Talk:Association football

"The king sport"

Vvven added this nickname on 20 May 2013, but I am somewhat confused as to what is meant. I presume that this is a translation from a Spanish or Portuguese original, but I don't think that this is a particularly well done translation. Specifically, I am not sure if this is better rendered "the king of sports" or "the sport of kings". Does anybody know which is meant? --Khajidha (talk) 16:31, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

In Britain the "Sport of Kings" is horse racing. As this is supposed to be written in British English I would suggest removing this name, or at least made clear where it comes from. Dja1979 (talk) 03:47, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

I don't know how popular the name is in non-English speaking countries. Might be better to have the name in the original language? Cls14 (talk) 09:59, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Clarification of description needed

comment - I do not know how to undo the lock to fix some issues with this article. It notes that a goalkeeper 'is only allowed to touch the ball with his hands and arms inside his box', this is a crude description for a non soccer knowledgeable person... a better description would be that the goalkeeper is allowed to touch the ball with ANY part of his or her body inside the box, though once outside the box, regular soccer rules apply, which means even the goalkeeper cannot touch the ball with hands or arm. Just wanted to add this to help clarify soccer to the people who maybe need better clarification - and to add to the overall quality of wiki :) (BigSoc (talk) 12:27, 30 August 2013 (UTC))

FIFA =! IFAB

In the opening paragraph, football's international rulemaking body, IFAB, is parenthetically identified as FIFA. The IFAB is actually composed of 8 voting members: 4 from FIFA, and 1 apiece from the English, Scottish, Irish, and Welsh FAs. It is FIFA that puts on the World Cup. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.91.18.21 (talk) 09:02, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Football Association redirect

Football Association should not redirect to this article. The Football Association, better known as the FA, is the organisation in England that wrote down the rules of the game one hundred and fifty years ago (today) and governs the game in England. It has its own article but when you type football association in the search box it redirects to the Association Football article. Jts1882 (talk) 09:33, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

It's more complicated than that. if you type in Football Association (note the capital A) it redirects to the FA page. if you type in Football association it redirects here. => Spudgfsh (Text Me!) 09:43, 26 October 2013 (UTC)

As far as I am aware many countries governing bodies for the sport are also know as their Football Associations i.e. Polish Football Association, Cuban Football Association etc (I'm using random countries but you get my drift....). When I get time I will re-direct Football association to a disambiguation page that I'll create which lists as many of the national FA's that I can find. Cls14 (talk) 10:37, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Done Cls14 (talk) 15:09, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

• Although I agree with the creation of a standalone football association article (and moving the Football Association redirect to point there), this does mean that there are a lot of links which point to that article that really should point to The Football Association. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 16:37, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

I made a start on changing the relevant links last night. Will continue to do so. Any help by anyone would be greatly appreciated, it'll be a long job! Cls14 (talk) 10:59, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

More cites needed

I'm not sure if the article has suffered from editing creep over the years, but as a featured article there are sections of this page which either have no cites, such as "Variants and casual play", or just a single cite with entire paragraphs unreferenced. Should this not be addressed? FruitMonkey (talk) 09:20, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

...and I didn't really want to mention the dead links, but there are several dead links too. FruitMonkey (talk) 09:34, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Use of Association Football in Australia

Could the editors here take a look at Wikipedia_talk:Naming_conventions_(Football_in_Australia). There is an attempt by supporters of Australian Rules football to prevent football being called Association football as per the consensus here. Considering that the FAQ at this talk page specifically mentions Australia & Australian Rules, shouldn't we be working to prevent such inconsistency with Association football being used in Australian football articles? Thanks. Macktheknifeau (talk) 00:21, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

Yet again you are incorrectly labelling and classifying those with whom you disagree. You also failed to mention that the whole process was mediated by User:John, who is clearly NOT a supporter of Australian Rules football. HiLo48 (talk) 00:59, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

• The FAQ only mentions Aussie Rules in the context of explaining why "football" is not used for this article, i.e. because of the significant number of countries and populations where "football" has some other meaning. There is no consensus to use any one term everywhere. So you have "soccer" used in relation to the United States and Canada, and you have "football" used in relation to most (all?) European and Latin American countries. It's up to users (most likely Australian users) to figure out what the best position would be in relation to Australia. My concern is that at present there is an absurd mixture of multiple naming variations being used, and inconsistency between articles and categories. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 07:57, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

I endorse that concern, and extend it to the fact that User:Macktheknifeau has ignored a ruling in favour of the position that we "standardise on soccer on all articles pertaining to the sport in an Australian context", by unilaterally changing around a dozen articles away from that position and in the direction he personally prefers. That, and this dishonest thread here, are examples of very bad faith editing. HiLo48 (talk) 08:16, 29 March 2014 (UTC)

...for which he ended up being blocked for 48 hours. HiLo48 (talk) 07:16, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

More prominence to variants of football in the intro?

I was wondering whether it was worth writing a line in the introduction to say what makes football popular is not that everyone plays by the formal rules (as suggested), but by the fact that the simplicity of the games makes is easy to play informal/casual variants? - Master Of Ninja (talk) 08:53, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Probably true, but we would need a source to support that, at least one that meets WP:V. Walter Görlitz (talk) 13:55, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

I essentially agree. Football as it is generally played is only partially related to the codified form of the game. However, proving that with WP:RS is potentially difficult as they are so heavily weighted towards professional football. Lord Cornwallis (talk) 19:05, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

• We have a street football article, but it is very poorly sourced. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 19:09, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

I think the original question is basically - should a mention of it be included in the intro of this article? Most people's primary experience of the game is likely to be kicking a ball through a couple of shirts. However, actually demonstrating that is difficult. Obviously there is some some of a connection, as people have tied the performance of national teams to the amount of street football played in a country (whether this is actually true or not). Unless someone can produce a source its best to leave it out, but obviously it is something that should be kept in mind. Lord Cornwallis (talk) 19:25, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

If we look at online sources it might be difficult. If we look at a book or scholarly work that discusses the history of the sport, it might be easier. Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:35, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Most books about historical figures in Scottish football (Jim Baxter, Jimmy Johnstone, etc.), or the sport in Scotland generally, decry the decline of street football and "tanner ba'" players, as an explanation for why Scotland (including its club teams) has been less competitive internationally since the late 60s / early 70s. [1] [2]Jmorrison230582 (talk) 19:46, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

That's the sort of thing I had in mind. But as I say, without RS explicitly stating that it is the most popular form of the game we can't really add it it to the intro - as sound a point as it seems to anyone who is familiar with the game. Lord Cornwallis (talk) 22:34, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

soccer

soccer in the united states is a very popular sport for high-school students, but as they get older it becomes less popular. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.64.224.179 (talk) 04:19, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Etymology of "Football" and "Soccer"

Here's a good article if anyone feels like beefing up the "Etymology" section. -- 24.212.139.102 (talk) 23:52, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

Thank you heaps for that. I have been seeking precisely such an article. As an Australian, I have been involved in some very heated discussions over the name to be used in Wikipedia for the game in Australia. I am of mature years and grew up with a population of British immigrants in the couple of decades following WWII. I simply knew those people called the game "soccer", but was continually asked by younger fans for evidence, who insisted that the name "soccer" is derogatory and insulting. So, I now have evidence, for both points. Those younger fans weren't very good at explaining why the name is derogatory and insulting, but the American connection at least explains that perspective for people currently in, recently from, or currently obsessed with soccer in the UK. Fortunately, there is currently (a somewhat enforced) peace on that front in the Australian Wikipedia world. But at least I know that my memories are not yet too affected by senility. HiLo48 (talk) 00:36, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

No problem. Personally, I'd simply assumed that countries where "Soccer" is in common use are those where another (arguably) more popular variant of the game is known locally as "football", for example NFL rules in the U.S., CFL rules in Canada, and AFL rules in Australia. Rugby's an outlier in that regard, since I don't know anyone who refers to it as "(Rugby) Football". -- 24.212.139.102 (talk) 01:38, 15 June 2014 (UTC)