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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Aido2002 (talk | contribs) at 18:24, 10 August 2010 (→‎Declared Dead: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Alaska Legacy

Just a thought, but I think that some sort of section on Steven's impact on Alaska should be included. He is arguably one of the most influential people in the state's history, and it would be informative to see some of his larger contributions discussed. He's essentially a folk hero in a large part of this state. Receptacle (talk) 16:04, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • You mean a "pork barrel" hero... He brought a lot of money up to AK, sure, and a lot of people liked that at the time, but I don't think "folk hero" is at all an accurate description for a career politician who was skillful at acquiring federal money for his state. Anyway, add the section if you wish, just make sure it is neutrally worded and sourced. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:07, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Actually, the sections on his personal life and "other notes" cover a lot of that territory. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:12, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't know enough about it. I was reading the article for another reason and noticed that it didn't really seem to convey a lot of the sentiment I see in Alaska. I've only been in the state for less than a year, but his mark seems pretty apparent to me. Pork or non, that's fine with me. I wasn't asking for a promo section. Just a suggestion.Receptacle (talk) 22:18, 8 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Feel free to replace personal political opinion with facts. Stevens impact on Alaska was substantial, despite Beeblebrox's opinion. It's not often major airports are named after living citizens. He significantly improved the Alaskan economy with the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act. As a result, Unalaska is the 2nd largest fishing port in the U.S. Without his work on the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act of 1971, there would be no Alyeska Pipeline (TAPS) and the North Slope oilfields would remain untapped until right of way issues were resolved, thereby making pipeline construction permissible. Moreover, Stevens was a key player in the political process that made Alaska the 48th state in the Union. When he arrived, Alaska was a Territory, a possession of the U.S. as Hawaii also was and as Puerto Rico is today. //Don K. (talk) 11:00, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

April 1, 2009 -- Verdict Set Aside, Indictment Dismissed With Prejudice

However, National Public Radio reported on April 1, 2009 that United States Attorney General Eric Holder, citing serious prosecutorial misconduct during the trial, decided to drop all charges against Stevens—an action that vacated his conviction

Can we have a non-April 1 reference for this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.77.153.96 (talk) 23:59, 5 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • See the "Motion of The United States to Set Aside The Verdict and Dismiss The Indictment With Prejudice[1]" filed 04/01/2009 by the Attorney General of the United States of America in US v Theodore F. Stevens No 08-231 (EGS) bearing the Judge's signature... it rendered the guilty verdict moot AND dismissed the indictment -- in effect, the charges should never have been filed. A copy can be found at www.c-span.org/pdf/motion_setaside_stevens.pdf //Don K. (talk) 09:59, 21 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Bridge to Nowhere

The current state of the article has nothing on the Bridge to Nowhere... AnonMoos (talk) 13:31, 12 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Death

This page is being locked because the person involved is involved in an event where information may change rapidly so it seems to be jumping the gun to list a death date.Michael Kirschner 14:39, 10 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Michaelkirschner (talk • contribs)

It's jumping the gun to list this as a death at all at this point. The reference provided is of questionable reliability. All other reports I've seen list 5 fatalities at this point and make no speculation about whether the Senator or former NASA administator Sean O'Keefe who was also on the plane survived. This section needs to be removed or toned down at least.--RadioFan (talk) 15:05, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
The administrator was correct to protect first. The information claiming death was quickly reverted. No need to make the job of cleaning up the article more difficult by allowing continued additional of speculation.--RadioFan (talk) 15:16, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Associated Press: "Former Alaska Republican Senator Ted Stevens is also believed to have been on board the plane." Skomorokh 15:33, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not a big fan of locking pages like this as preemptive measures. As we have seen before (When Michael Jackson died), an admin locked the page, but it was still being edited regularly by other admin, which completely counters the reason for the page protection in the first place.--Jojhutton (talk) 15:43, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Death rumors is one of the best reasons I can think of to lock an article. This is an encyclopedia not a news wire. Off2riorob (talk) 15:50, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Being reported on New York Times, BBC andABC News, hardly rumour any more, and certainly doesn't warrant full protection. Little Professor (talk) 15:53, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agree. Mention of the plane crash should at least be in the article. Could it be added by an admin?--Jojhutton (talk) 15:56, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Stevens is being reported by FOX NEWS CHANNEL as of 12:48pm EDT as confirmed dead in the crash, FYI.RtB 16:52, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

The NYTimes article you link to doesn't confirm the death, so why do you want to use it to reference the possible death?--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:53, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

CBS News and Associated Press confirm the death based on statement from a family friend. [2] JTRH (talk) 17:04, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Alaska News KTUU is reporting that his aide, David Dittman, only reported receiving a phone call the previous night confirming the Senator was killed; story updated close to 1300 EST. Seems a bit much to say the Senator is dead when his aide can only confirm via a phone call. A call from who? Better to wait for more verifiable evidence.--Allstargeneral (talk) 17:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Good point. I posted the above before checking other sources. NBC, ABC and CNN are reporting that his status is unknown. JTRH (talk) 17:17, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]


He is dead, look at cnn.com to confirm death.

Plane crash article

Has someone already set up an article for the plane crash, which from all early reports looks to be very notable? If so, where? Remember (talk) 15:11, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The name of the plane should be changed to de Havilland Canada DHC-3 Otter based on the other article for the Nasa administrator. Remember (talk) 15:13, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This change should be made by an administrator, until then it's been setup as a redirect. I'd also like to see it noted in here that former NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe was aboard the plan. It appears (though references are sketchy at this point) that Stevens was a guest of O'Keefe on a fishing expedition.--RadioFan (talk) 15:14, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The article can be found at 2010 de Havilland Canada DHC-3 Otter crash.

Channel 2 out of Anchorage now reporting he is dead: [1]. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:28, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Draft section on plane crash

Since the page is locked, I figured we could use this section to draft the information to include in the article as more information is released. Remember (talk) 15:18, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I moved the draft insert section to make it separate from this discussion. Remember (talk) 16:26, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It's an encyclopedia, not a titillating tabloid news source - we should wait for confirmation of facts, not confirmation of speculation. -- Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:47, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Agreed. The AP is now reporting as of 11:27 AM that it "there is no official confirmation on whether Stevens was on the plane." Unofficial reports say he was, but as long as reliable sources won't saying anything definitive about Stevens, other than "we think he was on the plane," then we shouldn't speculate either. It is not imperative that this article be updated minute by minute. I think the short mention in the article currently is sufficient.DCmacnut<> 15:49, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

"Former United States Senator Ted Stevens was one of eight people aboard a plane that crashed in southern Alaska on Monday night, a former member of Mr. Stevens’s Congressional staff said on Tuesday. " - NY Times

a link to the article on the crash would be appropriate as well.--RadioFan (talk) 15:58, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Local radio is pretty clear, [2] the plane went down, eight people on board, five dead, no confirmation about who is dead or alive. How that could be or why Stevens was flying around on GCI's plane are also mysteries. I think this is now worth mentioning in the article, as long as we make it clear that it is not yet known if Stevens is among the fatalities. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:18, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like to express my extreme disagreement with user "Boing! said Zebede"'s comment above dismissing reports about the crash as being worthy of "a titillating tabloid news source". Considering the Associated Press, CNN, Huffington Post, New York Times, and other major sources are all reporting that Stevens is believed to be on the plane, that disqualifies this from being anything associated to a "tabloid news source". Now if a UK tabloid or Perez Hilton or someone like that were the prime source, then OK. But these are serious news sources. I agree we shouldn't post speculation, I'm not arguing that, but dismissing major, reputable sources is one reason so many people look upon Wikipedia as a joke. Just my 2 cents. 68.146.81.123 (talk) 16:19, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Let's not get all hung up on that. A story like this changes from one moment to the next, and there really isn't any hard information yet. I can't understand why even his staff and family are saying they aren't positive he was on this plane, which was apparently flying some bigwigs to a private lodge owned by the same telecom company that owns the plane. It all seems very weird. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:24, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Death reports

Reports that Stevens is among the fatalities are starting to come in. [http://www.ktuu.com/global/Story.asp?s=12952729 An NBC Affiliate in Alaska is among the first to report it based on reports from "a former aide and longtime family friend"--RadioFan (talk) 16:34, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yep. I've edited through the protection and added a brief mention in the lead using that source, but I have to go to work now. Use {{editprotected}} to request any further edits, or ask User:PeterSymonds to lift the protection, or maybe reduce it to semi, once there is a fleshed out section ready to be added. Seemed kind of silly to stay mute over here while the plane crash article was confirming his death. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:37, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Ok, APRN would be a good source to watch in the coming hours. They have reported that the Air National Guard reached the scene at 8:00 am, [3] which was about fourty-five minutes ago now. This calls into question the family friend who told KTUU he was definitely dead, but hopefully this will all be sorted one way or another in another few hours. Beeblebrox (talk) 16:48, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Still no other reports confirming the death right now. I'm stalking gNews for the Wikinews story on this right now, but not much new information has come out. —fetch·comms 16:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Wall Street Journal and Reuters are reporting Steven's death now. sourced on the KTUU report. Makes you wonder if they are using Wikipedia for tips.--RadioFan (talk) 17:00, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
This is saying CBS confirmed it via a friend. KTUU is NBC, not CBS, and I'm not sure if the friend was the same guy. —fetch·comms 17:04, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Confirmed without citing a source. Not sure if this is linked to another friend or an official. —fetch·comms 17:07, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Now saying "family friend". Still no "official" confirmation. —fetch·comms 17:16, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
CBS is also reporting Stevens died in the crash.--RadioFan (talk) 17:10, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Sky News and AFP all following with the KTUU story. —fetch·comms 17:20, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Reuters saying Dittman makes new statement; death not confirmed. —fetch·comms 17:37, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Draft insert

Main article: 2010 de Havilland Canada DHC-3 Otter crash
There were news reports on August 10, 2010, that Stevens along with Sean O'Keefe may have been on aboard a de Havilland Canada DHC-3 Otter seaplane on August 9, 2010, when it crashed near Aleknagik, Alaska. There were reportedly five fatalities of the nine passagers on the plane; neither O'Keefe nor Stevens were immediately known to be among the five fatalities.[3][4] The small DeHavilland DH3T was reportedly registered to Anchorage-based GCI Communication.[113]


  1. ^ [www.c-span.org/pdf/motion_setaside_stevens.pdf]
  2. ^ http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/08/10/national/main6760220.shtml?tag=breakingnews
  3. ^ "Ex-NASA Chief Sean O'Keefe, Senator Ted Stevens in Plane Crash". KRIV, Fox Houston. august 10, 2010. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  4. ^ Hinton, Christopher (10 August 2010). "EADS North America CEO in Alaska plane crash". MarketWatch.

Categories

Please edit And take out Category:Living people and replace it with Category:2010 deaths. ~~~~

Not until it's confirmed from more than "a friend of the family".--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:02, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Please unprotect the page to semi protection

Many autoconfirmed editors here know the policies. Don't see any reason to have a nanny protection of the article.--~~~~

The edits between the semi- and full protection indicated there was a reason. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:02, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Is there still a reason, and do we auto confirmed users need nannies?--Jojhutton (talk) 17:27, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Of course. To prevent against BLP violations. If you have something to add, request it here with {{editprotected}}. I'm not sure why that is so hard. —fetch·comms 17:32, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Because edits are still being made by admins without discussion, including by yourself . Admin tools are no excuse to thwart discussion and page protection.--Jojhutton (talk) 17:51, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm adding verifiable information. If you have verifiable information, request it here, and it will be added for you. Simple as that. if it were semiprotected, people would also add in material without discussion. —fetch·comms 17:57, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps you should refamiliarize youself with WP:Full, and know that admin tools are no excuse to continue editing a fully-protected article without discussion, even if you feel that it is correct to do so. Although you are not the only admin to have doen this.--Jojhutton (talk) 18:02, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Please note the or if the change is uncontroversial part. I have noted the new info on this talk page, and it is not a controversial change (it just clarifies the "conflicting reports" part). Was there anything controversial you found with the Reuters source? I'm not even using FOX News or anything. —fetch·comms 18:05, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
How can you tell if its not controversial or not, if admins are the only ones who can edit and make changes? The idea is to propose the change first, then make the edit, not the other way around. The same thing happened last year, on a much broader scale, when Michal Jackson died. Please propse changes first, then if its not controversial, the article can be changed.--Jojhutton (talk) 18:09, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Again, I've posted it on the talk page (see above section). No one has complained yet. I'd say it's not controversial. You still haven't called my addition controversial either, so I'm leaning toward it not being controversial. I'm fully aware of what I'm doing, even if it doesn't seem like that always. —fetch·comms 18:13, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

KTUU Alaska confirms death

"ANCHORAGE, Alaska -- Dave Dittman, a former aide and longtime family friend of former Sen. Ted Stevens, says Stevens was killed in a plane crash near Dillingham Monday night. Dittman says he received a call overnight Monday that said the former senator was dead. Nine people were on board, including former NASA Chief Sean O'Keefe..."

Again, we need something better than "friend of the family".--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:19, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Its the news article that is a citation, not the news article's source. You seem to be confusing the two.--Jojhutton (talk) 17:29, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
From MSNBC: "David L. Dittman, a longtime friend and former aide to Stevens, told msnbc.com in a telephone statement Tuesday morning that he received a phone call Monday night telling him that Stevens had died, but he stressed that, contrary to multiple news reports citing him as a source, the information was not confirmed. NBC News said it had also not been able to confirm the reports." --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:32, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Original friend says not confirmed actually. —fetch·comms 17:40, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
FYI, Drudge appears to have picked up the original report from KTUU. Doesn't look like any new information, but it's getting legs. Jclemens (talk) 17:50, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Error

Not sure where to request this, but the crash happened on the 9th. Whoever sourced the article for the crash happening on the 10th clearly didn't read that the crash happened "last night." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.11.198.7 (talk) 17:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed, thanks. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:56, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Declared Dead

As of 2:20 PM, CNN is declaring the former senator to be dead. The New York Times has yet to make the same declaration. Link aido2002talk·userpage 18:24, 10 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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