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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 129.133.142.254 (talk) at 16:32, 9 February 2010. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.


Did Rahm Emanuel serve in the Israeli army? Is he a dual-citizen of Israel?

I've heard various rumors about that, which I don't believe, but I don't see any discussion here -- perhaps I missed it (sorry, if so). Did he volunteer for the Israel Defense Forces (IDF)? If so, what oath did he have to swear/sign? Is he a dual-citizen? —Preceding unsigned comment added by DBrnstn (talk • contribs) 07:53, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No, he did not serve in the IDF, and he is a US citizen. "Emanuel did not serve in the Israeli army, but was a civilian volunteer assisting the Israel Defense Forces for a short time during the 1991 Gulf War, repairing truck brakes in one of Israel's northern bases.[32][33] " Source: this page! MarkBernstein (talk) 08:07, 27 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]
It was actually discussed above in (the not well-named thread) Talk:Rahm Emanuel#Matzav.com. --brewcrewer (yada, yada) 05:33, 28 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

But if he did serve as a volunteer in a foreign army, even if it were Israel, then did he take an oath of allegiance to the State of Israel? If so, did he ever renounce the oath, or is he still bound by his oath of absolute allegiance to a foreign nation? (unsigned)

No, he did not serve as a volunteer in a foreign army, he did not renounce his US citizenship, nor is he bound by an oath to another government. He has, in any case, sworn an oath as a member of the US House of Representatives. Please see thorough discussion above and in the article. The recurrent stress on this issue, despite clear contrary documentation that is already present in the artlice, is walking right up to the edge of anti-Semitism, coming uncomfortably close to the claim that no Jew (or Catholic -- see the 1960 Presidential campaign) can be a loyal American citizen. MarkBernstein (talk) 06:41, 25 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Neither in this section nor in the article itself do I see a clear, simple answer to the clear, simple question: does Rahm Israel Emanuel hold Israeli citizenship? I see that an opponent of his candidacy in an old political race asserted that Emanuel did hold Israeli citizenship, but I see no statement that Emanuel actually did or does.

Does anyone know the answer? Is it verifiable? Firstorm (talk) 12:24, 11 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The answer is no. The article is quite clear on this. See Notes 33 and 34 in the article. Qqqqqq (talk) 22:06, 11 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Israeli citizenship entails, almost without exception (and certainly none that would appear to apply to Mr. Emannuel), several years of military service and regular reserve service until one reaches their 50s. Since he has not served in the IDF, he is therefore extremely unlikely to have Israeli citizenship.

What is POV problem in "Reaction to appointment" section?

If no one spells it out, tag gets removed. CarolMooreDC (talk) 19:47, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Removed unexplained tag. Entered WP:RS relevant info. CarolMooreDC (talk) 19:53, 3 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Gun blocks

Raum is now calling for the 1 million persons (about 1 in 320 americans, after foreigners are removed) who are on the no fly or S lists to be banned from owning guns. After it was revealed how inaccurate these lists are (persons such as Senator Ted Kennedy appeared on the list, luckily he knows the right people to get removed, the rest have no chance), this is very controversial. It should be mentioned, it's been getting some mainstream coverage. Terrorlistforlife (talk) 06:08, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

If there are reliable sources to back up these claims, OK, then a small mention would be entirely appropriate. In general, though, I don't think his position on guns is all that worthy yet for any detailed content overhauls in the article. Yaf (talk) 13:24, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
From a political perspective, I would say that the notability is not just in terms of gun politics in general, but also from the sense that if this is true then Emanuel is implicitly endorsing a controversial policy of the outgoing administration, the no-fly list. Assuming, as Yaf says, there is reliable sourcing for this fact, I therefore agree that it's worth mention. — Hiddekel (talk) 15:22, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
"Implictly" suggests possible OR and/or synthesis, so please provide sources that actually make the connection for evaluation. Tvoz/talk 06:01, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
For sure. But I'm simply suggesting that that's why Emanuel's position on the issue is notable at all... Not that this analysis should be made on its own in the article. That'd be both of those things plus undue weight, probably. — Hiddekel (talk) 20:25, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The son of a terrorist?

his father was a member of the Irgun, a group that blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem. was this ever brought up in the media? Statesboropow (talk) 04:50, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This has been discussed at length on this talk page, and consensus is that we mention that his father was a member of the Irgun years before Rahm's birth, and wikilink Irgun to its article without characterizing the organization here - that's what the wikilinks are for, and the article on Irgun is the proper place for exploring what kind of group it was and what it did or didn't do. This is not an article about the Irgun, or about the father - this is a biography of Rahm Emanuel's life and career. Tvoz/talk 05:59, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

i understand that and i appreciate your imput. but could you imagine the uproar in the media if he was the son of Arafat? Statesboropow (talk) 22:55, 10 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

But he's not the son of Yassir Arafat. He's the son of Benjamin M. EmanuelMarkBernstein (talk) 22:12, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Just dropping by to see if any of the newest info on Emanuel has managed to make it in the article. Evidently not. Maybe if I get a chance. But let may say that there was no real consensus to keep this out. It's just that of the three or four dozen people who have put it in, only a couple have bothered to stay around to argue the point. However, 5 or 6 of the maybe two dozen people who don't want it in stick in here and keep arguing. That's persistance not consensus.  :-) CarolMooreDC (talk) 22:54, 18 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

We have really got to cut out all the sugarcoating. Irgun was, plain and simple, a terrorist group and it is certainly appropriate to mention. While it is certainly true that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter--Irgun's fight was more to take land and to boot the native people off of it, by any means necessary--theft, murder, deception, etc. By any definition, that's more of a terrorist group than Hezbollah and Hamas combined.

When we can cut out the BS, we can start living together in a civilized fashion and actually work out our issues. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.116.19.182 (talk) 02:44, 9 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This mention of irgun is extraordinarily inappropriate. My fellow students and I each stopped reading the article at the mention of "irgun". It is not present on the pages of his brothers; it is a gross hyperbole that distracts from the content of the article; it does not seem relevant to an article about the current White House Chief of Staff . Statesboropow demands hyperbole: he is seeking for an "uproar in the media". I would urge editors to revert his changes and be skeptical of language that does not belong in an encyclopedia entry.--140.247.251.29 (talk) 23:20, 5 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

---

After several months of peace on this topic, editors are again inserting characterizations of Irgun into the text. Discusion of Irgun tactics and related issues belongs on the Irgun page, not here. Irgun is not the subject of this article. Rahm Emanuel was not affiliated with Irgun. MarkBernstein (talk) 06:19, 3 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why the low priority on categories?

Just noticed that this article is repeatedly B class and/or low priority. Chief of Staff of the greatest empire on the planet? I think we can up the rating on those categories, don't you?? CarolMooreDC (talk) 22:56, 18 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The "B-class" is a reflection of the "quality" of the article. Improving from B-class takes a lot of work, especially on a politically charged high visibility topic when you need to get consensus from a number of very divergent viewpoints.
As Emanuel relates to each project, the importance to that project will vary - Emanuel's importance to Wikiproject Illinois for example, now that he is no longer a congressperson representing the state, would be low. For the Obama project, on the other hand, his importance would likely be High. Each project group assigns the rating according to their project.
And the ratings only real use is to let editors know where they may want to spend their time: a low priority article that is at "c-class" would probably not be a place to spend much time improving if there are "High Priority" articles that are "stub-class"-- The Red Pen of Doom 23:04, 18 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for explanation. One of those issues hadn't thought that much about til looking at the categories below. :-) CarolMooreDC (talk) 04:31, 19 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Economic liberalization

Are you guys kidding me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 148.61.226.88 (talk) 16:49, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Influenced by Naomi Klein's "Shock Doctrine" ?

Are Rahm's views guided by Klein's "Shock Doctrine"?

[He once said, “Rule one: Never allow a crisis to go to waste. They are opportunities to do big things.”] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.108.179.189 (talk) 17:56, 8 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Content additions

I've made the following additions to the Rahm Emanuel article.

1. I've identified him as Jewish-American

2. I've added that he served as a volunteer in the Israeli Defense Forces.

These are both objective facts. Two users have deleted these facts and I'd like to know why. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.21.7.252 (talk) 13:36, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Because you are adding the content unsourced. Do you have a source to prove these statements of fact? If not, they can't be included. - ALLST✰R▼echo wuz here @ 13:40, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have sourced all the facts I've added to Rahm Emanuel's biography.

Please tell me why these facts should not be included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.21.7.252 (talk) 13:45, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please see WP:MOSBIO for why ethnicity(Jewish) is not included in the lead. Thank you, --Tom (talk) 13:48, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Also see WP:SOURCE and WP:REF on how to source content properly. - ALLST✰R▼echo wuz here @ 13:50, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Tom - I checked the guidelines re: ethnicity. It states the following: Ethnicity should generally not be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability. I would argue that his ethnicity is very relevant. He has very strong ties to the Jewish-American community and Israel. Also, he is very unique in that he volunteered to serve with a foreign army while the United States was at war. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.21.7.252 (talk) 13:52, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, he did not serve with a foreign army. Whether the US was, at the time, engaged in a military conflict elsewhere seems hardly relevant, as the subject was not then a member of the US armed forces. The guideline reads, "Ethnicity should generally not be emphasized in the opening unless it is relevant to the subject's notability"; the notability of the President's chief of staff is clear, and his ethnicity has nothing to do with his office. MarkBernstein (talk) 22:28, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Of course his ethnicity isn't why he is notable or that relevant. But wait, maybe this is some large Jewish conspiracy to control the world? Yeah, better add it to the lead so everybody knows what is really going on. Cheers, --Tom (talk) 16:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Updates as CoS?

I know I've seen a few issues about him with numerous WP:RS. I'm sure that a few could be added. If you need help, see a news google search of his name for 2009 here. CarolMooreDC (talk) 19:37, 14 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Emanuel frustrated Chicago peace activists who lobbied his office to reverse course on the Iraq war.[1]

Please provide a good secondary source on this, otherwise I will remove it. The current source is a dead link and goes to a blog. Viriditas (talk) 09:03, 1 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Coalition and combatitiveness

Emanuel is an influential member of the New Democrat Coalition.[citation needed] He is noted for his combative style.[1]

Neither of these points appears in the body of the article, and the lead section should only summarize the most important information. I removed the NDC claim since it is unsourced and appears nowhere in the article. I also removed the "combative style" claim, which again, does not appear in the article as an important point and is sourced to an article in Rolling Stone about how competitive he is, which holds true for any person elected to a public office. For some comparison, articles on Rush Limbaugh, Peggy Noonan, and Sarah Palin, all considered highly combative "attack dogs", are not referred to as such in their lead sections, nor anywhere in their respective articles. Viriditas (talk) 10:01, 1 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]

'duche bag' ???

Just wondering who added the 'duche bag' to the content there?????!!!! I just looked at the page and it said near the top "...Emanuel was elected duche bag chairman of the Democratic Caucus."

I don't think the person who added this edit should be allowed to edit any more wiki pages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.210.209.17 (talk) 18:01, 17 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Israel

Could someone elaborate on this man's ties to the government of Israel, which is, of course, a foreign entity? I believe his brother is active in the Mossad, and he may be as well. This is rather disturbing, considering his importance in the governmental hierarchy of the US. His authority should be disallowed if that is the case, first of all, because the Chief of Staff should have no allegiance before that to the nation which he serves. Even citizenship status should be called into question, as this man no doubt has duel citizenship with Israel and the US together. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.201.171.193 (talk) 02:31, 21 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

'All this has been discussed, and refuted, many times before. He's not a dual citizen, and many people are; it's no bar to US citizenship or office. 22:51, 21 December 2009 (UTC)' —Preceding unsigned comment added by MarkBernstein (talk • contribs)

dual citizenship?

the article states that "Moskal also charged that Emanuel had dual citizenship with Israel and had served in the Israeli Army.[35] Emanuel did not serve in the Israeli army, but was a civilian volunteer assisting the Israel Defense Forces for a short time during the 1991 Gulf War, repairing truck brakes in one of Israel's northern bases with Sar-El."

so the article addresses the idf claim, but it doesn't address the veracity of the claim that he has dual citizenship - us and israeli. are there any reliable source as to whether or not he ever attained israeli citizenship? i've heard it alleged many times, but don't know if it's true,and the article doesn't answer the question :-/

to be clear, the question isn't whether or not he has us citizenship, but whether or not he *also* has israeli citizenship. 84.138.193.138 (talk) 22:35, 27 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

See above. Ilya123 (talk) 06:43, 1 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]


retarded

rahm is retarded for attacking the liberal democrats instead of those moderate ones he is protecting. the real retards are moderate dems who won't support obama because they are really republicans with D's in front of their names

  1. ^ Green, Joshua (2005-10-20). "The Enforcer". Rolling Stone. Retrieved 208-12-17. {{cite magazine}}: Check date values in: |accessdate= (help)
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