User talk:Andrew Dalby

Welcome!

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Hi, Andrew, and thanks for your article about Ioannes Dukas. Could you please announce your new articles on medieval subjects at Wikipedia:WikiProject Middle Ages/New Articles? Thanks. --Ghirla ^-трёп- 06:37, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I'll do that with pleasure, Ghirla. Andrew Dalby http://perso.wanadoo.fr/dalby/ 09:25, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

And if you need to sign your name just click on the signature button in the menu above or type four tildas (~~~~). Happy edits, Ghirla ^-трёп- 11:35, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Welcome! thanks for your edits on Trobairitz. For the ones that have short passages in the main Trobairitz page, they used to have separate pages, which I then turned to redirects. I did this because I was worried there wasn't enough information to put a separate page for each of them. The point is, if you want to create larger articles for them, it might be easier for you to go into the history and revert to the longer version and modify that. Happy editing! Mak (talk) 19:00, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Hello Andrew, Virgil61 from UNRV (and wikipedia), just ran across your name and discovered you here. Thought I'd pop in and say hello, look forward to reading some of your contributions. Virgil61 16:13, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

DYK

Did you know? has been updated. A fact from the article Nicetas, Bogomil bishop, which you recently created, has been featured in that section on the Main Page. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Re: troubadours' names

On spellings of names, I agree with you that Provençal/Occitan names are much better than Frenchified ones. If I were you, I would standardize on Provençal forms wherever possible. Will do, I hope people won't have a cow about it. Thanks for the clean up of my articles, by the way. Complainer 00:55, 21 April 2006 (UTC)complainer

Whatever names are used primarily and for titling, it is important to have the various other versions (Gallicisations) somewhere in the article for searchability and comprehensiveness. Secondly, having noticed the various new Troubadour articles cropping up here and there, is there a category "Troubadours" yet? Srnec 01:55, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Other versions of names: yes, I agree, and will try always to keep it in mind! Searchability is very important. Of course, if you are aware of an alternative name that isn't currently mentioned, I'm sure you'll add it.

Categories: I introduced the category 'Occitan poets', which seemed to me to fit better with the general structure. Until somebody writes about some more recent Occitan poets, this overlaps almost totally with 'Troubadours' (though 'Troubadours' is gender-specific), because there are scarcely any named medieval Occitan poets in other genres. In addition, there are the manually maintained lists at Troubadour, Trobairitz and (for their northern French colleagues) Trouvère. But if you wanted to add a 'Troubadour' and 'Trobairitz' category, I certainly wouldn't object! Andrew Dalby 13:10, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

VandalProof 1.2 Now Available

After a lenghty, but much-needed Wikibreak, I'm happy to announce that version 1.2 of VandalProof is now available for download! Beyond fixing some of the most obnoxious bugs, like the persistent crash on start-up that many have experienced, version 1.2 also offers a wide variety of new features, including a stub-sorter, a global user whitelist and blacklist, navigational controls, and greater customization. You can find a full list of the new features here. While I believe this release to be a significant improvement over the last, it's nonetheless nowhere near the end of the line for VandalProof. Thanks to Rob Church, I now have an account on test.wikipedia.org with SysOp rights and have already been hard at work incorporating administrative tools into VandalProof, which I plan to make available in the near future. An example of one such SysOp tool that I'm working on incorporating is my simple history merge tool, which simplifies the process of performing history merges from one article into another. Anyway, if you haven't already, I'd encourage you to download and install version 1.2 and take it out for a test-drive. As always, your suggestions for improvement are always appreciated, and I hope that you will find this new version useful. Happy editing! --AmiDaniel (talk) 02:05, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Stefan Uroš I

Greetings Andrew. I didn't notice you'd removed the template before. I normally work my way through categories, so I rarely read the edit summaries. If you look at the one of the deleted (copyvio) edits [1] it mentions an operation of mines in (what is now) Montenegro, and a Montenegrin editor (User:CrnaGora) added the article to both Category:History of Montenegro and Category:Rulers of Montenegro. I simply worked my way through these categories. Of cause, Stefan Uroš I was not a ruler of Montenegro per se, but he seems to have been a ruler in what is now Montenegro. However, I'm no fundamentalist on issues such as this, so by all means, please tag the article the way you find most appropriate. In any case, the categories and stub templates should match each other to avoid further confusion. Best regards. Valentinian ^(talk) 12:26, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Valentinian. My fault -- I didn't notice I was creating a conflict between the stubs and the categories. Andrew Dalby 13:09, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Survey on the use of Latinized/Greek names for Byzantine rulers

Hi. There is a survey on the names of Byzantine rulers at Talk:Constantine XI. Maybe you are interested in.--Panairjdde 17:50, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Crusade cycle

Hey Andrew, I saw that you were adding links to Crusade cycle - are you planning on writing that article? I am trying to write one at the moment, I just haven't finished yet, but I don't want to step on your toes! Adam Bishop 18:49, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Adam, I would have done a stub but not a full article. I shall be very happy for you to write it. It's all yours! Thanks for checking. Andrew Dalby 18:55, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Behold, the link is now blue! Adam Bishop 05:30, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Survey on the use of Latinized/Greek names for Byzantine rulers Follow Up

Greetings. As a recent contributor to the survey on the names of Byzantine rulers at Talk:Constantine XI, you may be interested in the following. A mediation sought by Panairjdde resulted in the recommendation that "that proposal two from this page be implemented in the short term, until a consensus can be reached about proposal three". Accordingly, before resuming the editorial process, I am seeking feedback on whether option 2 or 3 of the former survey is more acceptable. Please state (or re-state) your opinion in the follow up survey on Talk:Constantine XI. Thank you for your time, Imladjov 14:19, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Christian of Mainz

The only details I can now provide on Christian's trip to Greece is that he went in 1170 as a representative of the Holy Roman Emperor to Manuel Comnenus. I assume it took him to Constantinople. The original reference in the article to his trip to Greece was a direct translation from the German Wiki's article. I do not know how this embassy from Barbarossa was related to the archbishop's attempts to end the papal schism (or if it was, the German may have been in error). If you find anything our, please add it. Srnec 23:01, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Srnec, I want to know more. Yes, I'll add whatever I find that's useful. Andrew Dalby 11:55, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Manuel of Thessalonica

Hi. I accidentally created a new page for Manuel under his more accurate name Manuel Komnenos Doukas without noticing that you had already created one for Manuel Ducas (the one option that I did not check). I think the informaition in the new article covers everything in the old and goes beyond it. This is why I would like to replace the contents of Manuel Ducas with a redirect to Manuel Komnenos Doukas, but I would like your consent first. Best, Imladjov 01:15, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, do it, Imladjov! You're right, the new article easily replaces the old, which was a mere stub really. Andrew Dalby 06:39, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, will do. Best, Imladjov 06:49, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Notice of arbitration

Hi! I filled an arbitration request concerning the usage of "liberation" in WP articles. If you are interested in, please add your name to the list of the involved parties and type your statement.--AndriyK 20:26, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

How did you do that note?/Where's the Archbishop?

...on the page for Conrad of Montferrat? I wanted to expand it, referring to Choniates (better source on this than Roger), but can't see how to when I went into 'Edit'. Silverwhistle 14:13, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

It's the only way I know how to do them. The text of the note appears embedded in the relevant paragraph, surrounded by ref ... /ref. At the foot of the article you type the single full word, references / (each of these surrounded by angle brackets). Open an edit page for the whole article and you'll see. Does that answer the question?

True, Nicetas has good information including the description of Conrad already quoted in the text. He should be added to the note, I agree. But Roger seems well informed on the Montferrats and includes the detail that Christian was left in Boniface's care. He also lists the three places where Christian was successively held, but since I can't interpret these names I did not include them. Can you? 1. In castello quod vocatur Sanctus Flavianus; 2. in roca Venais; 3. apud Eghependant. All the best Andrew Dalby 15:36, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

San Flaviano, Rocca Venere and Acquapendente. I've added them to Christian's article. There's info on this in Ilgen's biography of Conrad. Silverwhistle 16:50, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Falernian Wine

Thanks for the nice note. Coming from you that means a lot. As you might be able to tell, I love wine and wine history. I look forward to working with you on more articles. Agne27 14:48, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

Adding "liberation" to "Words to avoid"

I filled the proposal for Words to avoid. Please find it here. I would be thankfull for your commennts, suggestions and corrections.--AndriyK 16:16, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Agnes of France

I think that's alright...I don't use that template myself, I prefer it if people don't know what I'm watching. I like to surprise vandals! Adam Bishop 23:42, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

fr:Portail:Roumanie

Bonjour, je viens de créer le portail Roumanie. As-tu envie de participer à son élaboration et à son développement? --Defrenrokorit 22:39, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes. I don't have a lot of time, but I'll help in any way I can. Andrew Dalby 22:51, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Villehardouin

Why does the English Wiki treat "Villehardouin" as a surname in and of itself? Shouldn't it be "of Villehardouin" or "de Villehardouin"? Geoffrey of Villehardouin has the "of," but his relatives do not. The French Wiki uses "de." I can't understand this, is it common English usage, if so, I've never seen it before. Srnec 02:44, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually, Srnec, I don't understand it either. I was merely following what others had done before in the case of this particular family. If there is in fact no reason for doing it this way, it would probably be better to change the practice now than to let it spread any further! Andrew Dalby 07:04, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Accepting your point, I have now adjusted the redlinks I made. They now point to Isabella of Villehardouin and Margaret of Villehardouin, Lady of Mategrifon. I will go ahead and make stubs on these two, unless you happened to have articles ready! I have not adjusted the other Villehardouin names, e.g. William II Villehardouin, though they ought to be changed really. Andrew Dalby 17:17, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

The point was also made at Talk:Geoffrey I Villehardouin and another user couldn't understand why the articles were titled as they were. I'll probably go ahead and move them all soon. Srnec 17:23, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm. Should we call Margaret's barony Mategrifon or Akova? Choess 19:58, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it is treated as a surname sometimes, especially when they don't really have a connection to Villehardouin itself anymore. Or, this was my understanding when I created William II Villehardouin a couple of years ago. Adam Bishop 17:02, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I was wondering about that very point; also as regards the Narjot de Toucy pair that I have just written, and that's why I didn't call them "Narjot of Toucy". They are hardly "of" those obscure French places if they never went there. We come back to the insoluble naming questions (as with Byzantium) of which I had quite enough during my many years as a library cataloguer. On the whole, I am happier to leave this to those who are really interested and just try to follow what looks like sensible practice in neighbouring articles! Andrew Dalby 18:49, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Diet in Ancient Greece

Hi Andrew. I wrote some time ago an article about food in Ancient Greece (fr:Alimentation en Grèce antique), which has achieved FA status and was translated here as Diet of Ancient Greece. Unfortunately, I couldn't read your book (I still plan to buy it :-) ). Could you please read one of the two articles and tell us what you think about it? Thanks in advance, Jastrow 15:47, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks a lot for your help. I will translate your corrections and additions to the French article. I notice that you don't mention Siren feasts in User:Andrew Dalby/Bibliography and I couldn't but wonder... Jastrow 17:43, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I still agree with everything I said in Siren Feasts (at least, 99% of it)! I just haven't had cause to quote it as yet in editing Wikipedia. That's how mechanical the compilation of User:Andrew Dalby/Bibliography has been. I often see myself as a food historian, but by no means always. Indeed, when I decided on a life ambition (about 30 years ago) it was to be listed in the Dictionary of National Biography with the description "miscellaneous writer". I didn't, 30 years ago, foresee Wikipedia.

Incidentally, I'm still looking at the Diet of Ancient Greece article (which is excellent, by the way! did I say that?) and I may yet add a few more items. Feel free to disagree with me, of course. Andrew Dalby 17:58, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Please do! Btw, do you know of any ancient Greek dish? I found many allusions to products but no mention of something like the "eel à la Alcibiade" or the "Boeotian meat pie". Jastrow 19:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Jarcha, Thank you

Hello, Andrew Dalby! Thank you very much for your corrections. I have being editing in this Wikipedia for some time and it is the first time that I receive such a good help. I know that my English is not very good, but I try to do my best, because I hope what I write can be useful. Thank you again. As for the "vulgar latin", you are absolutely right. I didn´t notice that error when I revised the article. See you!--Garcilaso 15:25, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your kind message, Garcilaso. You never know, I might need your help soon if I try to edit the Spanish Wikipedia!

I added a message at Talk:Kharjah (component of muwashshah) about combining the three articles Kharja, Kharjah, Jarcha. I belive they should be combined, and my view was that the heading should be Kharja, but I am not certain, and if you disagree I shall be interested in your thoughts. I agree with you, very strongly, that they should NOT be merged with Muwashshah! Andrew Dalby 18:34, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Of course, you will have my help in Spanish Wikipedia whenever you want! You also have a message in Talk:Kharjah (component of muwashshah). As for the name Kharja or Jarcha, it is an interesting question. When Emilio García Gómez discovered the jarchas together with an Egiptian collegue, they debated that point because they were "inventing" the term. Gómez though that the transcription of the original arab characters should have the most similar sound to the original, and choosed in Spanish "Jarcha", because in Spanish J is a strong sound equivalent to arab. I think that "Kharja" is not the English pronunciation for the arab sound, but the International arab transcription of such sounds. I just don´t know how does the group "Kh" sound in English. The arab sound Ḫāʼ( ﺥ ) is like a very strong English "H". Anyway, it seems that Kharja is widely used. Just do what you think best. ¡Hasta luego!--Garcilaso 12:23, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Move request for emperors of the Palaeologus/Palaiologos dynasty

Hi. There is a move request for several Palaeologus/Palaiologos dynasty emperors at Talk:List of Byzantine Emperors. I tought you might be interested in.--Panairjdde 22:14, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

Alexander VIII

Excuseme you're right it:Agnese di Bisanzio.

Wikipedia Italiana Alexander VIII

Metayage

Hey Andrew, I would love to get your thoughts on how to maybe improve the criticism section of the Metayage article. It's taken very heavily from the 1911 encyclopedia and a book by J.Cruveilhier, Étude sur le métayage Paris (1894) and comes across with a sharp POV slant. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks! Agne27 16:53, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, Agne27, I have to bow out of this one. I feel warm towards the topic, since (to take the first two footnotes) John Crook taught me and I have translated Cato, but warmth doesn't translate into specialist knowledge. Good luck! Andrew Dalby 18:03, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Alexander VIII

Hello Andrew Tanks of your messeg, thankyou of compliments, excuseme of my english, you Know it:Bardas Sclero it:Bardas Foca?

Hello --Alexander VIII 12:33, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Agnes of France (Byzantine Empress)

Thanks Andrew. Very helpful. Wjhonson 17:53, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Byzantine debate

Andrew thanks for your contribution and initiative on the subject. Take care and if you have any further plans on the subject, please let me know and I would be glad to contribute. Dr.K. 23:19, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your reply. I look forward to seeing you in the future. It's been a real pleasure. Don't hesitate to contact me if you think I can contribute in any capacity. Take care for now. Dr.K. 14:00, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

My thanks as well for your excellent contributions, both in this debate and in general. Your contributions are appreciated. Keep up the good work. Valentinian ^(talk) 19:50, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I would agree with the moratorium as long as it returned to the status quo ante whilst this was considered and a decision made later on. As it is this seems a bit contrived since there was no consensus for the initial page moves and yet they took place. As I see it leaving the page moves as they are, albeit for a 9 month moratorium, confirms that decision. IMHO the 9 month moratorium should be used by those in favour of the ODB to prepare their case, as it where, since the onus should be on them to prove that the Komnenos spellings, etc have supplanted the Comnenus ones in general English usage. As far as I can see no-one has established that by any means and yet the pages remain on spellings which do not therefore conform to Wiki policy with regards to using the most popular terms in English. Roydosan 14:35, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Ivanko and Dobromir

Hi! I came across your articles about Ivanko and Dobromir, two of the less known medieval Bulgarian rulers. What puzzles me is the terminology you've used to refer to them: 'leader of the Vlachs and Bulgarians'... the other articles about rulers of the Second Bulgarian Empire (including the earliest) use 'of Bulgaria', which is the established way to refer to them given the name of the realm they ruled over and the specific meaning of the word Vlach then (see Kaloyan of Bulgaria#Disputed origins. Do you insist on the articles being named so, because I'd prefer them being 'of Bulgaria' to conform with all other ones. Todor→Bozhinov 19:59, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your message, Todor. I'm well aware of the political nature of this question: myself, I'm not very political! A novice Wikipedian at the time, I chose these headings (a) because I didn't feel sure that these two fellows were ever monarchs; (b) because the only primary source I knew for them, Niketas Choniates, describes them consistently as Vlachs. I added 'Bulgarians' on my own authority, because we are talking about Bulgaria, I felt it probable that Bulgarians were among their followers, I doubt whether Niketas always bothered to differentiate the two, and I am aware of arguments that Greek writers of this period may have avoided mentioning Bulgarians if they could find an alternative word. However, having looked again at Kaloyan of Bulgaria#Disputed origins, I don't quite see what you mean by "the specific meaning of the word Vlach then". Specificity seems far to seek! Anyway, looking at the matter again now:

In the case of Dobromir, I don't see anything in Niketas to connect him with the Second Bulgarian Empire at all. Perhaps there is some other source I don't know? If there isn't, perhaps "leader of the Vlachs" alone is better since that is the term for which there is evidence?

In the case of Ivanko, yes, he killed Ivan Asen I so he's in the politics of the Empire. Yes, "Ivanko of Bulgaria" would do for him, wouldn't it, since the article can make clear that his known links (such as they are) are said in the original source to be Vlach.

Don't know if that helps. Looking forward to your reply Andrew Dalby 20:47, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Ivanko is fine, but do we have to describe Dobromir that way in the title? The article name Dobromir is free, so we could have the article there, or otherwise disambiguate him as 'Dobromir (medieval leader)', etc., since ethnicity in the Middle Ages (and relying on Byzantine (i.e. foreign) chronologists, who would refer to numerous nationalities as 'Scythians' or 'barbarians' without regard to their origin) is a bit of a problem, and the term 'Vlach' further complicates things (it's true, it's nowhere near specific, don't know what I meant by this, probably that it may have had a different meaning compared to today). Of course, the current way you've chosen to name the article is absolutely OK.

Anyway, I'm not a specialist in the field, but I hope we could come up with some good solution. A user that might be able to help is Ian Mladjov, so I'd suggest that we discuss this with him too. Todor→Bozhinov 21:18, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I really don't want to be awkward. Dobromir alone would be fine. I would also be happy to hear Ian Mladjov's view (I didn't know the I was an Ian!), but please, take the action that you think best and I will not object. Andrew Dalby 08:56, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Saladin

Yeah, those edits were pretty pointless, I just reverted the whole thing. Thanks! We've had the same problem with Baibars lately too. Adam Bishop 15:05, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

19th century material included in Cato the Elder

Hello, Andrew! With respect to the 19th century material included in Cato the Elder, feel free to update any outdated language you could find (or directly, revert my edits). It would be superb to adapt the content of Smith's book into the article, but 1) Cato Major is a renowned celebrity, so he deserves a good article; 2) I lack the time for adding content to the article at a very fast rate. Again, whenever you feel the article a little (or clearly) imbalanced, revert my edits. It is always great to meet somebody interested in Cato. --Pichote 19:42, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your message, Pichote. No, I don't want to revert it. It's good material, though the 19th century English took me aback at first! I'm sure Cato would have approved of some good old-fashioned language, especially in his praise. Getting it all in there, with the references too, was an excellent step. Andrew Dalby 19:51, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Wow, the Andrew Dalby

I'm really excited to see you editing here and would like to extend a belated welcome. Dangerous Tastes was invaluable in working on black pepper (my favorite featured article) and long pepper — the tendency of most sources to conflate the two was maddening. I need to pick up Food in the Ancient World too, since it seems to show up in half the searches I do in Google Books. I hope you do more food work around here! Let me know if you need any help with anything; they were foolish enough to make me a Wikipedia administrator a while back. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 15:26, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Colóquios dos simples e drogas da India

On 28 July, 2006, Did you know? was updated with a fact from the article Colóquios dos simples e drogas da India, which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the "Did you know?" talk page.

Thanks for the contribution! It's a pleasure to see you editing around here. Take care -- Samir धर्म 04:39, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Ah yes, but you're cited in mine, so you get the better end of the symmetry. Colóquios is excellent. (And while I'm here, I might as well ask about a link disambiguation there -- is chapter 46's pepper black pepper exclusively, or does it also include capsicum?) —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 14:40, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I was checking this very point last night. The chapter does include a fourth item, canarim, and I wondered if it was a name for capsicum, but it isn't. It's some local item -- a bark I think -- on which I need to check further. So far as I can see, and disappointingly, Garcia doesn't mention capsicum at all. Thanks for the hint -- I have now disambiguated the pepper link. Andrew Dalby 14:52, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

That's interesting in a dog-that-didn't-bark kind of way. I double-checked and chiles were widespread in and around Goa by then, I think; perhaps it reveals that de Orta knew they were new-world and wasn't interested in writing about new-world species? —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 18:21, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

By chance, do you know where is physically that bust of Cato the Elder?

Hello, Andrew! A short question: would you happen to know the museum/collection where this bust/statue belongs? Maybe the British Museum? (I am deeply intrigued by its source.) Thanks in advance! -- Pichote 20:06, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Pannonian Rusyns/Muslims by nationality/Yugoslavs

Hi, can you help us settle the dispute on TALK:Pannonian Rusyns, TALK:Yugoslavs, and TALK:Muslims by nationality? Thanks. 72.144.150.20 18:31, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the articles on vida and razo! They're a big help! And thanks for the compliment on the work being done on Trobairitz. If you have any further ideas on how to improve the article, they would be greatly appreciated. Keep up the awesome work, Mak (talk) 16:00, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, if you're interested, another article I've been working on is in peer review now. The article is Concerto delle donne, and the peer review is at Wikipedia:Peer review/Concerto delle donne. I don't know how far outside your field of interest it is, but I'd really appreciate any comments you might have. Mak (talk) 19:54, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Welcome!

Welcome!

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If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask another fellow member, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome! We look forward to seeing you around! plange 15:17, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks

and thank you for fixing the entry up. This is my first real foray into editing, so I'm still rather green.

Biography Newsletter August 2006

The August 2006 issue of the Biography WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. plange 01:27, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Lord's late take on dictation

Since you said I whetted your appetite, I'll look up the reference and write you.

Giving lectures

Thank you for the short lecture you gave. As English is not my native tongue every improvement is welcome but will you please re-edit the Iman Wilkens article to how it was before you changed it? (Except for the lecture-bit of course). Regards Antiphus 18:45, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Iman (if you are Iman?), if anything I did was wrong, you can correct it yourself. You don't need me to do it for you! Isn't the Herodoteans a student society? It was when I was a member. Isn't it true about the Four Went Ways? I must admit I haven't read the book (too expensive now!), I rely only on newspaper reports at the time when it was published. Sorry if I was wrong there: I'm sure you know best. Where does the book say that Troy was? It's an interesting detail and it wasn't in the article. Best wishes Andrew Dalby 19:09, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

No I'm not Iman and I don't have any other purpose or reason for editing articles other than contributing to the global effort to find out about our history. I'm shure that the book is not too expensive for you and there must be a library near you but I am really not interested in having this conversation with you as I'm shure you're never going to read the book. I know other people like you; You read a newspaper article about some theory being (as you call it) "crackpot" and immediately you loose interest, afraid of openly showing any curiosity about the theory, scared of not being taken seriously any more by your friends and colleages. Now will you please remove the line? Regards Antiphus 19:33, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Hallo Andrew I edited the line that you put in the article myself because somehow I don't think that you're going to. Was I right about the crackpot- thing I wrote or are you really interested? If so I apologize for my reaction. The location Wilkens gives is the Gog Magog Downs. This theory is not about moving entire countries as sometimes seems to have been claimed watching the unbelief but about migration of the orally transmitted poems and locations being re-named in the Mediterranean; that's not impossible, is it? RegardsAntiphus 19:58, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

That's good, Antiphus. I was only a few miles from the truth, wasn't I? I've never in my life called anyone a crackpot, and all your guesses about me happen to be wrong (even the library)! Keep on editing Wikipedia, and so will I. Best wishes Andrew Dalby 20:10, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Hi Andrew, Thank you for editing the article (I see now it only improved) and please feel free to make me aware of any grammar or other mistake that I'll make in the future. I'm sorry for the ill-tempered guesses I made about you and if you ever need any lines translated into Dutch or have any questions in that direction don't hesitate to ask. Regards Antiphus 05:25, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you very much for that, Antiphus. I'm sorry too for mistakenly guessing that you were Iman Wilkens! His theories are really interesting, I think. Andrew Dalby 11:51, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Userboxes/Writing systems

thanks for your comment. Maybe Wikipedia:Userboxes/Writing systems can answwer the ISO conform question. I think the old grk cats still work. Of course they should be moved to Grek. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 13:25, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Tobias, I didn't know about that page till now. Andrew Dalby 19:10, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

the Template:User iso15924 is already quite good. Main missing thing is programming for the categories. If this is done, I will create new cats. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 20:01, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Since Template:User iso15924 has disappeared I've remade my own Template:User tib temporarily. Feel free to replace it again when there is something better! Andrew Dalby 09:30, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

thx for saying thank you :-). Saw you allready added a new script. Fine, so it seems not tooooo hard to edit the stuff. Only the category management via the template is not fully ready yet. Some more if/else coding is needed. But I could not easily figure out how to do it. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 00:10, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

dominic

hello. thanks for straightening out my clumsy addition of jane of aza to the dominic page. i will find out the earlist mention of jane of aza soon and pass that info along to you. i have access to the library of a convent of dominican sisters, so if anyone would know, it would be them. Hongkyongnae 14:59, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

hello again, some quick research turned this up about jane of aza. A castilian preacher named rodrigo de cerrato who had visisted caleruega shortly after 1280 described saint cominic's father as "honorable and rich among the people ofhis village." he goes on to discuss saint dominic's relatives, including jane of aza. my source for this is "Saint Dominic and his Times" by M. H. Vicaire, O.P., translated by Kathleen Pond. McGraw-Hill Book Company, 1964, p. 403. I hope that is of some help. Hongkyongnae 02:02, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, a useful pointer. I rechecked Vicaire's work, which is indeed fundamental, and have been able to specify the first source for Dominic's parents' family names, as you will see if you look again at Saint Dominic! Andrew Dalby 09:32, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

false link

for me there are two. Arbanass is not mentioned at Albanians page, so this is kind of false here. Can you write something about the Arbanasses? :-) Tobias Conradi (Talk) 19:58, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

A very good point, Tobias! I'll have a serious look at that ... Andrew Dalby 11:19, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Seljuk Turks

I'm not involved in the Turkey WikiProject, so I guess they can do whatever they want, I'm not going to change anything...that guy does have a point, the Seljuks are only marginally connected to modern Turkey, it just bothers me that the English Wikipedia is being used by non-native speakers to push various stupid agenda. Adam Bishop 14:39, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

cats for deletion

need your help at Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion/Log/2006_August_26#Category:Writing_systems_categories

pschemp just set up something for deletion without talking. Category:User Cyrl-N is heavily populated. But proably all the people in this cat are not aware of the deltion. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 01:41, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

agree with you. We should think about the levels. Currently I try to phase out some few used templates, i.e. I try to replace them with the param template. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 11:59, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

would be nice if you post a keep vote. The main point is that Fooo is not the same as Fooo-5. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 12:01, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I never proposed the whole category system for deletion, just a merging of the redundant ones if you read carefully. Tobais has taken great offence to this obviously, but having 3 cats for templates that say the same things is silly and redundant. Needless to say, since you suggested merging the templates, it is logical that you would want the categories they create to be merged. pschemp | talk 18:03, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Could you fix your comments on Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 August 26 to reflect your comments on the Templates for deletion? Unless you think the templates should be deleted and the categories that they make should be left, unused and unpopulated. pschemp | talk 19:07, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Kayah Li

would like your comment at Talk:Kayah Li. Do you think it met WP:CSD#Articles? Tobias Conradi (Talk) 15:45, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Tobias, my apologies for not replying on this before. My impression is that you had very bad luck. I have had it happen to me too, to have an article deleted as I was just about to add something useful to it. The trouble is, the rules say that this may happen. And we know there is a work-round (develop the article on a personal page, then move it into place when it's good enough). It's just that sometimes we go ahead and hope for the best ...

I'm glad they've unblocked you so quickly. Best wishes -- Andrew Dalby 13:10, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

The rules do NOT allow this. WP:CSD A1 explicitly states if there is enough conTEXT the article is not a speedy candidate. But admins repeatedly ignore this and if I ask them to undo their admin right abuses they don't. I am really annoyed that this class of admins can do this. And then I got blocked for moving a talk that I started at User_talk:Chairboy, he replied there and additionally copied the answer to my talk. I replied at both places, but then moved the talk from my page because I thought it is best to have it in the corresponding article talk. Because there it is easier for other users to get involved and also this is to seperate this talk from other talk on my page. I will write about his at User:Tobias Conradi/2006 Kayah Li incident. Tobias Conradi (Talk) 13:26, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Yes, reading through WP:CSD, the matter could have been handled differently. But at the time in question, I think honestly the article did meet the criteria for speedy deletion. That's why I personally think your experience was "very bad luck". What I hope is that it won't discourage you from all the hard work you do on Wikipedia. Andrew Dalby 14:12, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

De l'écluse

Re: your note on my talk page.

I would expect that either the indexing is on the first word in the name, which is "De", or the first meaningful word, which in this case is écluse. (The name "De l'écluse" means "Of the Lock", lock as in canal lock.)

I have been looking for a naming convention, but couldn't find any, so I let my common sense prevail. YMMV, so please revert my change if you feel you need to. --LucVerhelst 21:32, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Oops, I noticed you're French is good, that you even live in France. Hope you don't mind my translation, above. --LucVerhelst 22:11, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

See Wikipedia style guide page for this English Wikipedia, quote:

People with multiple-word last names: sorting is done on the entire last name as usually used in English, in normal order and not (for example) according to the Dutch system that puts some words like "van", "vanden", etc... after the rest of the last name. Example: [[Categorie:Nederlands voetballer|Basten van Marco]]; [[Category:A.C. Milan players|Basten, Marco van]] → [[Category:A.C. Milan players|Van Basten, Marco]]

It can hardly be more clearly stated. Notice that the Dutch ordering style is given only for example, for French names one should sort on the entire last name just as well.

I had a lengthy discussion on this topic (for Dutch ordering) two weeks ago, if you are interested on how one may tackle sorting normal/capitalized characters and special characters that do not occur in the alphabet (as in French mainly the apostrophe " ´ " in surnames and the dash " - " in firstnames), see Template talk:FOSS celeb (sections 'Alphabet sort' till 'Analphabetism' included – in particular section Alphabet sort 2 from "One more practical note:" onwards); noteworthy especially for French: best also replace every accented character by its capitalized unaccented letter before sorting (but then show the names properly with small accented letters, of course). — SomeHuman 3 Sep2006 10:08-10:53 (UTC)

Thank you both for your interesting comments. It's a very complicated issue and I shall be happy to let others worry about it -- I'm certainly not going to revert what Luc has done -- but it remains a fact, in most Wikipedia category lists containing French names with de, that the name is alphabetised under the following word, not under the de. In other words, the de is not treated as part of the surname. There are a lot of examples. And the same holds good for nearly every other English reference source containing French names. This is why you find Balzac under B, not under D. I learned this as a library cataloguer, and it remains true.

However -- this is why I draw back from the abyss -- when French names are carried into other languages (e.g. because the family has migrated), the De is thereafter often treated as the beginning of the surname, by the people themselves and by reference sources. Well, of course, Carolus Clusius or Charles de l'Ecluse is not French but Flemish ...

Best wishes to both. Andrew Dalby 12:26, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I had to think just for a fraction of a second 'Balzac, is that a de Balzac?' before it popped 'Of course, Honoré de Balzac!' – Thus I assume it's like Beethoven: the name is commonly used without a prefix, but one does not say 'Ludwig Beethoven': when the full name is used, we use the prefix. The style guide mentions this exception for Beethoven and for Montesquieu. I think on Wikipedia then, you might also order Balzac under B. (at least if in English, his name is most often shortened as such; a good rule of the thumb might be what I tried to show here: check whether a link under the shortened name ends up at the right person, if so it may not be sufficient proof, but if not so it is surely best to use normal style guide ordering). Logically, as a library cataloguer, you encountered more often such names or those of nobility (as a title and not really a name), than one would in name lists of lesser-known people, so it makes a lot of sense to put books and filing cards to those is the order of the most commonly used name. I do not know whether the lists you had found in this Wikipedia correspond to this kind of names; it was hard to find the style guide (Luc, you, and I had missed it even when looking for it, fortunately someone else pointed it out to me) and thus most lists in this encyclopedia will have been created without knowing about the guideline; an editor probably copied the style of other lists found (possibly with names like Balzac, Montesquieu, ...) and so on for later editors... But as you have indicated, for the English language Wikipedia we should best follow its style guide.

Thank you also for pointing out that Charles de l'Ecluse is taken to have been Flemish. I had encountered the name before, though only because before I created my username, I did something on external links for the article on probably the most famous scientist of my home city, Rembert Dodoens. I had assumed the translator of the 1554 Cruydeboeck to have been French. A quick glance at the latter's article shows Charles de l'Ecluse to have been more than just a translator, I'm going to read it more carefully now. Kind regards. — SomeHuman 3 Sep2006 23:51 (UTC)

fourwentways

fourwentways on internet: http://www.shelford.org/walk8.htm Regards, Antiphus 10:25, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Salve!

Iustinus Andreae salutem plurimam!

I was just googling the Latin wikipedia, looking for articles in which you were cited (because I wanted to cite you in the same format at bivaliva. Imagine my surprise when it pulled up your user page. It seems you made several contributions during my "leave of absense." It's great to see you working so closely with us! --Iustinus 06:33, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Biography Newsletter September 2006

The September 2006 issue of the Biography WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. plange 00:13, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Parry, Lord, and other

Hi Andrew. I don't have time these days to log on much so didn't see your comment on my talk page (about the "Homeric scholarship" article) until just now. Thanks for your comments there. I've posted a couple more replies on the article's discussion page, but mostly just to re-state what I think; I'll leave it there, I think.

By the way, you mentioned on my talk page your aim of "humbly and fearfully, steer[ing] all who disagree back to the texts of Parry and Lord"; oddly enough, the more I study Homer, the more I find myself being steered back towards 19th and early 20th century philology, and towards contemporary figures like Kullmann and West (even if West is wrong half the time, which he is), when I'm not reading the oldies like Lachmann. Strange but true. I wonder what that says about me. (I like to think of it as a kind of progression from my discovery of Eustathius some years ago.) Ah well. All the best, Petrouchka 09:00, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Re: Gallica

Thanks! Yes, the Gallica Rolls are good... Though I don't think they've got vol. 3 of Roger H. It wasn't up last time I looked. Silverwhistle 19:29, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

cato and plutarch

Cutting the flattery to a minimum: your work has proved invaluable on several occasions, and you were the only person I could think of who might know the answer to the question I am about to pose. I was wondering...Plutarch mentions of Cato in his life (1): "On active service, he drank nothing but water, except that occasionally when he was parched with thirst he would ask for vinegar, or when his strength was exhausted add a little wine." I wonder what else there would have been on active duty. Surely an army wouldn't have taken beer, it having far too little alcohol by volume. Would they have had juice? Milk? I appreciate your time, thanks in advance. --Josh Rocchio 15:31, 2 October 2006 (UTC), at locus melior quo me petiturus sis Ioshus ^(disp)...

Thanks alot. I will share your response at class tomorrow night. I was not the only one who wondered. That's what it seemed like to me, they would take more concentrated liquids like wine and vinegar and forage for water as they marched. As a followup, what provinces would have been most likely to have beer in abundantia? I assume certainly the northern gauls/germans would have, but who else? Thanks again.--Josh Rocchio 21:19, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

It is ambiguous, unfortunately where in Africa Cato fought. His own records are scant and exaggeratory, Plutarch's are also exaggeratory, Livy seems to know nothing about the man if you cosider the fact that he writes in the Lex Oppia episode book XXXVI (eng) that Cato's senatorial opponent quote from the Origines roughly 40 years before the Origines themselves were published, and Nepos cares more that Cato brought back Ennius than anything else. I will ask, at the same aforementioned class meeting, tomorrow, if anyone knows better where exactly he fought. It is purported, again by Plutarch, that he conquered more cities in Spain than days he spent there. He would have been in Northern Africa certainly, but not as far east as Egypt.

As far as interwikie links go, anything with a foreign syntax ie [[:xyz:blahblah]] and [http://whatever.pqr yaddayadda] (view source, I inserted <nowiki> in before the links) provided that xyz=a legitimate interwiki language code, and pqr=a valid internet suffix, will show up as blue. It is unfortunate software isn't intelligent enough to search interwiki/www to see if the page does exist. The interwiki links already show up as a slightly different shade of blue, there'es no reason that invalid pages can't show up a slightly different shade of red. One of these days... Thanks, again, Andrew.--Josh Rocchio 23:19, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Olá, Andrew!

Encontrei o link para tua página na Wikipedia em Occitano. Conheces alguma coisa daquele idioma? Eu contribuo para a oc:wiki com artigos simples, porém conheço pouco (quase nada) da língua. Podes me ajudar a revisar alguns artigos? Cumprimentos de São Paulo, Brasil João Xavier M.Santos 2a. feira, 02 de outubro de 2006.

Troy

Hello Andrew. I was glad to see you oppose to this request. Of course I'll vote against it. Could you please tell me how to go about this? Regards Antiphus 19:07, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

A Dance to the Music of Time

Good idea to add three of the most memorable characters to the list. I have taken the liberty of filling in the Key/Sources column for each, though perhaps you can improve on these. Such wonderful books . . . Balliol 22:44, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

--No problem-- I hope this is the right spot, if not, delete it.

I am not put of by this at all. I just remember my prof (and my notes) stating otherweise. My prof had said O. was on Calypso's island for 10 years and then he left. Perhaps I copied it down wrong or perhaps she was wrong. I would have consulted my book, but it was at school. I was just leaving the Odyssey to you guys. The last comment I will add is that a better word could be found than circa. Good luck. UAAC 03:16, 9 October 2006 (UTC)