Talk:List of Grand Theft Auto IV characters

Niko and Kate's relationship

I think that the reason Kate never invites Niko into her house after a successful date is more likely because she is unwilling to engage in pre-marital sex and not necessarily because she only considers him a friend. I base this on the fact that she kisses him on the cheek at one point. Grieferhate (talk) 22:09, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Niko's personality

I am seeing similarities between Niko's personality and the personality of Macbeth - the two are by far the most mature and the sanest of all the people that they interact with, have both been scarred by events in war and both feel that their spirits have been damaged beyond repair by things that they've done (Niko by his atrocities and Macbeth by the murder of the King of Scotland). While I accept that Niko is the more moral of the two, I am sure that it is worth noting. Should it be noted? Grieferhate (talk) 21:54, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi Grieferhate. I actually agree with you that there are parallels between Niko and Macbeth, however that sort of information constitutes original research unless you can find a reliable source which has drawn that conclusion. Hope that helps! -- WORMMЯOW  07:56, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I was aware of that, but I am useless when it comes to citing sources. That's why I put it in the discussion page first. Grieferhate (talk) 16:52, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

I doubt that there will be any mentions of the parallels between Niko and Macbeth on any sources, as I can see that it is hard to make the connection - I only recently made the connection myself, so it will be hard. I'm hoping that people can find anything, however. Grieferhate (talk) 18:53, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Mallorie

Her last name is wrong. It is "Bardas" in the manual, the website, AND in the actual game itself. No idea where "Ramos" comes from. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.218.184.239 (talk) 10:29, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

Character Deaths

It's quite the spoiler to tell readers not only that a character dies, but in what chapter, in the very beginning of their particular articles. This fucking thing ruined the game for me.

    Agreed.  There should be a spoiler alert.

It's Wikipedia. Every article about any work of fiction can be assumed to be full of spoilers. It's in the rules somewhere that spoilers are the default.--12.21.161.34 (talk) 16:06, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Niko's name (refactored discussion)

• Refactored from Talk:Grand Theft Auto IV/Archive 7

Where did you get "Nikolai" from? It would be "Nikola" in Yugoslavian. I haven't seen any official source say that his name is Nikolai. --nlitement ^[talk] 09:32, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

You're right nlitement. The Nikolai bit only seems to be on fan sites and the like, official sites and reliable magazines only ever call him Niko. - X201 (talk) 10:41, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

"Yugoslavian"? :P But yeah, seems like copying speculation. Emil Kastberg (talk) 13:18, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

0 hits for nikolai site:rockstargames.com. xenocidic (talk) 13:22, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

If that's true, flat out remove it and keep it out. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 17:30, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I wonder what country is he from? None of the ex-Yugoslavian countries features a double L in any word, including regular surnames. If he were really from Serbia, his name would be Nikon Belić (not Niko and definitely not Bellic, nor Bellić). However, the voice acting in Niko's mother tongue (featured in trailer #3) is so bad that I can make out only the first word (it is definitely one of the ex-Yugoslavian languages) and guess what the other word means. Admiral Norton ^(talk) 17:59, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I did notice that when I did a google search for nikolai bellic it suggested "belic". anyhow. fictional universe, take it up with Rockstar ;> xenocidic (talk) 18:07, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

I've knocked it out. No doubt the usual "but this site know everything, they talk to Rockstar" claims will arise. But something like a character name should be easily obtainable from a primary source and shouldn't need to rely on fan sites. - X201 (talk) 18:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

This is the source used on the Niko entry in the characters page for "Nikolai" Kikizo.com. Bill ^{(talk|contribs)} 18:42, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

• Consensus above is that there was no credible source as to Niko's full name. It was likely something kikizo just came up with. Until there is proper proof that his full name is "Nikolai", please stick to the facts. xenocidic (talk) 14:06, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd agree for now to leave it out. I've not seen anywhere else that has used Nikolai apart from Kikizo. While Kikizo is usually reliable, it's probably best to look at the majority of publications that don't mention the full name and be on the safe side. Bill ^{(talk|contribs)} 14:42, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Um, Kikizo pretty much say that the game calls him "Nikolai". That's why it was put into the article in the first place. .:Alex:. 18:40, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Hm, yes, Jack Thompson Goldberg calls him Nikolai. But why is the word "nikolai" completely absent from Rockstar's website? xenocidic (talk) 19:06, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Haven't gotten to the mission yet, but I'm guessing the reason Jack calls him "Nikolai" is because he's pretentious and just inferring that Niko is a short form. His name might not actually be Nikolai. Even his mother calls him "Niko" in emails. xenocidic (talk) 18:14, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

I just finished the mission, and just as I suspected, he starts off the interview saying "Niko...what's that short for, Nikolai" (niko doesn't answer one way or the other) and then he goes on to call him Nikolai for the rest of the interview even though Niko never confirmed that was his name. xenocidic (talk) 23:08, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

For the same reason Tommy Vercetti isn't called Thomas on the VC website? Well actually I'm not sure about that one. But they don't have a bio of Niko on the site come to think of it. .:Alex:. 19:48, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Niko is not Serbian! Niko is a Roman catholic name therefore that makes him Croatian. I would know I'm from yugoslavia. And by the way the voice acting is great and I understood every word said by Niko in croatian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bigwolfx (talk • contribs)

Wrong, it is already noted that he is a SERB. look at the references!

But, roman and malorie do get married in a roman catholic church. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.162.96.122 (talk) 02:44, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Isn't Niko short for Nikolai?

Isn't Niko short for Nikolai? In the interview with Tom Goldburg Tom asks the same question and then calls Niko "Nikolai" without any kind of correction. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Secondhandsmoke (talk • contribs) 04:18, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

While I'm sure that's not his real name, I still think it should be mentioned in the Tom Goldburg section. Flare13 (talk) 04:46, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Niko comes from Nikola (read: NEE-co-la), not Nikolay. Admiral Norton ^(talk) 19:50, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

And Bellic isn't pronounced "Bell-ich". So it may not mean anything. A mention about Nikolai will do fine, although I feel it may just lead to constant changing and speculation. --.:Alex:. 20:15, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

It is pronounced Bellich, because it should have been written Belić. He is a Serb and Serbs don't have a name Nikolay (Николай). Only people from Eastern Europe have the name Nikolay. Serbs, Croats etc. from former Yugoslavia and other speakers of western Slavic languages have Nikola. Admiral Norton ^(talk) 20:48, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

• His name is Niko. Adding a note that Tom Goldberg pretentiously assumed his name was Nikolai is the only place the word Nikolai should appear, unless we also include some discussion about how Kizoku (sp?) mistakenly took this to mean his name was Nikolai. –xeno (talk) 20:49, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

You're correct. Niko is short for Nikola in Croatian (Serbian shortening would be Nikon), but we don't know here did Rockstar know that the full name should be Nikola, since they messed up other areas where nationalities play a role. Anyway, I think it's best if we leave Nikolai here on the talk page. Admiral Norton ^(talk) 21:44, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Niko's nationality

Please discuss Niko's nationality somewhere within these threads. Any new threads related to his Nationality will also be refactored under this header. xenocidic ( talk ¿ review ) 14:42, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Niko (Nikola) is a serb, who speaks serbo-croat. His father was proberbly from croatia and his mother from serbia, but he grew up in serbia. At least we can be sure its yugoslavia. The verdict is out which side he fought on, probley serbian —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.211.243.161 (talk) 10:19, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Niko and Roman are Serbs. Vlad tells Mallorie during an early cut-scene in the cab office that the cousins are Serbs. The non-English language they speak is Serbo-Croat. Please amend the main page accordingly.

Duxer if you really speak croatian you should know that Niko speaks serbian in the game. at the beginning of the game when he talks to roman, roman says: it´s better than my serbian.

in the first email of Niko´s mother milica you can read: jesi li srecan u americi? what means: are you happy in america? if it would be croatian she would use the word sretan instead of srecan. this is the only sentence in all of her emails where you can recognise that her language has to be serbian.

when roman´s apartment was burned down in the game, Niko said to Roman: izvini. that means sorry. in croatian it would be the word oprosti.

and if you listen to Niko when he talks at the first two missions in the game you will hear that he speaks in ekavica. let me show to the english users what ekavica means: niko said in the game during a conversation with roman: neverovatno. this means unbelievable. in croatian it would be nevjerovatno. you see the croatians use ijekavica, the serbians ekavica. ijekavica means that in some words the letter j or ij is used. in the serbian variant those letters are not used in the same words.

other examples: croatian: mlijeko, serbian: mleko. croatian: vjetar, serbian: vetar.

ok that proves that niko bellic, his cousin and his mother speak serbian.

but it is not proven that niko is from serbia or was born in serbia. the game does not tell these informations. in the game the word balkans is mostly used for niko´s origin. there are many dialouges with the characters which prove that. in the LCPD criminal profile database niko´s and roman´s birthplaces are unknown. but you can see all birthplaces from the other characters in this database.

they often talk in the game about the war where niko took part in. it is never said if this war was in bosnia or in croatia. it is never said who where niko´s enemies in this war. it was never said on which side niko fought in the war. we all know that niko has to be from bosnia, serbia or croatia. but there is no reference officially from rockstargames where he really comes from. we can only say that he is from the balkans or we can say that he is from former yugoslavia. and please croatian and serbian nationalists stop editing the article without any officially references. Dave Galesh (talk) 14:39, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Niko Bellic was born in Croatia

Hello! I would just like to report that it was confiermd by Rockstargames that Niko Bellic was born in Croatia. They also speek CROATIAN in game. Here is the link: http://kezins.com/2008/05/09/behind-the-game-niko-bellic-before-gta-iv/ Duxer (talk) 21:32, 20 May 2008 (UTC)Duxer

Doesn't meet Wikipedia's criteria for reliable sources. xenocidic ( talk ¿ review ) 21:35, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

It was not confirmed that he was born in Serbia and there is no source about it at all. Only speculations.Duxer (talk) 22:20, 20 May 2008 (UTC)Duxer

Niko is a Serbian

Hi, as I can see there was some arguing about Niko's nationality. I first he was Russian but then I found that on many places it is said that he is a Serbian.

Here are some links to be added by someone that can edit. Please add them so there is less confusion. Thanks

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24356918/

In this site it is said <Niko Bellic, a merchant mariner and Serbian vet of the Bosnian civil war, arrives in Liberty City aboard a freighter ship.>

http://kotaku.com/384421/grand-theft-auto-iv-review-life-liberty-city-and-the-pursuit-of-happiness

<In it, damaged goods Serbian war vet Niko Bellic ventures to Liberty City in search of closure, all the while coming to terms with the harsh realities of The American Dream.>

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology/gamezone/2008/04/29/grand-theft-auto-iv-89520-20399274/

<This time around you take the role of former soldier Niko Bellic, a Serbian immigrant who is lured into Liberty City's underworld by his shady cousin Roman, falsely promising wealth and women.>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/apr/29/grandtheftauto?gusrc=rss&feed=technology

<Lead character Niko Bellic is a Serbian national with a violent military past who arrives in Liberty City via a rusted container ship.>

I suspect he is more Croatian than Serbian. Both were involved in the Bosnian war, but Niko is a common Croatian name. Bellic means "Warlike" in latin, so its more likely in a country with an influence from Rome. This fits well with the Croatian theory. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.112.144.129 (talk) 00:56, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

On the contrary I suspect that he is more Serbian than Croatian. Belic would come from the slavic word belo meaning white. Also Niko could be short for Nikola. In Serbia almost everyone goes by a shortened name, especially in familiar relationships. Also in the introduction he says "Zdravo Burazeru" which would translate to "Hello (or greetings) Brother" in serbo-croatian, and I believe this term is more commonly used in Serbia rather that Croatia. Although all this information would equally suggest origin from any ex-yugoslavian country, I am told that he mentions Serbian and is referred to as a Serb throughout the game. This information would conclude this discussion, however, it is yet to be cited. Mstank (talk) 08:10, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Within the first couple of hours Niko does say a few phrases in Serbo-Croatian ("Zdravo burazeru", "kaži mi da da" - second mission, and a few more). The opening "burazeru" phrase is Serbian, that word is not used in Croatia, so to me Niko comes across as Serbian. 67.160.46.248 (talk) 08:59, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, he's Serbian (see [1] and [2]. I've updated the section. Neıl ☎ 10:56, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Either Rockstar people intentionally wanted to make Niko a mix of nationality, or they just didn't care and ended up confusing everyone. Niko's mother is Milica, which makes her 100% Serbian, in addition to using a word 'srecan' which Croats generally don't use. OTOH, Niko's cousin's name Roman sounds more Croatian than Serbian, but that name is very rare in that part of the world anyway. Then, Niko fought together with a guy called Florian. To find a guy named Florian in any of the Serbian military or paramilitary forces is as likely as to find Jacob Goldberg in the Gestapo Central Command. That just doesn't happen. The only consistent background story I could come up with all that being said is that Niko is from an ethnically mixed family, his father being Croatian and his mother Serbian, and he ended up fighting for the Croatian side. That would make his character even more complex because he ended up fighting in a war where he doesn't really belong to either side. 192.91.75.29 (talk) 02:22, 23 May 2008 (UTC) sascha

Roman and Niko speak Serbian (game reference and more), any more questions? Niko participated in the war even though Niko could have made the choice of going along with Roman to America. He surely must have some kind of love for his country when he went to war. If he were Croatian, he would speak Croatian, not Serbian. If he were Serbian, he would speak Serbian, whether there is love or not. Names don't say much, especially if you consider that a guy named Florian fought in the Balkans. Very strange, so it's better to forget the names I guess. Mallerd (talk) 23:34, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Why does he have to be either? I don't know if you noticed, but Liberty City is not a real city. He is a fictional character, and unless the creators of that fictional character specify his nationality we cannot. It is quite possible that his comes from Wibble, a place that is similar to Serbia, but it slightly smaller. Stop trying to fit the real world into fiction. --WORM | MЯOW 08:32, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

You know better than that. Mallerd (talk) 08:34, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Niko is Serbian

I think, Niko is a serb. I have found two references. They show that Niko is a serb [3] and [4]. Sorry, the references are in the German language. This is because I live in Switzerland and I am a serb too. In the first reference stand, that he is serb and he has fought in the Yugoslav wars. In the second reference stand, that he is serb. I can find some references to show, that Niko is a serbian, but I think two references are enough to show that he is serb. Niko could be short for Nikola and in the introduction he says "Zdravo Burazeru" which would translate to "Hello Brother" in serbian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.226.64.229 (talk) 18:34, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

And if the email his mother sent to him still doesn't convince someone.. ugh. --nlitement ^[talk] 12:51, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Which email are you talking about nlitement? I went over all the emails from Niko's mom and didn't see any mention of Serbia. xenocidic ( talk ¿ review ) 23:18, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Enough references of his origin??

Some links showing Niko is a Serbian:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24356918/ "Niko Bellic, a merchant mariner and Serbian vet of the Bosnian civil war"

http://kotaku.com/384421/grand-theft-auto-iv-review-life-liberty-city-and-the-pursuit-of-happiness "In it, damaged goods Serbian war vet Niko Bellic ventures to Liberty City in search of closure"

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/technology/gamezone/2008/04/29/grand-theft-auto-iv-89520-20399274/ "This time around you take the role of former soldier Niko Bellic, a Serbian immigrant who is lured into Liberty City's underworld"

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/apr/29/grandtheftauto?gusrc=rss&feed=technology "Lead character Niko Bellic is a Serbian national with a violent military past who arrives in Liberty City via a rusted container ship."

http://www.gamekult.com/tout/jeux/fiches/J000074918_test.html "clandestin serbe" In French

http://www.actiontrip.com/reviews/360/grandtheftautoiv.phtml?2656 "immigrant (evidently Serbian)"

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080429/gta_iv_080429/20080429?hub=World "The game tells the story of Niko Bellic, an immigrant from Serbia who comes to Liberty City (a stand-in for New York)"

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2008/04/29/0329grandtheftauto.html "This installment features shadowy Serbian War veteran Niko Bellic"

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-rutten30apr30,0,5577860.column "In this case, the story of a former Serbian militiaman"

http://dcist.com/2008/04/29/gamers_line_for.php "follows a Serbian immigrant"

http://www.portlandmercury.com/portland/Content?oid=764682&category=33187 "a Serbian immigrant hungry for a slice of the American Dream"

http://www.thestar.com/entertainment/article/421141 "Niko Bellic, less than two days off the boat from Serbia, is going on his first American date."

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=559596 "— Niko Bellic — a Serbian who fought in the Balkan conflict as a teenager"

http://www.gameindustry.com/review/item.asp?id=959 "Being a Serbian immigrant, he arrives by boat to Liberty City to meet up with his cousin, Roman"

http://www.wired.com/gaming/gamingreviews/commentary/games/2008/05/gamesfrontiers_0502 "In GTA IV you play as Niko Bellic, a just-off-the-boat Serbian immigrant who is scarred by his experience in the Balkan wars."

http://www.hartfordadvocate.com/article.cfm?aid=7713 "A Serbian war veteran"

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-rutten30apr30,0,5577860.column "In this case, the story of a former Serbian militiaman"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1924976/Just-a-game-Or-a-danger-to-young-minds.html "game in which a Serbian soldier called Niko Bellic arrives in Liberty City"

http://blog.play3-live.com/ratch/post/2008/05/06/Test-GTA-IV "se cache un Serbe qui a fait la guerre" and "notre Serbe"

http://www.xbox-360.fr/articles/visutest-xbox360__149__grand-theft-auto-iv__.html "Niko Bellic, réfugié serbe

--As for the pigeons... Why they did not put the HIDDEN PACKAGES and put PIGEONS is might be because as Niko is a Serbian and he hates Albanians which are represented as pigeons in Serbia. So he kills them....

--The language spoken in the game is SERBIAN

--http://www.photorola.net/uploads/2cf46a73a6.jpg "Actual footage in the game of Roman saying Serbian (language)"

---he receive from his mother is written in Ekavski (Serbian)—Preceding unsigned comment added by Nexm0d (talk • contribs) 12:57, May 13, 2008

Niko is from the balkans or former yugoslavia

[quote]He says "Zdravo Burazeru" which means "Hi, brother" when he talks with Roman, also when asked if he has forgotten their language, he says his language is "Serbian". When you talk with the hitman Eddie, Eddie asks "Where are you from? Balkans, Bosnia, Serb?" Niko replies: "You're a smart guy". His mother Milica (Serb name) sends emails in the Serbian language. MSNBC: "Niko is a Serbian veteran in the Bosnian war" BradyGames: "Niko is a Serb immigrant". Rockstar Games: "He is NOT Russian", In Game: "Im not Russian", "My language is Serb" Roman is called SERB by his friends. He has feuds with the Albanians, because of the Kosovo War. -User:Nexm0d[/quote]

Thats not correct. eddie asks: where is your accent from? romania? bulgaria? balkans? and niko answers: you´re a smart guy. roman has never been called a serb. he has been called a serf by vlad. play the game with subtitles. and roman had problems with the albanians because of his debts. kosovo war has nothing to do with this. in the game it is never said that niko is from serbia. they allways say that he is slavic or from the balkans. sometimes they say mediterranian guy. and he was in the war. so he can be from serbia, croatia and bosnia. you see people they don´t tell it in the game. but niko is still speaking serbian, not croatian. but he has to speak in one of those languages, that doesn´t mean that he is from serbia. if he would speak pure croatian that wouldn´t mean that he has to be from croatia. they let it open from which of these countries he really is. it would be only correct if you say that niko is from the balkans or from former yugoslavia. it is never said in which war he was, in the bosnian or in the croatian war. this has to be changed. it is wrong to look at news on the internet to prove where he is from. you can only find that out by playing the game. and the game don´t want to tell it. rockstars also never said it officially. so let him be what he is, from the balkans or former yugoslavia. talking about croatia, serbia or bosnia alone is wrong. and it should be said that he was in the yugoslavian war, because we don´t know if he was in bosnia or in croatia in the war. we only know trough the game that the war was in the balkans from 1991 to 1995. Dave Galesh (talk) 19:03, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Despite this, you don't have a reference, unlike the above section, which means the game probably identifies him as serbian. Flare13 (talk) 04:46, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Niko Bellic

in the LCPD criminal prifle database you can see the birthplace from all characters in the game. but niko´s and roman´s birthplaces are still unknown.

packie asks niko during a dialouge: have you still contact to people back there in... whatever? and niko answers him, but he does not say where he comes from. it is never said in the game where he really comes from.

through the game you even know that niko´s friend hossan is from egypt. they would tell it also if niko is from serbia, but they don´t. change this fact. niko is from the balkans or former yugoslavia.

and we don´t know that he was in the bosnian war, he could also be in the croatian war. you have to write that he was in the balkan war or yugoslavian war.

the language he speaks in the game is serbian, that´s correct. so you can only say that he is from the balkans, probably serbia. but to say that it is a fact that he is from serbia and was in the bosnian war is not correct. the game does not tell us this. Dave Galesh (talk) 12:42, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

But references do, and until you can find one that agrees with you, this information is unsuitable. Games do not always agree with facts, just the information submitted. Flare13 (talk) 17:52, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

usually in references like those there are many uncorrect facts. only the game can tell us where niko is from. or rockstars can tell it. all other sources can´t prove anything.

let us look at this article about toni cipriani here on wikipedia:

Antonio "Toni" Cipriani is a fictional character in the Grand Theft Auto video game series. He appeared in Grand Theft Auto III (GTA III) as a non-player character, and the playable protagonist of Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories (GTA: LCS). Toni is the Caporegime of the Leone family of the Liberty City Mafia, working directly for Don Salvatore Leone. Toni lives in Liberty City, and has a mother, Momma Cipriani (known also as Ma Cipriani in GTA: LCS). Toni's complete first name, Antonio, was not suggested until GTA:LCS. Toni is also called Anthony on some occasions. His mother is from Florence (mentioned in GTA III) and his father is Sicilian-American (mentioned in GTA: LCS.).

all facts about his origin were mentioned in the game. so we don´t need to discus about that.

now the article about niko bellic:

Niko Bellic is a fictional character in the Grand Theft Auto video game series. He is the main protagonist and playable character of Grand Theft Auto IV. He is 30-years old, between 5’11” and 6’2” (1,80-1,88 m) and is 190-200 lbs (86-90 kg), of Croatian origin.(mentioned nowhere in any GTA game)[4]

Niko grew up in war-torn Yugoslavia [5]. Niko's father was a bully who never believed in him, but his mother was very caring and felt sad that a decent person like Niko had to grow up in such a harsh place. Niko fought in the Bosnian War on the Serbian side(mentioned nowhere in any GTA game)[5] as an "angry" teenager. He witnessed and committed numerous atrocities which deeply affected him, giving him a cynical view on life and serious feelings of regret and depression as he got older. A defining moment in the war for Niko was when his army unit of fifteen young men (including him) were ambushed by the enemy. Niko barely escaped with his life, but most of his friends were killed - he later discovered that two others also survived. Realizing that one of them tipped the enemy off to their location, Niko vowed to track down the culprit, not solely on revenge, but because he needed closure and that doing so would put his demons to rest.

someone changed the serbian origin now to croatian origin. both are wrong.

and about niko´s name, his name is not nikolai. and niko is not a shortcut for any other name. on many parts of the game some characters call him russian. mr. goldburg also thought that he was russian and because of that he called him nikolai.

i saw on the article of nikos mother that she send him emails in croatian language. thats wrong. the language was serbian. she wrote: jesi li srecan u americi etc. croatian would be: jesi li sretan u americi etc.

the only difference is the word srecan/sretan what means happy. and niko himself speaks serbian in the game. it was also mentioned by the game itself that he speaks serbian. Dave Galesh (talk) 23:09, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Case closed - "Eastern European" (unspecified) - from the horses mouth

Sam Houser , actually, EGM, March 2008( I believe) see page 46,

“ As executive producer of the series, he's got a lot to say about GTA4, of course--about ... its main character of unspecific Eastern European ethnicity... ”

and later , page 47

“ This immigrant from Eastern Europe, hardened from the conflicts there, has been lured to America by his cousin... ”

and finally, page 54

“ GTA3 had a main character with no name. GTA4's main character is a man with no country. Liberty City's residents label Niko with slanderous titles like "that Polack" or "that Slavic drug dealer." He just smirks or offers a noncomittal grunt. "He's from that gray part of broken-down Eastern Europe, a war-torn area," says Houser. "[He's] a guy like you and me who just did what he had to do to fend for himself. ”

.

Can we put this one to rest, and call him Eastern European? xenocidic ( talk ¿ review ) 16:56, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Sure, a guy from Romania who speaks Serbian...anyway, Jacob is supposedly of Jamaican descend if you put it that way. It's actually never mentioned that he is from Jamaica (West Indian), but he speaks Rastafarian English. Based on that, the article mentions "Jamaican arms dealer". That's ok, but Niko's not? Bullshit. Mallerd (talk) 08:39, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

stop changing Niko's nationality!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok, what is this childish game of changing his nationality over and over!!!? He is Serbian and just someone LOCK THAT so it can't be changed.

Go here :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBeLhkKqZPg

You have MORE THEN ENOUGH sources, even a picture from the game and at the end, Michael Hollick (!!!THE GUY THAT WORK FOR ROCKSTARS DOING NIKO'S VOICE!!!) talks on the radio and says Serbian, then you hear: "Thats how he talks, he is From Serbia"

Stop changing it people! And no, I am not from Serbia if some of you think thats why I want it changed! I am Canadian! So people we know some of you had wars in the Balkans but damn, stop being so stubborn and leave Niko's nationality to SERBIAN!!!

""All of the words are pure Croatian words except "srecan" which means "happy" "" Guy, ALL those words are pure Serbian (ITS THE SAME AS CROATIAN ONLY SOME WORDS ARE CHANGED, like in this case you mean "srecan" therefore the email can be seen as 80% Croatian but 100% Serbian so its SERBIAN. And as I can see on the internet, Milica is a common Serbian name.

"Nadam se dasi srecan u Americi" the email ---> "I hope you are happy in America"

Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sorny111 (talk • contribs) 20:16, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Please refer to the consensus/compromised already reached. According to Sam Houser, Niko's nationality is intentionally grey. xenocidic ( talk ¿ review ) 20:20, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Where can I found the "Sam Houser , actually, EGM, March 2008( I believe) see page 46," ???

Correct. There's scan available on the interwebz, though I shalln't link them here for obvious reasons. xenocidic ( talk ¿ review ) 20:36, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Whats interwebz? Why can't you put a link to the site where that is said? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sorny111 (talk • contribs) 02:49, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Copyright violations and whatnot. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 04:28, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Here's another link to the radio interview with Michael Hollick: [5] (The guy who did Niko's voice and mo-cap). He clearly states that Niko is Serbian. Case closed.

Michael only mentions - "When they asked for a Serbian dialect..." ...that's IT! - Thats all he himself, says!

Later on, after a Niko Bellic 'impression' from Michael, The interviewer... (After realizing Niko speaks some Serbian, he assumes he is from Serbia.)... says -

"Hahahaha... that's how he would say it, He's from Serbia, haha" (quickly after a long laugh)...

Although Michael NEVER confirms this. He's too busy laughing. He never actually goes into his full flooded ethnicity or gets a chance to say "He is from Serbia" or "He isn't from Serbia, he just uses the dialect as his main language."

(Bosnia & Croatia has Serbian as one of their main languages.)

HE NEVER SAYS ANYTHING ABOUT HIS ETHNICITY. So how is it case closed?????

Anyone who listens to the WHOLE thing, or at least until 22:00 in when Michael leaves, will realize this. Klptyzm, for shame.

Someone needs to change it back to Eastern European or Balkan ethnicity, as this is not valid evidence of anything. Sam Houser's word deserves the most precedence as of yet. Jas315 (talk) 14:44, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

All this can be solved by just attributing the claims to the sources. If Houser said "Eastern European", put "Houser described Bellic as Eastern European" in the article. If Seth Schiesel of The New York Times said "Serbian"[6], put "Seth Schiesel of The New York Times described Bellic as Serbian." Or you could write "Various sources have describe the character as Eastern European[1][2][3], with some sources describing the character as Serbian[1][2][3]." That's it. The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. You don't have keep arguing over whether Bellic is *truly* Serbian or not, you just have to repeat what's already been published. --Pixelface (talk) 16:09, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

I think this is an even better solution than the compromise I proposed above. xenocidic (talk) 18:28, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

That would just be downright messy. How can you seriously take the word of New York Times seriously?... wouldn't you think Seth was just feeding off claims and assumptions from some guy in a MSNBC deskchair?... Sam Houser's word should be the last until Rockstar says otherwise. Until then, he is intentionally as Houser said, a man with no country & a Eastern European. This isn't a scrapbook guys, it's WIKIPEDIA. There's no need to list every single say in the world, while the high order has already spoken. Leave it at that. Why contest? - All of these proposed arguements are as valid as Niko being a "Polak"...

IGN claimed he was Russian a while back. All hail the Russian Niko Bellic. (Not)... valid or not, as of yet, Rockstar's word should be the last. Jas315 (talk) 19:10, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

If you look further up this thread, you'll see multiple sources described the character as Serbian: MSNBC, The Mirror, The Guardian, CTV.CA, The Palm Beach Post, Los Angeles Times, The Portland Mercury, Toronto Star, Wired, Hartford Advocate, and The Daily Telegraph — in addition to The New York Timies. Sam Houser's word should be the last? We don't only put statements by Rockstar in the article. You're ignoring that a character can be Eastern European *and* Serbian. Unless Houser said the character is *not* Serbian, I don't see how this is an issue. How does what Sam Houser said contradict what all those other sources said? Are their sources that say the character is not Serbian? You're saying the "man with no country" quote contradicts all the other sources? The character is an immigrant to a new country. The term "Serbian" can refer to an ethnicity or a citizen of the country Serbia. If IGN described the character as Russian before the game came out, I'd look and see how they described the character after the game came out. You could even mention they described the character as Russian. Personally, I think the Niko Bellic section should start off like this:

Niko Bellic is a fictional character in the Grand Theft Auto video game series and is the main protagonist and playable character of Grand Theft Auto IV. In the March 2008 issue of EGM magazine, Crispin Boyer wrote the character is "of unspecific Eastern European ethnicity."[1] In the same issue, Sam Houser of Rockstar Games said, "He's from that gray part of broken-down Eastern Europe, a war-torn area."[1] Multiple sources have described the character as "Serbian."[7][8][9][10][11][12][13][14][15] In an interview on WJFK-FM, the voice of Bellic, Michael Hollick, said "they asked for a Serbian dialect."[16]

In the radio interview, it's soon after the 7:00 mark. I think that's the most neutral way of presenting the information. --Pixelface (talk) 16:32, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I'm with Pixel on this one. While my previous attempt to resolve this conflict was done with good intentions, I see how this new proposal is more neutral and accurately reflects the various discrepancies and confusion as to his ethnicity/nationality/what-country-he-camed-from. (I wouldn't use all eleven nine sources, just the most reliable and persuasive ones) xenocidic (talk) 16:36, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I removed the palmbeachpost url in my suggestion above because Kelly Wolfe of The Palm Beach Post wrote "Serbian War veteran Niko Bellic", not "Serbian war veteran." I also removed a duplicate latimes url. So of those 9 sources, Scott Taves of MSNBC wrote "Niko Bellic, a merchant mariner and Serbian vet of the Bosnian civil war...", Kevin Lynch of The Mirror wrote "former soldier Niko Bellic, a Serbian immigrant...", Keith Stuart of The Guardian wrote "Bellic is a Serbian national with a violent military past", the CTV.ca news staff wrote "Niko Bellic, an immigrant from Serbia", Tim Rutten of the Los Angeles Times used the terms "a former Serbian militiaman" and "Balkan protagonist", Earnest Cavalli of The Portland Mercury wrote "a Serbian immigrant", Darren Zenko of the Toronto Star wrote "Niko Bellic, less than two days off the boat from Serbia...", Clive Thompson of Wired wrote "Niko Bellic, a just-off-the-boat Serbian immigrant who is scarred by his experience in the Balkan wars", Anthony Horowitz wrote in The Daily Telegraph "a Serbian soldier called Niko Bellic." And Seth Schiesel of The New York Times wrote "Niko is a war-scarred Serbian." Two of those sources say "from Serbia", but the others say "Serbian." I think it would be fine to cut it down to the MSNBC, The Guardian, Los Angeles Times, Wired, The Daily Telgraph, and The New York Times sources. Please note I'm not saying the character *is* Serbian (ethnicity or nationality), just that the article can say multiple sources have described the character as Serbian. Thanks to Nexm0d for linking to those sources on this talk page. --Pixelface (talk) 18:53, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, proceed with the changes you proposed (or I will when I get time) - though I'm still curious what these reporters are basing their assertion that he is Serbian upon. (as I've stated somewhere else, it's likely they all just fed off one person who said he was Serbian). However, per your argument that all views available (again, we don't necessarily need to print all 9 refs) from reliable sources should be presented, we should note that many outlets are calling him Serbian, as well as that Sam Houser stated he was "in that gray area of Eastern Europe". xenocidic (talk) 18:58, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

I am supporting that "we should note that many outlets are calling him Serbian". We should say that Niko is called as being Serbian by most of the sources, which is true, and we don't need to put "Niko Bellic is a Serbian". I personally think that is the best solution.... but you people see what you want to do. And the argument of man with no country, it might simply be because Yugoslavia collapsed and after that some people did got no new passports at all for the new-born countries. Anyway, of course that is just an intuition, nothing concrete. I agree with the:

Niko Bellic is a fictional character in the Grand Theft Auto video game series and is the main protagonist and playable character of Grand Theft Auto IV. In the March 2008 issue of EGM magazine, Crispin Boyer wrote the character is "of unspecific Eastern European ethnicity."[1] In the same issue, Sam Houser of Rockstar Games said, "He's from that gray part of broken-down Eastern Europe, a war-torn area."[1] Multiple sources have described the character as "Serbian."[17][18][19][20][21][22][23][24][25] In an interview on WJFK-FM, the voice of Bellic, Michael Hollick, said "they asked for a Serbian dialect."[26]

It is the best thing so far I would say. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sorny111 (talk • contribs) 04:43, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

So why wouldn't anyone change this? And put what Pixel wrote (it's the most neutral and accurate). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sorny111 (talk • contribs) 16:59, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Someone put this, its been a long time and its the best solution. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sorny111 (talk • contribs) 18:06, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Niko´s country

i´m no too sure but I think that Niko is russian he have a russian acent.In some ocassions he says the he isn´t russian , but I don´t think that someone will say that is from Rusia in the U.S. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Senzao (talk • contribs) 04:51, June 1, 2008 (UTC)

See above. xenocidic (talk) 05:12, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

In a conversation with McReary (I think it was him) he asked Niko if he was from Russia. Niko replies angrily no. It says so right in the game!Sage1989 (talk) 13:45, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Niko is Serb which probably lived in Boka Kotorska (today Montenegro) bay or Dubrovnik (Croatia). Before the war started many Serbs lived in Dubrovnik area.

Yeah, even more Serbs lived in Serbia. Mallerd (talk) 08:40, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

`Niko` is short of `Nikola` (not Nikolai) which is characteristic serbian name (there is NO Croat with that name). Also his mother name is `Milica` which is also typical serbian female name. Other arguments you can read below.

P.S. `Belic` leads for serbian surname. If that would be a Croat his name would be Bjelic (Byelic) and if he would be Montenigrian his name would be Bijelic (Biyelic). Niko is Serb, guys.--79.101.211.235 (talk) 13:29, 3 June 2008 (UTC)—Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.101.211.235 (talk) 13:26, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Use the Facts

Again, use the facts provided bu the game developers and spokespersons to determine his background. Sam Houser stated he is from a war-torn area, which in the Balkans is Bosnia obviously. Then thelanguage, all three languages (Bosnian, Serbian and Croatian) are very similar the accent is pretty good for a person from that region. His last name I believe is from Serbian ancestry. He was also involved in the Bosnian war. So I conluded that he must be a Serb from Bosnia. or Bosnian-Serb

Does it matter?

Does it really matter? The fact of the game is that Niko is Yugoslavian, fought in the Bosnian war, committed and witnessed many atrocities that scarred him for life, lost his friends to a traitor, moves to America and the game unfolds. It doesn't matter which side he fought on - he is not describing the atrocities of one nation, he is describing the atrocities of war as a whole. His language is Serbo-Croatian, so it could be any of those two countries in Yugoslavia, but it doesn't matter. I think that it is best to just say that he's Yugoslavian. 86.130.230.187 (talk) 01:10, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree, does it actually matter? just play the game and get on with it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.6.210.198 (talk) 04:12, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

It doesnt matter!But his mother names is Mlilica.Serbian name.Full stop. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ivica4 (talk • contribs) 19:46, 22 December 2008 (UTC) Why is it so hard to understand that the creators said he is a man without a country? Him speaking a language does not mean that is the country he is from. They left it open ended very intentionally. Posting his country of origin would be like posting the meaning of the end of american psycho on its article, there is no way to do it without doing OR.Derelix (talk) 20:45, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

spoilers

I just wanted to read on a few characters' backstories but it immediately tells you if and when they die. Could there at least be a spoiler alert? (talk) 17:51, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not censored and doesn't do spoiler warnings anymore, sorry. It must be said that reading the sections will mention their deaths anyway... .:Alex:.

Really a necessity to list when a character dies?

Really a necessity to list when a character dies? Jesus I just wanted to check up on someone and just found out that another character dies. That info is totally not necessary here. Darkwarriorblake (talk) 20:26, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Fact of the matter is - if you don't want things spoiled, stay far away from WP until you're through the story. xenocidic (talk) 20:27, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

You suggest we should play the whole game through and miss some important information about the characters ? Think about the non-native english speakers, you can't follow every dialog, even with subtitles on. It's nice to have a (free) guide speaking of character's history to refer to... I could of course buy the 15€ paper guide which will have the same use... Without the spoilers (or well-placed). 82.66.141.234 (talk) 10:38, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately you'll have to do just that, or perhaps visit a gaming wikia. WP:NOT#GUIDE. xenocidic ( talk ¿ review ) 23:20, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I think it's okay to put when they die and when they are introduced but every detail about what they do in the game. How about just a summary about their personality and history. That would be much more suitable. There are alot of people on the internet that are complaining about this site and it's GTA IV spoilers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.96.86.112 (talk) 22:22, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

The significance of the name Bellic

The name Bellic is defined by

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Bellic

as: Of or pertaining to war; warlike; martial.

This fits very well into the character's history, making it notable. Many other names are significant - Faustin being linked to 'Faust', the path of Faust. Again, this is something that is mirrored in the choices Mr. Faustin makes. Perhaps we could add this information in? 64.252.165.155 (talk) 02:54, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

possible additions of Bobby Jefferson, Julio Ochoa (spoilers)

As he is a fairly important minor character later in the game, Bobby Jefferson should warrant consideration of an entry. As a reminder, he is an associate of Gravelli who is in town to give a speech about the dangers of the Russian mafia. Niko must protect him when his convoy is attacked. As is heard by a radio news brief sometime after the mission, this speech (which also lauded the efforts of other hard-working immigrants such as Niko) also prompts Mayor Julio Ochoa to pay more attention to the Russians, possibly foreshadowing a shift in power with a reduced Russian presence in future games taking place in Liberty City. Ochoa, though unseen, plays more of a role than many already listed. Youngblood0000 (talk) 10:10, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Significance of Dimitri Rascalov's name

in GTA IV It seems to me that the name Dimitri Rascalov (and perhaps to a far lesser extent the character himself) is a reference to the character Rodion Romanovich Raskolnikov, the protagonist in Russian author Fyodor Dostoevsky's novel Crime and Punishment. Besides the obvious similarity in last name and the fact that the mission in which Dimitri Rascolov is first introduced is titled "Crime and Punishment," the character Raskolnikov is a poor former student who commits a murder and ends up trying to hide the fact from his friends, family and the authorities. Additionally, Dimitri somewhat resembles Raskolnikov as he is described in the novel, as he is tall, fair of build and has brownish-blond hair, although he is never mentioned as wearing glasses.

However, all of these similarities are irrelevant if no one thinks that the references to Raskolnikov are worth mentioning in the article. So, what do you think? --Bionic Pants (talk) 23:16, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

U.L Paper's agency

U.L Paper is a CIA agent. You can see a Certificate of Excellence with the CIA seal on the wall behind and to the right of him in the intro cutscene of Wrong Is Right.

75.38.40.209 (talk) 19:32, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

The face of Niko Bellic?

Hey, watch this video, particuarly at 3:37, the Thug for the Russian Mafia looks suprisingly like Niko Bellic, notice the big nose, :D , [27], he's the one in the grey tracksuit top BTW... --Hexhunter (talk) 21:42, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

Giving Niko his own page

if we did it for all the other protagonst, why not for Niko? --SoldierOfColbert (talk) 04:59, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Mike and Joey

I'm pretty sure there's nothing out there confirming any of these characters, including their involvement with other known characters.

True but then again there is a chance they will be in there! Joey might make a return as Don of the Leones! But this is purely Speculation--Manny Ribera 14:41, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Characters dead?

Can Iget some proof the graffiti saying some characters are dead, besides the quote? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.60.51.250 (talk) 21:25, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

One survivor...

In the line "There are virtually no characters from the previous games in GTA 4" there is one exception to this Lazlow who was in all the games after GTA 2 is the guy from ZiT and has a radio show.

Roman's Mother (Niko's Aunt)

According to the dialogue with Kate Mcreary when on dates, she was a good women who raised Niko with Roman when his mother couldn't. Roman's mom sent him to America to escape the war, but Niko stayed because he wanted to fight. She is raped and murdered during the war, although Roman thinks she died in a housefire. Don't you think this should be cited somewhere in the article? Flare13 (talk) 04:46, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

way to go on adding another spoiler

---

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.96.86.112 (talk) 22:24, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Well this article is based on spoilers you know. Flare13 (talk) 23:54, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Well Niko's Aunt is not a chracter in the game so forget about your hopes of getting her in the article. Now go post some spoilers on youtube while your at it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.96.86.112 (talk) 19:55, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Don't attempt to attack me. I'm just stating a fact. I don't even mean in her own section, maybe Roman's. Also, just to point out, Roman's mom is a character (although you are unable to interact with her) Flare13 (talk) 20:34, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Roman Bellic

He's 31 by the way... You can find out people's ages by going on the in game LCPD database on the internet. Also I don't think the American Dream should have quotation marks. Meaty♠Weenies (talk) 21:07, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Major/Supporting/Minor Characters

Can anyone explain why certain characters are listed in the sections they are currently in? For example, why is Brucie considered a 'major' character when, from what I remember, none of his missions were related to the storyline? Was there a guide or list somewhere that split them up like this? Some of these characters could definitely be moved around, I think. 12.5.52.170 (talk) 19:30, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to know this too. Has Rockstar or the game credits listed characters in order of importance, or is a case of this WP:OR? I would rather see them split as the game does, into Niko, Friends, Girlfriends, Crime Families, Gang members/leaders, Random Characters and so on. If no one has any objections, I'll have a go at this on Friday... It can always be reverted!--WORM | MЯOW 08:16, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

And it's GAMBETTI. Not GRAVELLI or GAMBELLI. GAMBETTI. Theres a huge difference.Link ganon zelda (talk) 16:12, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Milica Bellic

She writes e-mails to Niko on Croatian language. All of the words are pure Croatian words except "srecan" which means "happy" and is used in eastern parts of Croatia and in Serbia.Duxer (talk) 22:29, 20 May 2008 (UTC)Duxer

No, even Roman at the beginning says it's serbian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Flare13 (talk • contribs) 00:11, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

I think I can understand my own language. Roman dose not have anything to do with Niko's mother. She writes e-mails to Niko on Croatian language.Duxer (talk) 11:09, 24 May 2008 (UTC)Duxer

Roman has everything to do with Milica. Not only does Niko talk to Roman about how she liked Roman, Roman also declares that she is his aunt. Niko is her son. if Niko is Serbian, you better believe that Milica is too. That means that its probably Serbian. Althogh certain Eastern European languages kinda sound the same.Link ganon zelda (talk) 16:04, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

• The written language is Serbian (Ekavian) (= 10000000% Serbian)

Goldberg/Thompson

The article currently reads that Tom Goldberg may be a parody of Jack Thompson. Can anyone explain why this is here? The character has no physical resemblance to Thompson, is portrayed as a liberal humanitarian, and is shown in an extremely positive light throughout the game. None of the news reports about Golberg or his death mention any of the subjects traditionally related to Jack Thompson, such as video game and media violence. Other than the fact that the character and Thompson are both Lawyers, I don't see any relation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cas013500 (talk • contribs) 17:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Probably his line when you pull a gun where he says something along the lines of... "hey, i agree, guns don't kill people, video games do!" (this was well-covered in the previews). xenocidic ( talk ¿ review ) 17:42, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

Positive light? he is shown as a religious nut who thinks video games are responsible for violence and i thought the article on him on the in game website was meant to imply he was also a pedophile but i could be wrong. He was a parody but without a source it does not matter. its at least worth noting (if you can find a reliable source) that jack Thompson mentioned how a character was made to spoof him or something and it let you kill him. Derelix (talk) 20:59, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Lola proof

I haven't seen this picture of Lola being picked up by the player. has anyone else? it's unsourced information.

Flare13 (talk) 00:09, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

Basis of Brucie's character.

I haven't seen Pure Pwnage, so I can't comment on the claim that Brucie's personality is based on FPS Doug, but I saw S01E01 of Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmare's USA, "Peter's" and I believe that the restaurant manager Peter was an influence. Apart from being very similar in looks, Peter has anger problems, is obsessed with looking good and doesn't actually do any work. Here's a pic of Peter. http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d15/superfurryocelot/Peter.jpg Crazymoon (talk) 16:44, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Puerto Rican Guy

Okay so who was this Puerto Rican jerk who shows up on two occasions in the game? First he steals the diamonds at the meet in the museum, then he negotiates the release of Gracie Ancelotti with her father. It seems strange how they did not really express what his deal was.

Then again, Bulgarin also mysteriously dies. Maybe they were subtly foreshadowing what the downloadable episodes the Xbox 360 will be getting in the fall?

If anyone has more info, please reply. Vicious203 (talk) 21:14, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

The puerto rican guy is Luis Fernando Lopez who also appears in "Three Leaf Clover" as the man talking to Eugene, the guy who is shot after killing St. Michael. Luis is also suspected to be the protagonist of the second GTA IV DLC (downloadable content). He is voiced by Mario D'Leon. --69.124.40.173 (talk) 22:07, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Pathos and Talbot

I know they're minor characters but shouldnt they be included in under minor characters? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.122.246.229 (talk) 16:49, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Niko Bellic from Eastern Europe?

Despite the apparently generally accepted "idea" that all Slavs reside or come from Eastern Europe, this is by no means true. (*shakes fist* We're not all Russians! :) Even by the widest application of the term "Eastern Europe", Yugoslavia and its successor states are not in Eastern Europe. They are, in fact, in Southern Europe, with Slovenia and some northern regions of Croatia being part of Central Europe. This significant mistake ought to be corrected. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 10:02, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Is everyone ok with the change? Bosnia is most certainly not in Eastern Europe, quite the contrary: it is very far from it. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 00:14, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Consensus has long since been reached on the issue of his nationality. It is fine the way it is. WikiKingOfMishawaka (talk) 12:03, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

I'm not talking about his nationality, and frankly I don't care what that may be, I'm only saying that Bosnia, Serbia, Croatia, etc. are nowhere near Eastern Europe. Its an obvious error that ought to be corrected on an encyclopedia like Wiki. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 12:33, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Eastern Europe is itself a pretty gray term. xenocidic (talk) 12:36, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Agreed, but not gray enough to include ex-Yugoslavia. The country was not even in the Eastern Bloc and, if we exclude the definition of one magazine, it is not considered a part of Eastern Europe. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 12:43, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Again, there's already cited info that states Bellic is 'Eastern European.' The article is fine the way it is. It's entirely not relevant to this article which countries make up Eastern or Southern or Northern Europe. WikiKingOfMishawaka (talk) 13:08, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Fine, fine... --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 13:17, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

Maybe they mean if you cut Europe in half and declare it cardinally. Whatever is east is east and whatever is west is west. It's close-minded but some people are like that. And who's to declare north, south, east, and west anyway? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Link ganon zelda (talk • contribs) 16:09, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Dardan and stolen T.V:s

"Dardan Pretela is an Albanian loan-shark and also operates in a fence by selling stolen objects which is by said Roman when he says 'if I wanted to buy a stolen T.V, I would go to Dardan.'"

In communities of immigrants from Balkan here in Scandinavia (at least Norway and Sweden), albanians are often stereotyped as petty thieves. I don't know if this is a generally accepted prejudice or if it's something that's been born here, but when I heard Roman's statement in-game I immediately saw it as a reference to this, especially seeing as Roman is a serb (most likely, keep that flame war in the section were it belongs) and serbs stereotypically dislike albanians. Am I completely off here? 83.248.165.29 (talk) 21:38, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

I think that this counts as speculation rather than hard fact - if you had sources that link this with your speculation, then you could add it. I know because I have seen similarities between Niko and the lead part in Shakespeare's Macbeth, but this cannot be added because I don't have evidence to back up my observation. Grieferhate (talk) 14:34, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Packie's relationship with Mother and Sister

I don't know that Packie resents his mother and sister, as the description states. If Kate dies at the end of the game, he is actually heartbroken. He never speaks ill of them, so I think this should be changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.11.17.101 (talk) 23:25, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

He doesn't hate them. He's just Irish. --70.128.86.221 (talk) 20:36, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Oi, was there any need to make such an offensive comment? 86.130.230.187 (talk) 14:23, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Formal names vs. common names

86.18.83.87 keeps changing the headings from the common names i.e. "Playboy X" to "Trey Stewart". In my opinion the headings should have their common names, the lead-in can say their formal name. –xenocidic (talk) 14:35, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Elizabeta Torres

Why does it say Elizabeta Torres is voiced by Charlie Parker? He died in 1955. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.178.170.157 (talk) 00:18, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

Elizabeta Torres was voiced by an unknown female voice actress with the same name of Charlie Parker, it did not mean she was voiced by the famous musician who is indeed dead, as of 1955. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.40.173 (talk) 22:11, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Lola Del Rio existence source

check here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_6md-XLg1s it is a video that she does exist, albeit among fake videos claiming the same. May not suffice for a valid source, but eventually someone big will post a blog or review on it we can cite. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anthony cargile (talk • contribs) 12:59, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

Florian Cravic

I wonder, how is his name pronounced? Admiral Norton ^(talk) 21:37, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

its pronounced flowreean kravichLink ganon zelda (talk) 01:29, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

I was thinking something along the line of Tsravich, but I guess Rockstar doesn't know Serbian that well. Thanks for your answer. Admiral Norton ^(talk) 13:04, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Giovanni Ancelotti, unseen character?

Isn't he seen in the game? During the misson where Niko and Packie are exchanging Gracie for the diamonds?

No, that's "Gay" Tony Prince and his bodyguard, Luis Fernando Lopez. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.40.173 (talk) 22:13, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

cast

GRAND THEFT AUTO IV STARRING: MICHAEL HOLLICK - NIKO BELLIC, JASON ZUMWALT - ROMAN BELLIC, MOTI MARGOLAN - DIMITRI RASCALOV, RYAN JOHNSTON - PATRICK "PACKIE" McREARY, COOLIE RANX - JACOB "LITTLE JACOB" HUGHES, ALSO STARRING: THOMAS LYONS - FRANCIS McREARY, TIMOTHY ADAMS - BRUCIE KUBBUTZ, JOE BARBARA - RAY BOCCINO, TONY PATELLIS - DON JAMES "JIMMY" PEGORINO, FRANK BONSANGUE - PHIL BELL, CHARLIE PARKER - ELIZABETA TORRES, ELENA HARVEY HURST - MALLORIE BARDAS-BELLIC, DEVIN RICHARDS - DWAYNE FORGE, POSTELL PRINGLE - TREY "PLAYBOY X" STEWART, MILTON JAMES - U.L. PAPER, GEORGE FEASTER - DERRICK McREARY, P.J. SOSKO - GERRY McREARY, KAREL RODEN - MIKHAIL FAUSTIN, BERTO COLON - MANNY ESCUELA, MARY CATHERINE DONNELLY - KATE McREARY, MADISON ARNOLD - JON GRAVELLI, MISHA KUZNETSOV - VLADIMIR "VLAD" GLEBOV, TIMOTHY J. ALEX - FLORIAN CRAVIC/BERNIE CRANE, VITALI BAGANOV - RODISLAV "RAY" BULGARIN, SEEBORN - TEAFORE "REAL BADMAN" MAXWELL-DAVIES, DORIS BELACK - MAUREEN McREARY, REBECCA CROSS - MICHELLE/KAREN, ROBERT FUNARO - ANTHONY CORRADO, NOTABLE ACTORS/PEOPLE IN THE GAME: KARL LAGERFELD, IGGY POP, JULIETTE LEWIS, DADDY YANKEE, KAREL RODEN (RASPUTIN IN HELLBOY, THE RUSSIAN ASSASSIN IN THE BOURNE SUPREMECY), THOMAS WAITES (WINDOWS IN THE THING) LAZLOW JONES, JASON SUDEIKIS, FRED ARMISEN, WIL WHEATON (MAIN CHARACTOR OF STAND BY ME), ROBERT FUNARO (EUGENE PONTECORVO IN THE SOPRANOS) and BILL HADER. --69.124.57.51 (talk) 01:36, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

Niko's Personality

I've been told that Niko's personality is based on ex-footballer (or "soccer" player) Slaven Bilić's, and to be honest I can see the resemblence, but surely this is untrue. Have Rockstar said anything about this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.209.46.103 (talk) 17:30, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Kate McReary

I don't know if it's just me, but I picked the finale that she dies in, and about a week after that I was playing the same profile and she called me asking me why I haven't called her. I don't know if it's a glitch, but it kinda creeps me out. --L0W3R1D3R | TH3 L0W3D0WN 00:01, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

I think you'll find, mate, that this is not a glitch - the makers probably didn't want us to lose the benefits we get from dating characters because they die in the storyline - if you take the Deal storyline, when Roman is killed, he can still be called and taken out and his taxi service can still be used. I think that this is proof that what goes on in between missions is considered non-canon - this together with the fact that characters who you can take out do not acknowledge recent missions, unless they were missions done before they became friends - Packie will not acknowledge his sister's death if he is taken out after the Revenge storyline. Grieferhate (talk) 17:23, 17 October 2008 (UTC) That not at all true. It is a glitch. Try playing the game again. Roman is not available for me after he got killed. Phone calls that happen between missions are cannon since certain characters cannot be accessed after something happens in the storyline. Didn't you notice how you can not go out with dwayne after killing him? Derelix (talk) 21:10, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps I should've been a bit clearer - Dwayne cannot be taken out because he never was taken out - he can only be taken out after all his and Playboy's missions have been done - whichever way you look at it. Maybe you didn't get Roman after he died because you use a different gaming platform to me. Grieferhate (talk) 14:31, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Kiki Jenkins

Why is Kiki Jenkins not listed as a "girlfriend" character along with Kate, Michelle/Karen and Carmen Ortiz? Kiki is a lawyer from Algonquin that can be dated; she has the special ability to reduce wanted level stars for Niko if she likes him enough (similar to Francis McReary's ability). Someone should fix this!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.2.7.218 (talk) 19:59, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

It seems like they've gone out of their way to take her out, using the excuse that only girlfriends involved in the story are included, even though Carmen isn't involved in anything. 67.101.56.253 (talk) 02:29, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't see how appearing for 4 seconds in a cutscene with no dialogue qualifies Carmen as a "major character". When I get the time I'm moving Carmen to minor characters and adding Kiki there as well. 67.103.26.142 (talk) 10:50, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Don't worry, I made sure it happened. I would've done it earlier, but I didn't know Kiki's surname. Grieferhate (talk) 09:50, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

Thank you! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.2.7.218 (talk) 18:06, 18 October 2008 (UTC)

Descriptions of character deaths

I haven't had much to do with this article, since I was avoiding it while playing the game. I was just wondering what the general consensus is regarding describing character deaths. I've noticed a couple that I don't agree with, but don't want to change anything yet in case I'm missing something. One is the "revenge" death of Dimitri which is described here as: "Niko executes Dimitri by shooting him in both his legs then the head". Now, when I played that mission, I killed him in the execution style and he was only shot in the head. The other thing is that the player doesn't have to kill him this way; for example, a Youtube video shows him being beaten with a baseball bat. Since these things are often down to player choice, would it be better just to say that the character is killed, rather that actually describing how? Dbam ^Talk/_{Contributions} 14:17, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

I agree. It should be kept simple because the player can do things differently. Bill ^{(talk|contribs)} 14:29, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

I decided to keep the info, but added it was only during optional cut scenes. I added a note about the execution cut scenes to the lead too. Darko's scene in particular seems to have some bearing on events (thanking Niko). I'd actually like to point out, while I'm on, that I've actually just watched Dimitri's proper execution on Youtube and he is shot in the legs. I was sure I'd done him execution-style, but I must've been mistaken, oh well. Dbam ^Talk/_{Contributions} 18:49, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Niko Belic

Other main protagonists from the others games (i.e. Carl "CJ" Johnson) have their own page, why not Niko? D.M.N. (talk) 08:34, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I would support having a page for Niko.MOOOOOPS (talk) 08:48, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I've created the page. Just follow the link Niko Bellic (GTA character Grieferhate (talk) 15:34, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Notwithstanding that you missed a closing bracket, the proper place for this article would be Niko Bellic. Not sure if we have enough to create an article on him though. I left the deleted content in a hidden comment directly above this note. –xeno (talk) 15:45, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I think that a seperate article for Niko would make sense, we know more about Niko than we do about any other main character in GTA, and the one currently found here just seams out of place being longer than any other topic on the page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.162.96.122 (talk) 03:40, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

SERIOSULY MAKE IT

please —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.148.120.17 (talk) 01:38, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

Michelle?

Why is there no section in the character list for Michelle (later confirmed to be Karen)? I thought she was a very notable important character and should be mentioned here. Im very surprised she isnt. Ive read the article through 10 times to make sure she isnt, as i was convinced i must be missing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redman747 (talk • contribs) 19:25, 19 November 2008 (UTC)

I second this.... this is such a GLARING omission... Bohsocks (talk) 03:06, 1 December 2008 (UTC)

Third. I'm less than 10% through the game so I can't write it but it should be there. -Etoile 19 June 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.126.133.22 (talk) 16:37, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

Nikolai should be changed to Nikola!!!

Name Nikolai is Russian!

It has been proved by now that he is Serbain or Croatian or Bosnian.And nothing else.

His mother Milica has Serbian name.Language spoken on occasions inside the game is Serbian. He was in Bosnian war.Only three sides fought in that war.(Serbs,Croats,Bosnians)

So Nikolai name doesnt exist in ANY of those 3 cultures.(Croats,Serbs,Bosnians) Its exclusively Russian.

But name "Nikola" exists is Serbia,Croatia,Bosnia.

So it needs to be changed from Nikolai to Nikola~! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ivica4 (talk • contribs) 19:42, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

Images

It is standard practice to remove images of characters from character lists, especially when there is no discussion of the characters' appearance, per the non-free content criteria- there is no critical commentary on the image, and the image can hardly be considered significant if the appearance of the character is not even worth discussing in the text. Using character portraits in character lists also opens the floodgates to allowing images for all the characters in the list, which is obviuously overuse. For more information, see the explanation and links found in this essay. I do not immediately see why this list should be treated any differently from others, nor do I immediately see any past discussion of the issue. I am removing the images again, and I would ask that they are not added back without decent explanation and reference to policy. J Milburn (talk) 18:29, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

First of all, see a small part of the previous, and very heated, debate on the issue (which has been referenced and several times at WP:NFCC and WP:AN, in case you think it's irrelevant). Let's not even get started on the whole "lists" debate. A prosaic list is different from a skeleton or table list (and so on and so forth). In fact, there's an idea to omit "list of" from the title, as some other such articles are doing, due to the constant clashes and issues arising from it, as it's really an article. There is also no consensus on it being "standard practice" to remove images from lists simply because they are "lists". Removing images from articles is a subjective process.

Secondly, this wouldn't open the floodgates to overuse as previous consensus (which applied to all similar articles covering this series) on the issue was that only primary characters can have images, and this is constantly monitored and images for secondary or tertiary characters are immediately removed to prevent overuse in this manner. So that's not really an issue here.

"Critical commentary" (if you would please care to give an exact definition on this, as no one at WP:NFCC seems to be able to) was present in the article at one point, but due to recent heavy vandalism and removal of sourced and other such content, it's been lost in the chaos. I'm sure you can see how bloated this thing is. We can add some sort of critical commentary back. --.:Alex:. 21:32, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I agree. And I also think its time to open a discussion for all character pages for the GTA series. It would be best that way, and this way we could avoid any more lengthy and heated deabates in the future. JayJ47 (talk) 22:03, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

If there is decent sourced discussion of the character's appearances (or some other reason that a picture is necessary to have a full understanding of the text) I could certainly support the readdition of images for major characters. I can see that there is also significant discussion of the character themself, and, as you say, the images are there only for the major characters, meaning that the floodgates would not be opened. J Milburn (talk) 23:07, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Note also that a good way to avoid this kind of discussion being rehashed is to make reference to the prose in the image caption (something like "The design of X character was based on Y, with the addition of Z") and to not use generic copy-paste rationales, instead explaining why that image is required, again with reference to the text and exactly what it is being used to illustrate. J Milburn (talk) 23:08, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure that there were earlier discussions about this. Four images of major characters are certainly appropriate for a handful of reasons that I'm sure were already discussed here in more detail. First, this article is an amalgamation of smaller articles and not some kind of bare bones list of elements. All the images in question accompanied significant prose content. Second, the images were only for major characters, ones that are essential to understanding the overall topic of characters in the game. Is it really necessary to have this same conversation every six months? Croctotheface (talk) 00:56, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm personally quite happy to sit and have the same conversation until some decent reasons are provided for keeping the images, or the images are removed permanently. The fact that the characters happen to be major characters is inconsequential: that doesn't make their appearance any more significant than other characters' by default. If the characters' apperances are significant, then the images should be included. Otherwise, they should not be. Why do you believe the appearances are significant, and if they are so significant, how come there is no sourced commentary of the significance within the prose? J Milburn (talk) 01:12, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Indeed - please point me to the policy that states that "four images of major characters ... are sppropriate". Because I can't find one. And then, explain how they pass all three ofWP:NFCC#1, WP:NFCC#3a, and WP:NFCC#8. Thanks, Black Kite 01:13, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Explaining why they pass those tenets was the whole basis of the conversation that happened a year ago and the rehashing of it that happened a few months ago. You can look back to those discussions, or the comment I just posted on the WP:NFC talk page, for those reasons. Until then, I'm going to let others present their opinions lest this degenerate into three editors bickering. Croctotheface (talk) 01:17, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

And I'm going to unwatch the page too. Black Kite 01:57, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Just as well, seeing as time and time again you simply storm in, ignore all previous discussions and try to impose the same old view. J Milburn, you've actually been the most helpful and co-operative person I ever come across on the subject of images. I will come back to this very soon, but unfortunately I'm a bit busy what with the holidays and everything and can't get into the discussion properly. Just so you guys know I haven't disappeared. --.:Alex:. 12:00, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

I think we should all take a break and comeback to this discussion later. I agree with .:Alex:. J Milburn has been the most co-operative thus far. We should all take a break from dicussing to cool off a bit. JayJ47 (talk) 01:23, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Have'nt we "cooled" off for long enough ? --Crypa (talk) 11:33, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

This is just clearly my opinion, but I'm still going to discuss this: Arguments will not solve anything. Removing images from the list of characters does NOT improve the article. This severely limits the "good article", thus hurts the reliability of improvising things right. So why don't we add images for the characters, so this way, it'll earn the "good article" again? If you prefer this article to become nothing but words, that's fine. Then it'll be a huge stub due to lack of images provided within this article. No images, no article improvement. It's all up to you guys. You can either improve this article by adding images of each GTA IV characters or just leave it empty and degraded. JMBZ-12 (talk) 20:24, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Eastern Europe

Seriously, since when is Bosnia in Eastern Europe?! It is generally considered to be in southern or southeastern Europe. ffs, Yugoslavia was not even within the Eastern Bloc, and even that stretches the geographic definition. It is about as "east" as Vienna. A mistake by Rockstar is not an excuse to include incorrect information on an encyclopedia. --DIREKTOR ^(TALK) 19:10, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Well Niko speaks Serbian and even Serbia isn't considered to be in Eastern Europe. I think saying he's from Yugoslavia is as noncontroversial as its gonna get, since Rockstar says "He's from that gray part of broken-down Eastern Europe, a war-torn area.". - europemayhem (talk) 21:18, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Putting all family members under family name (minimizing table of content)

I think that the TOC is too long according to Wikipedia's guidelines, and we can minimize it and the article to an extent by putting all the families listed (McReary family, Faustin family, Petrovics) under their family name instead of listing every individual on the TOC. What about it? Birdeditor (talk) 01:57, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea. MrTrent9484 (talk) 01:44, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Nationality Revealed

It is said in the game that Florian served with Niko in the Kosovo war. Since Niko served there he is a Serb, because Croats or Bosniaks did not fight in that war. Also his mother's name is Milica which is a female Serb name. One cannot decide simply by speech alone seeing as Serbs living in Croatia speak differently than Serbs speaking in Serbia. Simply put, he served in the Kosovo War which means he's a Serb. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.99.63.159 (talk) 04:44, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Images

Images of the main 5 characters pass NFC criteria8. WHY ARE THEY REMOVED ? --Crypa (talk) 10:50, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

No, they don't. The appearance of the characters was not discussed, there was no need for the images. J Milburn (talk) 17:44, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

So basically what you are trying to say is that unless a character has a particular deformity or something of the sort, the images are plainly for decorative purposes ? --Crypa (talk) 19:01, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

actually, iimages for GTA IV characters are crucial in this article, unless you wanted empty spaced article that contained no images, that's all right by me. The list of characters seems to be downgraded with lack of images of GTA IV characters. JMBZ-12 (talk) 20:19, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Special friend abilities.

I've made a quick mention of the unlockable friend abilities for Roman, Jacob, Brucie, Packie and Dwayne, but in all honesty the only one of these i've ever used is Jacob's so i don't know enough about the others to explain how they work. Maybe someone would like to expand on the references and explain in more detail how they work. Also, i'm not 100% sure that my mention of friends needing to like you more than 75% is accurate, it may only be 70%.

MrTrent9484 (talk) 01:42, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Actually, they've all got specific ability points and drop off points, and I've got them written down somewhere (for example, I think Roman might be 60% on and then drop off of 15%). I'm having a look at the article at the moment, seeing if there's any ways it can be improved... Will have a look at putting stuff in about that! -- WORMMЯOW  09:20, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

Luis Lopez

Even with the fan theory of the Impossible Trinity achievement linking Niko, Johnny, and Luis, there is no confirmed information. It's all about speculation. If mentioned in his section, remove it under WP:CRYSTAL. Thanks guys The Phantomnaut (talk) 02:21, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

I've just added a paragraph to the Luis Lopez section relating to the "Impossible Trinity" achievement and before you all get on me about it, at least here me out: In the paragraph, I'm not saying that Luis WILL be the main protagonist of the second GTA IV expansion pack (without any official reference or source), but that fans BELIEVE that he will be the main protagonist. I'll let you see my edit for yourself so you don't have to go back to the article:

"There is fan speculation that Luis López may be the main protagonist of the second GTA IV episodic expansion pack. This might be hinted in Luis' numerous, yet minor appearances in the Grand Theft Auto IV universe and the "Impossible Trinity" achievement that is achieved after completing the GTA IV mission "Museum Piece" how (possibly) all three protagonists of the three games are coincidentally brought together in a dangerous situation. However, there is no official word that Luis will be the main protagonist on the second GTA IV expansion and currently remains a fan speculation."

May I ask that we keep this paragraph because, as I've said, I'm not saying that he's going to be the main protagonist of the second expansion pack but that there is fan speculation of it, which is a fact (I even note that there is no official word on it and that it's currently only fan speculation). I ask that we keep this because I feel that those reading about the character should know of this speculation and that it exists because if you haven't noticed, it's a pretty wide speculation among the GTA fanbase.~Madroxxide17 (complain) 19:17, 26 March 2009 (UTC)Madroxxide17

Confirmed, announcement of second episode. I am going to modify the info. The Phantomnaut (talk) 23:46, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

Johnny Kidnapped Roman

Read somewhere that rockstar have confirmed that Johnny Klebitz was the one who kidnapped Roman for the Russians, someone should put that in his article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.233.51.31 (talk) 14:51, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

The Lost and Damned is not out yet, unless you provide a source. The Phantomnaut (talk) 23:03, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Jon Gravelli?

Where's Jon Gravelli. 69.3.84.184 (talk) 15:44, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Good question =) –xeno (talk) 16:01, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Ray Boccino

It says that Pegorino thinks he's "not good at organized crime" but both Bell and Pegorino say several times that he's a "good earner". I'm pretty sure Peg says he would've killed Ray long ago if he wasn't so good at earning money. 69.3.84.184 (talk) 16:13, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

The Lost and Damned Characters

Should we add the characters from the DLC into this section or should we create a new section? Saad64 (talk) 17:37, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Well it's out and people beat it, so it's just a matter of time. Also it's part of the same universe as GTA IV so yes. The Phantomnaut (talk) 23:04, 27 February 2009 (UTC)

Fixxer!!

Under the headline Unseen Charachters, I find Fixxer/Phonebooth Guy/Assassin missing.

He is important in the last sequenses of the story.

Wellplaced near the Weapons dealer in Alderney.

85.167.3.206 (talk) 09:41, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

Fixxer/Phonebooth Guy/Assassin

This character fits in Unsseen, or supporting characters, not Minor characters.

85.167.3.206 (talk) 09:47, 6 March 2009 (UTC)

The Lost and Damned

I think that the Lost and Damned characters should have their own article. It is a separate story from Niko's centre, and by the time the second downloadable pack is released this article will be so full of characters it will be difficult to read them all and differentiate the characters that belong in which game.

Osh33m (talk) 02:19, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Subways

Is the subway the fastest way to get around Libery City? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Easterneurope (talk • contribs) 00:20, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Hi Easterneurope. Can I just remind you that this is a page designed to discuss improvements to the list of characters in GTAIV, it's not a forum for such questions, or to discuss the game in general Having said that, I always found the fastest way to get around was to take a taxi, and skip the journey. Takes seconds -- WORMMЯOW  07:35, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Faustin's name

Is Faustin's name in Russian the official one given by Rockstar? I happen to be Russian and I can say that his name should be Фаустин instead of Фостэн. The latter sounds more American than Russian. --Gerinych 06:27, 15 April 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Gerinych (talk • contribs)

Niko Bellić splitting

I'm proposing this under the following grounds:

• The article is too long to start with at 96kb, and at the moment very diffucult to read.
• Other protagonists such as Claude Speed and Tommy Vercetti have their own page, and Niko is notable enough to have his own article as the protagonist of GTA numbered game. Compared to some other articles on WIkipedia, the notability criteria is fulfilled.

A test version of the page which I am constructing in my userspace is here. If there is support for a split, I will move it to "live" Wikipedia. Feel free to edit the test version as you wish.

Thanks Tmwerty (talk) 16:29, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

• Support per your rationale. There is enough coverage in RS to allow for a split. —Admiral Norton ^(talk) 17:37, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Kenny & Lenny Petrovic

Are they Russian or Serbian? I'm asking because there is a Russian surname Петрович, that is typically transcribed as Petrovič/Petrovich, but there is also a generic Balkan (Croatian, Serbian, Bosnian, Montenegrin, etc.) surname Petrović/Петровић, which is pronounced differently and sometimes written in English as Petrovic/Petrovich. The article uses the Petrović version, but includes Russian Cyrillic versions, and, to add to the confusion, does not display sources for any version. —Admiral Norton ^(talk) 22:11, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

The article states that they are Russian, but as RS's are hard to find for such minor characters it will be difficult to check, going with the transliteration given be Rockstar in the manual/in game as a basis for whether they are Russian or Serbian will probably be the best solution.Tmwerty (talk) 22:23, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Characters' ages

So.. why add ages for every characters in the game without any reason? if you are going to add ages, provide me links in order to know their characters' ages. if there is no proof, the ages will be removed, and it won't count as a vandalism. I mean that it will be removed due to lack of links. Also, their ages are never mentioned in the game, so there is no point in any way. So, if you think removing their ages is a severe mistake, then links are required to know if their ages are really true. JMBZ-12 (talk) 20:18, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Almost all of the characters' ages from GTA IV has been removed, due to lack of any proof or sources at all. If you think that it was wrong to do that, then it is indeed that sources for the characters' ages are definately required. Do not bother going to GTA Wiki. These do not show any sources or proof of characters' ages. If you still cannot find any proofs of souces and links, then I suggest you should e-mail Rockstar Games and ask about characters' ages in GTA IV. JMBZ-12 (talk) 13:52, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

As said before, I will remove character's ages if there is no source of proof for characters' ages. Even if you have found the LCPD site, then can only be done on the PC version using Fraps. Any unsourceful edits will be deleted. JMBZ-12 (talk) 17:39, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Spelling Mistake

Mafia is spelled Mafyia under the Roman profile. 68.82.162.148 (talk) 04:43, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Characters' Birth of Year?

Seriously? Do you guys intend on adding birth of year for all characters? If so, then a source of proof is required so I will find out if that was true. If the source of proof from the birth of year for all characters are not there, it will be deleted. JMBZ-12 (talk) 21:44, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Since there are no sources of any proof of characers' years of birth, it has been deleted. I would'nt reccomend going to GTA Wiki, since it shows no such source for characters' birth of year, thus being irrelevant. Do not make unconstructive proof for the characters UNLESS you have the source for characters' year of birth or ages. If there is no source of the two proofs, it will be deleted. I made the list of GTA IV characters remained as a stub. Since then, no images, no way of improving it. I'll leave the article suffer without images, since I tried adding them, but seems to me that nobody wants images to be in this article; if you guys want to make the article look empty, your loss then. i tried my best on improving the list of GTA IV characters. JMBZ-12 (talk) 00:12, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Real Badman (Teafore Maxwell-Davies)

This character is credited, encountered both in the main storyline (along with Little Jacob) and as a side-mission character, and yet isn't mentioned in the article.

Make Roman Bellic "Can be killed"

The fact that he dies in one of the two endings should make it as if it were optional so to be Can be killed rather than Killed in. If he were say killed in a mission which you didn't have a choice not to do, then it should be killed in. The same can be said with Kate McReary. --Victory93 (talk) 23:05, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Brucie's Sexuality

It says in the GTA 4 Characters article that Brucie might be Gay this is untrue the person who wrote that should find more evidenceAndrew nicholson (talk) 13:13, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

He continually reaffirms his sexuality without people actually asking him what his sexuality is, which is often a sign of projection; he believes that the stereotypical "beautiful woman" is perfect and that he will accept nothing less because that's not "how he rolls", which seems to be a mask for his general lack of attraction to females; he even works out and cares more about how he looks than the women that often surround him--which may, admittedly be an attribute of a narcissist, but he seems far more neurotic and to be suppressing his homosexuality to a larger degree than his narcissism is present. Oh, and he tries to kiss Luis during The Ballad of Gay Tony and comments that he would have sex with Roman "if - if I were gay!" I'm pretty sure it's clear to anybody who understands sexual undertones that Brucie is gay to an extent, though perhaps not outright homosexual. --AlbertWesker411 (talk) 20:17, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Jacob

Someone refers to Jacob as a Patois. I think this is doubtful, as he is often referred to, even by himself, as a "Rasta" which is a Rastafarian. It is actually Badman who is a Patois, which Niko finds harder to understand than Jacob.

Too many spoilers

Can someone warn the reader for spoilers? 83.84.17.246 (talk) 22:19, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Links

Rest in removing links to the GTA Wikia article. Several editors on the discussion page bitching example. of the site is unreliable to add information in the article and it will not be checking their source. If we must link to a similar site, it must be http://www.grandtheftwiki.com/Main_Page. Since, is made of defectors gta GTA wiki by almost all users obbakning because it was felt that kvalititeten became much worse and that the wiki was generally useless because of all the commercially pressed into, and therefore tried to keep a dead wiki going to make money. Although, today's wiki poorly Maintained. Website's former domain was gta.wikia.com, but it kept gta wiki. Just what I know from experience have experienced. There is not a personal attack on Wikia-business in general.--80.161.143.239 (talk) 18:13, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Bas Rutten

I think that it should be mentioned somewhere that Bas Rutten plays a fictionalized version of himself in the game, as a television host of The Men's Room, featuring Jeremy St. Ives. --AlbertWesker411 (talk) 20:13, 3 December 2012 (UTC)AlbertWesker411