Talk:Batman

Death of the Family

Maybe we should make an article about the Death of the Family arc. What do you say? --Leader Vladimir (talk) 16:14, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

I'd say that that would be a touch premature. There's, what, one issue out so far? I don't think that it's feasible or desirable to cover every Batman story every, and a story arc's notability can really be established until after it's completed. Euchrid (talk) 20:03, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Batgirl

Shouldn't the last paragraph of Suporting characters be changed (Other supporting characters in the Batman's world include former Batgirl Barbara Gordon....) because Barbara is currently back in the batgirl role and it has been re established that she has been the only one. So she is no longer Former — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mattythebassman (talk • contribs) 02:26, 2 February 2013 (UTC)

DoneEuchrid (talk) 12:34, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Finger or Fox?

I thought Gardner Fox wrote Batman's origin in Detective #33? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.185.3.155 (talk) 05:25, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

They're both credited, from memoryEuchrid (talk) 12:36, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

Dick Grayson

Dick Grayson is the Batman for a short amount of time while Bruce Wayne is supposedly dead. Shouldn't he be included under the alter ego section?72.74.136.49 (talk) 01:48, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

So have Jean-Paul Valley, Terry McGuinness and Damian Wayne, at one time or another. Bruce Wayne is the person most commonly assocaited with Batman, though, so I think it's appropriate for only him to be listed. The infobox displays the core elements of the character, not brief and rapidly reversed changes. Euchrid (talk) 01:54, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

I know. However, regardless of their length of time as Batman, they are still notable and should be put in the infobox. If it needs to be more noticable that the main guy is Bruce Wayne, then fine, make his name bold like the other pages on DC Comics do with the main guy. Regardless of how short their time is as Batman, they are still Batman. Zimri was king for only seven days, but he is noted as king with all of the others. We should treat the short-term Batmen the same way.72.74.136.49 (talk) 21:12, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

'who' vs 'that' in the lede

Rather than an edit war, can we please have a discussion about whether Batman should be referred to as 'who' or 'that' in the lede? My reasoning for the former is simply that it seems to be the precedent - I've looked over several significant articles about fictional characters, such as Sherlock Holmes, Superman and Robin Hood, and none of them use 'that'. If there's a policy or guideline that I'm unaware of, though, I'm happy to have it pointed out. Thanks. Euchrid (talk) 07:26, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm not aware of any guideline that says to use "that" over who, there's also the fact that various categories and lists use the word who, "fictional characters who...". WP:WAF lists many "exemplary" articles that use "who" - however, a lot of them use "he" or the character's name instead. I think that should would solve the issue.|| Tako (talk) 20:55, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Before you make me go hunting for some old and extensive discussions among WikiProject Comics members, let me point out something that WP:WAF emphasizes: "Exemplary aspects of real-world perspective include...Description of fictional characters, places and devices as objects of the narrative." Batman is not a living person. Batman is a fictional character that does not exist as a "who" in the real world. Doczilla _{@SUPERHEROLOGIST} 05:36, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Also, notice that Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Comics treats a character as a thing ("it") when listing information appropriate for the opening paragraph. Specifically see Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(comics)#Characters_2. Doczilla _{@SUPERHEROLOGIST} 05:42, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Doesn't say explicitly to use "it" or "that" and doesn't say not to use "personal words". The character might not be a "who" - but the gender of the character is still male - and therefore "he" should work fine - as in the various exemplar articles. Have you considered the fact that the "it" example in the MOS Comics is used a gender-neutral word? || Tako (talk) 05:53, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

Sigh. We've had these discussions at incredible length. Those examples are not the entire basis of what I'm saying. I just hoped it might settle things instead of me having to hunt this stuff down. Doczilla _{@SUPERHEROLOGIST} 06:02, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but when so many character articles use the personal pronoun (add Wonder Woman, Spiderman and Wolverine (comics) to those mentioned above) and none use 'it', I don't see how it can't be true that there's a significant consensus to not use that style. I'd imagine that those pages, along with Superman and Batman, would be the most-visited comic book character pages, and hence the ones most in line with consensus. Again, I'm perfectly happy to be shown a policy or guideline which says otherwise, but from my (admittedly limited) scan of pages to compare with, it would seem that if there were such a policy, most of them would be incorrect. Euchrid (talk) 07:58, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

I'm a strong supporter of the WP:WAF guideline, but I don't think it suggests we should grammatically treat fictional characters as inanimate objects; that's just not how English works. That interpretation would lead to truly absurd text: "It fights an assortment of villains assisted by its crime-fighting partner, Robin." Of course not. The only reason that sounds less glaringly wrong is because it is increasingly common to use that when referring to people, however, doing so is still widely considered an error, and should be avoided.--Trystan (talk) 15:24, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

I should note that, while I obviously prefer the more grammatically correct (in my opinion) 'who', I think that the current lede's use of 'appearing' to get around it is perfectly fine. I would have no objection to leaving it as is. Compromise is good :) Euchrid (talk) 22:53, 7 April 2013 (UTC)

"Batman's most defining characteristic"

The article says Batman's most defining characteristic is his refusal to kill. There is no citation for this. As I think many people would consider his most defining characteristic to be his lack of superpowers, this should probably be changed or at least require some sort of citation. --64.129.32.18 (talk) 21:30, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

I agree that it's a pretty vague statement, and not particularly encyclopedic. I'd be happy to see it removed, perhaps replaced with "A significant element of the character is..." Euchrid (talk) 22:56, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Copyright violation concerns

I'm not saying it is or is not a copyright violation, but I am suggesting that for legal reasons the copyright concerns should be discussed and cleared up before the text is reinserted into the article. Dougweller if you don't mind me asking, what is this edit infringing upon? - SudoGhost 10:37, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

This is at ANI now with other examples of copyvio, but the text added a month ago "Although he has no superhuman powers, Batman's unstoppable determination and strength make him an extremely formidable opponent" can be found on a number of older websites, eg [1] and see this search.[2]. Dougweller (talk) 10:51, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

Well I tried to find some reason why that wouldn't be a copyright violation, but I'm not seeing one. This article didn't include any of that text when this was apparently written, so it doesn't appear that the comicbookmovie.com article just took that content from Wikipedia. Lionhead99, it looks like that is a copyright violation and it looks like it most certainly was copy-pasted from somewhere but with very, very few changes (like changing "instill fear in others" to "infuse fear in others"). There may be a plausable explanation that I'm just not seeing, but do you have any explanation as to how that edit wouldn't be a copyright violation? If not, then the material should not be reinserted into the article per WP:COPYVIO. - SudoGhost 11:08, 29 June 2013 (UTC)

If you follow the link to Batman s mother's page it states she is of Irish descent So that would make the character of Irish descent so can someone edit that in please? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martha_Wayne

I am not sure if that is necessary, her article only briefly mentions that she was Irish Catholic and does not mention her Irish decent in the lead. Also, the fact that Batman has Irish roots is not an important aspect of his character.--70.49.82.84 (talk) 20:43, 12 July 2013 (UTC)

Zero Year article

Should we make an article about Zero Year? It's the next major Batman event that re-tells Batman's first year in Gotham. Leader Vladimir (talk) 22:58, 16 July 2013 (UTC)

Grant Morrison

Considering how much the work of Grant Morrison helped redefine the Batman franchise for DC Comics, I think a new section should be made for Grant Morrison's work in the publication history. Leader Vladimir (talk) 20:43, 5 September 2013 (UTC)

Bruce Wayne vs. Clark Kent

This article implies that 'Batman' is Bruce Wayne's 'true persona' rather than his secret identity and contrasts this by saying that 'Superman' is Clark Kent's secret identity and that his super hero persona is his mask. This is entirely unfounded in the very origins of each character. Bruce Wayne is a human and he was born on earth and he was given the name and identity of 'Bruce Wayne' when he was born, He created Batman and a means to fight crime. Bruce Wayne trained himself and created this persona in which he wears a mask and a costume to fight evil. For Superman, the opposite is true. He was born to Jor-El and Laura on Krypton and he was given the name Kal-el...he is NOT human, no matter how much he may look like us. When Kal-el came to earth upon the destruction of Krypton, Jonathan and Martha Kent, not knowing who he was or where he came from, named him Clark and raised him as their own. Later on in his life Clark become aware of his TRUE IDENTITY as 'The Last Son of Krypton'. When Clark made the decision to use his abilities that he gains as Kryptonian in the light of earth's yellow sun, he is acknowledging his true nature. The Superman costume doesn't have a mask for that very reason...'Superman' is Kal-El in all his glory...Clark Kent with his glasses and non-confrontational personality is the mask. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.83.27.223 (talk) 18:58, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Fredric Wertham

Apparently Fredric Wertham who is mentioned in the text was not a psychologist but a psychiatrist. AICrane (talk) 00:05, 6 November 2013 (UTC)