User talk:CanterburyUK

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Welcome to Wikipedia, CanterburyUK! I am Emilyzilch and have been editing Wikipedia for quite some time. I just wanted to say hi and welcome you to Wikipedia! If you have any questions, feel free to leave me a message on my talk page or by typing {{helpme}} at the bottom of this page. I love to help new users, so don't be afraid to leave a message! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Oh yeah, I almost forgot, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); that should automatically produce your username and the date after your post. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome! ناهد/(Nåhed) _speak! 22:33, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

thanks EmilyZilch for the welcome!

I'm wondering if I'm going about things the right way - on a page where I've been doing some editing, another person has twice summarily removed some of what I'd added. I've asked them in the Discussion page to explain why: but had a one line answer that didn't explain. Is there anything else I can do to try to understand? No-one else has chipped in to explain either, so maybe this person is on their own in their approach to editing?

Not sure you get the time to check things out... if you do, take a look at the [[Honour Killings] page. Thanks CanterburyUK (talk) 21:45, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

I'd be happy to try to see what is going on but right now there's a lot going on at Honor killing... can you link a Diff that shows a revert that is confusing to do? ناهد/(Nåhed) _speak! 02:05, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

That was a quick response - thanks. Have a look at the Discussion page for honour killings, the section headed 'Itaqallah - why do you keep deleting stuff, with little explanation?'.

regards a diff...umm...not sure if this URL will work, but try this: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Honor_killing&diff=239785683&oldid=239680881CanterburyUK (talk) 21:36, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Please read Wikipedia:No original research, which disallows use of primary sources to make deductions or claims. There is no verifiable reason to believe any of the mentioned texts relate to "honour killing" in any way, as I have articulated many times on the talk page. You have also been removing other material which doesn't seem to be mentioned anywhere else in the article, on the basis that it's a 're-hash'. Please explain this in more detail on the talk page. ITAQALLAH 11:48, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

I've read it. But the Holy Book section you deleted does not make deductions or claims from the primary sources. Wikipedia:No original research says 'anyone—without specialist knowledge—who reads the primary source should be able to verify that the Wikipedia passage agrees with the primary source.' That is the case with the religious section.

What content are you concerned about, saying 'You have also been removing other material...' ?

References

Hi. Just wanted to pop in and leave a quick note about removing material. Look at the refs that might be embedded and if there's one that's "named" (usually so it can be used again with that name) it probably is used more than once. So removing the "anchor" (the ref fields with the ref name) reference destroys the necessary fields for those refs that use the "name". Cheers E_dog95' ^{Hi '} 01:08, 15 September 2008 (UTC)

Right! You'll see that Honor killing got broken by your edits. Please do take a look. --Adoniscik^{(t, c)} 07:47, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Samia Sarwar

Good work there. I'm glad that you are writing this.

One thing I noticed is the sentence "Firstly, some claim that honour killings only occur among rural or uneducated groups...". This should be attributed to a person or group.

This is merely a friendly thank you (for writing the article) and a heads up before a less friendy editor comes by and causes a ruckus. E_dog95' ^{Hi '} 00:05, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the nice words. I've followed your advice and added a sourceCanterburyUK (talk) 02:56, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Honor Killing

The editors working on this article are playing (very strictly) by the book.

The first night that I began working on the references for that article I ran across the case of the Egyptian's from Texas. At that time it was just a few days old and I was surprised to see an incident so close to home. Their last name is Said. There has been coverage in magazines, televisions, and books. The two daughters that were killed went to Lewisville High School. I worked on that article recently and saw that an editor had included the incident. I updated the references there. One item that I found was in a book called Dark Night of the Soul. There's also this article. I'm sure there are quite a few more regarding this specific case.

So I just wanted to bring these to your attention. I do think it's good to have specific examples of honor killing mentioned in the article. Those other editors, like I said, are adhering to the rules very closely. E_dog95' ^{Hi '} 01:40, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

Ways to improve Shakeel Begg

Hi, I'm Rasimmons. CanterburyUK, thanks for creating Shakeel Begg!

I've just tagged the page, using our page curation tools, as having some issues to fix. This article seems to cast its subject in an extremely negative light without enough context for readers to develop a fair opinion on him. It would be best to change the language to be a little more neutral.

The tags can be removed by you or another editor once the issues they mention are addressed. If you have questions, you can leave a comment on my talk page. Or, for more editing help, talk to the volunteers at the Teahouse. R. A. Simmons ^Talk 19:42, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

Neutrality

Hey, I see you removed the POV tag from the article again. I understand the difficulty in discussing a possible religious extremist in a neutral way, however the wording of the article itself uses some loaded language and makes unsubstantiated claims.

E.g. from the introduction: "He is extremely influential among followers of hardline conservative Islam in the UK.". Is he? How do we know this? How do we justify the use of language like "extremely influential" instead of merely saying "influential"?

I'm not having a dig, I'm just saying this article needs a great deal of work in maintaining neutrality, as well as some formatting too. I'm happy to try and help though. I've not got a great deal of experience in actually writing articles. The only article I've written was about an extinct scorpion and I ended up with a part of it was removed for being incorrectly sourced.

The POV tag was added because in reading this I don't get the sense that I'm merely reading about an unpleasant person, but I'm reading something written by someone who intensely dislikes this person, and that's not how wikipedia is meant to be written. Your choice of words suggests for instance that there's doubt over his university qualifications. The tag will be re-added: two other wikipedians have now said it needs work on the neutrality and you shouldn't remove the tag until after it's been discussed, not because you've looked over your own work and think it's neutral. As far as I can tell User:rasimmons has not had a chance to discuss the tag with you before you removed it earlier. It's very hard to accurately assess your own writing, some of the stuff I've had friends pick up in my own that I've missed is mind boggling.

I also feel that the use of constant block quotes, references to youtube videos and the structure of the sections in the article need some going over, though I'm going to have to spend some time in front of the WP:MANUAL before I know how to properly arrange stuff.

This is not personal, we're all just trying to make wikipedia the best it can be. Either respond here or on my talk page and we can work out how to bring this up to standard. Hedge89 (talk) 22:48, 28 October 2016 (UTC)

HI Hedge89: I've responded to you on the Talk page of Shakeel Beeg. I appreciate your input.

Political positions of Jeremy Corbyn

Hello. You appear to be involved in an edit war on Political positions of Jeremy Corbyn.

While the three-revert rule is hard and fast, please be aware that you can be blocked for edit warring without making 3 reverts to an article in 24 hours. You are not entitled to 3 reverts and edit wars may be slow-moving, spanning weeks or months. Edit wars are not limited to 24 hours.

If you are unclear how to resolve a content dispute, please see dispute resolution. You are expected to cooperatively engage other editors on talk pages rather than reverting their edits. Note that posting your thoughts on the talk page alone is not a license to continue reverting. You must reach consensus.

If you feel your edits might qualify as one of the small list of exceptions, please apply them with caution and ensure that anyone looking at your edits will come to the same conclusion. If you are uncertain, seek clarification before continuing. Quite a few editors have found themselves blocked for misunderstanding and/or misapplying these exceptions. Often times, requesting page protection or a sockppuppet investigation is a much better course of action.

Continued edit warring on Political positions of Jeremy Corbyn or any other article may cause you to be blocked without further notice. Tanbircdq (talk) 07:30, 11 August 2017 (UTC)

ANI

There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Tanbircdq (talk) 12:47, 12 August 2017 (UTC)

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WP:MEAT

Could you read over WP:MEAT.--Moxy (talk) 00:50, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Moxy - I've read it. I haven;t done anything listed there. What was your point?CanterburyUK (talk) 22:52, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Deletion discussion about Umar haque

Hello, CanterburyUK,

I wanted to let you know that there's a discussion about whether Umar haque should be deleted. Your comments are welcome at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Umar haque .

If you're new to the process, articles for deletion is a group discussion (not a vote!) that usually lasts seven days. If you need it, there is a guide on how to contribute. Last but not least, you are highly encouraged to continue improving the article; just be sure not to remove the tag about the deletion nomination from the top.

Thanks,

Slatersteven (talk) 11:52, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Slatersteven Thanks, I;ve contributed there. As I wrote there - hard to see on what basis this case is not noteworthy - every UK main media covered it in depth: and convictions in the UK for Terrorism are rare. And on top he was training a jihadi children's army.CanterburyUK (talk) 14:28, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

• Hi, In general, the best response - assuming you continue to believer that the subject is notable - is to improve the article. It can be helpful to look at teh way similar articles rated good are formatted and written. Cheers.E.M.Gregory (talk) 00:29, 5 March 2018 (UTC)

Drmies complains of disruptive editing

Please stop your disruptive editing.

• If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively you can read Wikipedia's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant notice boards.
• If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, seek assistance at Wikipedia's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

If you continue to disrupt Wikipedia, you may be blocked from editing. Drmies (talk) 18:18, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Drmies - That looked like boilerplate text. It would help me if you could write specifically what you refer to? I see Wiki lists 6 types of disruptive editing?CanterburyUK (talk) 20:05, 3 March 2018 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Message of Thaqalayn

The article Message of Thaqalayn has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

Appears to be a non-notable journal. I find only an announcement by an advertiser that it has been publishing for 17 years.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Yngvadottir (talk) 05:17, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

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Important notice

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have shown interest in articles about living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

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Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 22:20, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Please note that Jordan Peterson is covered by a one-revert rule restriction. Technically, you broke this rule earlier today, so I urge you to read up on it and exercise some care. Let me know if you have any questions. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 22:20, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

HI Firefangledfeathers Firefangledfeathers (talk)

thanks for posting -can you explain - I see only 1 revert? CanterburyUK (talk) 22:27, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Also -did you send the same warning today to Shibbolethink when he reverted my new content?

Or to ScottishFinnishRadish on the 6th, when he reverted the first text on this College of Psychiatrists issue? CanterburyUK (talk) 22:33, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Both of those users have reverted just once. You, however, reverted once to restore your preferred version of the Toronto college of psychologists section, and then again, to restore it after I put back the WP:STATUSQUO version. Hence, 2 reverts in 24 hours. While text is in dispute, it is best to keep the status quo version until a new version is agreed upon. This prevents edit wars. — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 22:44, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Shibbolethink

I was surprised to see your post appear on my talk page.

Especially in the middle of a dialogue with Firefangledfeathers about what THEY had written - not at all about you or anything you had one.

Is that common Wiki etiquette, to jump into other people's conversation, un-invited? CanterburyUK (talk) 23:23, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

@Shibbolethink: Hi Shibbolethink

seeing as you are now on my Talk page: can I nudge you to respond in the Peterson Talk page to the request I made there:

• "How about we cooperate more moving forward - to ensure a better dialogue in the future - would you be OK if we both agreed to answer any questions we put to each other (content questions of course)?"CanterburyUK (talk) 23:46, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Hi CanterburyUK,

• On the reverts, here's the deal: you added the OCP content on 6 January. It was removed by SFR. Your first series of edits today re-added some of the removed content, including the subsection and the comments from Poilievre. This counts as a revert. Your later edit re-added a bunch of content that Shibbo had removed, including the subsection heading and Poilievre's comments.
• Shibbo answered you already about what's different between you and the other two editors. Incidentally, SFR is already formally aware of BLP DS.
• Pings don't work unless you sign in the same edit as you add the ping. I highly recommend using Template:u or Template:ping rather than copying from a user's signature

Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 23:00, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

@Firefangledfeathers:HI Firefangledfeathers

thanks for taking the time to explain your thinking - But I'm still not getting it. Maybe I am missing something.

The first edit you link to was me putting up a bunch of NEW content and sources. It was not a revert.

The second version you point to -yes, that is the only Revert today that I consider I made. CanterburyUK (talk) 23:15, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

CUK, I think a number of your comments/concerns on the article talk page make sense and I suspect some of the gut concerns I have with articles like this are shared by you. That said, an admin once said they treated every page as if it had a 1 revert per day limit. Note a revert is any time you reverse, either exactly or roughly, an edit recently made by another editor. Some people think they are OK if they revert two different things rather than the same disputed content twice... nope, not OK. Also back to back edits count as 1 edit since they could have been done as part of 1 large edit vs a sequence of small ones. Anyway, the admin's point was two fold. No one can accuse you of edit warring if you only make 1 revert per day. Perhaps they can claim you are being too bold but not edit warring. Also, even if other editors get frustrated with talk page disagreements, they typically will be more amenable to compromises so long as you aren't making disputed changes to the article. But the other reason is that often you will be more successful if, after your edit is reverted, if you talk it out with the other editors. Sometimes you will get nowhere but if you are trying to make a change and two editors will revert it if you do, well you will hit the revert limit before they do and thus you can't win. However, if you are polite (and you seem to be) and talk without making article page changes, well, many editors will try to find a compromise with you. This is my long way of saying, even if you think the others are wrong, in the long run you will be more effective if you don't make edits to the article when it's reasonably clear others will reject them. Springee (talk) 23:27, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

@Springee:

Phew - my Talk page has never been so busy - now you too Springee are jumping in!

Thanks for being helpful.

"if you are polite (and you seem to be)"

• thank you -good to hear it comes across that way.

"you will be more effective if you don't make edits to the article when "

• Yes that is very helpful.

I guess today, the text I put up was so substantially different, in my mind, it was all new content.

Thanks for the advice! CanterburyUK (talk) 00:04, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

@Firefangledfeathers:

is this the 'ping format' -you suggested? CanterburyUK (talk) 23:17, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

It worked! Yes, the first link (to your edits from the 6th) is not a revert. The next two links are the reverts. Reverts are restoring disputed changes in whole or in part. Today, you twice restored bits of material that others had objected to. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 23:20, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

@Firefangledfeathers:HI Firefangledfeathers

I get it now - but still confused why you consider it a Revert.

On the 6th I posted 9 sourced links.

Reverted as one block by Shibbo.

Today I posted: 8 sourced links.

2 of which were the same as the 6th. The rest different.

All 8 were deleted by Shibbo, writing: "Wildly UNDUE, implemented without consensus"

It was those 8 today that I reverted.

Shibbo stated: "implemented without consensus" - are you saying they only meant the 2 of the 8? CanterburyUK (talk) 23:37, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

I doubt that's what Shibbolethink meant, but it doesn't affect the revert math. Partial restoration is a revert. I doubt anyone will seek out sanctions based on this—I certainly won't—but I'd be careful, were I you, not to make it the beginning of a pattern. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 00:46, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Please consider if your comments are likely to persuade editors. There is an issue that if you post too much on a talk page editors will feel you are bludgeoning the discussion. At some point you have to accept there is only so much convincing you can do. More sometimes ends up being less when it comes to talk page comments. Springee (talk) 23:41, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

thanks Springee -point taken! CanterburyUK (talk) 00:06, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

it does strike me as a shame that so few editors are active on the page - supposedly a high profile topic.

Reading around the many Wiki pages on how to edit - it's my impression that this page often fails to meet those guidelines: eg

• Improve, Don't Remove. If something doesn't meet Wikipedia's standards, try to fix the problem rather than just remove what's broken. (Nothing stops new contributors from coming back like having all their hard work end up in the bit bucket.)

CanterburyUK (talk) 00:13, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

That recommendation is typically not applied when it comes to WP:BLP pages, which have a higher standard for sourcing and inclusion. — Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 22:46, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

@Shibbolethink: Thanks for being helpful Shibbolethink.

Do you think it helps encourage involvement of a wider and more diverse set of editors - if that principle is set aside on the Peterson page?

For all that it is a high profile and controversial subject matter: I don't see the level of activity on tweaking the content, as that high profile would suggest. CanterburyUK (talk) 21:31, 11 January 2023 (UTC)

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have shown interest in gender-related disputes or controversies or in people associated with them. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect. Any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Wikipedia's policies, or the page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

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— Shibbolethink ^{(♔ ♕)} 13:32, 12 January 2023 (UTC)