Talk:Early modern human

Better to change content that to redirect

There was a very clear consensus to keep this page, with a feeling that it should not duplicate the Human article but be a scientific one about the species Homo sapiens.

Rather than redirecting we should remove duplicated content and start to add desired content. I will start the process. Martin Hogbin (talk) 08:14, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that's an acceptable option to me as well, provided there is a will to start the process. Thanks, Sławomir Biały (talk) 08:17, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

I have started by removing the unscientific Pioneer picture. The rest does not seem to duplicate the Human article as much as I first thought. What do you think needs changing? Martin Hogbin (talk) 08:25, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

I think the article should concentrate on biological features of the species, with mention of proven and established behavioural differences. Martin Hogbin (talk) 08:32, 11 July 2013 (UTC)

Wouldn't a better title for that be "biology of humans"? Emmette Hernandez Coleman (talk) 06:03, 22 August 2013 (UTC):::This is a good page to see and educate.Adam Jones (talk)

Should H. Sapiens redirect here, then, rather than to the Human article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.44.251.153 (talk) 23:17, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Mmkstarr (talk) 04:02, 21 August 2014 (UTC) Now petitioning for the species in this article to be moved to one of the three Threatened categories.

Homo Sapiens vs Homo Sapiens Sapiens

"Modern humans are the subspecies Homo sapiens sapiens, which differentiates them from what has been argued to be their direct ancestor, Homo sapiens idaltu."

How certain is the link of these species to Homo Sapiens? Is their existence or link to Homo Sapiens generally accepted?MrSativa (talk) 03:23, 22 January 2014 (UTC)

Article should be deleted

There is no reason to have 2 articles, 1 common name and 1 scientific name, this article should be deleted. Editor abcdef (talk) 06:09, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

This is the science article on all H. sapiens, to include H. sapiens idaltu, H. sapiens (both early – Cro-Magnon – and modern – us). A few even include Neanderthals, such as H. sapiens neanderthal, but most don't. My questions: Why this article? Why not one of the others like Human or Anatomically modern human? Why do you choose to delete this science article instead of one of the "common-name" articles? – Paine Ellsworth^CLIMAX! 16:31, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

Because common name is better than scientific name in article titles.Editor abcdef (talk) 21:32, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

"Better than?" What do you use to measure which is "better than" the other? That is very subjective, isn't it? Does that have any place in an encyclopedia that is for anybody and everybody? The policies and guidelines are crystal clear; you should find them and read them. This article stays, my friend, it's been here longer than I have! It's stood the test of time and is an excellent reference article! Joys! – Paine Ellsworth^CLIMAX! 02:02, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

Western gorilla doesn't have another article named Gorilla gorilla, and all the scientific things can be put into the long human article, anything wrong with putting scientific things into articles with common names as titles?.Editor abcdef (talk) 06:34, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

No, there is nothing wrong with that in theory; however, in practice it is not a good idea to lengthen articles that are already very long, like the Human article is. When articles get long, then it is customary to find a subject within that article that can be expanded into its own article. So there is a hierarchy of articles that are related to the Human article that exist so that the long Human article doesn't get too long. Hopefully you see that merging this article into the Human article would be a definite step in the wrong direction. And yet the information in this science article is still very important and should be made available to Wikipedia readers. – Paine Ellsworth^CLIMAX! 06:47, 13 January 2015 (UTC)

The article should not, of course, be "deleted", but we need to face the fact that it has significant topical overlap with anatomically modern humans and at present is pretty much a WP:CFORK. If there is a potential for a substantially different scope between the two articles, I cannot see it. If there isn't, the two articles should be merged. --dab (𒁳) 13:29, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

How is this any more scientific than the human article? And the human article also covers all human subspecies, the anatomically modern humans article, not the human article, only covers Homo sapiens sapiens. Editor abcdef (talk) 22:04, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

The point is still this article is no more scientific than the human and anatomically modern human article, and the content is practically the same. Editor abcdef (talk) 11:33, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Then wouldn't it be better to merge AMH into here? Unless they are not really synonyms. FunkMonk (talk) 16:18, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Sharing a video on this topic - can it be added to this page?

http://www.cbc.ca/greathumanodyssey/episodes/episode-1-rise-of-a-species Ottawahitech (talk) 00:18, 15 February 2015 (UTC)

No, only free videos can be uploaded to Wikipedia. Editor abcdef (talk) 08:34, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

Co-existant / same / separate?

1. In this article: Homo, homo sapiens, homo erectus, and homo habilis, amongst others, are all referred to as homo sapiens. Does this mean that all these Species evolved/branched from the super-family: hominoidea?

2. This article (Homo sapiens) seems to say that homo sapiens and homo sapiens sapiens both evolved about 2 mya, homo sapiens evolving from homo erectus. Yet from the article on homo erectus they also emerged about 2 mya.

3. The article on Anatomically modern humans says that homo sapiens sapiens evolved from homo sapiens as a sub-species 0.2 mya BUT the article says on homo sapiens" evolved between 1.8 mya - 0.2 mya.

Can someone clarify? My head's spinning.

LookingGlass (talk) 15:40, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Well, LookingGlass, you're going to have to be more specific about your first question, because I see nowhere in this article that calls those extinct species "Homo sapiens". Please give the exact passage(s) that does this. As for dates, as you can see they are all very rough estimates, so no date span given is essentially "wrong", but since they are so non-specific, there is going to be some variation here and there. So slow down your spinning head and enjoy reading these informative articles. And by the way, all humans are in the family Hominidae, which taxonomically falls under the superfamily Hominoidea, so it appears the the answer to your question about evolution is "yes". – Paine Ellsworth^CLIMAX! 09:48, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Merger proposal

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was no consensus. MartinZ02 (talk) 13:17, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

---

There is already a human article, there is no need for an article on this species's scientific name, if any objectors are going to say that the Homo sapiens article is more scientific, please point out the parts in this article that are more scientific than the human article, note that communication and culture is no more unscientific than taxonomy, since the common chimpanzee article also described their group structure and communication, yet there is no other article titled "Pan troglodytes". Editor abcdef (talk) 02:10, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose. Have you checked how long the Human article is? I see the Homo sapiens article as (at least supposedly) a scientific "spin-off" of the Human article. And since the Human article is so long, there should probably be more spin-offs as well. – Paine  00:31, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

You still haven't explained how this article is any more scientific than the human article. Also I failed to see how is article is any more than a summary of the history section of the human article. Editor abcdef (talk) 05:52, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

An explanation of this article's scientific content was not my aim, since I'm not a scientist, therefore not as qualified to do so as someone trained in biology and taxonomy. I do know that the very first sentence of the "Human" article seems to indicate that it should be mainly about modern humans and should be sketchy in its history section as regards any extinct subspecies of Homo sapiens. If you are correct and this article is a summary of the Human article's History section, then maybe the thing to do is to remove much of the content from that section and merge it into the Homo sapiens article? That history section should probably summarize the history of Homo sapiens sapiens for the most part, and the rest should go in this article with an obvious "Main article" link to this article. This article should perhaps cover in more detail what is known so far about H. s. idaltu and perhaps the Cro-Magnon and the Manot peoples. These are improvements that I would support. Thank you! and Best of everything to you and yours! – Paine  23:29, 27 April 2015 (UTC)

• Support Otherwise every other animal should have a separate article for each of their names. Nikki Lee 1999 (talk) 03:50, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
  • As they should, but only if their main-article pages are so long that the other names can become spinoff articles to shorten the main article. Thank you! and Best of everything to you and yours! – Paine  06:57, 30 April 2015 (UTC)
    • Disagreed. I mean, agree that they should have their own pages, but disagree on the issue of whether it's a long article, or not. Even if they're short articles, they can still have their own pages. That way, as knowledge increases, the pages are already labelled properly to accomodate. Any relation between subspecies can be mentioned throughout the pages in linear format, as they pertain to the branch they derive from. Knowledgebattle (talk) 06:59, 12 May 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose. What seriously?? No. We are Human (homo sapien sapien), which is a specific subset. If we combined all of the Homo Genus onto the Human page, people would not be able to follow. Pages should be labeled by specie, not genus. Knowledgebattle (talk • contribs) 06:58, 9 May 2015 (UTC)

What? No one is proposing to merge the entire Homo into the human article. Editor abcdef (talk) 05:14, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

Right, I understand that, but if we merge homo sapien with Human (homo sapien sapien), then what's stopping the merge of homo erectus with Human, as well? After all, they are the modern Human predecessor, so should we label them as how we currently identify? Negative, ghost rider. That would be just as silly. Knowledgebattle (talk) 06:54, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

The human article is not about Homo sapiens sapiens, the anatomically modern human article is, the human article is simply about the descriptions of Homo sapiens in general. Homo is the right article if you are looking for the "human" genus, hence your Homo erectus statement. Editor abcdef (talk) 06:57, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

Okay, well then I'd suggest getting in contact with some Biologists and posing the question to them, if we're looking for a clear answer. I'm not a Biologist, so I can't give that clear answer, I'm just saying that we refer only really to ourselves as being human. I think WP:COMMONNAME would dictate that's enough to only keep that which is commonly-referred to as the article which is labelled Human. Just my stinky opinion, and susceptible to error. Knowledgebattle (talk) 07:05, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose. Merge makes absolutely no sense when we have a separate article on anatomically modern humans with Homo sapiens sapiens redirecting there. If there's to be any merging going on, the subspecies should be merged before we consider merging the species. Plantdrew (talk) 19:18, 11 May 2015 (UTC)

'Oppose'- The Human article is clearly long enough as it is, a more plausible debate would be to split the Human page into other similar-but-different-enough pages — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.42.160.222 (talk) 19:33, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Meaning of "sapiens"

I am reverting back a recent reversion to an edit of the phrase "homo sapiens". The issue at stake is the meaning of the word sapiens. Any Latin dictionary will confirm that "sapere" is the Latin word for "to know", and "sapiens" is the present participle form of that verb. Thus "sapiens" means "knowing", just as "potens" means "powerful" ("able to do") or "tenens" means "holding".Wwallacee (talk) 05:00, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

No problem. Editor abcdef (talk) 06:00, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

I see an increasing tendency to create a false singular "sapien". "Sapiens" is the singular, and "sapientes" would be the Latin plural.24.69.25.223 (talk) 19:40, 23 January 2017 (UTC)

Scowling Chap in the Photo

I always think articles like this about core aspects of humanity are better suited to a more optimistic tone, and I can't but think help that the man in the photo brings the whole thing down a notch. I'm not unsympathetic to his plight (whatever it is) but I think someone should start a crowdfunding campaign, rather than put him in this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.175.15.57 (talk) 02:12, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

It's a good picture, I think. I also think that it might be your background that helps you misinterpret the man's facial expression as a scowl. I see it as the same look of mistrust for photographers seen all over the globe. Be prosperous! Paine  17:37, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Humes from Final Fantasy?

Humes from Final Fantasy look like Homo Sapiens from Neanderthals?

A clue please? 112.209.65.184 (talk) 13:02, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 January 2016

There's something wrong with the infobox on this page, it's showing some code such as "colspan=2 style="text-align: center; background-color: " . 2A02:8084:9360:3780:141:A29C:2CFA:4D6F (talk) 15:13, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for opening this discussion! I am unable to duplicate what you see either in desktop or mobile versions. I've checked all the meta templates used and none of them have been recently edited in a way that would cause this issue. Where precisely in the infobox do you see the superfluous code?  Paine  20:04, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Yeah it's fixed for me too. It was probably just a glitch somewhere. Nevermind. 2A02:8084:9360:3780:141:A29C:2CFA:4D6F (talk) 20:31, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Okay! and please consider the creation of an account of your own! Happy New Year! Paine  21:11, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Homo Sapiens in popular culture anyone?

Humans come from Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens, do they appear in Final Fantasy, Warcraft and other series? 112.209.28.192 (talk) 00:10, 5 January 2016 (UTC) hgsdughfdguuidsgfuisdgfiufgudgfdusgfsdufgusdfgsdufgsduf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.91.188.236 (talk) 07:41, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Yeah, no.--Elmidae (talk · contribs) 16:00, 15 November 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 January 2016

Laurenhauerslev (talk) 00:47, 22 January 2016 (UTC) there homo sapien sapiens~

Laurenhauerslev (talk) 00:47, 22 January 2016 (UTC)lauren

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Cannolis (talk) 01:17, 22 January 2016 (UTC)

"Homo sapiens sapiens"

Is this a proper academic term for the taxonomic classification of AMHs? Why doesn't the AMH article mention this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Editguy111 (talk • contribs) 00:38, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

It does, in the second paragraph of the lede, and in the Taxobox. {The poster formerly known as 87.81.230.195} 94.12.94.189 (talk) 23:47, 7 February 2017 (UTC)

Link for Reference# 15 is dead

Link for "Modern human origins" - linked to " http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/pdf_extract/241/4867/772 " is dead.

Here is the correct link that I found.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/241/4867/772

Compunuts (talk) 17:59, 10 January 2017 (UTC)

To editor Compunuts: The new URL you gave has been added and the dead link has been removed. Thank you very much for your help with this!  Paine Ellsworth  ^{put'r there}  03:56, 4 March 2017 (UTC)

Homo sapiens aresensis

Hi, its been suggested that this be the technical name for any humans born on Mars (presumably from future colonization). As due to the low gravity and other issues these humans would possibly speciate then we could end up with a hypothetical situation similar to how Neanderthals and H.sapiens were unable to reproduce much of the time.

I've calculated that speciation might occur around the 22nd century after 5-6 generations due to issues like radiation, change in muscle mass (turns out to be less of a problem than first thought), build etc. 7 foot tall humans might actually be feasible!