User talk:Nora lives

• Archive I
• Archive II

Ímar Ua Donnabáin

A necromancer, a family founder, a castle, and an enchanted ship; that looks like it is going to be an interesting good article. I put it on my watchlist. Good luck with it.--Brianann MacAmhlaidh (talk) 09:28, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Thank you! I'll do my best! There is a source still in MS that I need, the O'Donovan pedigree by John Collins of Myross, but have no ability to access at present, wherever it actually is. Maybe our lazy and "important" character above has access to it. But until then I have enough bits to put a little into each section of the article. DinDraithou (talk) 14:58, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Steenstrup

Steenstrups writings doesn't really seem useful to your purpose here, so I'll just drop a summary instead of a full translation. "Simeon of Durham tells in Historia de gestis Regum Anglorum for the year 912: „Reingwald rex et Oter comes et Osvul Cracabam irrupérunt et vastaverunt Dunbline'" Steenstrup (S) goes on to argue against "some authors" (not named here) who have identified "Dunbline" as "Dublin", whereas S. argues it must be Dunblane in Scotland. He also mentions that "some" has tried to place Dunbline in Waterford. S. also, referring to Simeons unreliable dating in general, places this campaign at "Dunbline" to 918 - then after Ottar campaigning at Severn 918.

Probably not very useful this, if I'd known what Bugge uses Steenstrup as reference for I might have spotted the (possibly) useful part - all in all I'm not overly impressed by Prof Steenstrups presentation - I'm tagging his 19th century book with {{weasel words}} and {{no reliable sources}}... All the best, Finn Rindahl (talk) 10:39, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

I wouldn't say S. is generally useless, he was probably writing according to the academic tradition of his time and those unnamed authors he argues against may have been known to his readers at the time. It's just very hard to follow any leads from him present day. Looking at the Ottir Iarla article there are two scraps of information in Steenstrups writing that present interesting clues to stuff we should try to find other sources for - one is of course that he is mentioned in Historia Regum by Symeon-even though "912 Dunbline" may be utterly confused I seem to recall that there's been general confusion about the battle(s) of Corbridge. The second is that S. mentions that Munch (Norske Folks Historie L 691) places Ottar at Severn in 918. I'll try to check what Munch actually wrote :) Ottar of Dublin is added to my watchlist btw Finn Rindahl (talk) 16:41, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Not enough onlinetime to nest this completely, but the Severn-thingy seem to be from Anglo-Saxon chronicle 918:

"A.D. 918. This year came a great naval armament over hither

south from the Lidwiccians; (40) and two earls with it, Ohter and Rhoald. They went then west about, till they entered the mouth of the Severn; and plundered in North-Wales everywhere by the sea, where it then suited them; and took Camlac the bishop in Archenfield, and led him with them to their ships; whom King Edward afterwards released for forty pounds. After this went the army all up; and would proceed yet on plunder against Archenfield; but the men of Hertford met them, and of Glocester, and of the nighest towns; and fought with them, and put them to flight; and they slew the Earl Rhoald, and the brother of Ohter the other earl, and many of the army. And they drove them into a park; and beset them there without, until they gave them hostages, that they would depart from the realm of King Edward.

"

Those Lidwiccians are identified by Munch as "Loire- Norwegians" - whatever that is. Best regards, Finn Rindahl(talk) 17:12, 1 August 2010 (UTC)

Macroom

Hi. Wondering about this edit, was a while ago since I added that, and I dont have the Ring source to hand, but is it entirely wrong, or have I misunderstood the source on details. Thanks and hello. Ceoil (talk) 09:21, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Hello! Not your fault and not really Ring's. It was a complicated affair and the characters appear to have gotten mixed up. I only happen to know something about it because by some accident I descend from one the people involved. The conflict referred to appears to have been the battle between Máel Muad mac Brain and Brian Bóruma, in which the former was slain, in 978. Carbery appears to have gotten mentioned because Donnubán mac Cathail (my ancestor) was an ally and possible relation of Máel Muad and had two years previously delivered up to him the captured Mathgamain mac Cennétig, elder brother of Brian, whom Máel Muad had put to death. Donnubán, king of Uí Fidgenti, is mistakenly called king of Carbery (Uí Chairpre) in non contemporary sources, because he appears to have installed his children as such. He also had a battle with Brian but that was not near Macroom. In any case Máel Muad actually belonged to the Uí Eachach Muman or Eóganacht Raithlind and had come a little north to meet Brian for the battle. Confused yet? Most of it you have to read about in the Cogad Gáedel re Gallaib,[1] which I caution you is well known to be unreliable. Cheers! Oh and I must confess to making some errors in the removed passage myself last year, before I knew much about any of it. Really I was removing my own foolishness. DinDraithou (talk) 14:37, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

It is called the Battle of Belach Lechta, the story starting at the bottom of p. 103. This victory makes Brian King of Munster so it is important. For discussion in the introduction, start on p. cxxxvii, and make sure to read Todd's notes. Because there are few details offered I am suspicious Ring took some of his account from the Battle of Sulcoit a decade previous, for which see pp. 77 ff. I will see if more can be found on Belach Lechta. I am happy you messaged me because I only created Máel Muad mac Brain yesterday and this gives me some direction. He had an interesting career so you might watchlist his article. It will expand slowly but we have a fair amount on him and his family. DinDraithou (talk) 15:06, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Oh right, very clear now. I'll read up the sources offered, before deciding whether to reinstate a modified and more accuratde version of the para. One of the mac Cathails, eh? We O'Ceoils have been fighting yer kin, and woeing yer women for centuries, ye bigs girls blouses. Ceoil (talk) 16:36, 15 August 2010 (UTC)

Alright! Well fresh back from being blocked for forcing good orthography on a skeptical public I have started the Battle of Belach Lechta and plan to make myself King of Munster. But I fear for Macroom because no one is 100% certain where it all really takes place. Possibly not so quite near there. Have a look at O'Donovan's note pp. 704-5,[2] for three possible locations. DinDraithou (talk) 16:49, 23 August 2010 (UTC)

Jarl Otir

Great find! Urselius (talk) 07:26, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

There's a short wiki article on the Thorgillsson family: Mac Thorcáill. In it Hasculf is described as fleeing to Scotland after the Normans took over Dublin. I wonder if there is any history of later feuding in Scotland between the Mac Oitirs and the Thorgillssons? The disposal of Ottar in Dublin sounds like the archetypal trigger for a feud. Urselius (talk) 08:21, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

One would think. But I doubt the Scots have anything from that period. They were not the best at writing. And at that time the islands, and even parts of the mainland, were not in Scotland. Any stories would have to be Norse or possibly Welsh or even Norman I would think. I have just found this,[3] a scholarly account of the end of Norse Dublin beginning on p. 369. Following that is an account of the later history of the Norse in Ireland and your family are listed on p. 374. Gjerset's source Worsaae can be crawled through in Danish here.[4] I wish User:Finnrind would return! Ottar of Dublin's grandfather the Jarl is mentioned on p. 358 and it has to do with Magnus III of Norway. Eventually we may have enough for an article. DinDraithou (talk) 23:24, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

Google translate has not been of much help. Either Jarl Ottar was driven out by Magnus, who replaced him with another Jarl Macmanus/Magnusson, or his invasion made it possible for this new jarl to drive Ottar out. "Jarlen Ottar, der efter Magnus Barfods Tog var sat over Man, blev fordreven af Manboerne (Manverjar), som i hans Sted toge sig en anden Jarl af Navnet Macmanus (eller Magnuson). Men der udbrod nu Borgerkrig paa Öen, og da Kong Magnus Barfod paa et nyt Tog til de vestlige Öer faldt i Irland (1103)..." DinDraithou (talk) 23:50, 18 August 2010 (UTC)

"The jarl Ottar, who after Magnus Barelegs campaign had been placed over Man, was driven out by the Manx people (Manverjar), who in his place took another earl by name Macmanus (or Magnusson). But a civil war broke out on the island, and when King Magnus Barelegs on a new campaign to the western islands fell in Ireland (1103)..." Hopefully a bit more understandable than Googletrans. - the text seem to say that Ottar was installed by king Magnus, and then deposed by the islanders after Magnus' departure. Drop me a line if you need some translations fro, Danish/Norwegian - I should be around more regularly from now on. Cheers, Finn Rindahl (talk) 23:02, 19 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, Finn! Google and I surely had it wrong. Glad you have returned! DinDraithou (talk) 02:40, 20 August 2010 (UTC)

Cotter

There seems to be a certain amount of information out there, thanks for the links. Very interesting is the son of Therulfe, another Oitir/Ottar! Urselius (talk) 10:59, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

The Cotter baronets aren't very high up on my list of things to do, perhaps I can add some inline citations for the baronet section at some time. My Cotters were all (fairly devout) Catholics, so my connection with the baronet family predates the mid 1700s. I rather think that I'm a Mac Coitir Ruadh descendant rather than Buidhe. However, there must be enough for short articles on Ottar of Man and Thorfinn filius Oter now. Urselius (talk) 16:20, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the Irish Sea Zone Viking paper, looks interesting. I hope it wasn't too costly. Urselius (talk) 09:23, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Inspiration?

Hi DD, I'm trying to get back into writing mood, but it's been so long I'm not really sure where to begin. What are you up to these days - still Ottar(s)? Any suggestions for stuff that needs writing/expansion (red links or blue) most welcome.

Noticed that block incident - not Wikipedias proudest moment... But I hope you're not too angry about what happened, and especially I hope you don't bear a grudge against the Deacon - he's one of the good guys and an excellent and knowledgeable editor who helped me a lot when I first came around here at English wikipedia. Best regards, Finn Rindahl (talk) 15:47, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

He comes from a nation with an extremely limited tradition of scholarship, because unlike all their neighbors across land and sea they were uncultured, so what he flashes on his userpage I'm not impressed by. Neither university is known for Gaelic studies, or for medieval studies I'm aware of for that matter, although I'm sure they know all of what little there is to know about the illustrious Picts and their tribal body paint (surely they offer advanced degrees in it now). Then I receive an uninformed and inarticulate lecture on my talk page from this same person who not long ago blocked me without warning for what? There's nothing like a pretentious "Scot" putting on airs. Finn you can write about that. The English properly laugh at them. Sporrans and thistles. Probably even they're second hand. Everything else they know is.

I'd love to know more about the history of the Fairhair/Hardrada dynasties and Ireland. We have Magnus III of Norway and Blathmin ingen Muircheartaig and little else. There were Irish who claimed descent from Magnus, mentioned in the Book of Lecan, and supported by the existence Harald Gille.[5] Bugge covers this capably but I don't know of any Irish scholars who have been interested. DinDraithou (talk) 18:33, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Anyway so this was the Great Book of Lecan of which the parts needed are now lost. Bugge quotes Eugene O'Curry who quotes Duald Mac Firbis: "the pedigrees and wars and battles of the Danes in Ireland are to be found in the Great Book of Lecan Mac Firbis", "but of these tracts not a vestige remains in this book." Mac Firbis says that "Magnus", whom Bugge identifies with Magnus Bareleg, "and his descendants in Ireland are mentioned in the Great Book of Lecan." Or were.

Magnus became a hero in Irish legend and became a character in the Ossianic or Finn Cycle (Finn Rindahl?), with which I wish I was more familiar because the stories and poems might contain great secrets. Bugge thus concludes "Mac Firbis has known of a now lost poem or a tale on Magnus Bareleg, king of Norway. The Ossianic poems about him certainly must be based on a more ancient historic poem." And apparently there is even a surviving (Norse?) poem of Magnus' very own composition, a "love-poem on an Irish girl". You must be able to find this somewhere! For all I have discussed see Bugge's introduction. pp. V-VII.[6] DinDraithou (talk) 21:09, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Here (pp. 165-6, for which type n176, n177,[7] Bugge says "Det vældige Slag ved Clontarf i 1014 forstyrrede ikke Forholdet mellem Irer og Nordboer. Tværtimod -- efter denn Tid ophører Vikingetogene til Irland; Magnus Barfods Tog er det eneste Forsøg, som senere blev gjort fra Nordboernes Side paa at skabe sig et Vælde i Ireland. Som den sidste Viking i Ireland spiller ogsaa Magnus Barfod en større Rolle i det irske Heltesagn end nogen anden Vikingehøvding. Allerede i irske Haand-skrifter fra det 14de Aarhundred findes der Vers om ham***(Den saak. "Spraglede Bog" (Leabhar Breac), fol. 256.). Og ved Middelalderens Slutning er Magnus Barfod og hans Heltegjerninger vævet ind i Sagnkredsen om Finn og Ossian. I et irsk Haandskrift fra omkr. 1600 findes em Samling Digte og Fortællinger under Navnet "Finns Sangbog". En af Fortællingerne her skildrer Finn og hans Feniers Tog til Lochlann eller Norge, hvor de ødelægger "Magnus den stores" Rige. Deres farligste Fiende er en gammel Kvinde, som vækker Kong Magnus's Følge tillive, efterat de er faldne -- en irsk Gjengivelse af det nordiske Sagn om Hild og Haddingjekampen *(Jfr. H. Zimmer i Gøttingische gelehrte Anzeigen 1890, No. 12. Ang. de irske Digte om Magnus Barfod, jfr. ogsaa A. Bugge, Contrib. to the history of the Norsemen in Ireland, II (Videnskabsselskabets Skrifter, Kristiania 1900.)). I Digte fra det 17de Aarhundred fortælles der om Magnus, Norges Konge eller "Bergens Konge", som han ogsaa kaldes, om hans Tog til Irland og hans Kampe med Finn og Fenierne. Endnu den Dag idag mindes Magnus Barford i Irland. Paa flere Steder i Irland bruger Bønderne, naar de vil sige, at en Mand tager Søveien, isteden Udtrykket: "Han tager "Manus's Vei" (bóthar Manuis **(Manus er en senere irsk Form af Navnet Magnus.)).alt scan DinDraithou (talk) 22:20, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Alexander Bugge, Contributions to the History of the Norsemen in Ireland.[8] Simply search for Magnus in the text and you will pull up the relevant passages. Charlotte Brooke, Reliques of Irish Poetry.[9][10] DinDraithou (talk) 22:37, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Din D. - thourough as always :) I got inspired indeed - but maybe not exactly the way you intended, I'm figuring I ought to write about Alexander Bugge, Johannes Bruun, Carl Marstrander and those pioneers in modern Scandinavian insular scholarship (just noticed CM is a blue link...)

There are actually two Finns from Norway writing about medieval Ireland and Scotland - the other being no:bruker:Finn Bjørklid. That has confused a number of fellow editors;)

You seem to have understood perfectly the paragraph cited above from Bugge, but if you like a full translation just let me know. Best regards, Finn Rindahl (talk) 10:19, 29 August 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. If I run into trouble I will. And I'm glad to have done something good. Bugge deserves an article. DinDraithou (talk) 09:54, 30 August 2010 (UTC)

O'Donovan

Sorry for the delayed reply. You were asking for a coat of arms of the O'Donovans, but I am having trouble finding the colours to use for the supporters, the animals on the sides of the shield. Perhaps I missed it in the book you linked to, but do you perhaps have a source or image in colour that I could base a painting off of? [tk] XANDERLIPTAK 02:59, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

"Scottish"

Just for the record, folks, I AM PART SCOTTISH! I count the Clan Maclachlan and Clan Oliphant among my ancestors and even went through a stage where I got into the goddamned paraphernalia. DinDraithou (talk) 23:16, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

EVERYONE READ! IT'S FUN! Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#xenophobic_postings. oh my lady gaga.[11] DinDraithou (talk) 04:39, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Thank you

Page 325 it was. On the other thing, I'll send you an email. Many thanks, Angus McLellan (Talk) 10:00, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

4th Lord of the Isles

Talk:John_of_Islay,_Earl_of_Ross#Titles. DinDraithou (talk) 17:34, 5 September 2010 (UTC)

MacDonnell of the Glens

Fixed! =) Adam Cuerden ^(talk) 07:03, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

No dice with Dubhaltach

I looked under surnames and personal names, but no luck on Otir, MacCottor, MacOttar, or any variations of thereof. Sorry mate! Fergananim (talk) 22:09, 12 September 2010 (UTC)

James "Gallda" Butler request

Could I ask you to look at James "Gallda" Butler please. The article makes claims that he is the son of Catherine FitzGerald. In the sources, there is more than a hint that he was illegitimate. But i can't match him up with known FitzGerald women of the time. Or if I can, it would result in an incestuous relationship! Thanks, Laurel Lodged (talk) 13:16, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

I'm not really an expert with the Butlers or even with most of the FitzGeralds. I'd help if I could, but this is really not my area. My knowledge of these dynasties is limited to some of their star dynasts and not to the "discard" branches. Really that whole Baron Cahir branch don't look like they should have articles. Did they do anything slightly notable? DinDraithou (talk) 01:11, 21 September 2010 (UTC)

Annals of the Four Masters

I'm not about to enter a revert war with you over this, but that edit is ridiculous. The proper page to describe the use of a template is on the template's page, not the page about the book; where it is already. Link to that under See Also, if you think it's important to the subject of the article. However, I don't think you'll find even that done on any of the pages for the books listed in Category:Specific-source_templates, which do the exact same job. Beyond that, you've still left in duplicates of those references. Bazzargh (talk) 23:32, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

I don't see what your problem is, or what business you have with it. A quick look through your edit history back to 2006 shows we have nothing to talk about. I use the AFM constantly and added something I know will be helpful for beginners here. Templates come later for most. They have for me. In fact I plan to add the instructions to all the articles for annals with a cite template. This does not quite produce "duplicates".

The template itself was created by User:Cavila but I have expanded it to include all the scans. What CELT has done is excellent but now few online are aware of O'Donovan's notes because of it. Some contain information no longer available anywhere else. He was an historic topographer too. All those volumes were scanned for a reason. DinDraithou (talk) 02:48, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

If you look at the page before you reverted, you'll see I left in the formatted citation containing the links to O'Donovan's notes and your description of them; I appreciate that those are useful. What I took out was the second set of links to the notes above that, and instructions for using the template. I didn't just leave the links to CELT.

Sure, knowing how to use that template might this is a useful thing to know, but its only tangentially relevant to the subject matter of the article. The primary audience of the article is readers, not editors. Ignoring WP:NOTAMANUAL for a moment, most beginners learn how to edit by copying & editing existing content; in this case, the use of the template was still there in the source, and would be discoverable by anyone interested in re-using the citation.

As for what my business is, I'm just another editor? Bazzargh (talk) 08:10, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Bargin in here if I may. I believe Bazzargh is quite right here, the article now has a double set of links to the full scans at archive.org - which it should not - and the link to the template doeasn't really belong within the article itself. That said, I'm an editor who have used AFM and other Irish annals quite a lot, but I've only used the CELT version - so this was indeed useful info for me. I'm going to make an attempt to make a third version at AFM (probably one that you would both disagree with :), may I suggest that if you do disagree we take the rest of the discussion at talk:Annals of the Four Masters.

A different thing DD - if you want to refer to a template in the text (without actually inserting it), you can use the code {{tl|Cite AFM}} which gives {{Cite AFM}} - a reference that could be cut&paste and at the same time have an active link to the template. Best regards, Finn Rindahl (talk) 10:09, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

DD, I'd like to apologize if my tone in that first comment came across as overly strident and uncivil. I didn't mean we had a previous beef, just that we'd undone each others edits and I wanted to seek consensus rather than re-reverting the edit I disagreed with. I wrote that late at night, never a good idea, and should have gone to bed before pressing send; on re-reading its more abrupt than I intended. Sorry. Bazzargh (talk) 19:32, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

No problem! It looks like I was wrong anyway. Oh well. DinDraithou (talk) 02:06, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Croom Castle

Hello there DinDraithou, The Ireland WikiProject had a meet up in Dún Laoghaire on Sept 25th, so I asked RA (talk) to ask if anybody was from Limerick or would be heading that way and if so, to take a picture of the Castle. I’ve not heard back but will let you know when I do. Hope you're doing well. Malke 2010 (talk) 02:35, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi there Malke! Thank you! I'm doing well enough and hope that you are too. It will be nice if we can finally get a picture. I have since come across a reference or two to how the Kildares ended up with Croom and have become confused. That they were granted it a few decades after 1200 would appear to be on record but I can find no reference to the actual conquest, which may have actually been performed by the De Burghs or someone else. The O'Donovan story became increasingly incredible so the FitzGerald one probably did too. Also I'm embarrassed to say that eventually some O'Donovans even adopted the FitzGerald war cry thinking that it was originally taken from them, and some apparently still think that. After a few mentions in the 13th century the family became absolute nobodies until making a surprisingly dignified reappearance, for a minor family, at the end of Gaeldom (the rest of Ireland appear to have been unaware they still existed). So they imagine all sorts of things because they have no idea of what they were actually doing for three centuries. Who knows what really went on, or if they and the FitzGeralds ever came into contact at all. DinDraithou (talk) 18:25, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, they're all still around so at least they've been successful at reproduction. It's been hard to find information and I've not had much luck with it. I was very busy through the summer and I couldn't give it much attention. I'm working on some articles right at the moment, but when I'm done I'll get back to this one. I really do like the story. What sources are you using? Malke 2010 (talk) 22:06, 1 October 2010 (UTC)

One is the following, p. 177

• Begley, John. The Diocese of Limerick, Ancient and Medieval. Dublin: Browne & Nolan. 1906.

Begley says 1216, less than my "few decades". I may have saved the link to the other on the other computor, which is currently suffering some difficulties. Incidentally the first verifiable FitzGerald/O'Donovan contact I know of came around the time when the son and heir of Donal IV O'Donovan married a daughter of the 13th Knight of Kerry. DinDraithou (talk) 17:23, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

Here I have the other, which is only a little more specific, p. 233

• Gibson, Charles Bernard. Historical Portraits of Irish Chieftains and Anglo-Norman Knights. London: Longmans, Green, and Co. 1871.

So "by a mandatory letter of Henry III., dated the 26th of November, 1216, Maurice came into possession of Maynooth... and... the castle of Crom..." For the latter Gibson cites Cox's Carberiae Notitia, the passage I already have at Croom Castle. Neither Gibson nor Begley mention any capture of the castle. DinDraithou (talk) 22:04, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

greetings

Noticed your improvements to the Irish Settlement section of an article I put up not long ago ... I've recently come back from a long break, nice to make contact again. Regards, Notuncurious (talk) 19:29, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

As you imply, the article is (I think) a sound starting point, but not the final version, with improvements and enhancements to come. We still seem to agree that gaining knowledge is an evolutionary process, but that shouldn't stop anyone from laying out a non-final version as a framework to start from. Looks like that map showing Déisi arrival in Wales is now showing its age ... when we get to a comfortable stopping point (or if you come upon some compelling information), I'll update it. Regards, Notuncurious (talk) 22:01, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Anwyl of Tywyn

Away from the heat perhaps we can liaise here and establish what aspects of the article require further clarification, what is a reasonable conclusion to have on it and how it can be saved from unfair and unreasonable deletion. I have had years of trouble from Doug and I do not believe his involvement is neutral or constructive. I thank you for your input thus far.James Frankcom (talk) 15:36, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Well I'm not having a problem with Doug myself and am not familiar with your history. But I won't allow anything else to be deleted from the article. The drive to trash it was clearly mistaken so I stood in the way. I work with pedigrees here and there at Wikipedia myself and was able to tell there was nothing wrong with the material in the article or with how you did it.

I agree that if their pedigree is good then they still belong to the House of Aberffraw, although that is defunct (no longer functioning at all), which is the problem. Wikipedia does not get to say their pedigree might be no good when the sources say it is good, unless it can be directly connected to any real fabrications by others, which I don't see. So what we have is a probably good minor cadet male line descent from a long defunct Welsh royal family. I don't know what else there is to say unless they are actually making claims to more. Just like with the Irish nobility we have to wait for them to (re-)style themselves whatever it may be. DinDraithou (talk) 16:30, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I agree with your conclusion. I have referenced the particular sections with the original sources. I could do with your help defending this article because certain people are seeking to undermine it and ultimately remove it.James Frankcom (talk) 16:58, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

I have read your contributions and think we both share similar interests and your knowledge about Irish nobility is excellent. It would be nice to discuss. jfrankcom@btinternet.com James Frankcom (talk) 00:33, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi, thank you! That's a very nice thing to say. Your knowledge of the Welsh is probably greater than mine of the Irish. I'm actually trying to step back from the subject for a while but when I'm really into it again I'll remember you. You have the look of an excellent resource. All I think I have to offer right now that you might find interesting are these where I am a contributor or the author: FitzGerald dynasty, De Barry family, Uí Liatháin. The FitzGeralds and Barrys are proud of their maternal royal Welsh ancestry and daughters are still named Nesta by the former to this day. I have both FitzGeralds and Barrys in my distant background so I guess I have a little Welsh in me too. DinDraithou (talk) 17:36, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Irish nobility

Hi, now that Irish nobility is a disambiguation page, could you help fix the misdirected links per WP:FIXDABLINKS? WP:AWB makes the job easier, but you have to get approved to use it; Navigation popups with the popupFixDabs flag set to true is also very helpful (and doesn't require approval). Thanks, --JaGa^talk 09:33, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm really not interested in this. Sorry. DinDraithou (talk) 15:33, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Well, at least you have the guts to admit it. Cheers, --JaGa^talk 20:31, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

I'm not a technical person at all! I'm slow with certain things and have learned to just not get into them. DinDraithou (talk) 21:23, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Colmán Little and Big

I'm having a go at redoing Colmán Bec to turn two Colmáns into one. Please correct any mistakes! Would also be great if you can see how to split this up into sections. Anyway, no more delay, must get busy. Diarmait mac Cerbaill will be at Wikipedia:Featured article candidates before Imbolc, or I'm a Dutchman. (Well, I do speak Dutch, almost, so ...) Angus McLellan (Talk) 12:28, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi Angus! That's looking really nice. But I'm not the most qualified in the early Uí Néill. It's been a long time since reading Byrne and I think I didn't quite finish those chapters. I should know the history of the great Clann Cholmáin better, since they were ruined and had their legacy and accomplishments stolen by the same Déisi thieves and usurpers and falsifiers who stole Luimnech and Mumu from others. I did make a few changes to Máel Sechnaill mac Domnaill recently and would like to see his article expanded. He was the last true King of Tara. Let me tell you what I think of the unworthy character who deposed him. DinDraithou (talk) 17:36, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

If you want to work on Mael S. m D, you've probably just received an email with a link to Hudsons ODNB biography. If you haven't, give me a ping and I'll send it as an attachment. Best regards, Finn Rindahl (talk) 22:28, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

I got it. Thank you. Hudson does more respectably than Wikipedia. DinDraithou (talk) 18:04, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

I also have access to the ODNB courtesy of Glasgow libraries. Hurrah! Angus McLellan (Talk) 21:38, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Alexander Bugge

Expanded it a bit, using Claus Krags biography. It would be most welcome if you could copyedit my additions - my English is lacking at the best of times, but when I'm working with a source in Norwegian it gets worse I'm afraid. If you can help find a good "hook" this might be a possible DYK-candidate. Bets regards, Finn Rindahl (talk) 23:25, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

Mum-mum-mum-mah! Bugge is looking great! Nicely done. I plan to expand that bibliography soon and will try to think of a good "hook". Lady Gaga will inspire me since hers are so great. I see others have done the cleaning up. But your English is great and I can tell you simply got tired. Mum-mum-mum-mah! DinDraithou (talk) 17:36, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

Hello

Yeah, this has become quite a mess. Certain editors are upset that I signed my work, and several have tried to block me for a while on admin noticeboards. They went nowhere, so they have upped it up a bit and trying to permanently ban me now. It is just the English Wikipedia that takes issue with signatures so much, so I tried to make them happy by removing images. That just made them angrier. I figured that by taking away the images would end the problem, but I was wrong. Perhaps since you did it, that will help.

On a side note, I have begun the O'Conor Don arms. [talk] XANDERLIPTAK 21:17, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps you should just go ahead and have a real white wand made, just in case. I hope he doesn't start harassing you as he did me. He has been hounding me and filing an ANI for any and every little edit, all which get ignored. But now he and others are trying to make an issue out of how many failed ANIs there are, because, as he and others want to argue, the fact they filed them in such great numbers must mean there is a problem. [talk] XANDERLIPTAK 23:01, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

I wish it were that simple. Unless you can directly show some transgression, admins are not likely to do anything. Or they will simply block both because they don't care to take the time to realize what is going on. We could write up some Wikipedia reports to see about blocking him for a time, but that takes a lot of understanding of Wikipedia policy and bureaucratic know how. It's a mess and hassle. [talk] XANDERLIPTAK 02:15, 25 October 2010 (UTC)