User talk:Anthonyhcole

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Noel Lee

Thanks! It should be easy for me to de-orphan his page by linking to it on the Monster Cable Products page and I'd be happy to add some categories as a non-controversial edit, unless you think I should use Request Edit, as well as keep prodding Monster for images with copyright permissions. I'm expecting some of the typical BLP riff raff like this to find its way there eventually, so I'll flag that when/if it comes up.

I mentioned on Talk that "(manufacturer)" wasn't quite right. Businessman, Monster CEO, CEO, or if we wanted to be cute "Head Monster" ;-) (or whatever) might be more on-target. CorporateM (Talk) 13:26, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Oooh, or "(Executive)", I think that's what we usually use. CorporateM (Talk) 13:33, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Ah. I forgot about de-orphanning. I've moved to Noel Lee (executive) and linked to that from Monster Cable Products, but if you'd prefer demigod or other, let me know and I'll do the move. As for that, what can you do? It's a wiki. Ping me if you need help with anything. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 13:45, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes, yes, demi-god would work quite nicely. ;-) CorporateM (Talk) 13:52, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Actually, you'll need to double my commission for that move. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 13:54, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Now you sound like User:Drmies ;-)

Sounds like I need to have a quiet word with Mr D. :{ --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 18:11, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Hey now. I'm still waiting on my cut for Mathijs Bouman--cheap-ass Dutch calvinist. Drmies (talk) 18:30, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Mate, there's enough here for everyone. We just need to, you know, keep in touch. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 19:17, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

I'm waiting for a huge check for History of public relations. That article has drained me, but then, I don't think it does anyone any favors, except maybe the wire services for this little social plug. CorporateM (Talk) 18:46, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Someone from Monster just sent me a PDF with a bunch of copyedits like "expires" -> "expired" and "Monster Cable Products" -> "Monster" (they shortened their name a while back). I'm gonna go ahead and put those in as non-controversial edits with detailed edit summaries. However, if I do go beyond a non-controversial edit, I encourage trout-slapping. CorporateM (Talk) 18:03, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Fine. You can ping me when you're done, if you want. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 18:11, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

 Done Diff Mostly just correcting grammar, run-ons, tense etc. There were a couple edits in the pdf that would have added slightly promotional language, which I skipped. This comes to mind as something that isn't quite just a clerical edit. It's a huge burden to ask volunteers to correct every period and whatnot, so I'll usually just fix such things. CorporateM (Talk) 18:36, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

I've got no issues with any of that. It's a pleasure doing business with you. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 19:17, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

• (talk page stalker) CorporateM, I congratulate you on creating a text as neutral as that with such promotional sources. (I know that's the way the journals write: always with the congratulatory tone.) But about the iffy diff: I think the whole bit after "cable" is iffy, not just the consumers. Unfortunately I can't check how exactly the source puts it, because the pdf in footnote 12 is broken. (Unless it breaks when I download it.) I've edited it, anyway. Feel free to improve. Bishonen | talk 19:57, 29 July 2013 (UTC).

The original was more true to the source, but I think your edit is still better. The sources that talk about Lee all focus on his successfully persuading the market that the cables made a difference in the sound, but I happen to know that not everyone was convinced. I had expressed some concern about this bias to User:North8000 but wasn't sure how to correct it. That little tweek is perfect and I would consider it an acceptable stray from the source as common sense and IAR. As you pointed out, the press that we use as source material doesn't necessarily share Wikipedia's editorial mission, so we have to use good judgement to make sure we are more neutral than the sources. CorporateM (Talk) 20:37, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Right. Thanks. Uh, can you see what's wrong with the pdf, and maybe fix it? It's beyond my skill. Bishonen | talk 20:49, 29 July 2013 (UTC).

The PDF works for me; just takes a really long time to download. It's only 400KBs, so I presume it's a problem on their side. I can email it to you if you like. CorporateM (Talk) 21:34, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

What happened to me, several times, was it arrived as two pdfs, one empty and one corrupt. No, it can't have been the size, and it didn't take long at all. Anyway, I just tried again and this time it worked. :-) Computers aren't the logical machines they're cracked up to be; they're ruled by capricious, testy little men who live inside them and do all the work. My mac is, at least. Bishonen | talk 23:31, 29 July 2013 (UTC).

I'm a mac user as well. Now if only I could find a mac that doesn't overheat when playing World of Warcraft I would be a happy camper. Until then, I'll somewhat begrudgingly continue buying macs because I have lost touch with my skills at constant Windows maintenance. But now I've really hijacked Anthony's page, so I should scurry off. You can also follow me to the actual Monster page here if you want. Despite what *some* editors think, I don't pay commission, but I do offer myself as a punching bag to COI critics by disclosing all over the place. I've heard it makes for good sport. :-D CorporateM (Talk) 01:27, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

DYK-Good Article Request for Comment

Hi, would you like to elaborate on your !vote? :) --Gilderien Chat|What I've done 23:09, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

I might add to the discussion later. I can't imagine what the oppose rationales will be. Is it a tribal thing between GA/FA and DYK? (You don't have to answer that, given your role in this.) Thanks very much for persevering. It would be nice for the GA people to get their moment in the sun too. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 23:25, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes! Those GA people, let em stew in their own juices. If they can't bring something up to FA, that's their problem. Bwuhaha! Drmies (talk) 18:43, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

This callous attitude toward content-creators by Machiavellian power-players such as yourself, Mr Demise, is at the heart of the corruption here. (I'm sure we can still work out something on that "other" matter, though.) --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 19:17, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

That's Mrs. Demise, of course. Seriously, I'm somewhat torn about the proposal, indicated by the fact that I can't remember if I initially endorsed it or shouted it down. On the one hand it's a bit easy for GA writers to rack up another totem with the same article, and it's all-too enticing for DYK reviewers to basically say " per GA review". (There's enough problems already in the DYK reviews and, pace Eric Corbett, in GA reviews also, though arguably there's fewer problems.) On the other, sure, GA writers need some recognition as well. (I play both fields.) And I would support the separate mention of new GAs in the FA box, but that begs the question of selection (and how many?), and the front page is indeed a bit cluttered already (as Eric pointed out). Drmies (talk) 19:46, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

I can't bear any of it actually, Ma'am. This is my preferred option for the main page. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 20:02, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Nihilist! What will the sponsors say?? Drmies (talk) 20:10, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

I see you called one section "General discussion" and the other "General Discussion" so I didn't really need to do that rename. Oh well. Carry on. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 23:46, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

ANI

My comment at ANI wasn't at all meant as a criticism of you. In fact, quite the opposite. My meaning was to compliment you for actually being the only one to provide some actual context. I'm sorry if I was unclear in making it though; I think my follow up will make that clear. Shadowjams (talk) 06:25, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

No problem at all, Shadowjams. I didn't read it negatively. It's hard to judge tone sometimes in text. I can see TheShadoeCrow is deeply pissed off. And it worries me when an editor is in that state and an admin can't handle it. Perhaps TheShadowCrow is an ass. I don't know. But I just don't think it's ever appropriate for an admin to address an angry, aggrieved editor in those terms. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 06:44, 31 July 2013 (UTC)

Talk page linking from Megacephalic

I changed my name a few weeks ago, I thought I had done all of the required work to link everything. Apparently, I did not. So thank you for letting me know! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Caitlin.swartz (talk • contribs) 01:23, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

No worries. You can keep it black by using <font color = black>Megacephalic</font> I think. (That will make your sig' disappear for users who work with white/blue text on a black background. Yes, people do that - but not many.) --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 01:34, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

I decided to go back to my old user name. I believe that the problem is fixed. Is it? Caitlin.swartz (talk) 01:36, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

Okay, it appears that my talk link is back. Though, I am still unclear as to how to permanently add contrib and email.Would you mind helping me out? Thank you. Caitlin.swartz (talk) 01:39, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

In preferences, I added [[User:Anthonyhcole|Anthonyhcole]] ([[User talk:Anthonyhcole|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Anthonyhcole|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Anthonyhcole|email]]) to the "Signature" field and ticked the "Treat the above as wiki markup" box.

So, try pasting
[[User:Caitlin.swartz|Caitlin.swartz]] ([[User talk:Caitlin.swartz|talk]] · [[Special:Contributions/Caitlin.swartz|contribs]] · [[Special:EmailUser/Caitlin.swartz|email]])
(and tick the box). Let me know. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 02:49, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

(talk page stalker) Ha ha! Snap! -- Hillbillyholiday ^talk 02:53, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

You know, I do really love you. Let's get that straight. You're funny and fun and this place needs a lot more of both of those. Welcome back. Be good. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 08:48, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

(Groan.) --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 13:07, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

TSC

Hi, it's interesting to see you saying I have demonstrated "poor judgment" - other than TSC you're the only person IIRC who has said that. Please feel free to provide specific diffs, I'd be interested to see an outside party's view on the matter. Also, please don't encourage TSC. GiantSnowman 20:04, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

On TSC's talk page I say "hint at poor judgment" because it's not clear. In the first incident he cites at his RFAR (this split conversation: a/b) you assume from the start that the sources he's using to establish the subject's notability don't cover the subject in significant detail.

Two hours into the discussion you tell him, "Stop being so difficult, and please find some more sources if you wish for me to unlock the article. ... Just because something is true does not mean it is notable. That is basic, basic, basic stuff." Three hours in you tell him, "No, I have looked at the sources - as I have stated (far too) many times, they do not meet GNG, as they are WP:ROUTINE and do not cover the subject in significant detail. For the 3rd or 4th time - are more sources available?" and "Something more than run-of-the-mill/transfer news - an in-depth piece(s) or interview in national media would suffice." When he tells you three of the four existing sources are interviews, you reply with, "Hmm, fine, I've opened it up."

It's hard to escape the impression that you didn't bother to look at the sources, or run them through Google translate or ask the editor what they were. You were a little patronising to him, and you didn't apologise for wasting his time. I say sorry if I block a doorway for a few seconds. So, on it's face there is a hint of arrogance and lack of diligence, and your graceless concession smacks of possible poor social judgment.

But I don't know the background. Perhaps he's been a complete arsehole to you before, and what I witnessed there was saintly restraint from you under the (unknown-to-me) circumstances. Or perhaps it was an isolated case, a lapse in an otherwise ideal record. Only lots of experience of you, or a rigorous review of your history, will tell. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 21:31, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

I did check the sources but did not know they they were as in-depth as they are for obvious reasons - I don't speak Armenian. TSC is a/was a difficult editor and despite my many requests, it took him far too long to confirm the depth of coverage. He also has a history of adding unreferenced material to BLPs so I was naturally doubtful of his 'significant sources.' So other than that, there is nothing that is concerning to you? GiantSnowman 08:14, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

There is, actually. But nothing about you, in particular. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 08:49, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Glad to hear it! Please do not simply take the word of a disruptive user (who has caught the attention of many admins with his problematic behaviour) presenting one side of a story. GiantSnowman 08:53, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

I don't take anyone's word, especially admins' about "disruptive" editors. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 08:56, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

You don't have to take my word for it, simply look at his block log / restrictions / the BOOMERANG comments. GiantSnowman 09:05, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

I've seen his block log. Have you seen mine? I notice you do a bit of editing in football-related articles. Have you ever been in a content dispute with TSC? --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 09:34, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

No, your block log is irrelevant here. A "bit" of editing is an understatement, football is my main area! Never been in a content dispute with TSC, though I have reverted him / challenged his edits on some articles (as you are already aware) - but I don't like your assumption here. GiantSnowman 10:26, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

I wasn't aware you had reverted him / challenged his edits on some articles. What makes you think that? The only interaction I'm aware of is the discussion I quoted above. I guess I'm asking, have you and he been in any acrimonious editorial disputes - something that an independent observer might think disqualifies you from sanctioning him? I'm assuming nothing. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 10:36, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

I presumed you were aware of our past intractions seeing as you have already provideddiffs to that effect...? As for "acrimonious editorial disputes" - no, definitely not, and if we had have been I guarantee TSC would have raised it already. GiantSnowman 10:50, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. That's a diff to one interaction where you're acting as an admin.

I'm just reading through his AE history and block log. I've just gotten up to your recent block but haven't read through the aftermath to the unblock yet. Did you concede that was an inappropriate block in hindsight (given the "exemption" TCO had given him), though I doubt you'd have any way of knowing the exemption existed at the time? There is a case to be made that the block was appropriate, if you consider the name of an Armenian player to have cultural implications. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 11:02, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

My take on the AE block conclusion (and obviously I'm slightly biased here!) was that the block was with merit (as you state, the cultural implications of the Armenian vs. Russian name), but due to the confusion regarding the sports exemption it was fairer to remove it. It's also worth noting that I suggested removing the block (diff can be provided if you're interested) a day or two before it actually was, purely becauese I was possibly INVOLVED (as I had given an opinion at the RM that led to the block). GiantSnowman 11:17, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Well, then, you probably shouldn't have blocked him. I'm not going to engage in an admin review here. Your attitude toward this editor has been little different to the attitude of far too many admins here, nurtured by an ethos of slackness and contempt, born out of impunity. Changing you, BWilkins, Sandstein, Kww, and the rest will probably have to wait for significant structural change, which you all will no doubt fight tooth and claw. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 11:47, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

The reviewing admin said it was not trout-worthy, make of that what you will. And you're logic is impeccable - of course four experienced admins are all at fault here rather than one editor with a track record of issues. GiantSnowman 12:21, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Sorry, you said you were possibly involved, that you asked for the block to be lifted because of those doubts. Under those circumstances, you probably shouldn't have blocked the editor in the first place.

And speaking of logic, I'd appreciate it if you'd stop pointing to adminship on the one hand and block logs on the other as if they say anything meaningful about a person's credibility or worth. I don't expect you to understand why I'd make such a request, given the milieu in which you're immersed, but I'd like you to comply, at least on my talk page.

In the reading I've done so far around this editor, it is the admins who are behaving badly. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 12:40, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Check the AE thread - I only realised I could be construed as INVOLVED after I made the block, and therefore invited it to be removed immediately on that basis - but, as it was not for another day or two, I'm happy enough to say I wasn't INVOLVED. Where have I pointed to adminship as being meaningful with regards to credibility or worth? However, I won't mention block logs again here. And as for admins behaving "badly" - which ones? Where? GiantSnowman 12:53, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

I'm not impressed with Sandstein's block for TSC's comment and reporting another editor to Sandstein's talk page. TSC obviously didn't think it was a violation. All that was needed there was an explanation. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 11:07, 2 August 2013 (UTC)

Bad behaviour? Only your negligence/arrogance regarding sources for the Beglaryan article that I mentioned above, your blocking when possibly involved, and Sandstein's behaviour I note above.

I should say I see TSC's block log notes sock-puppetry (but unfortunately doesn't link to the circumstances around that), so if that is clear then he loses a lot of cred in my book. The AA topic ban isn't a good look either. But. I've seen perfectly innocent but angry editors blocked for sock-puppetry and topic-banned. Even assuming he's a real problem (and I don't concede that because I have yet to see the evidence), there will always be problem editors to deal with. We shouldn't have to put up with problem admins though.

I guess what I'm saying is our "justice"/"social control" processes and admin-selection process are so inadequate, and the integrity and diligence of some admins is so wanting that no one can form an opinion about any situation here based on the sanctions applied or assertions made by admins - regardless of how many endorse each others' actions and views. The only valid way of forming a reliable view of any social situation here is to look at every diff.

This, in turn, is made tremendously difficult by admins' habit of neither linking to underlying causes in block logs, nor linking to relevant discussions, relevant prior sanctions, etc in block notices on the blockee's talk page.

Regarding, "Where have I pointed to adminship as being meaningful with regards to credibility or worth?" I'm referring to: "Please do not simply take the word of a disruptive user (who has caught the attention of many admins with his problematic behaviour)..." and "The reviewing admin said it was not trout-worthy, make of that what you will. And you're logic is impeccable - of course four experienced admins are all at fault here rather than one editor with a track record of issues." --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 04:46, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

So I have gone from "[a] hint [of] poor judgment" to outright negligence and arrogance? Quite a jump! GiantSnowman 08:29, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Yep. :) (That's my evolving view, the more I look at this one case.) But, you're in good company! About half of the admins I know fit that description and they're all well-meaning and generally valuable (possibly invaluable) contributors to this great project. I really don't expect you to see this as I do, and though I realise there is a likelihood you'll be offended - as BWilkins surely is - that offense is not my intention, it is, rather, an unpleasant side-effect of something I feel I must say, for the overall good of the project. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 08:54, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

Hostile frontier

Hi Anthony. You mentioned hostile frontier at Wikimania. I would like to continue our dialogue about what can be done about. This morning I've lead a discussion about adopting friendly virtual space policy. With the group that attended I will try to develop something in the coming year. I really like to get your input on your analysis of the hostile frontier. Ad Huikeshoven (talk) 08:15, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Yes. Let's chat onwiki after the conference. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 11:44, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Memento

• http://www.iasp-pain.org/AM/AMTemplate.cfm?Section=HOME&CONTENTID=7603&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm
• Sympathectomy
• http://books.google.com.au/books?id=AgNrZzBFjQsC&pg=PA213
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Chrisemcc

Source for medical claims

Hi Anthony. I noticed that you edit mostly on medical topics and remembered that you commented on the Proactiv article about the sources I used regarding the effectiveness (or lack thereof) of the product, which was a medical claim.

I guess I must have been really far off over here regarding an issue with a source for a medical claim. I've read the link UseTheCommandLine provided, but for someone with very little experience editing medical topics, it's a confusing guideline.

I was wondering if I could borrow you to educate me, so I can avoid getting barked at for not knowing my stuff in the future ;-)

I don't care to continue that string in particular, just want to make sure I use better judgement in the future. CorporateM (Talk) 00:05, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

I've put my thoughts on the article talk page. (I corrected what looks like a typo' in your opening paragraph here. Please revert me if that was impertinent.) --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 06:52, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Oops, thanks.

I'd be happy to help cleanup the article a bit, but would want to avoid the speculation that I was tampering with it in some way. Even though RTI holds no position on the issue and is not partisan in any way, such speculation being unfounded does not prevent it from being raised.

However, I don't see any issue with just leaving it on the Talk page and hopefully at some point someone will focus on this article a bit and find it useful. WP:NORUSH CorporateM (Talk) 06:57, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

That's probably the best course at this stage. It's on a lot of watchlists and will be looked at by several medical editors over the next few days.

Using primary sources in medical articles is more an art than a science. The closer you get to information that may modify health-related behaviour of patients and practitioners, the more important it is to stick to "secondary" sources, in my opinion. In this instance, the only behaviour your proposal might affect is that of public policy or public education practitioners, and at most it will persuade them to read the Squiers report. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 07:11, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I have gotten a few different opinions regarding whether RTI should be mentioned in these and I don't want to be seen as making a bunch of sneaky plugs. RTI publishes a lot of research in peer reviewed journals and the value of someone who authors reliable sources adding it to Wikipedia seems like a no-brainer.

So I suppose I could either err on the safe side and never mention them, or I could just post helpful sources on Talk with no expectation of immediate implementation and let editors do what they will. IMO I do not want to learn how to make subtle judgement calls neutrally where I have a COI, but instead should just leave it up to regular editors. CorporateM (Talk) 13:53, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

I have almost never mentioned the research team in a Wikipedia article. The only exceptions I can recall are historical landmarks such as here where I mention Merck's and Mayo Clinic's role in streptomycin testing, or occasional references to Cochrane Collaboration meta-analyses, because they are developing a reputation (though sometimes unwarranted) as the gold standard in medical evidence - and then only a couple of times.

I want to see organisations like RTI making their research known via Wikipedia, where relevant; and placing relevant studies and reviews on article talk pages seems like a reasonable way to go. Generally, "primary sources" (reports of trials, single observational studies, one-off epidemiological studies, etc.) won't be added to the article for the reasons outlined in WP:MEDRS, but there will be exceptions.

So, if a "primary source" isn't addressing or implying something about safety or efficacy, it may be worth mentioning on the relevant talk pages. If you have the opportunity to point anyone at RTI to WP:MEDRS it may help them to gain perspective on what can and can't be achieved with their work here. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 14:47, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Cool, I find it awkward to cite a study without saying who ran it, but then one of the frustrating things about having a COI when you are also a regular contributor, is you get use to (as a volunteer) just making articles the way you like it. When you have a COI, even if you are actually correct, you won't always get your way and there are a lot of psychological factors in how editors treat you, the assumptions they make, etc. The extent of involvement from RTI is as follows: I said it was a great idea, they said ok, I sent them a link where I made the post. That's pretty funny to think they would read a Wikipedia policy document though :-p (*just teasing) In the future, I'll just post the sources. CorporateM (Talk) 16:00, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Neurotomy

Hello, Anthonyhcole. I wanted to let you know that I’m proposing an article that you started, Neurotomy, for deletion because I don't think it meets our criteria for inclusion. If you don't want the article deleted:

1. edit the page
2. remove the text that looks like this: {{proposed deletion/dated...}}
3. save the page

Also, be sure to explain why you think the article should be kept in your edit summary or on the article's talk page. If you don't do so, it may be deleted later anyway.

You can leave a note on my talk page if you have questions. MrScorch6200 (talk) 05:35, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. Done. Neurotomy is a huge topic in medicine. It is covered by many textbooks, textbook chapters and peer-reviewed journal articles, so its notability per WP:GNG is beyond doubt. Yes, the first line of this stub is a definition. The first line of pretty much every medical article on this site is a definition. If your problem with the article is that it needs more work, I agree. But that's not grounds for deletion.

If you've been told by someone that definitions aren't allowed in the lede of Wikipedia articles or that a stub consisting only of a definition must be deleted, or have seen that written in a guideline, I'd appreciate it if you could let me know who said it or where you saw it. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 05:49, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

VP: page curation

You may even wish to help develop it. I don't really like doing things like this on my own, and have always had the best RfC results when they were prepared by a small team before being released for tearing to bits by the community ;) Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 14:35, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

I'd very much appreciate the opportunity to tear your ideas to pieces and drown you in self-doubt, before anyone else. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 14:45, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Name-dropped at Russavia's Commons brouhaha

Here. Essentially, Vandenburg is taking your comment and using that to conclude "that russavia didn't commission this painting". I don't think you're saying that, as it seems pretty clear to all that some form of quid pro quo took place between the two in regards to image and/or video creation and usage. If you are saying that and agreeing with Vandenbuerg's interpretation, then I'll say you're both wrong, of course. :) Tarc (talk) 15:44, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Third opinion?

Hello. You have a new message at Kudpung's talk page. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 18:42, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Hi. I see you've started an RFC. Man. There is so much reading in your required reading pack. Interesting though. It's a shame about the Foundation's "Problem? What problem?" attitude. Actually, it's a shame that important user interface issues are in the hands of people who seem to lack even a modicum of clue about anything but coding. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 09:32, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Actually, I know those people quite well, some of them right at top even personally and we get on reasonably well in spite of my constant bickering over the years. That said, they come basically in two types: those who are programmers or other functionaries who don't have a clue about editing the Wikipedia, and those who have edited so much they have forgotten what a challenge the place is to the newbies. As regards the RfC, the reading list list is long but you can be sure that most contributors won't read it. Most voters on RfC vote 'as per...' when there are enough comments to copy. Personally I'm not worried which way the RfC goes, but it's worth a try. If it doesn't get consensus, we'll simply think of something else. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 09:43, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Progress

[1] Thank you very much - I have followed your advice please view 'talk' pageHog1983 (talk) 12:27, 21 August 2013 (UTC) How long should I wait for an answer for or consensus on the issues ? Or do I make the edit in the source? thank you in advance for your help.Hog1983 (talk) 13:07, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Sorry for the continuing communication - however I have now studied the guidelines and only included mainstream sources including Brazilian Food Safety Agency and Le Monde - one editor is now starting to agree with changes - but the other vetos everything - I don't know what I can do?Hog1983 (talk) 15:02, 21 August 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hog1983 (talk • contribs)

Cool. It's all about persuasion and time, and mastery of Wikipedia policy. Every time you have a few loose minutes, read one of those policies on Squeakbox'x list on your page. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 15:09, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

see here

Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Ip_user_129.27.202.101_blitzing_wiki_with_duplicated_text --Penbat (talk) 17:03, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. I've reveerted most of today's spam, I think. [2] --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 17:26, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

You might like...

Dropping off your ideas at WP:MEDMISS. Best! Biosthmors (talk) 15:19, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Done. Good idea! --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 06:12, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Labiaplasty

FYI as you've commented on this before, but don't worry if you're busy. SlimVirgin ^(talk) 23:59, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Still quite busy IRL, but watchlisted. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 00:48, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

I saw that last night. He's a worry. I'm not well-enough across the topic to propose changes but will look carefully at any concrete proposals. PP was a good step for this contentious topic. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 06:05, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

Your free Cochrane account is on its way!

Please fill out this very short form to receive your free access to Cochrane Collaboration's library of medical reviews: Link to form.

If you have any questions, just ask me. Cheers, Ocaasi 13:21, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

Safe harbor

Re the discussion on Jimbo's talk, note that due to safe harbor provisions, the Wikimedia Foundation cannot be sued for libel. It's been tried several times (Barbara Bauer was the first), and each time the courts said that the Foundation is not responsible: only the individual editors who added the material are. Andreas JN466 20:41, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. It's gone through to the keeper now. If they took (or knowingly failed to take) an office action that resulted in or preserved defamation, they'd be vulnerable. But the issue is subject welfare, not who could get sued. We drew the short straw in the founder stakes, in terms of moral compass. His indifference to the dignity of our subjects coupled with his inability to ever admit being wrong nurtures the pathological culture of arrogance and contempt here.

Did you notice him calling for the desysopping of an admin who was (possibly a little over-) zealously upholding BLP? User:Jimbo Wales, please resign any rights you have here and stick to modelling watches and obsessively proving your perfection and infallibility.

This project is autistic/psychopathic toward its editors, readers and subjects. (I know you don't get that.) With someone like you as its figurehead, changing that ethos is much harder than it needs to be. Find something else to do, and stop pretending to speak for this project. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 08:23, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Kidnapping of Hannah Anderson

Thanks for your contribution to this discussion. Please see Talk:Kidnapping of Hannah Anderson for my proposed solution to the potential WP:BLP violation. Dwpaul (talk) 20:06, 3 September 2013 (UTC)

Well done. That was an excellent resolution. Thank you. (I have no opinion about the dog.) --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 05:51, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks. But see a new edit[3] by ThVa that introduces information (cited, but mainly to HuffPo and not necessarily RS) implying the complicity of the alleged victim, which the editor describes as "critical" to include. Dwpaul (talk) 16:36, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

I'm trying to understand what you mean with the word "but" in "but mainly to HuffPo". Despite varying opinions on the quality of that news source, it is clearly accepted and I've seen it used around Wikipedia. (Edit:) By the way, it is not I who is implying possible complicity; this comes out of the citations I added. FWIW, my personal view is that it's plausible, with no definitive evidence either way. What is definite, however, is that this information is as noteworthy as anything could possibly be in this case.ThVa (talk) 16:40, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

ThVa and Dwpaul I've reverted it for now. We have to be very careful with how we treat living persons. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 16:49, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Being careful doesn't mean taking a sledgehammer to everything I added. You should propose different wording for introducing the citations I had added, rather than removing them outright. The full truth about this case may never come out, but what is known is that there is tremendous uncertainty on the specific issue, and the article as it stands is biased in excluding this information in a targeted manner, because it implies that there is definitive consensus that she is purely a victim and blameless in this case. ThVa (talk) 17:05, 5 September 2013 (UTC)