Talk:Tesla, Inc.

Please Read

If you have remarks about the car, best to put them in the article on the car; this article is on the company.

Model S Base Price Needs Updating - No longer speculative

The Tesla website lists the Model S base price at $49,900 USD, and they're taking $5,000 reservation payments.

$465 Million from Federal Advanced Technology Vehicle Production Program

June 23, 2009 - Tesla received $465 million from the federal government to retool factories for production of electric vehicles. There is extensive detail to be covered.

Problems at Tesla

http://www.news.com/8301-11128_3-9849410-54.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-5 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.230.23.191 (talk) 17:22, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Restructuring

I tried to restructure this by putting in some sections. Things I wish were a little better:

• The section on the roadster may be getting a little too big, since there's already a page on it. But I think the specs on the car go towards explaining the company's business model.
• English vs American usage is a bit of a problem here since we have Lotus, an English company, and Tesla, an American company. I'm staying with American style as per the original version and since this is about an American car. I tried to avoid constructions that sound odd on the other continent but I'm not sure I succeeded.

--Steve Pucci | talk 15:26, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Michael Marks

If you click on his name in the article, you'll find he's long been dead. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.208.110.210 (talk) 06:52, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Tesla Motors Marketing?

This reads to me as a staged bit of company hype until I see footage of a real vehicle and some third party confirmation of the putative statistics. This whole thing reads like a marketing ploy with Wikipedia furnishing the advertising medium. --User:69.7.41.230

Seat-of-the-pants acceleration statistics have been reported on by several independent press reporters; see for instance this LA Times article by Dan Neil (including video) and this Forbes article by Elizabeth Corcoran. YouTube has even more video. While independent test track information has not yet been published, this is to be expected as common practice for automobile companies during development of a new vehicle. It is unusual, however, for Tesla to allow so many reporters to ride in their 3rd gen evaluation prototypes (development vehicles). The reported efficiency of 133 Wh/km, while quite good, is very much in line with other electric vehicles. Similarly, reports of the energy (56kWh) and power (220kW) content of the li-ion pack are well within the range of other li-ion battery packs. How might we improve the article to sound less like a "marketing ploy"? --Mwarren us 05:40, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree that the article reads like an advertisment, the Models section especially, and as asuch I will add an advert warning to the section until the advert feel is gone. Passionless (talk) 22:44, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

That single comment is 3.5 years old and is no longer relevant. The article has gone through multiple revisions by multiple editors since that time. Ng.j (talk) 23:02, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

These revisions evidently did nothing to solve the adverts, you should know you have been editing this page for over 3.5 years.Passionless (talk) 23:05, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Solar mileage offset calculation

"Tesla plans to offer home roof mounted solar-photovoltaic systems through Solar City that will offset power used by the home charger, allowing 50 miles (80 kilometers) of travel without burdening the power grid, and thus making the package "energy positive" for a driver whose average daily mileage is less than that."

It's unclear to this reader how the author arrives at his calculation of 50 miles per charge. It all depends on the consumption of energy at home and the size of the solar panel system...the vehicle can be entirely supplied by solar. Also, charging during nighttime off peak hours does not present a burden to the electrical grid. This evens out the power consumption by making use of excess generation at night. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.168.71.228 (talk • contribs) 01:06, Feb 6, 2007 (UTC)

I think the idea is that the solar system provided through Solar City will be sized to provide, on average, enough energy in one day to power the Tesla Roadster for 50 miles (assuming the 200 Wh/mile figure quoted at Tesla Roadster#Performance, that would be 10 kWh/day). It would thus offset the energy pulled out of the home system by the roadster, by putting that much energy back in, assuming you don't go over the nominal 50 miles in an average day of driving. As you point out, staying under this constraint would make the system net positive to the owner in terms of dollars, and net positive to the electrical grid's "burden", because energy is typically cheaper when being taken out than when it is replaced. --Steve Pucci | talk 14:45, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

AC Propulsion

While we at Tesla Motors are generally impressed with the caliber of information provided on our company and vehicles here on Wikipedia, there are a couple of minor areas that warrant clarification. For this reason, I have made a few edits to the Wikipedia entry as they relate to the Tesla Roadster and our partners/component suppliers for this vehicle.

I modified the language to say: "Tesla Motors licensed AC Propulsion's Reductive Charging(tm) patent, which integrates the charging electronics into the inverter in a way that reduces mass and complexity. Tesla has designed and builds its own power electronics, motor, and other drivetrain components that incorporate this licensed technology from AC Propulsion."

This more accurately characterizes the relationship between Tesla Motors and AC Propulsion.

-- David Vespremi - Director of Public Relations, Tesla Motors

Advice from a car lover

Hey there, Tesla people! Love your vehicle. Wish I could afford it.

You asked if there were a way to make it sound less like hype/marketing?

Well, first of all, keep in mind the article should be encyclopedic. It should present a neutral point of view (NPOV) and cite sources. Wikipedia:Neutral point of view

Keep in mind that this it is very difficult to write about yourself in a totally neutral manner, so extreme care should be taken to ensure a NPOV. Wikipedia:Conflict of interest

This is not to say you can't edit articles about your own company - just that you must be very careful, because it's difficult to see without rose-colored glasses.

In addition, the wikipedia policies and guidelines may prove to be helpful: Wikipedia:List of policies Wikipedia:List of guidelines

And oh, yeah, it may be helpful to create your own wikipedia account, so that you can keep track of everything you've done and to ease communication. Having an account also allows you to easily sign an article with four tildes: ~~~~ becomes CobraA1 07:06, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

David Vespremi is the only contributor that seems to work for Tesla Motors and his contribution was quite small. The same basic changes were also made in the Tesla Roadster article and I added a citation needed tag where appropriate. Are there specific paragraphs that lack NPOV or where more citation might help? Mwarren us 07:58, 15 April 2007 (UTC) (not affiliated with Tesla Motors)

Mwarren and I seem to have contributed the most to the article, at least lately, and I do not work for Tesla, as much as I would love to.
--Ng.j 21:10, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't work for Tesla either.--Steve Pucci | talk 21:33, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Hybrids... or NO? etc.

The article states at the beginning that these are electric vehicles (with same wikipedia link attached). When you go to that electric vehicle link, you'll find that definition includes hybrids. Shouldn't we make it more clear whether or not these Tesla vehicles are hybrids or not?

That also leads me to this sentence found later in the article: "... Transmission fluid and coolant changes will be required as for gasoline-engine cars. ..."

That's confusing... is this saying that the Tesla's WILL require trans fluid & coolant changes or NO? If I knew if this was a hybrid or not in the first place, I guess I could deduce it.

These cars are NOT hybrids, right? They are purely electric cars, no gasoline right? The article just isn't perfectly clear on these questions. I mean, I think one can "deduce" these things, mostly... but... why should one have to go through the effort?... it should be clearer within the article in the first place.

Thanks for your time. Cowicide 18:31, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Lotus Chassis and Lotus Assembly

I have made a minor revision to correct a reference to the Roadster using a modified Lotus Elise chassis. This is inaccurate, as the chassis is not sourced from Lotus. In addition, I corrected a reference to the assembly being done by Lotus. Assembly includes both Lotus and Tesla employees as Tesla maintains an office at Lotus' factory in Hethel with dedicated employees on site there.

-- David Vespremi, Director of Communications at Tesla Motors

Misnumbered references

Hi- I don't know how to change reference numbers, but the references in this article are misnumbered. There are two reference #5s and two #1s in the text.

Keep up the good work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.130.16.242 (talk) 04:26, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

That's not a bug, that's a feature. (I.e. reference [1] pops up in the text agains because the same reference link is used at both places in the article.) - Marcika (talk) 14:17, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Move of production from Thailand and sales in europe

I added the move of production from Thailand and the future sales in europe with 250 cars of 2009 model on offer here. Anyone knows if any service centers are planned in europe? RGDS Alexmcfire —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alexmcfire (talk • contribs)

I would imagine with the establishment of a sales office in Europe that some sort of service center is in the works.... and Tesla has already taken some orders for European sales as well. It would seem borderline insane to have to ship the cars to New York City or even California just to "get a tune-up" and perform routine maintenance. So far I haven't seen anything "official" in terms of where they might be located, but it would be reasonable to presume that they would be near major population centers.... aka London, Paris, Berlin, Rome, etc. --Robert Horning (talk) 17:01, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

link cleanup

I removed the following links from the external links section. Some of them might be appropriate for inline references, so I'll list them here:

• Distribution plan for the new Electric Car, Martin Eberhard speaks at Stanford
• Tesla Motors: Affordable Electric Cars are Coming
• Tesla Roadster: The Electric Car that Redefines "Power" (Part 1)
• Tesla Roadster: New Power to the People (Part 2)
• Plug in Cars In Business, Radio 4, September 2006
• Channel 4 news story (contains speculative material and rumors)
• The Guardian newspaper on the Tesla Roadster
• Green Vehicle News on the Tesla Roadster
• Tesla Roadster review by L.A. Times' Pulitzer-winning auto critic Dan Neil
• USF MBA Podcast, Jan 28th, 2007 Audio presentation by Tesla's Co-Founder & CEO
• Green Dream: The Electric Tesla Roadster An October 2007 update from Newsweek.com
• Video interview of Elon Musk by Zadi Diaz of EPIC FU, weekly web show that covers online pop culture (June 17, 2008)

tedder (talk) 20:54, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Some reworking of the layout

Leave any feedback here, I reorganized allot, so if anyone has any issue with it let me know TrevorLSciAct (talk) 19:25, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Have not heard,Tesla Motors making cars in U.K. I beleive last update

Hello, intrested in Nikola tesla(1856-19430 Founded Tesla rememberance day /Global Energy Independence day on teslaBirthadte jul 10th see google, www.teslasociety.com. Last I heard Tesla motors was making cars in U.K. now? A still viable Auto company ? Thanks! (Dr. Edson Andre' Johnson)Andreisme (talk) 20:55, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Links to Lotus

In the recalls section, Lotus is mentioned by the text, "Lotus," but is not a hyperlink to Lotus Cars, which it should. MadConan (talk) 12:52, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

How much cost to fuel a Tesla car ????

That information is not clear and I think it's really interesting for the people reading the article. We can see a lot of information about performance, technical, etc. However, the article don't cover this topic, which I think it's extremely interesting for the consumer.

I suggest to add a table comparing how much cost a "load" (for a Tesla car) vs "fuel" (for a normal car), in the following fashion:

Comparison between a Tesla car and a Normal car, both traveling X number of miles

Car X (for example a Lotus car) Tesla car model x (the Tesla model subject of the comparison) Price per gallon / Total price Price per hour of charge / Total price

The idea is to compare how much cost a deposit of a normal car to travel X number of miles versus the price per hour of electricity load that a Tesla car needs to travel that number of miles.

Of course, the electricity rates and price per gallon or liter of fuel depends on every country. I suggest the United States as a model to compare these data. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.31.180.91 (talk) 06:54, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

The naive answer is to multiply the electricity cost by the Roadster's efficiency rating of 28 kW·h⁄100 mi. For example, if electricity costs $0.10⁄kW·h, then a 100 mile drive will cost

$0.10⁄kW·h * 28 kW·h⁄100 mi * 100 mi = $2.80

or $0.028⁄mile for electricity.

Unfortunately, a simple example like this tends to create more controversy than it resolves in the form of "but what about XXX ?!?" questions. The Tesla Roadster discussion page talked about this a couple of years ago and decided to simply point folks to the Electric car#Comparison with internal combustion engine vehicles section so that folks could learn how to make their own comparison using their personal set of cost variables (driving style, electric rate, geography, battery pack aging, insurance, interest rates, maintenance, gasoline price, depreciation, tax benefits, electric generation, gasoline refining, and so on). A total cost of ownership example might be appropriate for WikiHow, but it's too difficult to find consensus in just one encyclopedic article. —sn‾uǝɹɹɐʍɯ (talk) 00:27, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Lawsuits

Merge Fisker lawsuit from Tesla Model S into this article? I'd like to move the description of the lawsuit with Fisker out of the Model S article and into the lawsuits section here. Comments? Thanks! —sn‾uǝɹɹɐʍɯ (talk) 17:16, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

No mention of the Tesla BlueStar?

The article is orphaned, and I would think it should be mentioned in this article. --192.77.126.50 (talk) 10:20, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

It was, but someone edited it out. I have put it back in, as it is a critical aspect of Tesla′s long-term corporate strategy.Ng.j (talk) 07:00, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

plane crash

three engineers died in a plane crash on Feb 17, 2010 shortly after taking off in E. Palo Alto. 99.66.145.201 (talk) 20:53, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Did this have any significant impact on the corporation? If not, while it is sad, it should not be included per WP:NOTNEWS. Alanraywiki (talk) 00:44, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Nikola Tesla's ethnicity

Re: recent attempts to mention that Nikola Tesla is Serbian. His ethnicity is irrelevant to this article. Would it make any difference if he was Serbian, Austrian, American or Martian? Nikola Tesla was great at electricity - and that's all that matters. Readers can follow the link if they want to know more about the man.  Stepho  (talk) 13:52, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

How is it irrelevant? Can you elaborate further? --UrbanVillager (talk) 02:41, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

More to the point, how is it relevant? 'Tesla Motors' is an American company producing cars primarily for the American market. It was named after an expert in the electrical field (pun not intended) who did most of his famous work in America and became a naturalised US citizen. But the company could equally well have been named after Maxwell, Faraday, Franklin or Edison (British and American electrical pioneers) and their ethnicity would not make the slightest difference to the article. Any readers who wants to know more about the man can follow the link and find out all about him.

Notice to editors on both sides of the argument. Since we are in the beginnings of an edit war, please do not edit the article about this point - the continual back and forth edits make it hard to make sense of other changes. Instead, make your arguments here. When we have a consensus, then (and only then) should the article be updated. Cheers.  Stepho  (talk) 09:04, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Your arguments make sence only from the viewpoint of a pioneer of the post-national modernia of the brave new world. Hiding Nikola's ethnicity is convenient only to those who are, in fact, ashamed of it. Thus, it stays in the article! --UrbanVillager (talk) 19:37, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

I think you need some knowledge of my background. I'm Australian. I spent considerable time working in China and married a Chinese wife. I have worked well with Chinese, Brits, Canadians, Latvians, Croations, Poles, Russians, Lithuanians, Austrians, Germans, Hungarians, Indians, Sri-Lankans, Malaysians, Filipinos and many more. Each is proud of their heritage but each recognises that other people are also equally proud of their own heritage too. I have travelled well and love experiencing other cultures. I've watched mainland China trying to merge all it ethnic groups into a single lump and have not liked it. I've watched Australia become a mini clone of the US and have not liked it. Thus, your first sentence can not be treated seriously. For your second sentence, I am not contesting whether he is Serbian or not. I only say that it should be on his own article because his origin doesn't affect this article. You haven't shown how his ethnicity affects this page or the company. Did the company choose that name because they have some ties to Serbia? Did they particular wish to be related to Serbia? Or was it simply because he was an electrical genious that is famous in the same country that the company is in? Since you are trying to add the information about his ethnicity, the onus is on you to provide a reason for it to stay? Cheers.

The ethnicity is irrelevant to the car company. The automobile company was named for Tesla because of his vocation, and that is what should noted. There does not appear to be any reason to keep the ethnicity. Alanraywiki (talk) 22:22, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Anyone's personal experiences are irrelevant as arguments on Wikipedia. Nobody has shown that the addition of Tesla's ethnicity, one word, is to the detriment of the article, and rather, such fury over the mention of Tesla's ethnicity shows that there are some shadow feelings towards Nikola's people, something not uncommon in the Western world. --UrbanVillager (talk) 19:37, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Given the list of people that I have happily worked with, you may want to reconsider calling me a racist. But you haven't answered, why his ethnicity is important to this article? Does it make a difference to how the company runs? Was his name chosen because the company founders had some affiliation with Serbia? You must give a reason.  Stepho  (talk) 23:13, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

You're missing the point. I'm not saying the company has anything to do with Serbia, I'm saying that Tesla was a Serb. And in that paragraph, we're talking about Tesla, not this company. I stand by my previous comments. --UrbanVillager (talk) 21:22, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Do you want the ethnicity of every other person mentioned in the article added? Why just Tesla? Alanraywiki (talk) 21:44, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Because the company was named after Tesla. Duh. --UrbanVillager (talk) 18:52, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Excellent, we have agreed that the company has nothing to do with Serbia. Now back to the original question (which you have never answered) - how does Tesla the man's ethnicity affect the company? Would it have made any difference if he was from another culture?  Stepho  (talk) 22:42, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

How does describing that Tesla was a physicist affect the company? It doesn't. It doesn't matter whether the person, animal or object has anything to do with the company named after it, just like Jaguar Cars have nothing to do with the jaguar animal. The point is that in that paragraph, we're talking about Nikola Tesla, not Tesla company, and Nikola's important trait was that he was Serbian:

There is something within me that might be illusion as it is often case with young delighted people, but if I would be fortunate to achieve some of my ideals, it would be on the behalf of the whole of humanity. If those hopes would become fulfilled, the most exciting thought would be that it is a deed of a Serb

— Nikola Tesla

--UrbanVillager (talk) 18:52, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Tesla was not a physicist, he was an electrical engineer (and an excellent one at that). The company makes electric cars, so it makes sense to name it after a famous electrical engineer - i.e. there is a direct relationship.  Stepho  (talk) 22:37, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Hm, that's odd, considering this article mentions that Tesla was a physicist. And yet, you're not arguing that the "physicist" bit should be removed. You rather focus on the "Serbian" word. Seems your real motives have been revealed. --UrbanVillager (talk) 20:36, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

This discussion appears to be at an impasse. I will set up a request for comment. Alanraywiki (talk) 19:46, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Excellent idea.  Stepho  (talk) 22:37, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

Should the adjective Serb be used to describe Tesla?

A discussion has been held on the talk page where one editor feels it is important to put the ethnicity of the person for whom the company is named, while others feel the ethnicity is irrelevant in this article. Alanraywiki (talk) 19:49, 8 October 2010 (UTC)

The ethnicity is completely irrelevant so far as the company itself is concerned, where Nikola Tesla didn't play a role in terms of its founding. Tesla is involved so far as the inventor of the AC electric motor that Tesla Motors is using in their automobiles. So why is the ethnicity so fundamentally important to this article? To the best of my knowledge nobody even remotely related to Nikola Tesla is even associated with Tesla Motors either as an investor or as an employee, not even a cousin's roommate's sister-in-law or something more tenuous than even that. Tesla Motors was founded by a couple of Americans and a South African in California. Is there something more that needs to be said about the ethnicity of those involved? --Robert Horning (talk) 20:46, 9 October 2010 (UTC)

No need to mention Tesla's ethnicity. The first thing that comes to mind at the mention of Tesla Motors is the ingenuity of Silicon Valley (other than green technology) which is rightly captured in the lead. Zuggernaut (talk) 19:07, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Ethnicity is irrelevant. I tend to slightly agree with those saying so. I would only add one other point. Nikola Tesla lived a great deal of his life in the USA. As such, the user wishing to add in Tesla's ethnicity might see that there is also an ambiguity, based on his reasoning, as to whether Tesla should be described as the "Serbian physicist" or the "American physicist". Better to just avoid any such ambiguities altogether and not include any such mention in the article. Readers can easily click on the link to Tesla's bio wikipage and learn more about the man regarding these unimportant facts.Chhe (talk) 04:23, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

Irrelevant I don't think it contributes anything to the article, even if his ethnicity is clear (as Chhe correctly states, it is not). The disambiguation page doesn't list his nationality. I think the only qualifiers used with his name should be related to his profession 'engineer', ect.--hacky (talk) 04:17, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

Consensus is that ethnicity is irrelevant Ng.j (talk) 07:02, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Disputed

I am disputing a number of the factual assertions made in this article. Elon Musk is talked about so much here that it makes me wonder if I'm reading the article about Tesla Motors ar the bio about Musk. Furthermore, he's repeatedly referred to as the "founder of Tesla Motors"; Tesla was founded by Eberhard and Tarpenning. Musk was just an initial investor who took a direct interest in his investment. Using the logic that Musk was a founder because he invested money would follow that Bill Gates would also be a founder of every company he ever invested in. I have added one fact tag, but this article needs more than I could ever insert in a timely manner. It's more like a hagiography of Musk than anything. - Burpelson AFB ✈ 17:16, 14 October 2010 (UTC)

Someone undid all of my edits telling to read the Lawsuits section. Ok, so Musk is a "co-founder". That still doesn't address the fact that this article is basically an Elon Musk hagiography, that it needs additional references for verification, and needs a great deal of work to make it conform to NPOV. - Burpelson AFB ✈ 15:32, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't see the problems you are asserting here, especially in a broad and non-specific manner. The "co-founder" issue is factually accurate, although it is useful to point out that Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning were the ones that I consider more of the proper co-founders. Elon Musk wanted to simply have an electric vehicle prototype, but while talking over lunch they decided to go into the serial production business of building automobiles. So yeah, Elon Musk as the co-founder in this sense is correct as it was Eberhard and Straubel who did the engineering, but Musk provided the initial financing and contacts for additional financing later on. Elon Musk also has an engineering background, so he was also involved somewhat in the technical decisions even though he wasn't involved with the day to day decisions to run the company until after the resignation of Martin Eberhard. Elon Musk was around when the name "Tesla Motors" was coined and when the office was opened... so does that make him a co-founder? If you are insisting upon sources for this, I'll try to dig them up. Some of this can be found on the Tesla blogs, and there is some additional information on Martin Eberhard's blog (which can only be accessed now from archive.org).

Beyond that, what are the specific "multiple issues" that you have here, and let's see if we can get them addressed?

BTW, I do think there has been some astroturfing on the part of Elon Musk since the big corporate shakeup to position himself as a co-founder and to take credit for that term more than the term justifies, but the use of that term is in many secondary publications outside of Wikipedia and something that I don't think you can reliably remove without some significant explanation and perhaps some original research too. The secondary sources seem to back up the current version of this article and Wikipedia is not the proper forum for trying to correct this issue. Complaining to some of the various editors of auto magazines who write about Tesla Motors that Elon Musk is not properly a co-founder, or write a blog yourself about the issue and attempt to spread the idea among Tesla fans might be a much better way to deal with the issue. If you want to write an NPOV and factually correct with proper sources paragraph or two about the founding of Tesla Motors that goes into the true role which Elon Musk had with founding the company, it certainly would be a useful addition to this article. Engaging in an edit war is not the proper way to handle this issue. Finding a quote from Elon Musk prior to 2008 that shows him acknowledging that he is not a co-founder would help too... something I think you would have a hard time trying to find. --Robert Horning (talk) 17:21, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

I don't have any further issue with calling Musk a co-founder, since that title is verifiable by reliable sources (this was my own oversight). The issue I have is with the number of times his name is mentioned in this article. I haven't done an exact word count, but again and again, I see "Co-founder Elon Musk", "CEO Elon Musk", "Elon Musk" "Founder and cheif designer Elon Musk"... The current article gives readers the impression that Tesla = Elon Musk, that he basically designed and constructed the car himself, that all these other people associated with the company were just his minions or people who got kicked out "after he took over and rescued the company from disaster" (my emphasis). In short, the article seems to be a victim of an astroturfing campaign (as you say), some sort of revisionism to make it look like Musk overwhelmingly created Tesla out of empty space mostly by himself. This is probably due to the fact that the media seems to focus on him quite a bit, and those are probably because of deliberate PR campaigns. As the article currently stands, it should be retitled "Elon Musk and Tesla", since the company Tesla Motors is primarily presented here as it relates to Musk. I realize Musk is the public face of Tesla and he's one of the more important people associated with the company, but this article should be more about the company, rather than about how it relates to their CEO. Our article should be more about the company, less about the PR presented by the company in order to promote itself in conjunction with their popular CEO. In short, perhaps WP:UNDUE is an appropriate guideline for me to link. Most of the problems can be fixed with editing. - Burpelson AFB ✈ 18:39, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Some of this may be due to the way it has been written, in a rather piecemeal fashion too. I've had this on my watchlist for several years, and done a few tweaks and pokes at the content from time to time but nothing serious. The article has certainly evolved over time mainly from press releases and news making events about the company. That perhaps is the reason for this emphasis on Elon Musk, as he certainly has been the focus of most of those news articles and often the spokesman for the company as well. This has been particularly true since the rollout of the Roadster as it went into production.

Discounting the pictures where Elon Musk is clearly identifiable in the images and the corporate information sidebar where is role is clearly proper and not undue, the two sections where I think the most work ought to be concentrated is the History section and the Lawsuits. In terms of the Lawsuits, I don't know how else to really simplify that as it really did center around Elon Musk and his relationship to the company.

Basically, I would agree to a major overhaul of the history section simply to make it flow as a narrative and to perhaps put some structure to that section. I also feel that your concerns about the overuse of the name "Elon Musk" would be dealt with through rewriting that sections, which to me in addition to that undue influence also seems short and choppy with what appears to be bad grammar and poor literary structure as well. Try to read it out loud to see what I mean if you disagree. If you want to be pro-active rather than a critic, would you have a suggestion for what kind of "outline" you think would be useful in terms of doing a re-write of that whole section? I'd be willing to poke through that outline and give a couple of other suggestions, and perhaps some other editors familiar with Tesla Motors might be interested in helping too. The raw content with reliable sources is huge that could apply here, so we have a lot to pick and choose through that can make this section much closer to something you'd find in a featured article. --Robert Horning (talk) 20:19, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

I have been following the company for several years and it is clear that Elon Musk was not merely an investor but a founder. I added a citation to a blog that Martin Eberhard wrote about Musk's early and deep involvement with the design -- from Musk's insistence on carbon fiber body panels to his design of the headlights and powertrain components. Eberhard stated plainly in the lawsuit settlement that Musk was a co-founder of the company. I also added a paragraph about the second recall after Robert's suggestion on this breaking bit of news. Thanks, Robert. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rexmontaigne (talk • contribs) 21:38, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Yes, perhaps it can be improved simply by a thorough edit and a revamp of the history section. As time allows I'll start working on something in userspace that we can discuss. - Burpelson AFB ✈ 15:43, 18 October 2010 (UTC)

2nd Roadster Recall

This is breaking news as it were and I don't have the time to put it into this article, but I think it would be appropriate. More sources may be found on this topic, I'm pretty sure:

Tesla Motors Recalling Roadster over Fire Concerns (Oct 8th, 2010)

-- Robert Horning (talk) 21:13, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Models section clean-up

Alright, so one complaint I have on this article is the length given to the Tesla Roadster, Tesla Roadster Sport, and to a lesser degree the Model S. As all these vehicles have there own page, that this page is suppose to be about the company more than each product, and as the page is easily long enough to deem splitting, I suggest we reduce the size of these sections to less than 10 lines and 1 photo. (Roadster has over 50 lines and 3 photos). This reduction will not only filter out the less important information (eg. "The Roadster will also be one of almost 1,000 cars featured in the upcoming PlayStation 3 racing simulation game, Gran Turismo 5."), but also remove quasi-advertising (Improved interior sound reduction including new front fender liner material make the cabin even quieter). Let me know if your fine with this/suggestions/want to work together (looking at you User:Ng.j) Passionless (talk) 03:43, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Oh, what I said about the intro being too short was based on this:Wikipedia:Lead section#Length. So 3-4 paragraphs is suppose to be appropriate, though fixing the intro should wait until the article contents are settled.Passionless (talk) 03:47, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

I agree in principle with what you are proposing. Specific model information should be on their individual pages, and the information here should be a condensed highlight. It should be a rewrite, rather than pruning though. Glad you are seeking consensus before making large changes. I'd like to see what others have to say. Ng.j (talk) 04:34, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Well I started, I removed some of the least important stuff first, there's still more to be done, but I will slow down so you have time to remark on my changes. Also, I doubt there will be much consensus past us as usually only important articles get more than two people at any specific time caring enough to read the discussion and add input. Passionless (talk) 07:39, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

I can tell you that I do not agree with this edit. When someone walks by and pumps a couple of million dollars into a company, and it's sourced, then it's probably relevant. Drmies (talk) 20:26, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

I know its relevant, thats why I left it to say that he was the chief investor, if you want to add the exact dollar term you can. I'm not really sure what else there was in that edit that follows your complaint,Passionless (talk) 05:46, 10 December 2010 (UTC)

Factory article

There is a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Automobiles#NUMMI and Tesla Factory about the scope of the Tesla Factory article.  Stepho  (talk) 06:21, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Logo

Would anyone like to upload the company logo? I'm pretty new to Wikipedia (editing, anyway), so I'll leave it to a seasoned and experienced person. This is what it should be:

Tesla Red Flag —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.6.108.18 (talk) 06:42, 25 January 2011 (UTC)

Number of vehicles sold to date

The article does not mention the number of vehicles sold to date. Can someone provide this information? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.166.155.113 (talk) 04:32, 27 March 2011 (UTC)

File:Tesla Motors logo.jpg Nominated for Deletion

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$ vs US$

John asked me about this on my talk page yesterday but I was otherwise occupied to answer him straight away. Probably better here anyway. It is a US company but sales have started in Australia, Hong Kong and Singapore (all of which use different $ currencies) and has also expanded operations to Europe. To my mind, this makes the use of the unadorned '$' to be ambiguous - especially to readers in Australia, Hong Kong and Singapore. No mention of Canada was made but I would also be very surprised if sales were not made there in Canadian dollars. Also consider that Toyota has bought a significant part of the company, which adds to the international flavour.  Stepho  talk  02:02, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

All good points. I think the United States entry in the infobox and linking $ the first time the currency is mentioned, cover this adequately enough for our readers to understand which dollar is being discussed. --John (talk) 07:00, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

I would disagree with the above, although adding "USD" after values where the number is ambiguous would be useful... or note other currencies being used if those values are being quoted. I seriously don't think that anybody would mistaken the values in this article as being anything other than U.S. Dollars given the context of the article. --Robert Horning (talk) 21:34, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Robert, you didn't say which of us you disagree with. I've done business in Australia, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Canada and the US. It's not always obvious which currency is being used in contracts between countries, overseas sales, newspaper reports on foreign events, etc and getting the currency right can make an eight-fold difference. Regardless, I'm happy enough with John's rewrite, which mentioned USD near the top.  Stepho  talk  22:55, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Currently the only?

-"It is currently the only automaker building and selling a zero-emission sports car, the Tesla Roadster, in serial production (as opposed to prototype or evaluation series production)". Is this still true? What about the Fisker Karma? Mamalujo (talk) 18:27, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

That is a pretty recent change. Provide a source verifying that Fisker is producing something too. Then again, you can change the wording of the article, which is the point of making this a wiki as sometimes stuff like this does change. When it was written, it was a true statement of fact even if that "fact" has changed. Considering that the Roadster is being phased out of production, I would think claiming Tesla as even having a production vehicle at the moment would be in question. --Robert Horning (talk) 21:00, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Comments and suggestions

1. I think that after Model S, all the other cars should be grouped into a separate category. They are not quite 100% Tesla cars and show be listed under another section that could be called "Collaborations" or something similar.

2. This article says "Tesla was founded in San Carlos, California, a city in the region known as Silicon Valley." The article on Silicon Valley says "Geographically, the Silicon Valley encompasses all of the Santa Clara Valley including the city of San Jose (and adjacent communities), the southern Peninsula, and the southern East Bay." I live in Silicon Valley and I am pretty sure San Carlos is not part of it.

3. "Starting in late 2007, Daimler and Tesla Motors began working closely to integrate Tesla’s lithium-ion battery packs and charging electronics into the first 1,000 units of Daimler’s electric smart car."

I assume the word "smart" should be capitalized. I think the issue here is the brand called "Smart".

ICE77 (talk) 03:51, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Top gear court case

The following has been added and reverted a few times: "Tesla has lost the major part of the lawsuit, other claims have yet to be decided. http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/oct/19/top-gear-not-libel-tesla"

Why is this controversial? It seems like simply keeping up-to-date with the results of the court case, as reported by a major newspaper. No opinion has been expressed, except possibly by Greg in a revision comment in the history, which does not form part of the article.  Stepho  talk  14:16, 20 October 2011 (UTC)

Classification EV or EVM?

Would tesla be classified as an EV or EMV? The manufacturing process divulges the fact that they have specialized electro-magnetic motors and equipment. I think maybe its an Electro-magnetic hybrid vehicle. If it were an electric vehicle it wouldn't have a magnetized motor that recharges or spins via magnetic links. The motor would just have magnetic senses for alignment like any ordinary electric motor. Murriemir 24 January 2012

Every electric vehicle must use an electric motors. Every electric motor uses electro-magnetic fields. This includes even the exotic, impractical drives such as linear motors, mass drivers and ion thrusters. There is no distinction between EV and EMV.  Stepho  talk  00:11, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Agreed. This is fundamental physics, not some sekrit device they have created. Greglocock (talk) 01:55, 24 January 2012 (UTC)