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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 217.42.104.153 (talk) at 20:10, 8 May 2016 (→‎Genocide: new section). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

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Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych and Russian President Dmitry Medvedev

There are about 200 presidents in the whole world, why this one is presented here? Xx236 (talk) 07:21, 14 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Xx236: I guess that president of Ukraine is depicted because Holodomor happened in Ukraine. But, it's just a guess. Vanjagenije (talk) 20:13, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think that Xx236 is referring to the rapid succession of presidents from around the time of the Orange Revolution onwards. The reconciliation process with Poland over past atrocities, just as one example, went into a complete turn around under Yanukovych. There are a lot of overlaps with Holodomor in modern politics, and these issues should probably be dealt with in that article. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 21:45, 15 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Iryna Harpy: No, he is not referring to Ukrainian presidents, he is referring to "200 presidents in the whole world". Vanjagenije (talk) 00:13, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Vanjagenije: Ah, I see. I misunderstood. Would I be correct in assuming that using both the photo of Yanukovych and Medvedev at the 75th anniversary Remembrance Day (a duplication of content in the body) right next to it is a little WP:POINTy and misleading? I'm not sure of what the content is in aid of, particularly given that Russia does not recognise Holodomor as being anything outside of being part of a broader Soviet famine. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 02:45, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
As an update, I've gone BOLD and removed both the photo and duplicated text in the body of the 'Remembrance' section for Ukraine as WP:UNDUE. There's no context for the content other than WP:OTHERSTUFF. If anything it's misleading parading Yanukovych and Medvedev as if they held a political position recognising Holodomor (in fact, it's hypocrisy that shouldn't feature). 2010 was actually the 74th anniversary, and there's nothing to make this particular commemoration more important or unique than than any subsequent ones. This is an article on 'Holodomor', not a PR piece for Yanu and the RF. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:00, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, that were good removals - I agree. My very best wishes (talk) 20:37, 17 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry for my lack of precision, I meant "not a PR piece for Yanu and the RF".Xx236 (talk) 06:59, 16 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The picture had been happily expelled from here but it recently resurfaced in Memorial in Commemoration of Famines' Victims in Ukraine.Xx236 (talk) 11:19, 30 December 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Xx236: Yes, I've seen it. I haven't had time to do more work on the series of articles surrounding Holodomor for a few weeks, but I intend to remove it from there as well. Not only does the title of that article need to be changed to reflect the 2015 change to the museum, if photographs of international ambassadors paying tribute to the victims are needed, there are other photos of dignitaries from the other side of the world available for usage. Aside from obvious factors discussed on this talk page, it also makes it promotes an understanding for the reader that it is a subject of only localised interest between Ukraine and Russia and trivialises the extent of its being an issue of global recognition to one extent or another. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:20, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]
I've just removed the image and caption in question yet again as there appeared to be a consensus for its removal. It was restored without discussion on January 31st. If there is a valid argument for the use of this image, would editors please bring their rationale for discussion before simply restoring something after a month (i.e., please follow WP:BRD). Cheers, all. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 00:31, 21 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Checked Confirmed as correct archived captures added x 2. Thanks, Cyberbot II. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:44, 25 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

File:Gareth Jones Holodomor1.jpg tagging

I was looking for a better image version and full extent version was found but it was tagged A starving child during the Famine of 1921-22, this tag comes from the Canadian Institute of Ukrainian Studies site. It looks like a reliable source, I guess. But File:Gareth Jones Holodomor1.jpg was uploaded to Commons from LiveJournal and tagged using this not so reliable source. But another one copy of this full extent image was found at Nigel Linsan Colley site tagged image "Another child victim of the famine" and image has to be made in 1934. In LinkedIn Nigel Linsan Colley tells he is 'Independent Information Services Professional'.

Prof. Roman Serbyn (University of Quebec at Montreal) article has more detail supporting 1921-22 version is here; the full set of 17 photos is described 'The 17 photographs reproduced here come from the documents of "Union international de secours aux enfants", deposited in the Canton Archives of Geneva. The sender had made a list of the pictures on a separate sheet of paper and inserted the paper in the envelope. The photographs arrived in Geneva on 5 May 1922 and the date was entered on the list.'. File:Gareth Jones Holodomor1.jpg was described 'A village boy who killed and ate his brother (guberniia or province of Zaporizhzhia).', Ukrainian description of the same image is more detailed: "Хлопець села Благовіщенка Іляріон Нищенко, що через голод убив свого 3-літнього брата і з'їв його" - A boy from village Blahovishchenka - Ilarion Nyshchenko - from starvation killed his 3 year old brother and ate him. Complete set of 17 photos were sent by International Red Cross Mission in Ukraine to the Geneva Headquarters of the "Union international de secours aux enfants".

Prof. Serbyn article is a sort of author made brief extraction from his book Roman Serbyn, Holod 1921-1923 I Ukrainska Presa V Kanadi (translation: The Famine of 1921-1923 and the Ukrainian Press in Canada), 1992, ISBN 0-9696301-0-7.

So I'm not sure with current File:Gareth Jones Holodomor1.jpg tagging. Bogomolov.PL (talk) 20:49, 10 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I've looked at the sources and, yes, just going on the Ukrainian Encyclopedia alone, I'm removing the photo based on the fact that this article is about the single event known as 'Holodomor', not about the 1921-22 famine. If there is any reasonable question mark over it, it goes. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:27, 12 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Explanation of my edit

This article is about the Holodomor. If you have references about Jewish victims of it, please list them here, bot don't discuss other crimes here.Xx236 (talk) 09:28, 2 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I believe that the edits are destructive but I'm not going to start an edit war.Xx236 (talk) 14:14, 2 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
The editor uses at least two IPs. Please register.
The only source is Himka's article of 1999. Himka has published several texts since 1999.
Trawniki men were mostly Soviet P.O.W.s , so nationalism+communism.
You are using the Holocaust to relativise the Holodomor - Eastern Ukrainian peasants starved and it was O.K. because some Western Ukrainians participated in the Holocaust several years later. It's absurd.

Xx236 (talk) 06:37, 4 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

This is the place to discuss the text, not the Edit summary field or changing IP Talk pages.06:48, 8 February 2016 (UTC)Xx236 (talk)
In 1923 Kiev had 128,041 Jews, 140,256 in 1926, and in 1939, 224,236 doesn't say anything about the Holodomor. Xx236 (talk) 06:51, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia:No original research Wikipedia summarizes existing knowledge. It's not the right place to present your opinions. The Himka's article is biased, which is written at the very beginning, it's about the collaboration, not about Ukrainians during the war. Xx236 (talk) 07:00, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for picking up on this dynamic IP's WP:POV WP:CHERRYPICKING and WP:OR again, Xx236. I hadn't caught up with the fact that the user had reverted us both again in order to introduce their unencyclopaedic WP:COATRACK. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 09:33, 8 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Cheers.—cyberbot IITalk to my owner:Online 19:57, 28 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Checked All captures redirect to 404 page. Removed as an alternative version already exists. Thanks, Cyberbot II. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 21:43, 28 February 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Genocide

How can there be any doubt that it was genocide? It was demonstrably a deliberate attempt to starve the entire population of Ukraine to death. (217.42.104.153 (talk) 20:10, 8 May 2016 (UTC))[reply]

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