User talk:MrSativa

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Your edits[edit]

Information.svg Please do not add commentary or your own personal analysis to Wikipedia articles, as you did to Christine Maggiore. Doing so violates Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy and breaches the formal tone expected in an encyclopedia. Thank you. MastCell Talk 20:32, 2 December 2008 (UTC)

Land reform in Zimbabwe[edit]

Do you have a reference/source for the two billion pound figure (Lancaster House commitment)? If so, it would help. Babakathy (talk) 13:41, 28 December 2008 (UTC)


We already have Samuel R. Caldwell. Feel free to improve it. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 15:35, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Ugandan Constitution of 1995[edit]

For your information, MrSativa,

Thank you for creating the section, Ugandan Constitution of 1995, in the article, LGBT rights in Uganda. It is a valid point of view that should be present in Wikipedia.

I believe that you assert that protection against discrimination on the grounds of sex renders anti-homosexual laws unconstitutional. I challenge the assertion with my reason given on the talk page. Because of Wikipedia's policy of verifiability, I suggest that the assertion needs to be supported by a reference to a reliable source in order to be part of the article.

I welcome discussion about this.

  • If you want to discuss this with me one-on-one, you could reply here.
  • If you want to discuss this with editors interested in LGBT rights in Uganda, you could reply at Talk:LGBT rights in Uganda.
  • If you want to discuss this with more editors, I suggest we could start a section at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject LGBT studies. The WikiProject has lots of editors who are enthusiastic about LGBT issues.

--Kevinkor2 (talk) 16:05, 26 May 2010 (UTC)


Hi MrSativa,

I reverted your edits to HIV, as they appeared to be your own personal synthesis of information, which is prohibited by Wikipedia's policy on original research. There might be room in in the article for criticism of the idea that circumcision reduces HIV transmission, but such criticism needs to be cited to a reliable source that explicitly discusses circumcision and HIV transmission. The article you cited did not mention HIV or AIDS in its discussion or conclusion, and did not mention circumcision at all. (Although it was an interesting article, and I'm glad your edit drew my attention to it.)

Cheers, Adrian J. Hunter(talkcontribs) 04:03, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Hawass and the BMJ article[edit]

You can't use the BMJ article to argue something not in the article - the article doesn't mention Bantu nor draw any conclusions about E1b1a not in the article. Please read WP:NOR. You also should read WP:WORDS. Dougweller (talk) 20:46, 12 October 2013 (UTC)

MrSativa (talk) 06:14, 13 October 2013 (UTC) Dear Doug Weller,

I did no such thing. The fact is that dr. Zahi Hawass signed off on the study in question (his name is at the top of the paper), and the study identifies the haplogroup of Ramses III and his son as E1b1a. The Haplogroup E1b1a is associated with the Bantu Migrations. That does not have to be in the article, it is a generally accepted fact (look at the E1b1a page, or at the Genographic Project). However, the Bantu Migrations are usually dated as starting around 1000 BC, but Ramses III reigned in the 12th century BC. (I would have linked to the Bantu Expansion page, but it is very apartheid era South African in tone.)

I don't understand what conclusions I drew that were not in the article. Haplogroup E1b1a is what it is, and the article states that Ramses III and his son's haplogroup are E1b1a.

No, you are suggesting something that is not in Hawass's article. Why are you even adding this? Dougweller (talk) 20:54, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
MrSativa (talk) 00:24, 14 October 2013 (UTC)Why do you keep removing this information? You assert without proof that "you are suggesting something that is not in Hawass' article". What exactly am I suggesting that is not in the BMJ article?
Um, you made the edit, I've asked you why you are adding it, particular under a section about Hawass and Afrocentrism. Are you going to give me the courtesy of my answer? The article doesn't mention the Bantu.[1] nor does this report of the article[2]. What more proof do you need? That's original research. You can ask about this at WP:NORN if you think policy justifies your edit. Dougweller (talk) 08:08, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
MrSativa (talk) 12:50, 14 October 2013 (UTC)Dear Doug Weller,

Thanks for the extra link. You stated:

" The article doesn't mention the Bantu.[1] nor does this report of the article[2]. "

I think you are unfamiliar with today's DNA, and haplogroups. The article mentions:

" Genetic kinship analyses revealed identical haplotypes in both mummies (table 1.); using the Whit Athey’s haplogroup predictor, we determined the Y chromosomal haplogroup E1b1a. "

It mentions E1b1a. E1b1a is the haplogroup that is associated with the Bantu Expansion. That is not 'my claim', that is the claim of everyone involved in genetics today. That is why I added a source from the Genebase Tutorial, but I could have added information from the Genographic Project, Wikipedia's own E1b1a page, or anything else.

What is E1b1a, other than THE Bantu haplogroup? What is E1b1b, other than the Afro-Asiatic language expansion haplogroup? I'm sorry that you are unaware of these facts.

I quote:

" Genebase Tutorial - Learning Center

" E1b1a (M2) is prevalent throughout Africa, except in North Africa. It peaks in West Africa and is associated with the spread of agriculture or new farming methods by the Bantu to Sub-Saharan and Equatorial Africa regions, where it especially prevalent. The Bantu migration and dispersal of E1b1a (M2) appears to have reached as far as South Africa. "

None of that does anything to show this is not WP:NOR. As I said, you can go to WP:NORN about it. Dougweller (talk) 16:32, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
MrSativa (talk) 04:06, 15 October 2013 (UTC) I quote from the WP:NOR page you referred to: " Wikipedia articles must not contain original research. The phrase "original research" (OR) is used on Wikipedia to refer to material—such as facts, allegations, and ideas—for which no reliable, published sources exist.[1] " Are you claiming that no reliable published sources exist for the fact that E1b1a is the haplogroup associated with the Bantu Expansion? Read the Genebase tutorial above. Do you have a source that E1b1a is NOT associated with the Bantu Expansion? I would say I have provided ample links that it is. I don't know what your argument is. Is it that the article doesn't mention E1b1a? Or that E1b1a is not associated with the Bantu Expansion, as the Genebase tutorial states?
You didn't see "Articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position not clearly advanced by the sources themselves."? One source doesn't mention the Bantu, the other doesn't mention Ramses III. Dougweller (talk) 08:38, 15 October 2013 (UTC)
MrSativa (talk) 01:36, 17 October 2013 (UTC) Are you saying that the Hawass article doesn't state that Ramses III and his son are haplogroup E1b1a? Or that the Genebase tutorial doesn't say that E1b1a is associated with the Bantu Expansion? Both positions are "clearly advanced by the sources themselves". The equivalence is mentioning that the sun rises in the east - and also sets in the west. Ramses III is E1b1a, and E1b1a is the haplogroup associated with the Bantu Expansion. That is not new analysis or synthesis, it is merely underlining the obvious.
Then take it to WP:NORN. Dougweller (talk) 15:24, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

October 2013[edit]

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At the end, sir. Please sign all comments at the end. We know where they start. Please sign at the end! 13:14, 24 October 2013 (UTC) [how wonderfully ironic. I used an incorrect number of ~ characters. My apologies. Fiddle Faddle 16:19, 24 October 2013 (UTC)

Mary Lefkowitz[edit]

Mary Lefkowitz on your watchlist? I assume Black Athena is but her article doesn't seem to have many active watchers, and I think needs more given today's edits. Thanks. Doug Weller (talk) 09:45, 31 August 2015 (UTC)

Image removal[edit]

Why did you remove an image from Human skin color with this edit? You didn't provide a reason so I reverted it. If you reply and don't get a response, please add a {{whisperback}} to my talk page, as I'm using a computer that others have access to. --  Kethrus |talk to me  12:18, 30 October 2015 (UTC)

I removed the image, because old Apartheid classifications have no place in a modern article about DNA. Coloured was a designation for anyone who did not fit into the other Apartheid categories of European, African and Asian. Which would include most South Africans, because the Apartheid ideology in 1948 was trying to re-write 300 years of South African history. There is too much old thinking allowed in this article on the breathtakingly new science of human genetics. Can you justify a South African era classification in a page on dna and skintone in the year 2015? Including an image of a South African extended 'Coloured family' does not show where their genes come from. It also tries to re-introduce or continue Apartheid classifications and ideology which should be dead and buried by actual genetics. Why not include Eugen Fischer's photographic 'studies' of the Coloured populations of Namibia as well? MrSativa (talk) 12:31, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
Please read the hatnote on the Coloured article, and the comment on the image you removed "NOTE: "Coloured" does not mean the same thing as "colored" in this case; check the respective Wikipedia articles for further detail". Also, in future please don't assume bad faith, thanks. --  Kethrus |talk to me  12:46, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
I will 'presume' bad faith, whenever anyone tries to resuscitate Apartheid jargon and ideology in a scientific article. What other conclusions do you think people would draw. What is next, a section on Eugen Fischer in the DNA section?MrSativa (talk) 15:27, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Egyptian DNA[edit]

You're forgetting to sign, a problem I always have. Moved your comment to the bottom and dealt with all those references. Doug Weller (talk) 18:51, 14 November 2015 (UTC)

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ArbCom elections are now open![edit]

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Ramses 3[edit]

This guy Doug Weller seems to wish to hide the data on Ramses 3. From what I am learning this was not his first attempt at excluding this info. Allanana79 (talk) 06:44, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Yup. I have been trying to get the FamilyTree DNA data about Tutankhamon included, but it is also getting excluded for there allegedly being 'no peer review'. That is the first time I heard of that requirement. They are actively excluding anything that doesn't maintain the western mythology about Africa, no matter what the evidence says. MrSativa (talk) 00:44, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

What can we do? They have now taken the data off of DNA history of Egypt. Including Ramses 3 DNA results. I'm new to this. Editing Wikipedia. Allanana79 (talk) 18:38, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

I don't understand. It only proves that their is a conspiracy at hiding this information and always has been. One can see this in real time by observing Wikipedia. Thus this validates the Afrocentric claim that there exists a conspiracy. I wish I had a computer I would be on top of this all the time. Allanana79 (talk) 18:42, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Read WP:VERIFY and WP:RS. I thought conspiracies were supposed to be done secretly? Doug Weller talk 19:04, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

I mean it's not like you are gonna say "I'm doing this because...." It just feels like you know the truth but are actively hiding it. That would be secretively. Allanana79 (talk) 20:55, 25 December 2015 (UTC)

Some people are very fond of the 'Greek Miracle', which is an ex nihilo version of history. When they really can't get around the precedence of Egypt, they invoke a 'categorical difference' (Bloom, Lefkowitz) of anything Greek. They don't want to admit that a) most culture around the Mediterranean was borrowed from Ancient Egypt - and I do mean across the board, religion, philosophy, architecture, mathematics, language, dance, politics, statecraft, were all borrowed from Ancient Egypt. And that b) this civilisation was a Black African civilisation, right down to their language (Afro-Asiatic which originates in East Africa, and yet there are also linguistic and genetic links with Bantu language families whose E1b1a also originates in East Africa), their genes (E1b1a - the haplogroup of the Bantu Expansion, shared by Ramses III and his son, extremely likely Tutankhamon too). The people who live in say the Delta today are not necessarily the same people who lived there 3,000 years ago. And we can know this from looking at both's DNA.MrSativa (talk) 21:01, 27 December 2015 (UTC)
I don't know anything about a 'Greek Miracle." As for linguistic affinities, "Egyptian belongs to the Hamito-Semitic family of languages.3 It has affinities with Hamitic languages such as Beja, Berber, and Oromo, and with all the Semitic languages, including Akkadian, Arabic, and Hebrew."[3] Doug Weller talk 18:30, 2 September 2016 (UTC)
Dear Douglas, there is no such thing as a Hamito-Semitic language family. Unless you live in the 1950s. There are or were no Hamites. The language family is called Afro-Asiatic. Afro-Asiatic is South-, Central- and East Cushitic, Omotic, Beja, Semitic (in East Africa, the Sudan-Somalia-Ethiopia region), Hausa (West Africa), Berber (Northwest Africa) and Ancient Egyptian (Northeast Africa). Of these 9 language families, only Semitic is spoken outside of Africa. In fact, Semitic is most complex and therefore older in East Africa, less so in Southern Arabia, less so in the Levant, and the least complex in Mesopotamia. This clearly shows that Semitic is an Afro-Asiatic language of East African origin, like the other Afro-Asiatic languages. Not coincidentally, haplogroup E1b1b spread with the Afro-Asiatic languages, the way E1b1a spread with the Bantu languages. MrSativa (talk) 03:33, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

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Original research at Ramses III[edit]

You should know that we don't interpret our sources or add material not in them. Even our article on the Haplogroup doesn't call it the "Bantu expansion haplogroup", as I obviously said in my edit summary. Doug Weller talk 12:35, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

And when I added several different sources for both widely established facts, i.e. that Ramses III is haplogroup E1b1a, and that E1b1a is associated with the Bantu Expansion, you still called it 'original research'. It sounds to me that you are trying to withhold from the Wikipedia reader, the significance and context of haplogroup E1b1a. Just for clarity, are you saying that haplogroup E1b1a is NOT associated with the Bantu Expansion? Are you a science denier? And since when is it the standard that everything has to be in the same article, or it is 'original research'? I need to talk to another administrator about this. MrSativa (talk) 03:01, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

September 2016[edit]

Information icon Hello. This is a message to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions, such as the edit you made to Randi Rhodes, did not appear constructive and have been undone. Please take some time to familiarise yourself with our policies and guidelines. You can find information about these at our welcome page which also provides further information about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. If you only meant to make test edits, please use the sandbox for that. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page. Thank you. ~ Junior5a (Talk) Cont 21:47, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Randi Rhodes birth name was Buten, not Bueten. How is correcting this fact 'not constructive'? Your removal of the change is 'not constructive'. How do you know her name is Bueten, and not Buten? MrSativa (talk) 22:05, 16 September 2016 (UTC)

Information icon Hello, I'm Doug Weller. I noticed that you made a change to an article, Cro-Magnon, but you didn't provide a reliable source. It's been removed and archived in the page history for now, but if you'd like to include a citation and re-add it, please do so! If you need guidance on referencing, please see the referencing for beginners tutorial, or if you think I made a mistake, you can leave me a message on my talk page. If you can't show that the source says "black" then you are at best adding original research - but since you were already reverted before with an edit summary saying the sources don't show "black"..... Doug Weller talk 20:36, 28 September 2016 (UTC)