caliphate, and the Sassanid Empire in Persia. I'm trying to figure out the intimate meaning of the crescent relative to Islam in the same sense as the cross is to Christianity. So, once again, what is that meaning? Everything I've seen here so far points to something lunar. Frotz (talk) 05:44, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

well, the answer is that the crescent symbol is nothing as "intimately" connected to Islam as the cross is to Christianity. As you have already pointed out, it was just on the flag inherited from the Sassanids, and apparently sort of stood for "imperial power". It would probably make more sense to compare the crescent as a symbol on flag in the Islamic world (inherited from the Sassanids) to the eagle in flags in the Christian world (inherited from the Romans). --dab (𒁳) 20:52, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

The OP is a blatant troll who should of been ignored. But in regards to this "Moon god" rubbish (A lie often spread by Christians, hardly ever Jews) this has been dis-proven as illogical based on Islam’s core beliefs as written in the Qur’an, tell me were in the Qur’an does it state Allah is the moon god? Tell me? I have read the Qur'an in English and Arabic, and theres nothing, not even a hint of "Moon god"-Were does it tell us to worship the moon? The only thing moon related is the Lunar calendar it uses. Muslims such as I see this "Moon god" crap as just another trick to try and deceive us, we are WARNED of this very specifically in the Qur'an. --Azhar Badr (talk) 20:12, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

To be fair, the notion that Allah is linked with a pre-Islamic Arabian lunar deity is not simply a lie pulled out of nowhere, but an ongoing discussion backed up with a lot of evidence both for and against. Frotz (talk) 18:01, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Dude, Allah is clearly coming from Al-ilah which means basically "the God" (Al=the; ilah=a god). I don't see why we shouldn't use it, or why Theos would be better, other than the fact that Greek is sacred (for Estern Christians). Arabic-speaking, Persian-speaking and Turkish-speaking Christians have allways used "Allah" for God. There is no other word for God. And I'm pretty sure that a word intended to be used for the God, albeit wrongly-viewed, is far better than the word "God" originally intended for the multitude of pagan gods in the Germanic pantheon, so give me a break. Allah = Al-ilah, it's simple, oh so simple linguistics 101 on contraction. Syriac (Aramaic)-speaking Christians have always used Alloho or Allaha. "Elohim" (Hebrew for "God") was never used by Christians as Christians didn't use Hebrew (at the time of Jesus the Jews and the first Christians spoke Aramaic). At least Allah means "THE God" clearly referring to THE only one God, which the English word "God" does not make very clear, which is pretty good practice (comparing to the original "o Theos" found in the original New Testament, written in Ancient Greek. "O Theos" = "THE God", not just "God"). And anyway, even in Greek the word "Theos" is just used as a convention, as no word can really express God, howver in Greek the words that get closest to this are "o On" (The One Who Is -- a translation of the Hebrew YHVH). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.77.239.121 (talk) 23:21, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

One little rectification, in Turkish and Persian there is also the word Hüda / Khoda, but that means basically "Lord" not specifically God. And about the Crescent and Moon. Well, besides the fact that the Crescent has been an old Turkic symbol, the Crescent AND Moon has originally been the Helardic symbol of the CHRISTIAN city of Constantinople (Istanbul). When the city was a Pagan Greek city called Byzantion its citizens were worshipping a Godess of the Moon (either Artemis or Hekate). This is why they used the Crescent as their symbol. When the Roman Empire converted to Christianity and Pagan Byzantion became Christian Constantinople, a Star was added to the flag of the city. The Star has long been a HERALDIC symbol of the Virgin Mary, basically symbolising the birth of Jesus Christ. In very many early christian icons depicting the Virgin Mary one may notice a star painted on the top. This practice has been discontinued, just as the practice of representing Jesus as a Lamb has, or the practice of drawing a fish instead of a Cross to represent Christianity. But this doesn't mean that it was a wrong practice. A fish still means "Christian", even, if it is not used anymore, just as a Cross does or a Labarum (the letters chi-ro XP, from XPICTOC - Christ). In the same way, even if it is an old heraldic symbol, the star still represents somehow the Virgin Mary and the Nativity. As for the Muslims, do they look as if they are worshipping a Moon-Goddess to you? I mean really, do they? In their language, as in mine, Allah means God. When I was a kid I asked my Priest "How do you say 'Allah' in Greek?" (Turkish is my native language). He responded "In Greek 'Allah' is said 'o Theos' ". In school I asked my teacher "How does one say 'Allah' in English?' She responded: "In English, for 'Allah', one says 'God' ". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.77.239.121 (talk) 23:35, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

Also, The Crescent and Star has nothing to do with Arabs, its not their symbol, whatever they're saying now. It has a lot to do with Greeks and Turks (from the times these people were Pagan polytheists) and it has a little to do with Persians (due to Greek and / or Turkish influence mainly, not as a Persian symbol, the Sassanian flag being Derafsh-e Kaviani -- this has an wikipedia article [3] -- and the Zoroastrian religious symbol is the Faravahar.)

About the "Abjad numeral" Paragraph

Hello, Please remove the "Abjad numerals" paragraph because it is meaningless and a weak excuse to associate the word "Allah" with the number 66 which we all know what means in the western culture.

I am pretty sure the person who added that paragraph did it as an act of vandalism.

Thank you. Kblive (talk) 22:47, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

The number 66 doesn't have any particularly interesting occult or sinister connections. You're probably thinking of the Number of the Beast, which is usually stated as being 666. In the United States, the number 66 is most commonly associated with the US Route 66 highway. That highway has very strong cultural and historical significance. Frotz (talk) 08:55, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

OK I can understand that, but that paragraph still has no useful meaning, I can't seem to find one, there is no point of keeping it in this article. Kblive (talk) 18:10, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree. The paragraph is just pointless 'Abd el 'Azeez (talk) 10:45, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

My suggestion is to move the paragraph to the Numerology article, or someplace similar.
— Ω (talk) 16:37, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

The reference is already in the abjad numerals article. I went ahead and deleted the offending section from this article. As a minor anecdote, there used to be a U.S. Route 666 until 2003, when it was renamed US Route 491. That highway acquired nicknames like "Devil's Highway" because of that and a higher-than-normal fatality rate. That led to stories that the highway was cursed. Frotz (talk) 02:37, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Regarding 66: only a superstitious person will associate particular numbers with "devil" etc. That should not be a concern in this debate.

I support removing the section because it is non-notable and random.VR _talk 17:21, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Kblive (talk) 22:06, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

I agree the "66" reference is a bit tenuous. Also agree that the paragraph itself is irrelevant to the article. Have (again) removed it from the page. Euryalus (talk) 02:23, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

Allah = God?

My understanding is that Allah means light. This might be the reason for the early Moslem disapproving the formation of any physical image. It is a plain fact that light does not have any image.

Although God is a close approximation to the meaning of Allah, it is not exact. Translating from one language to another is quite difficult. I just wanted to point this out. An example is that the word God can have plurals, and in some cases, implies plurality (such as in conventional Christian usage, or even Gk. Mythology etc.). Islam is based on worship to a "God" that is one and only - just an example. There's more to it than that. A good edit would just be to insert that it is an approximate meaning, rather than an equivalent. Thanks.

Thislastserenade (talk) 11:26, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

that's not in the word, it's in the concept. "God" can refer to all sorts of conceptions of God, including those also referred to by "Allah". Nowin Arabic, "Allah" has virtually been hijacked by the Islamic conception of God, but as this article is aware, "Allah" is naturally also used for the Christian concept(s) of God. This article is not on the Islamic concept of God, which has its own article, clearly linked in the article hatnote. "Allah = God" is simply a translation like any other. --dab (𒁳) 20:46, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

“ For Muslims, God is unique and without equal. They attempt to think and talk about God without either making Him into a thing or a projection of the human self. The Koran avoids this by constantly shifting pronouns to discourage believers from inadvertently reifying God and creating any physical image of Him.

God is known in Arabic as Allah to distinguish Him from ilah, which could refer to any of the gods once worshiped in Arabia. Just as one might say in English that the French or Germans worship God, not Dieu or Gott, so one should properly say that Muslims worship God, not Allah, which is simply the word for God (with a capital G) in the Arabic language. Giving a different name to the one God worshipped by the followers of Muhammad erroneously implies that their God is different from the one God worshipped by Jews or Christians.

”

Source PBS: God (Allah)

--119.73.0.119 (talk) 03:06, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Al (the) and Ilah (deity), as opposed to Ala (light). It's like the difference between "Theology" and "The Ology" linguistically speaking. "The Light" (a Sura from the Qur'an) is Al-Ala, for example, and Allah is just "allah" with the "Al" already in there. Peter Deer (talk) 23:13, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

RE: "One God" qualification *is* in the Syriac

The article states: "The Syriac, Latin and Greek invocations do not have the words "One God" at the end."

This is inaccurate. Consult the Syriac prayer texts (e.g., the Shhimo Ferial prayers for the week) and you'll find: "Bshem Abo w-Abro w-Ruho qadish had Aloho shareero" this is translated: "In the name of the Father and Son and Holy Spirit, One (had) True (shareero) God (Aloho)".

The article should be revised in light of this, as it mistakenly claims the monotheistic qualification in the Christian Arabic invocation was influenced by Islam --- it wasn't. The Syriac Christian invocation has this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.16.231.150 (talk) 16:23, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

Concern other the illustration

The picture on the top left hand corner is supposed to be from an artist in the 17th century, but is actually a computer generated image. What am I missing here? --Ireon (talk) 16:36, 7 November 2009 (UTC)

The Word "Allah" banned in Christian Publications in Malaysia

In Malaysia here, the word "Allah" is not allowed to be used in Christian publications to refer to God. Bibles have been seized and Christians (mainly Catholic) Newspapers have had their permit revoked by the Home Ministry. Is this something that can be mention in the article? [4] [5] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kristalyamaki (talk • contribs) 14:51, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

In Punjabi (ਅਲਹੁ) Allah is used in the Sikh holy book Guru Granth Sahib as well —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.93.30.34 (talk) 06:27, 23 November 2009 (UTC)