Talk:Education in Sweden
Sweden B‑class Top‑importance | ||||||||||
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Education B‑class High‑importance | ||||||||||
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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Gabriel Gonzalez19 (article contribs). This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Philip Nyberg (article contribs).
Considering Special:Contributions/JGal2004, I removed "In 1979, the literacy rate was 99%" since no source was given. Angela. 10:31, Nov 5, 2004 (UTC)
Grades in upper secondary school
I just want to point out that there is a difference between *** (no grade) and IG, at least in some schools. Getting an IG means that you do not posses enough knowlige of that particular subject. Not getting a grade at all (***) means that you have not handed in enough material, so the teacher cannot judge how well you know the subject.
You could also say that getting an IG on a course means that you took, and finished the course, but failed it. While getting *** means that you took the course but never finished it.
This does not matter if the student never intends to 'fix' these grades, but some schools do look at these grades differently if the student wants to fix them.
As an example, a student that have an IG in say history, might just get a supplemental task, while a student with no grade would be required to retake the whole course. Dimacus (talk) 04:18, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
Grundskola/Primary school
Why is grundskolan (primary school) on this page divided into upper and lower? In sweden ít's actually divided into lower, middle and upper, with three grades in each, from 1-9.
- True, generally referred to as "lågstadiet", "mellanstadiet" and "högstadiet", respectively, (lit. "low stage", "middle stage", "high stage")
- Anyone good in Wikipedia editing can change it eh?--84.217.8.49 00:52, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Nowadays, it is really divided in "lower" ("tidigarestadium") and "upper" ("senarestadiet"), or something like that, so I think the current system should be reflected in the article, not the system you remember from your own school days... For practical reasons, individual schools still have the system with grades 0-5 on one school, and 6-9 on another, or all grades 0-9 (sometimes even including pre-school) on the same premises.--Blondel 17:33, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- Really? I had no idea... (note: "tidigarestadium" and "senarestadium" literally means "earlier stage" and "later stage", note: the -um ending is in indefinite form, while the -et ending is in definite form, it's a Latin borrowing, so it's irregular.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.232.72.148 (talk • contribs) 11:57, 27 September 2005
- AFAIK tidigarestadium and senarestadium are not officially recognized terms by Skolverket, unlike lågstadium, mellanstadium, and högstadium were before they were removed in 1994 and replaced with the current school system. People may use these terms however to differentiate between grundskolor that have grades 1-9 versus schools that only offer grades 1-5 or 1-6. Since 1994, grundskola is no longer divided at all and should just be one block in the table. I'll fix this at some point if no one else does beforehand. panda 17:21, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
I created a template, Template:Education infobox which can give a quick at a glance demographics table for education articles. See its implementation at Education in the United States and feel free to help improve the template.--naryathegreat | (talk) 01:00, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
Age span for primary and secondary school
I edited the age span for primary and secondary school in the tables today (oct 30 2005). I would like a discussion of which span should be used though. The editing done now was more for coherent use than anything else. It earlier said that lower primary school spanned from age 7-12, upper from 13-16 and secondary school from 16-19. This seems to me to be incoherent.
Either the span should note the beginning in which year the attendant turns the specified age, or what age span the children has when attending the education stage. This would mean that either use 7-12, 13-15 and 16-18; or 7-13, 13-16 and 16-19. I think the latter is prefered, because that kind of span take note of starting age and finishing age of each stage, as well as providing the number of years attending that stage (i.e. 13-7 equals 6 years). The former only take note of starting age for each year in the stage, and you have to think a bit extra to calculate the number of years for each stage (i.e. 12-7 equals 5 years). —Preceding unsigned comment added by FoH (talk • contribs) 13:13, 30 October 2005
- Skolverket (The Swedish National Agency for Education) has age spans for each level of schooling. The info has been integrated into the US vs Sweden section. panda 15:29, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
The tables
According to the tables, you finish grade 5 in Sweden when you are 13 and begin grade 6 at that age. That's wrong (We don't talk about those who wait one year because they can't sitt still during the lessons or those who begin earlier because people think they are smarter than other children). Let's say the child was born in 1982. In the school year of 1993-1994, the child was in the 5 th grade as an 11-12 year old. In the school year of 1994-1995, that child was in the 5 th grade as a 12-13 year old. (I know that some children are born late in the year, and the Swedish school year starts in August). This means:
Lower Primary School is grade 1-5, and for children between 7-12 years. Upper Primary School is grade 6-9 and for children between 12-16 years.
Some schools have another system, where Lower Primary School is grade 1-6, and for children between 7-13 years. Upper Primary School for them is grade 7-9 and for children between 13-16 years.
- 7-12, 12-16, 16-19 makes more sense matemathically. I change that. 惑乱 分からん 21:06, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
comparison
“A Swedish Bachelor's degree is seen to hold a slightly higher academic distinction,” Based on what? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.213.137.245 (talk • contribs) 18:50, 16 July 2006
- Not based on reality anyways. I teach in Sweden, and come from Britain, and can quite honestly say I've never heard this. Infact, I'd tend to say that in my experience the opposite is true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.226.85.0 (talk • contribs) 22:30, 21 March 2007
- That text as well as the entire comparison of higher education in the US/Sweden has been commented out until someone has time to update the text. The info was outdated and sounded more like an opinion than researched data. panda 20:23, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Put a dubious after (paraphrasing) "Swedish later high school is like freshman year in college". I see no claim for this, and don't believe it myself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.89.147.7 (talk) 22:08, 10 June 2008 (UTC)
While I am not a proponent nor an opponent of the two quotes above an argument that might be used by a proponent of the quotes might be that in Sweden to earn a uni degree you have to submit a thesis and there is no general education. Now, this comparison is only valid for some countries since many countries along with Sweden have requirements on handing in a thesis as well as having no general eduction at uni level. No matter what the two quotes lack a reference. Blimp80 (talk) 02:44, 16 September 2008 (UTC)
- I removed the objectionable comparison, which may have been valid through 1970 or so. (Only the International Baccalaureate schools would merit such a comparison, now.) The Swedish schools lack anything like the honors or advanced placement courses taken by many (15% ??) of the students in U.S. highschools.Kiefer.Wolfowitz (talk) 17:10, 19 September 2009 (UTC)
My understanding of the two educational systems implies that the only main (and relevant) difference is that swedish students attends a "6-years of age-pre school grade" while americans go to first grade. Therefore the swedish students in 9th grade are normally one year older than american students in 9th grade. Swedes also graduate gymnasium (wich should be translated to american high school) as one year older (18-19) than american high school graduates (17-18). This is the reason why swedes achieve a bachelor degree in tree years instead of four. The one or two years (Master one year/two years) after an attained bachelor degree is actually considered graduate school just like in the american system and the similarity continues with post graduate (doctoral) studies leading to either a Licentiate or Doctoral degree. I have no source for my info on the undergraduate vs graduate level but I cant see why the official institutions would translate swedish master programs as undergraduate level when the only difference lies in the lenght of study for a bachelor degree. Its still the same amount of years in school all the way up to a doctors degree counting "6-years of age-pre school grade" as the american first grade.
Another noteworthy difference is the swedish "proffesional schools". While americans need to attend college before entering for example Med School or Law School, swedes apply directly to these from high school (gymnasium). The proffesional schools then educate the students on undergraduate and graduate school leading to a Proffesional degree, often comparable with a master degree. Since Sweden lack of anything really similar to college, where students can choose their own courses and majors, swedes apply for a specific program at a university instead of applying for a school and then choose your field of study. This means that a University can have a highly selective Law school ("Law program") while at the same time accept anyone applying for another program. This means that the prestige in a degree not at all is related to which school you went to but to what program you attended at that school. Another impact of this is that these proffesional schools only teach their specific academic field and students thus do not get the broader education of a college with its core curriculum. For example a swedish lawyer who only attended law school does not have any kind of university education outside Law while american lawyers often study some kind of pre-law program with courses in sociology, rhetorics, economics etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.32.71.172 (talk) 04:02, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
University grading
The paragraph seems to be completely original research, and misinformed. I've never heard of a difference between Universities and University Colleges relating to where VG grades are used. And claiming that the 3-4-5 grades are mostly used at Högskolor is also wrong. Afaik, they are mostly used at Tekniska Högskolor, which are in many cases part of Universities.... Don't take my word for it, find a reference! /Kriko 19:31, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
- You're right. What grades are used has nothing to do with whether it's is a university or a university college (högskola). Perhaps the difference between universitet and högskola should be mentioned? Anyhow, that section is awful in the current article. There is a lot of information that is completely wrong. 130.243.240.244 23:17, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
- Can you find a source for the 50, 60, 65, 75 and 90% grading limits in the "possible table of comparison, in use in 2007 but without official status"? Where is it used? At Mid Sweden University, a document recommending 50, 60, 70, 80 and 90% grading limits was spread a couple of years ago. Mange01 04:38, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- If you find something incorrect in the article, be WP:BOLD and change it. –panda 23:57, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Education_in_Sweden#University
I put a Not verified template on this section, specifically regarding the cost. The estimated student debt after completion seems arbitrary and should be backed up - as should the rest. mceder (u t c) 13:53, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Swedish terminology?
Do we really need all this Swedish terminology in the running text? I could understand terminology like folkhögskola, högskola and komvux, but doesn't förskola correspond fairly well to pre-school, and årskurs to grade? 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 18:43, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
- It's better to include the Swedish terminology and to do it consistently.
- Deciding when it is sufficient with an English term instead of the Swedish term can be a matter of personal opinion.
- The Swedish terminology makes it easier for an English speaker to converse with a Swede about their education system. For example, Swedes would probably say gymnasiet and not "upper secondary school".
- Swedes definitely know the Swedish term for their schools but may not necessarily know the equivalent English term. If an English speaker were to ask a Swede about some part of their school system with the "official" English translation (according to Skolverket/Högskoleverket), the Swede may not necessarily know what they're talking about. Master degree has, for example, at least three different translations to Swedish: magisterexamen, masterexamen, and several of the yrkesexamina.
- Årskurs doesn't really translate to grade in the sense that it is used in American English even though dictionaries may say that it does. The number for årskurs restarts each time a student moves to the next school level (grundskola, gymnasium, högskola) so saying someone is in grade 1 of gymnasium or högskola doesn't make sense in American English. It would make more sense if it was translated as "year" for year 1 of grundskola, gymnasium, or högskola, but year is not a recognized translation for årskurs.
- –panda 20:59, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
- Okay, I start to understand your point, anyway. I'm a little doubtful about point two and three, though, since this is an article aimed primarily at an English-speaking audience. It could be enough to give the translation once. 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (< \) (2 /) /)/ * 08:55, 1 September 2007 (UTC)
Missing degrees in secondary school
Civilingenjör and högskoleingenjör(Degree of engineering and degree of master of engineering) Lord Metroid 19:32, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
- They're considered yrkesexamina, I believe. To clarify, those degrees are considered high ed degrees, not secondary school (gymnasium) degrees. Feel free to add more info about yrskesexamina (professional/vocational degrees) if you like since there is currently very little about them in the article. –panda 19:42, 29 September 2007 (UTC)
Citations Needed
Citations, context, and editing are needed on this page. Some sections, for instance the "Choice" section simply consists of assertion without citation or context. If there are controversies, the critics and their opponents must be cited. Further, the characterization presented only infects one with a desire to know what the outcome tradeoffs actually are in terms of the standardized math curriculum for young children, as Sweden is internationally famous for both having a very effective and competitive technology sector (based on math proficiency, one might assume) and presenting a model of high social mobility. Is the implicit comparison with the very high performance Finnish math education model? Context would be helpful. Blanche Poubelle (talk) 20:47, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
- Please add a
{{Fact}}
tag to where you feel citations are needed so that someone can eventually help fill in the gaps. Feel free to also include inline comments in the text about sections that could be further developed. –panda (talk) 04:36, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Post-secondary education
This section is mis-labelled and confusing as "post-secondary education" is per definition tertiary education, i.e. third level.
KomVux and the likes are second level education for adults, as subjects covered, as well as courses offered, are what the individuals could have studied at upper secondary school.
The part about KY makes it sound as if it is an educational exception, when the reality is that KY is vocational education and training, aka further education, and therefore falls under tertiary education.
The section on Gymnasiet can be renamed "Upper Secondary Level" and include KomVux; KY should be in a section referring to tertiary education, of which "higher education" is only one strand. WikiCou (talk) 08:16, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
American comparison
I hold both an American High School Degree and a Swedish NV-Program Gymnasium Degree, as well as higher degrees. The Bologna standard of Higher Education in the EU formally confirms the overall conformity of the academic standards of the pan-European K-12 systems, to which the Swedish basic school system adheres.
Having attended High School in both America and Sweden I can myself testify the differences between the European and American systems.
It is true that Americans start their school at the age of 5-6, whereas one in Sweden start at the age of 6-7. Thus in America one graduate at the age of 17-18 whearas in Sweden one graduate at the age of 18-19.
However, the Swedish High School is not as freely elective as the American High School, which means more classes are mandatory and conducted at a higher pace, since the students attend integrated curricula programs. That is, one can attend the Natural Sciences program which would correspond to an AP Science curricula in The U.S. That is: Advanced Placement in Math, physics, biology and chemistry - while still attending mandatory AP classes in social science, history and languages. Advanced Placement is a College level class taught at High School. The very reason this is offered in America is because it is standard in Europe. This is feasible due to the general higher pace of the studies. This in turn is made possible due to the strict central quality control of the schools. There are differences in school hours though. The American schools use more hours to teach the same subject before skipping to the next level, due to a century old national system of five hours a week for each course during the whole semester, which awards 5 credits towards graduation. There is a wikipedia article about American school hours and credits.
So, it is true that every class in the U.S high schools is conducted through more hours than in Europe. This means European students get shorter time to reach the same goals. That is: the study pace is higher in Europe.
The higher pace in Europe and the generally centralised state quality control of the High Schools explains how the last year of the Swedish High School (or KomVux) covers the first year of college in the United States. The elective classes in College, e.g: humanities alongside maths, are thus already covered by the Swedish curricula in the Swedish High School. Classes in American Colleges which are meant to broaden the views of a student are considered "electives" towards a different discipline than one's major. In Sweden, those classes were already taught in High School, but not as electives but as mandatory AP classes towards humanities, if one specialize in an AP science program at High School.
Therefore, the classes left to get a bachelors degree in Sweden, and Europe in general, only takes three years to complete. In other words the European first cycle is three years of college studies for the undergraduate degree, whilst it is four years in the U.S. The textbooks and the tests are the same - there is just lesser time in Europe.
College. In America all "undergraduate education" ("tertiary education" or "Bologna first cycle") is conducted at a "College", whether or not that college is part of a research institution called University. In Sweden people are missing the translation and use the term "University College" for Högskola, which is misleading since all Colleges are tertiary education (European first cycle) and awarded with a Bachelors degree. There is no reason to say "University College" since all Colleges are such. The word "College" means "post-secondary education". In fact the swedish word Högskola should be redefined to mean only undergraduate studies, whether or not the entity is part of a research conducting institute. That is: "University" education starts at graduate level, second cycle = after the Swedish "fil. kand." That is, after the college education of the university institution.
Community college is just a college that is not affiliated with a research conducting University. In Sweden that would be Högskola paid by smaller public funds.
A college in America (Community, Public or part of a University) can award an associate degree. That is what would be equivalent to a degree after the first year in a Swedish Högskola, since the elective subjects already were taught in Swedish High School due to the earlier higher pace. This would in the Bologna terminology be part of the first cycle, or in American words be part of College.
Since the elective subjects were covered in High School, there is room for integrated professional degrees. This is similar to the system all over Europe, England for instance. In an integrated professional degree, such as civilingenjör the first and second Bologna cycles (undegraduate and graduate programs in the U.S) are integrated into a more condensed entity - and the studies are conducted faster.
The terminology still goes as follows. Undergraduate=College=Högskola=First Bologna Cycle. Graduate School=University=Magisternivå=Second Bologna Cycle.
The final reason that a three year European first cycle equals a four year American College and a faster integrated professional degree, such as civilingenjör, equals a U.S grad school Master is the course descriptions and curricula of the classes. Above all it is the level of scientific maturity of the student that sets the standard, and that level is precisely written in general educational standards on national level. Those standards comply with what is academically regarded as needed from an international standpoint for each level. A master's degree is a master's degree, independently of where it is awarded, since it relates to fixed international knowledge criteria, and not study time. Shorter study time only means the goals of the degree where attained faster - the curricula is tougher, forming tougher students.
In other words: what students have learned after three years in Europe has taken four years in America. This pertains to both high School and College. The difference has its roots in the lack of centralized state control of American High Schools, the amount of school hours needed in America for each class, and the high number of elective classes American High School in subjects not considered as academic subjects.
It takes shorter time in Europe to reach specific goals than in America due to the centrally quality controlled High School systems across Europe, and to the higher pace.
I know this, because I have High School degrees from both the European state of Sweden and the American State of California, as well as higher degrees from Sweden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.176.227.250 (talk) 18:46, 20 July 2010 (UTC)
progression ratios
The progression ratios for secondary and tertriary education in the beginning looks really strange
Now, what does THIS mean??
Before being accepted to a higher education programme in Sweden, all applicants must demonstrate a minimum proficiency in Swedish and English by either taking 2 years of Swedish and English or passing Swedish B and English A.
OK, as a teacher in Sweden I think I can understand it, but any foreigner would find this impossible to decode. Because taking two years of Swedish and English doesn't say anything... Fomalhaut76 (talk) 20:03, 29 April 2011 (UTC)
Comparison with the American educational system?????
Why is there a comparison with the American educational system? This suggest that the Americal system is *the* system to compare with, while infact there's probably nothing to compare to. I suggest removing that section. 81.233.34.70 (talk) 22:35, 29 August 2012 (UTC)
- This section of the article is pretty bad. It gets several facts wrong regarding the American system. For example, it incorrectly claims that education in the U.S. is compulsory through age 18. While 18 is the typical age of graduation, education is usually only compulsory through age 16. The article also makes it seem like driver's education is a standard part of the American high school curriculum, which it is not. --JHP (talk) 17:17, 18 November 2012 (UTC)
I, too, believe there should not be a comparison with the US education system. Having one suggests that the us system is some kind of benchmark. In reality it is only a benchmark for us readers. Alternatively, it may be that the author of this section attended both us and Swedish high schools and finds the comparison personally interesting. That's fine personally but does not mean it should be in an encyclopedia. Taken to extreme we would have sections comparing the Swedish system with approx 190 other systems? Actually more as many countries have more than one system. I suggest removal of this sectio. what do others say?
- I think for people in the US it is useful to see a table comparing Sweden to the American system. It would be nice also for other major English-speaking countries to compare it to the UK, Australia and Canada so they can also have the advantage. As an American I always find it useful to see a table comparing them, and it doesn't hurt anything. I actually think adding three more columns for the UK, Australia, and Canada makes sense. Please don't delete it though. Stidmatt (talk) 01:41, 7 September 2013 (UTC)
And for people in Sweden it would be quite useful to have a Swedish-American comparision as a part of the article on the US education system... But there can't be 200 comparison sections in an article. Thus, ax it! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tommy la (talk • contribs) 07:18, 7 December 2013 (UTC)
Update on Free schools
In my opinion this is very important and needs to be added to this part of an article. "Sweden proves that private profit improves services and influences policy. Even education unions came on board when private provision was introduced into Swedish schools" - The Guardian. http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/feb/05/sweden-private-profit-improves-services
Maybe with this, in The Guardian mentioned, paper - "Independent schools and long-run educational outcomes – evidence from Sweden´s large scale voucher reform" - http://www.ifau.se/Upload/pdf/se/2012/wp12-19-Independent-schools-and-long-run-educational-outcomes.pdf Savo Gajic (talk) 00:57, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
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"Comparison with the American educational system"
How is this overly lengthy section relevant, singling out only one other country to compare? It's also totally unreferenced and looks like a lot of POV to me. I'll be removing the whole thing, unless someone can come up with a convincing reason to keep it. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 08:44, 6 October 2016 (UTC)
- Done the other day. --SergeWoodzing (talk) 12:57, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
Homeschooling
It would seem to me, considering the controversies surrounding Sweden's homeschooling policies, that the Homeschooling section of the article should at least include some reference to that. Gabriel Gonzalez19 (talk) 16:13, 1 November 2016 (UTC)
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You are not a "student" in (upper) secondary school you are a "pupil" (gymnasieelev).
I have to make a comment on the fact that in the article pupils in (upper) secondary school are refereed to as "students" despite them not actually being students.
You do not become a student until you completed the school forms requirements (ref: Studentexamen).
I know that there are some language differences, but in Sweden we do refer to pupils in (upper) secondary school as pupils (gymnasieelever), not students (studenter). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:2002:5AE4:FF5B:C0BF:A6B3:C31F:87FA (talk) 13:48, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
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Help needed
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Hello.
I have found the following statistics references, that I think seem important and reliable.
I would greatly appreciate if somebody could please check through them and incorporate them into the article if they are deemed appropriate.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Sweden needs 187000 new teachers:
https://www.svd.se/skl-sverige-behover-187000-nya-larare
70% of the regions in Sweden have increased security in the schools:
https://www.dagenssamhalle.se/nyhet/skolorna-skarper-sakerheten-21588
David A (talk) 14:17, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
- Already done. Both claims are already represented within the article, more or less. .spintendo 23:30, 1 June 2018 (UTC)
Student aid
I just wanted to point out that there are a lot of things that CSN (The Swedish board of student finance) have been changing lately according to their website. I think that it is a good idea to look over these new changes and update the section about student aid to make it better. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Philip Nyberg (talk • contribs) 00:34, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
Pre school
I just wanted to bring up one thing that have been changed from fall 2018 regarding children attending pre-school. I have been talking to my mother, who is a teacher in Linköping, Sweden, and she have been told that all children of the age of 5-6 years old have to attend pre-school and that it is mandatory now. Can someone help me to find a good source for this because I have not found one yet?