Talk:Allah

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Claims about YHWH[edit]

I removed "By this time [1934] Christians were also becoming accustomed to retaining the Hebrew term "YHWH" untranslated[dubious ] (it was previously translated as 'the Lord')." The articles Sacred Name Bibles, Sacred Name Movement and Angelo Traina document that the date for this is decades later.

Usage by non-Christian Arabs[edit]

According to the source indicated (Rick Brown, Who was 'Allah' before Islam? Evidence that the term 'Allah' originated with Jewish and Christian Arabs) in the lede, "Allah" originates from Christian sources, however, this is clearly not proven. Sources indicate that pagans also used the term "Allah". Therefore the statement "but has been also used by Arab Christians since pre-Islamic times" should be changed to be more inclusive of non-Christian Arabs.

"Allah was also a name used by Pagan Arabs..." [1] Xtremedood (talk) 21:47, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

An other source by Kenneth J Thomas indicates [2] " Inscriptions with Allah have been discovered in Northern and Southern Arabia from as early as the fifth century", which makes it clear that the term is far older than Christianity. Xtremedood (talk) 21:58, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

Both of these sources, are however, Christian in nature written with a clearly pro-Christian bias. A non-Christian source [3] indicates on page 34: "Despite their polytheistic traditions, Arabs before Islam were also familiar with the name Allah as the name of the Supreme Being in heaven." Xtremedood (talk) 22:27, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
All better now, we just need to focus on Christianity because the term has been used continuously unlike Pagans/etc... Makeandtoss (talk) 13:17, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
@Makeandtoss: What on earth are you referring to: "the source only mentions Christianity and Jewry for ancient use"? The pages cited for this statement focus specifically on polytheistic use (pre-Islamic Christian usage is sourced further below; not sure about Jewish usage, as the page in the Hitti citation is wrong).
On the subject of Arab vs. Arabic-speaking, I see you've changed the passage from "Encyclopedia of Christianity (2001)" quoted in the citation. Were you actually able to track down and verify the source? If so, kindly provide the publisher, so we can fix the citation. This article now is either ignoring Arabic-speaking Christians who don't identify as Arab or else it takes a bold stance on these controversies. I don't think it should do either of those things. Eperoton (talk) 14:05, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
Never mind, I just discovered that I was reading the wrong source.. Makeandtoss (talk) 14:15, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
@Makeandtoss: No problem. Which source do you mean, though? I don't mind explicitly mentioning pre-Islamic Arab Christians in the lead, but I'd like to confirm that your change to the quote from "Encyclopedia of Christianity (2001)" was based on source verification and not accidental. Thanks. Eperoton (talk) 14:23, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
It was accidental, as I didn't realize it was a quote. Anyway, I changed the quote but they specifically used "Arabic-speaking" to emphasize on Jews. Historically, almost all Arabic speaking Christians self identified as Arab. Makeandtoss (talk) 14:31, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for the change. Your last statement doesn't ring true to me, but we don't need to debate this, since I'm ok with the way this article reads now. The encyclopedias I've just checked don't make a consistent distinction between Arab and Arabic-speaking Christians in this context, and the article does mention "Arabic-speakers of all Abrahamic faiths" further below. If someone wants to make an exception for another ethnic group in the lead, it can be added to the list. Eperoton (talk) 14:59, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
What I meant was that in the past, identities were not something consistent, unlike now.. Cheers Makeandtoss (talk) 15:06, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────The previous wording gave the impression that Muslims adopted this term from Christians, which is not proven and conflicts with the actual source. I changed it to a more neutral wording. Xtremedood (talk) 20:28, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

I didn't feel that it gave that impression. But now I feel that it gives the impression that it is today only used by Muslims.. Makeandtoss (talk) 20:34, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
Usage by Arab-Christians is specifically mentioned in the lede. Implying that Muslims adopted the term from Arab Christians is not based on legitimate academic sources. I think it is undeniable that it is a term mainly used by Muslims, considering there are 1.6+ billion Muslims that use the term, whereas there are far less Arab Christians. Xtremedood (talk) 21:10, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
Yeah but the current wording implies that it is only used by Muslims now. Makeandtoss (talk) 21:33, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
I didn't think adding the phrase "including Arab Christians" was necessary, since Christianity is obviously included in "all religions", but neither do I think it had the implication Xtremedood saw there. The word has been used by Arabs since before Islam, and it has been adopted by Muslims of all languages. That shouldn't be controversial. The latest change introduces multiple problems, aside from the awkward phrasing. For one it pointedly fails to mention Arab polytheists, which is what the cited source talks about. In the next sentence, the word "mainly" is dismissive towards usage by other groups, and the resuscitated citation of Merriam Webster in inappropriate since it describes usage of words in English and the lead talks about usage across different languages. Eperoton (talk) 21:51, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
Since Muslims are the main group using this term it should be included in the lede. All Muslims refer to God as Allah, whereas the only Christians that refer to God as Allah are Arab-Christians. Adding Arab-Hanifs and Arab-Pagans may also be done or we can remove the whole sentence altogether. Xtremedood (talk) 23:13, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
It occurs to me that the lead is not doing its job in reflecting the content of the article. The particular prominence of Muslim usage can be indicated by adding "used by Muslims worldwide" to the first sentence, and then the rest of the lead should briefly summarize the existing sections. Of these, the section on Judaism doesn't actually seem to contain any material relevant to the subject. In general, the article seems to be in need of reorganization. Eperoton (talk) 03:46, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

Square script[edit]

Biblical Aramaic is not written in Syriac script but square script. Therefore, it is not ܐܠܗܐ but אֱלָהָא (and אֱלָהּ in absolute state). Hebrew אלהים with vowel signs is אֱלֹהִים. The singular form with vowel signs would be אֱלֹהַּ or אֱלוֹהַּ, both can be found in the Bible. --132.187.85.182 (talk) 14:43, 13 April 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 September 2016[edit]

2A02:C7F:DE13:B700:68EF:9C49:484F:A9C2 (talk) 03:14, 4 September 2016 (UTC) URDU: Allah

Not done: This is not an edit request. Topher385 (talk) 03:27, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on 20 November 2016[edit]

This page says that Allah is the God of the Abrahamic faiths, I'm a Christian and this is untrue. Allah is not the God of Judeo-Christianity. Please don't preach on Wikipedia. State facts. Allah is the Muslim god not the Christian one. 24.57.226.31 (talk) 06:51, 20 November 2016 (UTC)

See this IP's edits at Yahweh which could be seen as preaching. Doug Weller talk 07:20, 20 November 2016 (UTC)
X mark.svg Not done Arabic speaking Christians and Jews use the word "Allah" where English speaking Jews, Christians, and even many Muslims would say "God." And don't even try the whole "Arabic pagan moon-god" argument: "God" used to refer to Odin, and Allah is etymologically related to Elohim (both deriving from the proto-Semitic *Ilu). Ian.thomson (talk) 07:25, 20 November 2016 (UTC)