Talk:Robin Hood

Kayamkulam Kochunni

Please add him in the 'See also' list. He is a similar folk hero from Kerala Aravindunlimited (talk) 14:30, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

 Done - FlightTime Phone (open channel) 14:37, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

Crusades?

Is there any version of the narrative before Kevin Costner's film portrayal that make RH a veteran of the Crusades? That's an interesting wrinkle for a post-vietnam audience, but the lede shouldn't suggest it was ever part of the traidtional story. 150.243.14.41 (talk) 15:04, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

Older than you think. Robin Hood is depicted as a veteran of the Crusades in the television series The Adventures of Robin Hood (1955-1959). Here is the summary of the first episode: "Sir Robin of Locksley returns to England from fighting in the Crusades to discover that the notorious Sir Roger de Lille (Leo McKern) has been given his family's lands and castles, and has had Robin declared an outlaw. Robin takes refuge in Sherwood Forest and joins a band of outlaws led by Will Scatlock (Bruce Seton) who names him Robin of the hood." Dimadick (talk) 15:55, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

   Robin Hood and his Merry Men

Historical context: The story of Robin Hood is a legend. It is probably based on a real person who lived in England in the 12th century and around whom lots of imaginary stories have developed. The story of Robin Hood is set during the time when King Richard 1st was away fighting in the Middle East and his brother, Prince John, ruled England. At that time, England was governed by the king and a small group of wealthy lords who owned most of the land. Many people were very poor – they worked for the lords as farmers and had little freedom of their own. While Prince John ruled England, they were particularly badly treated and exploited. Robin Hood, who came from a wealthy family near the town of Nottingham, did not like what was happening. He spoke out against the unfairness of the tax system and became a champion of the poor. He became an enemy of the Sheriff of Nottingham (the man in charge of the area where Robin Hood lived). He hid in nearby Sherwood Forest to escape from the Sheriff. He robbed the rich and gave the money back to the poor. Many men joined him in his fight against injustice. The story: Robin’s father, Sir Robert of Locksley, was imprisoned by the Sheriff of Nottingham because he could not pay his taxes. Robin saw that this was happening everywhere. He wanted King Richard to return and rule the country again. Prince John and the Sheriff knew that Robin did not like what they were doing. The Sheriff sent his men to arrest Robin on the day of his wedding to Marian. Robin managed to escape with his friend, Will Scarlet. They went to live in Sherwood Forest. A lot of other men joined him and became his Merry Men. Will Scarlet captured a ‘boy’ walking through the forest and took ‘him’ to Robin Hood. The ‘boy’ turned out to be Marian, who had come to join the Merry Men. She told Robin that the Sheriff had allowed one of his men, Guy of Gisborn, to move into his old house, Locksley Hall, and that Guy wanted to marry her. Robin sent Will Scarlet and Much, the miller’s son, to see what they could discover. Will was captured. He was sent to Nottingham to be hanged the next day. Robin dressed up as the hangman and rescued Will. One day in the forest, Robin saw a little boat on the river. A fat friar, a holy man, rowed people in the boat across the river. The man, Friar Tuck, told Robin that he had had to leave the abbey where he lived because he had spoken out against the Sheriff. Robin invited him to join his Merry Men and be their cook. Friar Tuck married Robin to Marian. On another day, Robin discovered that the Sheriff’s men had robbed a friend of all his money. The Sheriff was taking it back to Nottingham. Robin set a trap for them, and took back the money the Sheriff had stolen. A few weeks later, Robin met a tall man on a narrow wooden bridge. There was only room for one man to pass. Robin asked the stranger to make way for him. The stranger refused, and they fought each other with long wooden sticks. The stranger, Little John, knocked Robin into the water. Robin invited him to join his Merry Men. He needed good, strong fighters like Little John. On another occasion, Robin heard that the Sheriff was holding a shooting competition. The winner’s prize was a silver arrow. With his hood pulled over his eyes so he would not be recognised, Robin won the competition. When the Sheriff presented him with his prize, he was most surprised to see who the winner was. Robin escaped before the Sheriff could capture him. Later, Robin dressed up as a butcher and went to the Sheriff’s house. He tricked the Sheriff into coming into Sherwood Forest, where he robbed him and sent him home without his money. However, things did not always go well for Robin and his men. One day, Will Scarlet and two other men were killed by the Sheriff’s men and Little John was captured. Robin fought and killed Guy of Gisborn, tricked the Sheriff and freed Little John. The Sheriff was just about to kill Robin when a knight dressed all in black rode up and told him to stop. The Sheriff put his sword away and left. When the Black Knight took off his helmet, Robin saw it was King Richard! As Guy of Gisborn was dead, the king gave Robin back Locksley Hall. One night, the Sheriff tried to climb up a rope into Robin’s house, but Robin heard him. He cut the rope. The Sheriff fell and was killed. Robin knew that the Sheriff’s men would come to punish him, so he sent Marian to stay with her sister. Robin rode off and joined a ship as a sailor. The ship was chased by pirates. Robin fired his arrows and killed many of the pirates. The ship’s captain gave Robin half of the pirate’s gold. Meanwhile, Marian’s greedy sister told Marian that Robin was dead so that she could share Robin’s money. Robin came to collect Marian, but Marian was out walking. Marian’s sister tried to poison Robin. Fortunately, Robin realised what she was trying to do. When Marian returned, she was amazed and overjoyed to see Robin. They left immediately and returned to the safety of Sherwood Forest. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.69.6.222 (talk) 02:39, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

There is no mention in the earliest source material of Robin Hood being involved in any of the Crusades. Let alone the Third Crusade of King Richard, well before the ballad heroes time. The earliest ballad reference places Robin Hood in the reign of "King Edward" which early external references clarify as Edward I. This is covered in the article which for all its present limitations is worth reading. The assocation of Robin Hood with the Crusades is a modern idea, maybe inevitable once the link with Richard I had been made. Jeremy (talk) 11:17, 21 January 2019 (UTC) Although the Robin Hood legend probably has been influenced by the history of Roger Godberd (which is not the same as saying Robin Hood 'was' Roger Godberd). Godberd was pardoned by Edward I on Edward's return from the Crusades although not in circumstances resembling described in the Geste. Jeremy (talk) 00:51, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 November 2018

Robin Hood was born in the 16th century in Loxley, Sheffield but was known to live in the Sherwood forests in Nottingham.he was a talented outlaw and archer who stole from the rich and gave to the poor. he married maid Marian at st mary's church, Edwinstowe and had a group of me called his merry men. He was believed to die in West Yorkshire and his faithful comrade in arms, Little John promised to bury his body where it fell and to where he breathed his last breath. 86.174.180.35 (talk) 20:43, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. DannyS712 (talk) 22:50, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

From the rich to the poor

This wiki article is a bit misleading in regard to the whole of the Robin Hood lore. Additionally it rests quite a bit upon WP:NOR instead of what many historians have written as to the origin of Robin Hood's relatively new policy of stealing from the rich to give to the poor.

Matt Phillpott, a professor of historical research[1] at the School of Advanced Study, University of London, writes a very simple question and answer:[2] "When did Robin Hood start giving to the poor?"

"One man in particular can be credited with drawing out this moral aspect to Robin’s tales. That man is Joseph Ritson (1752-1803)."

Stephanie Barczewski, professor of history at Clemson University also points to Ritson:[3]

"Not surprisingly, Ritson issued his collection of Robin Hood ballads with a polemical introduction which used the legend as a vessel for expressing his political ideas."

Barczewski explains specifically which political ideal being expressed was Ritson's:

"In response to the question of who gave Robin Hood a commission to rob from the rich and give to the poor, Ritson testily replied"

And then Barczewski quotes Ritson directly. Ritson knew full well that this ideology was new and believed he was within reason to introduce it. Finally, Professor Holt(quoted in the main body of the article) also points to Ritson: (Robin Hood, 1982, pp. 184, 185)

With Parker, Robin's Gifts to the poor illustrate Christian charity and penitence for crime rather than any deliberately conceived social policy..... Ritson was different. Politically, in different circumstances a century and a half later, he went the other way, and transformed Robin into a social rebel."

Holt explicitly states that "This was imposed on the legend". What Ritson wrote(which Barczewski quoted) is also important here. Ritson admitted:[4]

"That same power which authorises kings to take it where it can be worst spared, and give it where it is least wanted."

So Ritson's point that Robin Hood steals from wealthy lords and vassals is important, as the serf population in feudal times were generally in a perpetual state of poverty. This also goes back into why King John is the universal enemy along with his right hand man the Sheriff. These all have an important context per Ritson himself. The kings were redistributing wealth upward toward the king, but Ritson wanted wealth to be redistributed downward back to the serfs who were literally starving. But the important point is this:

That Robin Hood robs from the rich and gives to the poor is now a long-standing tradition in the lore. But since the historians are pointing to Joseph Ritson, then Wikipedia needs to also point to Joseph Ritson. Anything previous to Ritson was nothing more than kindness to the victims of the king. After Ritson, it's a calculated and politically charged social policy. Progressingamerica (talk) 15:04, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

oh45.19.165.218 (talk) 08:25, 10 December 2018 (UTC)

It certainly is a controversial issue as the article notes, but (some of)the sources for Robin Hood's attitude to the poor are given in the article. The earliest explicit reference to robbing the rich to give to the poor well precedes Ritson as a matter of fact, and his general patisanship of the poor is explicitly attested in the Gest. Of course the relative significance of the various motifs in the legend are up for discussion and Ritson certainly boosted that motif, as I think the artice notes adequately. But he also definitely didn't invent it. Jeremy (talk) 01:19, 23 January 2019 (UTC)

Still no mention of Robin Hood's Marksmanship

I was reading the article, at notice that there is no mention of Robin Hood's marksmanship, except in the intro: "According to legend, he was a highly skilled archer..." Looking through the archives, this issue has been brought up some time ago, but is yet unresolved.

Which legend is that? The modern intrepretation of Robin Hood has this as his foremost feature, yet nothing in the article support this claim. We should have a source for that claim. Nwinther (talk) 09:55, 2 January 2019 (UTC)

Native American chief Robin Hood in early colonial New England (Removed from article, wrong place)

(This section I've removed and placed here because although very interesting it doesn't seem to belong on the Robin Hood page, and if it did it wouldn't be under the Historicity title)

Chief Rawandagon, headman and shaman of an Abenaki Indian tribe on the lower Androscoggin and Kennebec rivers in seacoast Maine was a notorious figure in early colonial New England. What reminds us of him, wrote anthropologist Harald E. L. Prins, "are some place names in the lower Kennebec River area. For instance, there is a Georgetown Island village called Robinhood, located at the entrance of Robinhood Cove. Merrymeeting Bay, situated nearby, is another symbolic reference. [This] bay was once known by its Abenaki name, chisapeak"—"at the big part of the river." Here, Rawandagon alias Robin Hood and his Abenaki cohorts ("merry men") held their periodic (festive) gatherings, which in seventeenth-century English were known as "merry meetings."

"By the 1660s, English colonial authorities officially acknowledged his political position, appointing him "chief sachem" of the district from Casco Bay to Pemaquid. As such, he assumed responsibility for the actions of his native compatriots in the region, and mediated in negotiations and conflicts between them and the English. His final public act took place in 1675, when he mediated in a smoldering conflict between his cohorts and the settlers.

"In English eyes, the Abenaki tribesmen were funny-looking, funny-talking "wild men"—reminiscent of the fools, mummers, or strollers of the May fair. Words used by an English observer to describe New England's natives in the 1630s are revealing: "Bare Skinned Morris Dancers, who presented their Antiques before [a captive]... When they had sported enough about this walking Maypole, a rough hewne Satyre cutteth a gobbit of flesh from his brawnie arme, eating it in his view, searing it with a firebrand..."

Given this mindset, it is easy to imagine how Rawandagon, as an Indian headman, came to be identified with the fair's Lord of Misrule—Robin Hood. Not surprisingly, the English also associated the name Robin Hood with deception by trickery, as in the saying: "When...a Purchase you reap, that is wondrous cheap, they Robin-Hood bargains are call'd." Indeed, viewing Rawandagon and his cohorts as credulous fools, the English duped them into signing documents which served as proof that the Indians no longer owned parts of their traditional territories. Typically, they were paid a mere pittance for their land. Consider Rawandagon's first deed, a 1639 contract first identifying him as Robin Hood. In exchange for a considerable piece of land located on the east bank of the lower Kennebec (at Nequaseg, now Woolwich), which had "one wigwam, or Indian house" on it, he received the sum total of "one hogshead of corn and thirty sound pumpkins"

References