Talk:Nation of Islam

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We may not hide beliefs of any group or religion

A major task of any encyclopedia is to explain the beliefs and teachings of religions. We are obligated to do this even if their beliefs make us uncomfortable. This is true for the NOI: One of the basic tenets of NOI teachings is that only blacks are fully human. White people are considered to be genetically and spiritually inferior to black people. They have been preaching this publicly for many years, and it simply is not honest or acceptable to deny this reality. Please do not censor this article by removing information on this point, especially since this point is already sources in three ways within the article, and more sources can readily be added.

An article can explain why its adherents accept these beliefs as true; it can explain how the adherents of this faith justify their beliefs, we can offer varying sources from the groups leaders, but we may not deny that these central teachings exist. RK

We have never said that whites aren't fully human. We say that they are not original. When you get a cd it is not the original cd but it is a copy. It still plays just as well but it just isn't held in as high a standard because you can go and create more cd off of the original. Black people are the original people so we are naturally made better equipped to handle the rough terrain of the earth better then white people. They're still human and even though scientifically the copy isn't as strong as the original we still treat the copy just like we treat the original, with justice.

OPPOSE: White people, brown people, black people regardless of who you are... are just as original as the person who precedes them. Just as you are just as original and human as your parents who preceded you or their parents who preceded them. The Nation of Islam is what it is... A black nationalist movement deadbent on the uplifting of the spirits of the black man and woman. Just as the Revolutionaries, Black Panthers and other such movements made noble efforts in. "The Nation" cannot attribute itself to "Islam" without the basic tenets of Islamic belief. Believing that there is "There is nothing worthy of worship other than Allah and that Muhammad is his messenger and last prophet." When Muslims speak of God they speak of Allah, not a man who claimed he was God or God incarnated in person. When Muslims speak of Muhammad they speak of Muhammad ibn Abdullah of 1400+ years ago who received the revelation from the Angel Jibril given orders from Allah NOT of Elijah Poole turned Elijah Muhammad after receiving enlightenment from another man who preached aggression and transgression. If the Nation of Islam was the "correct" way then why is it that the "Nation" was not the original practice of the Muslims? The obvious reason is because it is not the correct way at all. The original man was Adam. Not some race of pre-Adamites the Nation beliefs were here before Adam and Hawaa (Eve). Our Prophet Jacob is not some wild deranged scientist who wanted to "get back" at his people and came up with an elaborate scheme to develop "white" people by cancelling out the black gene... cross breeding lighter and lighter until white people became the majority and the rulers. Bogus, unintelligible rhetoric and feeble thoughts. We are not on Dr. Zhivago's Island! No man is greater than another in other than piety is the true belief of Islam. "You are not a true muslim until you want for your brother what you want him what you want for yourself" is what the true Prophet Muhammad said. "Today I have perfected your religion for you, and have completed My favor upon you, and have approved for you Islam as religion. . ." The Qur'an 3:19, ... not "Nation of Islam", not the "Lost Found Nation", and not "The Nation of Gods and Earths (5% Nation of Islam)". Our Holy book is the Holy Quran NOT the "Message to the Black Man". Our examples of correctness is in the Sunnah and Hadith's of the Prophet Muhammad not in "Muhammad Speaks". I protest against the Nation and its wicked ideologies under the guise of "Al-Islam" and all who read should do the same, learn of their lies and if you are in then remove yourself immediately. The last 3 questions in the grave are "Who is your lord, who is this man and what is your religion?" At NO TIME!!! will my answers involve W.D. Fard Muhammad, Elijah Muhammad or Nation of Islam and God Willing none of yours will either or a horrible torture will befall us all. ----VeiledOne

OPPOSE:

That is the dumbest bullshit I have ever heard...

You NOI people are so delusional. Makes good sense why your cult is so damned small like Scientology or such.

We can all look up what Farakhan has said. What your ministers have said. The racist, and crazy statements about White People being created by a mad scientist and blah blah blah. Come on.. Why do NOI people get a say in how this is written. Just as I think it is advantageous for Libertarians to not write articles about Libertarianism or Mormons to write about Mormonism. Or Jews to write about anti-semetism.

AGREE:

We didn't say Yacub was a mad scientist, he was quite sane. Lets look at it this way, if you can't get black people from white or blacks from yellow or black from brown or black from red and black was first and the rest came and black have been here for millions of years before 6,094 years ago then white people came then there had to have been a conscious decision in bringing white people to this earth right?

OPPOSE:

YOur gonna get a crappy article with lots of bias, and over time the article becomes a propoganda page with edit wars and such. Let us find fact. We should use only fact to write about something. Save the bias for criticism sections or criticism pages. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Satv365 (talk • contribs) 01:00, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

The entire notion of "the Blackman (sic) is the Original Man and whites must be inferior copies" is profoundly devoid of logic. The current population of sub-Saharan Africa is not the unchanged, direct scion of the original homo sapiens of 200,000 years ago, and in fact no one knows what the first humans looked like. Most anthropologists guess that they were something like the Bushmen of the Kalahari, who have traits of many modern "races" of man. In Northern Europe natural selection favored fair skin that was able to absorb more vitamin D from limited sunlight, it makes perfect evolutionary sense and in no way demands ancient genetic engineering as an explanation. By claiming to be "Original", the NOI is ironically suggesting what has fueled white supremacist pseudo-science for centuries, the idea that blacks are closer than whites to the lesser great apes with whom we share common ancestry, that they're somehow "less evolved" and therefore less human. 76.19.26.248 (talk) 22:28, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

"New and Improved White People!"

Zebra Murders Whitewash

The Zebra Murders were a natural result of NOI's racist pseudo-theology which dehumanizes whites. Naturally they aren't mentioned here. (And naturally no one atlks about them in San Francisco anymore.) This page is propaganda.

Could you please clarify? If you have some specific criticisms and suggestions, we are very willing to listen. Thank you for your time. RK

If you read the most thorough and credible works on the subject (see below), you will see that not only did the so-called Zebra murders flow directly from NOI theology, but that they were an NOI operation, directed from Chicago (aka New Mecca), and run out of the San Francisco mosque. The San Francisco death squad had pep rallies run by dignitaries from New Mecca after hours at the NOI-owned moving and storage where most of the killers worked, and all of them worked for NOI-owned businesses.

The apprentice Death Angels had to reach a certain quota from killing either four white children, five white women, or nine white men, in order to become full-fledge Death Angels, and receive free passage to Mecca. The practice of paying free passage to Mecca for killing “white devils” had been instituted during the early 1930s by NOI founder Wallace Fard.

The NOI even paid for the defense of the three killers who refused to confess (Larry Green, J.C.X. Simon, and Manuel Moore), but refused to pay legal fees for the one killer, Jesse Lee Cooks, who confessed to murder (the Frances Rose killing), and went so far as to disown Cooks. The NOI considers it a mortal sin to confess to any crime in the white man's courts.

To get an indication of how tightly the NOI operation was run, the case was only broken when one of the killers, Anthony Cornelius Harris, came forward, in order to collect the $35,000 reward, get police protection, and new identities for himself and his family. One day, when Harris & Family were in a motel under police guard, and Harris was in the shower, his foolish wife telephoned the wife of her minister, at the San Francisco mosque, and told her where they were holed up. In no time flat, a squad of NOI assassins (Fruit of Islam types, not the raggedy characters in the “Zebra” death squads) showed up at the motel, and Detectives Gus Coreris and John Fotinos just managed to escape with the Harris family seconds ahead of the assassins.

Had the squad managed to kill Harris, the SFPD would never have broken the San Francisco cases (or at least, the 15 official San Francisco cases; there were more killings than that in the city by the bay). As it is, the convictions of Larry Green, J.C.X. Simon, Manuel Moore and Jesse Lee Cooks “cleared” only 15 killings, and the SFPD was convinced that at least three other men were part of the SF squad alone. However, the San Francisco DA, convinced that it had too little evidence to go to trial against the other three, dropped the charges against them.

The NOI is so tightly knit in its devotion to killing whites, whom it variously teaches are “white devils,” “blue-eyed devils,” and “grafted snakes,” that no one else came forward with information.

Not only did the NOI organize the death squads (there were many more than the one that went down), but the killings went on up and down the State of California, with different squads working different areas, and according to the FBI, even (though apparently, or rather, hopefully, to a lesser degree) on the East Coast. Dick Walley, the head of the Intelligence Analysis Unit at the California Department of Justice, had a dossier of 71 black-on-white murders committed across the state that he was convinced were NOI killings (Howard). (Walley died of cancer before the trial.) Clark Howard, the author of Zebra, was convinced that the NOI had murdered “just under 270” whites across California, but never named the other 255 victims, or explained his rationale. Since the murders were through and through an NOI operation, and only a small minority of them (even using Walley’s figure, which did not count non-California NOI racial killings) were committed in San Francisco, I suggest that we dispense with calling them the “Zebra Murders,” and simply call them the NOI Murders.

Contrary to those who have claimed that the NOI was seeking with the killings to cause a race war, the NOI was prosecuting a race war. The real story of how that war was stopped is one that I’m afraid we’ll never learn.

Howard, Clark. Zebra: The true account of the 179 days of terror in San Francisco (New York: Richard Marek Publishers, 1979).

• Domestic Terrorism: The Nation of Islam and the Zebra Murders, by Nicholas Stix

70.23.199.239 02:10, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

And YEARS later no change in the article... Yep... really the way to move forward towards a better future. Encourage black hate groups to murder whites and then just pretend it doesnt happen because, hey, there is a bad history. Never mind that the people doing the killing are psychopaths and the victimes are just working schmucks picked at random. Nah... That doesnt matter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.232.35.35 (talk) 03:54, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I think there's a point to this complaint. The Zebra murders were a major historical event and the relationship between the murders and NOI is still a festering controversy that shouldn't be ignored. If there is a more authoritive source on the Zebra murders than the Clark book, I haven't been able to find it. Unfortunately, the book is a New Journalism effort, and often hides its sources and dramatizes events, thus obscuring what solid evidence existed. But it appears he did do considerable original research. I propose that we add something such as this:

There is considerable controversy over the existence or the extent of NOI involvement in the Zebra killers of 1973-'74 in San Francisco. Howard Clark's book "Zebra" cites Richard Walley of the California Department of Justice Intelligence Analysis Unit as believing that the conspiracy and the murders were more widespread than those attributed to the four convicted members of NOI and that they were NOI inspired [pp. 238,264]. He also quotes the Imam of San Quentin Prison (of World Community of Islam, which Clark says at the time of his writing, 1979, had replaced the NOI), as stating "although it will take us quite some time to erase our old image we will do just that by promoting brotherhood among all men" (14). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.118.23.156 (talk) 13:14, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Double Standards

The article is shockingly biased in favour of the NoI in that it describes the orginization as merely existing to help the "condition of black men and women". At the same time, there are multiple examples of high ranking NoI members stating that whites are unevolved, subhuman, demonic, inferior, and that white women and children need to be murdered. NoI members have been guilty of race based serial killing (DC sniper was for example, a NoI member as were many other men convicted of violent hate crimes), and yet NoI is not classified as a racist or hate group of any sort? The KKK has stated that it is not a racist or hate group, only looking out for white interests despite its violent past, yet nobody believes them. This is mirroring the NoI, yet the NoI seems to be fully pardoned, the articles introduction could even be considered praise and describing NoI as a civil rights group. Why is this? Can we please create a new introduction fitting for such a violent, hateful group closer to that of the KKK, regardless of what each one publically 'states' its 'goals' are despite all of their activities and history. And can we please learn the difference between hate groups like NoI and black activist groups that instead publically oppose racism such as the original black panther party, rather than advocate murder based on skin color the way NoI does?

Ive added that they are a racial segeregationist orginization in the intro, this is the very least that should be said in such a misleading article that paints a group who openly support genocide as a human rights resistance of some sort. If you need any justification for my claim that they are segregationist then here is one of their demands: "9. We want equal education -- but separate schools up to 16 for boys and 18 for girls on the conditions that the girls be sent to womens' colleges and universities. We want all black children educated, taught and trained by their own teacher."

—HOW IS THIS EVEN AN ISSUE??? I am a white American Muslim. I have read the Qu'ran in English and am on my way through it again. I am also taking Arabic classes, in part to learn to read this sacred text in its original Arabic form. My husband is a Sunni Muslim from the Middle East. We have regular discussions about the Qu'ran. I know for a fact that the Qu'ran NEVER states anything about black people being original and white people coming from black people. It is the LITERAL WORD OF ALLAH and it states that Allah, in his magnificent creativity, created people of all colors. Allah is the Creator, not humans. Allah made all that is on the earth and all that is in the universe. White people did not come from black people. All people were created by God. That is what the Qu'ran really says. If you don't believe this then you don't really understand a whole lot, do you? If you claim to follow Islam, maybe you should read the Qu'ran to get the facts about the creation of humans. We were not created to fight each other over who is or is not original or copied. We are all from Allah and all equally and beautifully created. Islam teaches thoroughly that Muhammad is the FINAL messenger of Allah. THERE WILL BE NO ONE ELSE. We are equal. Real muslims are peaceful and do not care about the color of skin, only the condition of heart. Instead of trying to fight about who is better or who is and is not racist, try seeking Allah. The Qu'ran is packed with scientific proof to back up all its claims. Where is the scientific proof that black people are original and white people are copied? The closer you get to the equater, the darker the inhabitants skin is. This is due to the fact that the suns rays are less blocked than in, say North America or England. The skin MUST be darker to protect the body from sun damage to the skin leading to CANCER, in this region of the world. In England, the sun is almost never out, which leads to paler skin because protection from the sun is not as vital. There you go. All this is scientifically proven, so go research it. -R Al-Tbour

You must have forgotten about genetics and how the dark genes are dominant and light genes are recessive. You can't get a dark color from a light color but you can get light colors from dark colors. The Earth was also once all connected and mostly every continent was near the equator so all would've been dark. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cool Rell (talk • contribs) 23:48, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

And except for evolution you would be correct. Unfortunately the other side of the genetic argument that people forget is the "evolving to suit your environment" part. Things like growing taller to provide more skin to sweat with, darkening of the skin to accommodate harsh sun conditions, widening of the nasal passages to allow more warm air to pass through. And every one of those has a corollary so there's no telling who came from what genetically, so drop the act. padillaH ^{(review me)}_{(help me)} 17:33, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

SPLC classification

User:JohnBlaz removed the classification of NOI as a hate group by the SPLC citing it as POV. I restored it. Other hate groups are noted as such in the lead (see KKK or New Black Panther Party and the SPLC is a widely-respected source when it comes to labeling groups as hate groups. I also added the ADL classification of NOI as racist and anti-semitic. I'm bringing this here in order to avoid an edit war and if there's a consensus that it doesn't belong, then so be it. Lordjeff06 (talk) 16:46, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

As stated in edit note, the subjective categorization by the SPLC and ADL was removed from the intro because it indeed already exists in mutiple locations in the article body which is where they appropriately belong. This issue was dealt with in the past. --JohnBlaz (talk) 20:13, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Why the refimprove tag?

Why does this have a {{refimprove}} tag at the top? Is there a doubt about the veracity or notability of NOI? Sure, if certain elements are being contended, hit them with a {{cite}} or {{fact}} tag, but the entire article has enough citations to support it, doesn't it? Padillah (talk) 15:55, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

That tag doesn't refer to the notability or veracity of the organization at all. It's basically the same things as a "fact" tag, except there is one at the top of the article instead of several scattered through the article. You will probably have to ask Yahel Guhan (talk · contribs), who added the tag in the first place, as to his/her specific reasoning, but most likely he/she saw several unsourced statements and thought they should be sourced. Natalie (talk) 16:52, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Removed outdated tags. There are refs and they are well placed.--YakbutterT (talk) 22:46, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

Introduction

"From 1978 to the present, Louis Farrakhan has been the leader of a reconstituted Nation of Islam, the original organization having been renamed and dissolved by Warith Deen Muhammad. The Nation of Islam's National Center and headquarters is located in Chicago, Illinois, and is also home to its flagship Mosque No. 2, Mosque Maryam."

...so, what "Nation of Islam" actually is? A country? A religion? A fast food chain? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wikinist (talk • contribs) 22:48, 1 July 2008 (UTC)

Ya, the intro to this article is terrible. TastyCakes (talk) 21:04, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Agreed. 66.57.187.206 (talk) 22:22, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

The intro should be near the end, at least. An editor should correct this so no edit wars will occur.--neolandes 15:53, 21 July 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neolandes (talk • contribs)

Nation of Islam Temples

Temple # 1

Location: Detroit - 11529 Linwood Ave
In June 1953, Malcolm X was named assistant minister of the Nation of Islam's Temple Number One.

Temple # 2

Location: Chicago - 7351 S. Stony Island (Mosque Maryam)
In either late 1933 or the start of 1934, Temple No 2 was founded.

Temple # 3

Location: Milwaukee, WI - 2507 N. 3rd. St.

Temple # 4

Location: Washington, DC - 1525 Ninth Street, NW
Nation of Islam Temple #4, established in the early 1940s by Elijah Muhammad, was the first place of worship for Black Muslims in Washington, DC. The Nation of Islam was founded in the early 1930s as a religious movement grounded in the teachings of the Koran and adapted to the experiences of African Americans in the United States.

Sources: Claude Andrew Clegg, An Original Man: The Life and Times of Elijah Muhammad (New York: St. Martin's University Press, 1998). Cultural Tourism DC: African American Heritage Trail

Temple # 7

Location: New York (Masjed Aqsa)
Founded in 1946. In May 1954 Malcolm X was selected to lead the Nation of Islam's Temple Number Seven in Harlem.

• http://www.mosque7.org

Temple # 11

Location: Boston
1952 - Malcolm X begins preaching for the Nation at Temple 11 in Boston

Temple # 12

Location: Philadelphia
In March 1954, Malcolm X expanded Temple Number Twelve in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

• http://muhammadstemple12.faithweb.com

By the time Elijah Muhammad died in 1975, there were 75 Temples across America. Muhammad's Temple of Islam, Information taken from the October 4, 1974 edition of Muhammad Speaks Newspaper

Temple # 28

Location: St. Louis

• http://www.muhammadmosque28.org

Temple # 55

Location: Memphis, Tennessee

• http://www.muhammadmosque55.com
• http://www.mosque55.com

Temple # 95

Location: Saint Petersburg, Florida

• http://www.muhammadmosque95.org —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.229.209.230 (talk) 00:20, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

James Baldwin

Having read 'The Fire Next Time' recently, I am displeased with the nature of the James Baldwin quote. Although Baldwin did express his recognition of the positive aspects of NOI, the essay from which the article quotes is much more critical of NOIs views, attitudes and strategies than complimentary... thus this to me is misleading, and only seems to support peoples comments about the lack of NPOV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.128.41.26 (talk) 18:24, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Jewpedia

Anyone else sick and tired of seeing articles with "Antisemitism" sections? As if that's a criteria every public figure is either a "yes" or "no" on. I wonder if we should put an anti-arab or anti-asian/etc.etc. section.

GJ Jewpedia! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.140.10.54 (talk) 22:33, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

If you can source some Anti-Arab or Anti-Asian quotes then go ahead, we can rename it to Racism or some such and group them all together, nobody is saying Wikipedia cares more about hate against Jews than hate against other groups, however if only one type of hate is sourced then the header will be named after that one type. 68.107.134.225 (talk) 04:10, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Mfm2.jpg

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Those who follow the teachings of the NOI are NOT true Muslims. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Imagine20 (talk • contribs) 02:37, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Organization

This article should really have a section on the organization and hierarchy of the NOI. I've been looking around for a source for this without much luck. I know there is an NOI constitution (and a new one under review), though I cannot find a copy online. I think the temple operate independently and kick up an administrative fee to the national organization, but again, no source. I read that there is a board of directors but finding it's membership has proved tricky. Any ideas? Links? NOI's website isn't much help.Njsamizdat (talk) 15:58, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Why is Elijah Muhammad completely missing from the opening paragraphs?

Excuse me, but it seems that the opening paragraphs are missing any mention of the most dominant force in the NOI history, namely Elijah Muhammad (born Elijah Poole). Why?! Why leave out the person who controlled (some would say molded and dominated) the NOI for more than 40 years? It seems like a ridiculous omission. Thank you.123.218.147.5 (talk) 17:29, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

"Child molester"?

In the History section of the article, W.D. Fard was referred to as a "child molester". I suspect this is vandalism, so removed it. If there's any source to this, it can be re-installed with ref. Papppfaffe (talk) 21:49, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Yakub (Nation of Islam)

Anyone knowledgeable on doctrine should help out making revisions to the Yakub (Nation of Islam) page. --YakbutterT (talk) 22:38, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

NOI is most certainly NOT Islam

From NOI.org "WE BELIEVE that Allah (God) appeared in the Person of Master W. Fard Muhammad, July, 1930; the long-awaited "Messiah" of the Christians and the "Mahdi" of the Muslims."

This statement clearly admits that the nation of Islam does not beleive in one of the fundamental beliefs of all muslims that There is nothing worthy of worship but God and that Muhammad is His last messenger. That Allah is one and has no partners.

This should be addressed in the FIRST paragraph as one of the CORE beliefs of the Nation of Islam and "mainstream muslims" do NOT even believe the Nation of Islam to be muslims. If they do then they are clearly mistaken and have not researched the ideologies of the Black Nationalist Movement group. There is no Islam without the belief that Allah is God, without partners and Muhammad ibn Abdullah is his last servant, prophet and messenger. NOT MISTER Fard Muhammad or Elijah Poole Muhammad. VeiledOne —Preceding unsigned comment added by Veiledone (talk • contribs) 19:49, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Actually, not so. I've heard some of those lectures by that Farrakhan guy, and they don't worship any man's flesh. What they worship is actually something called "the spirit of allah". When I say spirit I don't mean a ghost, but some kind "spiritual development". So just to be clear, although different, they are muslims.AwesomePeopleMakeClay (talk) 19:59, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

And also, they don't hate anyone because of their color. I know plenty of muslims on the NOI who have white friends. Even Farrakhan has white friends. So if their leader has white friends, they can't hate white peAwesomePeopleMakeClay (talk) 20:03, 9 December 2009 (UTC)ople.

OPPOSE: Awesome the nation believes that. I have heard what was said also. In 1997, for example, the Clarion-Ledger reported Farrakhan's characterization of "the white man" as the "anti-Christ." In March 2000 the Philadelphia Inquirer quoted Farrakhan saying, "White people are potential humans ... they haven't evolved yet." At other times, he has referred to whites as "vicious beasts" and "the skunks of the planet."

They also do believe in God in the flesh according to such books as How to Eat to Live and Message to the Blackman and Comer by Night, where they repeatedly state "Allah, who came in the person of Master Fard Muhammad" and that Elijah Muhammad is the messenger. So NO they are not muslims because of the basis of their shahadah (testimony) that states I believe in Allah who came in the Person of Master Fard Muhammad and I believe in the messenger of Allah, The Honorable Elijah Muhammad and his warner Louis Farrakhan". That is not the shahadah of the muslims. The NOI commits shirk (associating another being with Allah, as the NOI does!). Therefore Shirk takes them out of the fold of Islam. --Veiled One

I tried to be nice... yes, Farrakhan did say whites haven't evolved yet. But he also said that blacks weren't complete humans either. And yes, they do believe that Fard Muhammad is god. But, as I said, they worship Allah, not him. What about before Fard was born?

Also, why do you keep taking quotes from magazines? Is it that you don't hear Farrakhan with your own two ears? The magazines always take whatever he says and leaves part of it out to make it sound racist. This...means that something got left out. That's why they put it there.

And wherever you got that testimony from, it's wrong. The testimony is "I bear witness that there is no god but Allah, and that Muhammad(meaning Elijah Muhammad) is his Messenger". So that means that they believe that Fard Muhammad is Allah, not paired with Allah. And they sometimes also say "Allah, who came in the person of Master Fard Muhammad". That means that Allah is literally in the person of Fard Muhammad, not that he is with Fard Muhammad. So shirk does not exclude the NOI from the fold of Islam.AwesomePeopleMakeClay (talk) 22:42, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Prove what you keep saying

Reading this page, most of what I see is people talking about how racist the NOI is, and how all they want to do is kill white people. You all sound more racist than anything I've ever heard from the NOI. I especially hate how veiled one keeps taking quotes from magazines, but doesn't want to say anything in full sentences, or take it from where it really came from. I really don't like to argue, but I won't sit here and let you keep lying without saying something. So Tell me ANYTHING Farrakhan said that you think is racist, and I'll explain why it's not.--AwesomePeopleMakeClay (talk) 15:34, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Simple Question

What you say is that God appeared in Wallace D. Fard then what god is that which needs an assistance in appearence?????

What type of your god is that is dead himself????

If he cannot control his death than he is not the GOD?????

What is the proof Elijah Muhammad is the prophet?????

Does he did any miracle which he shown to the whole world that proves his prophecy?????

Was that miracle been recorded and shown to the rest of the world?????

If black race is superior than why does the black race wants any other race to live in this world?????

What is god doing when scientists needs to make plans for the rest of the world?????

What Black scientists did because neither in Quran and nor in Bible anything discussed about your Wallace D Fard (god),Black Scientists or anything else?????

IN MY OPINION nation of islam IS ON FALSE BELIEFS AND THEOLOGY

IN MY OPINION nation of islam IS JUST ANOTHER WAY TO MISLEAD PEOPLE AND TO THE MANKIND

IN MY OPINION nation of islam IS MISGUIDING AND UNTRUTHFUL

Firstly, God does not need assistance in appearance, because as I said earlier, Allah and Fard Muhammad are the same man. Allah appeared in the person of Master Fard Muhammad just means that Fard Muhammad is Allah.

Secondly, the Nation of Islam does not believe that Fard Muhammad is dead. They believe that he is on the mother plane, or as they are better known as, UFOs.

The Muslims believe that he will live to be at least 400 years old, but that he still has to die, because although he is God, he is still Human, and anyway, no one would want to live forever. Everyone you knew would die, and to keep everyone alive would eventually overcrowd the planet.

Even from a non-Muslim viewpoint, Elijah Muhammad can be considered a MESSENGER (not a prophet, because, according to the Muslims, he come to tell of things that WERE happening, not things that WOULD happen) because nothing he has ever said has been disproved. It has all been disputed, but never disproved.

A few months ago, I was on vacation in Chicago, and I saw six UFOs, and when I drove to the spot they seemed to be hovering over, I found that they were over MOSQUE MARYAM IN CHICAGO.

Very few incidents like this have been recorded, and unfortunately I did not have my camera at the time, but I have heard plenty of stories, most with many witnesses.

They do not believe that blacks are superior to any other race. According to the NOI, all races are equal, blacks just came first(technically blacks and Indians as well, but the NOI deals with mostly blacks, so they normally just say blacks, or they may consider blacks and Indians as one race, I'm not completely sure). And evolution actually supports this, because according to evolutional theory, the first people were from africa and had dark skin, but as they traveled away from africa, the temperatures became colder, any they no longer needed melanin as much, so their skin became lighter in color.

As for the question "What is god doing when scientists needs to make plans for the rest of the world?????" I can't really understand it because of how you said it, but if it means what I think it means, then God has his own plans for the world, and if God is independent, as you so heavily emphasize, then why would he need some scientist or Bill Gates or some other rich man to do it for him.

As to your last question, you just sound stupid. If Fard Muhammad is Allah, then more is discussed of him that anything else in the Quran or Bible. Of course, it says Allah, not Fard Muhammad, why I could not tell you, but it does, this question makes no since. Also, according to the NOI, it was the 23 scientists(of that time) that wrote the Quran, which was written to summarize the events of the next 25,00 years, and they would not be alive in the next 25,000 years, so they had no reason to write about themselves. AwesomePeopleMakeClay (talk) 21:39, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Category:Islamic sects

Why on Earth is this article placed in this category? These people are certainly not Muslims, regardless of what they call themselves (that is not opinion; it is FACT - read the Quran, and compare its contents to what these people believe). Josh (talk) 05:40, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Nation of Islam Views of Whites and of Mainstream Islam

I always thought that Nation of Islam didn't saw themselfs as part of Islam, but this article by Elijah Muhammad says that the whites should have joined Islam and criticizes them for not doing that. [1] So, from this article, there are some questions the entry should develop. What was generally speaking the view of whites according to the Nation of Islam? This article doesn't say they are naturally "evil" but that they should join mainstream Islam, obviously not the Nation of Islam that even today only is open to people from black origin. This entry needs someone with a better knowledge of the Nation of Islam that can clarify what are the current views of the Nation of Islam about whites and mainstream Islam, both Sunni, Xiite and Sufi. It also should show a bit more about their tenuous expansion to other countries.Mistico (talk) 02:08, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

NPOV

This article has multiple violations of WP:NPOV. The talk page is nothing but biased arguments that have no place on Wikipedia. The article should follow Wikipedia's standards and that's all that matters.That's my two scents 21:29, 22 November 2010 (UTC)

SPLC

Why has all mention of the Southern Poverty Law Center's classification of Nation of Islam as a hate group been removed? SPLC does an extremely serious analysis before making this classification. Any organization that meets their criteria should be noted as such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.214.157.157 (talk) 15:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Article needs reliable references

The article is flawed by over-reliance on quotes from the NOI website and statements of leaders. Editors are not supposed to use such primary sources, as their selections of material are essentially Original Research (OR), which is prohibited. Wikipedia defines "Reliable references" for editors to use as third-party sources, preferably in peer-reviewed (academic) or reliable publications. The NOI has been around long enough for substantial studies and articles to have been written about it. Editors need to use these rather than quote from the website and transcripts of speeches for material. This is why the banners for more citations and sources have been posted. In addition, when books or other sources are used, editors need to indicate the page of the reference, not just the overall source. Other readers need to be able to find the content themselves in the sources.Parkwells (talk) 17:43, 3 December 2010 (UTC)