Talk:Theory of relativity

Law?

Wast the theory of relativity recently proven? doesnt that make it a LAW? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.121.84.218 (talk) 02:33, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

This isn't how science works. Laws are statements of fact, theories are explanations of facts.Triune (talk) 17:14, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

But the theory of relativity or better law of relativity is proven! So it has to be a law.--PaBraun (talk) 13:44, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Gravity was proven by newton, until einstein proved otherwise. we generally leave theories as theories.Seeasea (talk) 17:58, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

If relativity is made scientific law this would supersede Newton's laws ( making them Newton's rules? ) maybe physicists are not ready to throw uncle issac under the bus just yet. OR MAYBE relativity has not been DIRECTLY observed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.57.255.130 (talk) 03:12, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Or * M A Y B E * you could take a course in physics, actually learn something, and stop speculating. Dan ☺ 07:30, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Some people do not always agree with the initial assumptions that the theories are based on. I, for example, disagree with assumption (2),"The speed of light in a vacuum is the same for all observers, regardless of their relative motion or of the motion of the source of the light." I have a fair argument of why we might observe such a phenomenon as human observers but mistake what we witness for a new altered perspective of the electromagnetic spectrum. But if the Special Theory of Relativity is considered a certain 'fact', then those who consider it would surely have to ignore me upfront without a hearing. This doesn't mean we should keep things as mere theories. If we can find a superior grounding in reasoning that guarantees we are logically correct (ex:absolute fact: If you can read this, you can read this.)or you can induce a conclusion from samples of human reality that rely on completely enumerated premises that are themselves within the domain of the conclusion (like inducing that Natural Selection through Evolution is a fact, not merely a theory), then we should consider the theory as fact.--Scott Mayers (talk) 18:39, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Scott, this is not the place for expounding your personal opinion on subjects. WP is based on established knowledge as shown in reliable sources.Martin Hogbin (talk) 21:53, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

biography

Albert Einstein was born in Ulm, in Wurttemberg, Germany, on March 14, 1879.Einstein died onApril 18, 1955 at Princeton, New Jersey.Albert Einstein married his cousin the same year he divorced his wife, Mileva Maric. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.90.186.233 (talk) 01:59, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

History

The theory of relativity, which has revolutionized the mathematical and physical concepts of modern times, is known to have been put forward by Albert Einstein early in the 20th century. However, we find that 1100 years before him Al-Kindi, a Muslim scientist and philosopher, had laid down the foundation of this theory. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Islamuslim (talk • contribs) 10:43, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

As these are not available online can you please quote the exact wording that you believe supports your assertion. Martin Hogbin (talk) 11:14, 22 March 2010 (UTC)

time dilation

Shouldn't we talk about time dilationm? Δt/$(1-v^{2}/c^{2})$^.5— Preceding unsigned comment added by Trtt (talk • contribs)

Not here. This is just an overview. Time dilation is handled in many of the articles to which links are provided. You'll find plenty over there. DVdm (talk) 08:44, 1 May 2010 (UTC)

American invention

I cannot believe how obtuse people can be. Einstein emigrated to the USA in 1933. He invented the concept of this theory. How is it therefore wrong to call the theory an American invention? Inventions are not always tangible objects, they encompass theories, concepts and original thoughts of all kinds. If the argument is that he wasn't an American when he created it, then why not change the category to "German inventions" instead of blanking it entirely. Burpelson AFB (talk) 21:51, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

So call it a Swiss invention then, he didn't move to the USA until 20 years after his third big paper (GR).

Besides which, it's an accepted truism amongst physicists that if you claim Einstein belongs to _any_ country, he will come and haunt you.

Your series of "Elbionan invention" categorizations seem to be remarkably unsuccessful, poorly thought out and downright inaccurate, even by the standardss of this infamously divisive and unhelpful categorization. I really hope you (and everyone) stops doing it. Andy Dingley (talk) 22:07, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Wish with one hand and shit in the other, Andy. Remarkable! - Burpelson AFB (talk) 22:24, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

(ec)

Einstein created the theory long before 1933, so it cannot possible be an American invention. Shutz says that "Einstein invented relativity", so adding the category "Swiss inventions" would be appropriate for special relativity, whereas "Austrian and/or German inventions" would be appropriate for general relativity. Tricky. DVdm (talk) 22:09, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

That sounds entirely reasonable to me. Shall we add both categories "Swiss inventions" and "German inventions" to this? Or something else? Burpelson AFB (talk) 22:24, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

No, we shouldn't. Neither of those are appropriate without a source indicating that some nationality is important in the invention of relativity. Even then it's bound to be controversial, so the category should be left out. Relevant cited text can be included in the article, of course, subject to consensus. Andy Dingley is quite correct above. Burpelson AFB is running around like a headless chicken, sticking loads of unsourced, incorrect, and useless crap in this category crusade. Seriously, the assetions that dome is a Greek invention or rocket is a German invention are completely contradicted by the text of the articles. Hopefully, someone will rollback all this idiocy. Tim Shuba (talk) 22:37, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

(ec)

Centainly not "German inventions", since the very act of inventing general relativity took the better part of a decade. So perhaps the GR-bit earns the category "Swiss/Austrian/German inventions". If you ask me what we should do here, I would say, just leave it, as I find categorizing these theories as inventions, to be frank, a bit silly. But that's personal of course. Anyway, I think that a consensus will not be easily reached about this. You could try a little poll, just to sense the atmosphere. DVdm (talk) 22:42, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

I'd be right against categorizing it at all, for several reasons:

• It's Einstein. Pan-nationalist of them all.
• It's unhelpful. Does it matter?
• I don't know what "relativity" is. Are we talking SR or GR? Given that they're accepted as one person's conception, and we can't tie that person down to a single country, how can we tie two distinct concepts to a country? Wouldn't it also be just a little ridiculous to label that one person's work as somehow "belonging to" different countries?

The big significant concepts are rarely invented in one country. One instance of them appears in one place, then a better one appears elsewhere. Do we credit the concept, the first one that worked, or the one we all bought in the end? Look at television. Three different systems (Baird, Farnsworth, Blumlein) with almost nothing in common of their creative innovation except their overall name. This stuff never helps, it just starts arguments (Hungarian electrics anyone?) and it _MUST_ be cited perfectly if it's to be done at all. Andy Dingley (talk) 00:14, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

And why should they stop with national inventions? Why don't we also create "Male inventions", "Female inventions", "Morning inventions", "Afternoon inventions", "Atheist inventions", "Agnostic inventions"? Downright silly if you ask me.

Anyway, it seems moot now: See [1] and [2]. DVdm (talk) 07:57, 24 June 2010 (UTC)

Metric expansion is not a consequence of relativity

All the vacuum solutions of general relativity without a cosmological constant contradict this claim. The most famous counterexample is probably the matter-filled Gödel universe, another exact solution to the Einstein field equations. While relativity is used to model metric expansion, the expansion does not follow from relativity, but requires various cosmological assumptions and observational data. Tim Shuba (talk) 16:57, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

My 2 cents

A lot of the conclusions drawn from this theory of relativity look more like urban legends than scientific facts. Among these urban legends I count the presumed paradox posed by faster-than-light travel. Now mind you, when I am talking the speed of light I mean the value currently attached to the speed of light.

The presumed paradox posed by faster-than-light travel is much more likely to arise because of misunderstanding or a flaw within the theory and/or its scope.

There can be no formula or mathematical model that can prove that faster-than-a-certain-speed is not possible: it is so damn easy to prove there are conditions under which an object can reach faster-than-light (or whatever finite value you want). One can use such a statement as a founding (hidden) assumption to build a theory/model though.

It seems to me that there is a huge problem with how ppl relate to mathematical models and various abstract and ambiguous concepts such as energy.