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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Duckeggsoup (talk | contribs) at 14:34, 19 November 2011 (→‎Re-insert big section taken out on 2010/02/15 ?). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Spelling

A recent anon revert of obvious vandalism changed the spelling from 'kawaiposa' to 'kawaisa'. Which is right, the anon revert or the original? --Gwern (contribs) 16:20 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Re-insert big section taken out on 2010/02/15 ?

Hey there, some random IP (without saying a word!!) completely removed this section on February 15 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Cuteness_in_Japanese_culture&action=historysubmit&diff=344236837&oldid=344041150), which I'd like to quote here again:
Foreign observers[who?] often find this cuteness intriguing, revolting or even childish because the Japanese employ it in a vast array of situations and demographics where, in other cultures, it would be considered incongruously juvenile or frivolous (for example, in government publications, public service warnings, office environments, military advertisements, and commercial airliners, among many others).
I think it's well-worded and should be re-inserted into the article. I actually came here to see what I had modified about 1/2 year ago and found all removed. -andy 217.50.51.220 (talk) 16:14, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Well what's your source? On wikipedia, you need to cite your sources. You also shouldn't phrase things in weasel words. Munci (talk) 18:30, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
So, you want a source for common knowledge? Or are you insinuating that this is a phenomenom unworthy of a wikipedia article? That paragraph at least covers the 'what' of the topic better than what was there so I've put it back in, minus the examples that are now spread through the rest of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.175.228.227 (talk) 09:53, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]
It's not common knowledge in nearly the same as 'Obama's the President of America' is. If it was true, it wouldn't be difficult to find a source anyway. Munci (talk) 17:06, 7 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry Munci, but I hate to agree that your statement is just hearsay. Some people believe... should not be included in a good NPOV essay. Smokey bear and other mascots render this sentence of yours completely uninspired.01000100 14:34, 19 November 2011 (UTC)

Extreme cute

See 6%DokiDoki [1], which is "cute" turned up to 11. Did anybody take a usable photo when they were in San Francisco last month? --John Nagle (talk) 18:47, 30 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Citations

Hey, I'm a big fan of citations, but this article seems to be massively "overcited". I dont think every single word needs an own citation. It makes reading the article a rather unpleasant experience. My suggestion: Put the citations at the end of a sentence, even it makes it more difficult to assign them to the respective words. --MarsmanRom (talk) 10:05, 12 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am also a "big fan of citations". Citations are important on Wikipedia to know the content does not represent original research.--Ephert (talk) 02:56, 13 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I didn't suggest to REmove any citations, just to MOVE them to the end of the sentence to increase readability. --MarsmanRom (talk) 08:19, 18 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

Cuteness in Japanese culture → Kawaii – According to a Google book result, Kawaii outnumbers Cuteness in Japanese culture.

  • Kawaii 19,800
  • Cuteness in Japanese culture 5
―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 09:43, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. There are three English-language books with "kawaii" in their titles. See here, here, and here. Oxford Dictionaries has an entry for kawaii. Don't take it from me. Hannah Minx is much better looking than I am and she explains "kawaii" here. Next we need a genki article. It is a travesty that this lemma is currently about some obscure historical period. !23px! Kauffner (talk) 11:04, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose this is about cuteness in Japanese culture, not "kawaii" stuff all over the world. I notice that some of those books do not distinguish that in Japanese culture, and the derivatives found outside it. 70.24.248.23 (talk) 13:13, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support wholeheartedly. Kawaii is not the same as 'cute', it's just that that's the closest translation we can get within a single word. We need an article to explain exactly what Kawaii is. If we want an article on "Kawaii in Japan" or "outside of Japan" - if there's enough - that'd be fine. But, let's get the subject-name right. It's misleading to suggest that Kawaii is just what non-Japanese people would describe as "Cuteness".  Chzz  ►  15:16, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support; the article title was correct before it was moved. However, I should caution against using a Google search to inform a choice between a descriptive phrase and an actual name. "Cuteness in Japanese culture" need not be a phrase in common use to be an acceptable article title, per WP:NDESC. Powers T 21:29, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. I absolutely agree with this in the preceding post: " 'Cuteness in Japanese culture' need not be a phrase in common use to be an acceptable article title"; and the Google evidence presented at the start (see above) is almost meaningless. It would be absurd to expect the precise phrasal form of the present title to occur in great numbers in a Googlebook search, pitted against a single word. Try a Googlebook search for example on "Kawai (disambiguation)" (another title of an article on Wikipedia)! In any case, note that Google's "about" estimates are wildly unreliable.
Best to use a term that is meaningful to our readers, as these books do (all findable with Googlebooks):

The cult of cuteness in Japanese youth culture
The aesthetics of cute in contemporary Japanese art
Young, cute and sexy: constructing images of Japanese women in Hong Kong print media
Cuteness assessed?: an examination of cute and childlike imagery used by public, private and state organizations in Japan

Some titles use "kawaii"; but in many cases there is a context to give some clue about the meaning, with "cute" or "cuteness" perhaps present also:

The cool-kawaii: Afro-Japanese aesthetics and New World modernity
Graphic Japan: from woodblock and zen to manga and kawaii
Kawaii in Japan: just plain cute or something else
Insidiously 'cute': Kawaii cultural production and ideology in Japan

Other books do have "kawaii" in the title without clues about the meaning. But is that something for Wikipedia to emulate, in its one article devoted to cuteness in Japanese culture? There is an odd orientalism about insisting on the native word, where the concept certainly has an immediate correlate in anglophone cultures – even if the exact manifestation is different, as of course it must be. Would we insist on le mignon or le chouette in discussing cuteness in French culture? I think not. We would want to stay informative, and to show common themes across cultures rather than insisting on the obscure, the exotically titillating, or the ephemeral chic.
NoeticaTea? 22:20, 18 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. When the article was moved from "Kawaii" to the current title,it was because "kawaii" hadn't yet entered the English lexicon. As evidenced by the entry in Oxford, as well as the other references provided near the top of this discussion, this has now changed. The title of an article should be the shortest and most precise term or phrase possible. Kawaii is that short and precise term we are looking for. ···日本穣? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 05:11, 19 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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