Talk:Race (human categorization)

France

3.3.3 (France) appears to be copying the cited article word-for-word. The article is also rather outdated, from 2001, (before immigration surged in Europe) and claims France to be about 5% non-white, despite there being no official statistics on race in France (while estimates put it at around or over 15%; the country being 7-9% muslim alone). Its comparison to the United States also rather lacks relevance. I would say to remove the section since there is already one on the European Union.

Also, the phrase "non-European and non-white" seems to denote 'European' as a demonym referencing ethnicity, not nationality, as if those deemed 'non-white' cannot be European? Are non-whites in France not French/European? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:186:4301:20E:3598:8DE7:5C:28D0 (talk) 20:42, 27 January 2019 (UTC)

Just noting that this complaint was addressed by Doug Weller on January 27th with this edit. ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants Tell me all about it. 17:37, 11 February 2019 (UTC)

Just noting that Von Clown was a sock of the racist Mikemikev

Who left me, using an IP with an obscene talk page message yesterday.[1] Lovely guy. Doug Weller talk 09:43, 5 May 2019 (UTC)

More recent research shows natural differences in race

More recent genetic research shows that we can now predict geographic ancestry almost with 100% accuracy: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1893020/#bib1

This is not to say that race is not a social construct (as almost anything is, including color shades), but it is an important point to add. This confirms that it is false that we might select inter-population genetic samples which are more genetically similar than intra-population samples, as was, and is still widely disseminated.

There are clear differences between our apparent selection of races, both empirically and genetically. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Weagesdf (talk • contribs) 23:57, 8 June 2019 (UTC)

Per the source's abstract:

...Phenotypes controlled by a dozen or fewer loci can therefore be expected to show substantial overlap between human populations. This provides empirical justification for caution when using population labels in biomedical settings, with broad implications for personalized medicine, pharmacogenetics, and the meaning of race.

And in the last paragraph:

The fact that, given enough genetic data, individuals can be correctly assigned to their populations of origin is compatible with the observation that most human genetic variation is found within populations, not between them. It is also compatible with our finding that, even when the most distinct populations are considered and hundreds of loci are used, individuals are frequently more similar to members of other populations than to members of their own population. Thus, caution should be used when using geographic or genetic ancestry to make inferences about individual phenotypes.

Grayfell (talk) 01:38, 9 June 2019 (UTC)

Everyone knows that races overlap on traits. Who is this supposed to be arguing against? There are average differences though right? Some differences even tend towards fixation. Is this supposed to be refuting some imaginary race realist that thinks races are 100% homogeneous? Essentially Dave (talk) 13:00, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

— Essentially Dave (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Sources please, this is not a WP:FORUM. —PaleoNeonate – 13:05, 10 June 2019 (UTC)

You want me to provide sources for something literally nobody thinks? The strawman constructor has the burden to show his opponents think what he accuses them of, which he won't be able to. Essentially Dave (talk) 13:30, 10 June 2019 (UTC)