Talk:Middle class

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Unclear

The last paragraph of current usage is gramaticly uncertain.

From the statistics quoted I would draw the inference that "working class" has negative conotations in the US, and that "middle class" has negative conotations in the UK.

That is also the case anecdotaly.

However that is not how it is worded in the article. we also need some references. Jmackaerospace (talk) 13:20, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Collars

From my experience the terms "white collar" and "blue collar" are almost exclusively American, yet in this article they seem to be contrasted with the expansion of American middle class. I may be incorrect, but I feel the wording should be changed.82.41.15.93 (talk) 13:42, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

From my experience your experience is geographically limited. "White" and "blue" collar appear often in Anglophone literature of class and stratum; in Australian English they're typical shorthand for occupational and some cultural features (strata / Weberian class). Fifelfoo (talk) 00:50, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

The term collar aint used in UK.. so yeah the article is too general and needs revamped and clarified.

--Andymcgrath (talk) 09:09, 05 December 2009 (UTC)

current govt usage

It would be helpful to add a paragraph about what the US govt considers "middle class", for instance when they want to cut taxes for the so-called middle class. It seems they would include 95% of the populace.--dunnhaupt (talk) 22:10, 11 February 2009 (UTC)

American use of the terms middle and working class

It should be pointed out that in the USA, the term middle class is often used to describe what would usually be called working class in other countries. --195.0.221.197 (talk) 11:50, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

I strongly concur. The way these terms are contrasted in the article seems to me inappropriate based on common usage.

--Mcorazao (talk) 15:11, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Indeed thats true. What constitutes as working class in the UK, would be the equivalent of middle class in the US. While middle class in UK, is the equivalent of upper class in US. The article doesnt explain this, the usage of the term is different for each nation.

Many from the US who would describe themselve middle class, wouldn't meet the criteria (wealth or social standing) to be middle class in UK, hence most would be working class. Using my own example as an Accountant (and earnings), i consider myself working class in UK, but in US i would probably be deemed "upper middle class" (a term not used in UK). Essentially there is an inflation of the term Middle class in the US that the article does not touch upon.

--Andymcgrath (talk) 08:56, 05 December 2009 (UTC)

Proposed removal: Geographic terms

Unless there are references to support it I believe the "Geographic Terms" section needs to go. It is not true that

• The terms "Middle America" or "Middle England" were coined to associate these geographic areas with the Middle Class.
• People generally make this association. Although some people may make this association, that interpretation is not widespread enough to make such sweeping statements (and certainly not enough to justify a whole section).
• These regions of their respective nations are more Middle Class than other sections.

The references that are provided in this section appear to support specific statements but not the overall thesis of the section. From what I have read it is true that "Middle Australia" is commonly used to refer to Middle Class Australia but then "Middle Australia" is not actually a geographic term. Similarly occasionally some authors may use "Middle America" to refer to the Middle Class United States but then they are not using it as a geographic term. Arguing that this justifies the section is an equivocation (a type of logical fallacy).

--Mcorazao (talk) 15:11, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Language in 'Marxism and the middle class.'

"Marxism defines social classes..."

It lacks clarity and intellectual integrity to refer to particular or frequent lines of thought coming out of a long-lasting, diverse school of though as all-inclusive of all writers of the tradition. Not all Marxists think the same, by any stretch of imagination or rhetoric. This section must be clear who defines one thing or another in this or that manner.

If no one is able or willing to be specific, in the text, as to who wrote such things, then in the very least the language must be altered - a person, a single work with multiple authors, even an organization, can define a thing, but a broad, incohesive school of thought cannot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Shaunmwilson1 (talk • contribs) 02:36, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Professional class

The professional class are a middle class group of professionals who are distinguished from other social groups by training and education (typically business qualifications and university degrees). Examples of such professions include academics, architects, engineers, lawyers, accountants, physicians, dentists, pharmacists, registered nurses, nurse practitioners, physician assistants, psychologists, sociologists, some non-corporate business-owners, economists, political scientists and other so-called "hard" scientists . Persons of this group tend to have incomes above the average for their country.

1. Nadbank page doesn't exist
2. US BL doesn't mention class
3. No page ref (also, its not an academic work on class)

As all citations fail cite-check, moved to Talk: Fifelfoo (talk) 14:44, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Clean up

This article is not as well structured and sourced as it deserves to be, and it needs development. It's a major topic, which averages over 700 views a day, so should be (and could be) better than it currently is. Indeed, the organisation of articles about social class in general need sorting out as there is a fair bit of duplication, dicdef and personal opinion scattered around these articles - a number could be merged. I'm prepared to work on this for a bit to help start it on the right track - I have done some political and social studies so have a loose grasp of some of the concepts, and know a few of the major authors to use for authoritative cites - but I am not an expert, so I may get things wrong. Any help in shaping the article would be much appreciated. SilkTork *^YES! 17:34, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

The difference what constitutes Middle class in UK to US

Thats the most notable thing from my perspective that needs to be pointed out. Most of those who are deemed middle class in US would only meet the criteria (earnings/social standing) of being working class if they lived in the UK. Also the middle class in UK are seen as being posh, hence many people prefer to term themselves as working class.

--Andymcgrath (talk) 08:56, 05 December 2009 (UTC)

"middle class" is a false term in the USA

In the United Stated of America the term "middle class" is used by politicians to avoid saying "working class" or "working poor". There are fewer and fewer in the "middle" in the USA. The gap between the "haves" and "have nots" is getting greater. There term "middle class" is insignificant.