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Talk:Watchmen (TV series)

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by 68.225.10.29 (talk) at 19:41, 30 August 2020 (Info about Cord Jefferson.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Just listened to a Fresh Air segment about one of the principal writers of the TV show - Cord Jefferson. Cord Jefferson has one tangential mention in the article. https://www.npr.org/2020/08/29/906214563/fresh-air-weekend-watchmen-writer-stephen-miller-and-the-white-nationalist-agend

Vigilantes?

There are a few characters, such as Sister Night, Looking Glass, and Red Scare who are described in this particle as vigilantes, but they're really not. They're police officers, not private citizens, and like the other officers, they disguise their identity. They differ in that they have, for lack of better terms, a schtick.

We know they're not considered vigilantes within the fictional world because the vigilante hunters of the FBI don't go after them. Instead, the FBI works with them the way they might with any local police. For this reason, I suggest we call them costumed police officers, if we need to distinguish them from the regular cops who are masked with yellow balaclavas or scarves but otherwise wear police uniforms. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.197.116.79 (talk) 01:54, 20 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I went ahead and made a couple of changes after confirming that the cited sources did not refer to the costumed police officers as vigilantes. I left the term alone wherever it applied, of course.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.197.116.79 (talk) 21:27, 23 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Doyle or Abar

Angela's three kids are listed here as "Doyle", which is the surname of their deceased biological father. If they're just being fostered, then this is probably correct. However, HBO's site says "Topher Abar" is their adopted son: https://www.hbo.com/watchmen/cast-and-crew/topher-abar. I'm not sure if Emma and Rosie are adopted, though. IMDB lists "Emma Abar" but no last name for "Rosie": https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7049682/fullcredits. Where would we be able to find an authoritative source here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.197.116.79 (talk) 05:01, 26 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

IMDb is not a reliable source! I would say go by the official HBO website. — YoungForever(talk) 01:45, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
HBO is more reliable, but it's also incomplete. It confirms Topher is an Abar but is silent about the other two kids. But here's more proof that all three are Abars: https://www.instagram.com/adelynnspoon/?hl=en, https://www.instagram.com/itslilyrosesmith/?hl=en
That's enough to persuade me. 68.197.116.79 (talk)
The Instagrams of the two child actresses are not reliable sources because their accounts are not verified with a check mark. — YoungForever(talk) 03:51, 27 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The show credits don't mention their last name, but HBO's site confirms that their brother Topher's last name is Abar, not Doyle, and multiple sources refer to all three as adopted. There is no reason to think that he changed his last name but they didn't, and no source even suggests it.

Moreover, we have a variety of sources specifically confirming that one or both of the girls are named Abar. This includes their own Instagram accounts, which post exclusive pictures and have tens of thousands of followers, and sites like this:

This looks like an open and shut case to me. 68.197.116.79 (talk) 01:39, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I would just list both. It's not clear what they go by now, since both names are used reliably, and we know why they have that name issue (their biological parents died at White Night, the Abars adopted them). --Masem (t) 01:42, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I just noticed that YoungForever tried to remove Topher's last name, citing MOS:TVCAST, but then someone undid that. It turns out that the policy does not say what YF thinks it says. Specifically, "All names should be referred to as credited, or by common name supported by a reliable source." I'd say that HBO is a reliable source for the names of characters in HBO shows, as is Apple's TV site and those newspapers.
As for the fact that their surname used to be Doyle, I don't see anything wrong with mentioning it in parentheses, like "Topher (Doyle) Abar", but I'm not particularly inclined to do that, just because no source does and it's not really that important. 68.197.116.79 (talk) 01:50, 29 November 2019 (UTC)[reply]
FYI, I said we go by how they are credited which is All names should be referred to as credited, or by common name supported by a reliable source. on MOS:TVCAST. In addition, when I removed that there wasn't a reliable source to your claims. — YoungForever(talk) 23:26, 10 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

On Cal's line in the cast list

At least with Ep7's airing, we should not identify Cal as equivalent to Dr. Manhatten (though I've seen the rumors that it looks like the same actor that may be playing him in Ep 8, at which point we can add that). As best we can tell up to Ep7 without synthesis, Abdul-Mateen played the character of Cal, who we know had something in his head based on Dr. Manhattan, but it's not clear Cal was aware he was Dr. Manhattan. At this point, we know Cal was just a human shell with this device in his head. We may learn more next week. --Masem (t) 04:41, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Well, now with this from Lindelof [1] I am pretty sure we can assert this now. Will add myself. --Masem (t) 15:10, 2 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Spoilers in Cast?

There are unnecessary spoilers in the Cast and Characters section. For example it states that Calvin Abar is a form of Dr. Manhattan and that Trieu's daughter is actually her clone. I am 4 episodes into the series and this has not yet been established. These are unnecessary spoilers and rather frustrating. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.8.120.201 (talk • contribs)

See WP:SPOILERS - we do not use spoiler warnings nor hide material that has been aired in wide broadcast yet. --Masem (t) 23:03, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia contains spoilers and they are inevitable. Removing spoilers is considered to be disruptive editing. — YoungForever(talk) 23:33, 5 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The issue is not that spoilers exist, but that they are in the Cast and Characters section. A user wishing to read about casting information will be exposed to spoilers. Spoilers should exist in Plot Sections or in Episode Summaries, not in the Cast and Characters section. I have had two major plot details spoiled simply because I wanted to see who plays a character. Information about major plot points should not exist in a section regarding casting as is the case on all other Wikipedia pages regarding TV Series/Films that I have encountered (read: thousands). wikipedia pages — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.8.120.201 (talk • contribs) —Preceding undated comment added 18:31, 6 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, I think it's good practice not to WP:SURPRISE readers about major plot points in the 'Cast' section.--Pharos (talk) 18:40, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The problem with have with this show is that we have a few actors playing parts that need to be documented in the cast list but which I would be aware of would be called a spoiler (namely, Cal's identity and who Will really is). There is some element of not revealing too much, but at the end of the day, the encyclopedic functionality of providing information is more important than hiding info away because it may be a spoiler (the whole point of WP:SPOILER. --Masem (t) 19:09, 16 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I feel like there should be a better way to represent this, maybe a subsection alongside 'Main', 'Recurring', 'Guest starring', something like 'Character revelations'.--Pharos (talk) 01:11, 17 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think that sounds fair.Halbared (talk) 19:59, 20 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm surprised anyone wants to keep spoilers here. The contested wording only ruins the show for those who haven't seen it yet. Why is this controversial? Illdave (talk) 17:27, 27 December 2019 (UTC)illdave[reply]

See WP:SPOILER. Once something has aired we do not take steps to hide spoilers, particularly for highly relevant casting details, like Yahya playing both Cal and Dr M. --Masem (t) 22:11, 27 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Alan Moore's Rorschach quote

Apparently the original source for that one is a video interview he gave to LeJorne Pindling of Street Law Productions back in 2008, so it might be better to verify and cite that rather than a 2019 article quoting it.

ZoeB (talk) 11:56, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

As long as the source requoting it is considered an RS (where as the original source doesn't appear to be) , we're find using the re-quote. --Masem (t) 14:02, 7 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Ratings table

The table is looking a little empty and theres a reason for that. Some episodes couldn't be sourced with Live+7 and there's only one further one that could be. Would people be okay with a combined Live+7 and Live+3 to fill in the blanks? There are Live+3 numbers for every episode. Or should I just source the remaining Live+7 episode that can be and leave the rest of the fields as n/a? Esuka (talk) 00:33, 11 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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