User talk:WhatamIdoing

		The Random Acts of Kindness Barnstar
		You've put a lot of time and effort into advice and feedback for a new Wikipedian, and I'd like to think it's paying off. My thanks for all your efforts. Emrgmgmtca (talk) 12:03, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Translating foreign references

Hello, thanks for your comment about the foreign references. Since you did mention that they could/probably should be translated, I would like to do so. I was wondering, considering the FA criteria etc, what would be the best way to do such? Could I just translate them within the reference note like this:

REFERENCES

1.Croatian John Smith (2007-10-09) "Croatian story". Retrieved on 2008-08-14. Translation - 3rd paragraph: The Croatian national team has played games sine 1909 and had its first international game against Indonesia. This was during the first world war and all further Croatian teams ceased to exist after this game.

Would that be acceptable or would I need to use inline citations (which I have already posted help for because I have absolutely no idea how they work even after reading all the help articles!) Please get back to me ASAP. THANKS! Domiy (talk) 00:38, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Category based Bot Tagging

Hi there, I hope you remember expressing concerns regarding category based WikiProject tagging by bots here. I made this FAQ list which tries to answer some of your concerns. Let me know if you have any questions . Thanks -- Tinu Cherian - 11:33, 22 August 2008 (UTC)

Survey request

Hi, WhatamIdoing I need your help. I am working on a research project at Boston College, studying creation of medical information on Wikipedia. You are being contacted because you have been identified as an important contributor to one or more articles.

Would you will be willing to answer a few questions about your experience? We've done considerable background research, but we would also like to gather the insight of the actual editors. Details about the project can be found at the user page of the project leader, geraldckane. Survey questions can be found at geraldckane/medsurvey. Your privacy and confidentiality will be strictly protected!

The questions should only take a few minutes. I hope you will be willing to complete the survey, as we do value your insight. Please do not hesitate to contact me or Professor Kane if you have any questions. Thank You, BCproject (talk) 23:44, 24 August 2008 (UTC)

RfC

WhatamIdoing: Why did you make your post to Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Greg L? That was over an editorial dispute that originated on WT:MOSNUM. I note that you haven’t participated recently on WT:MOSNUM (at least not for the last 1000 edits). I note that you haven’t been active whatsoever on Wikipedia:Requests for comment (going all the way back to 2005) either.

Notwithstanding your complete and total absence from these two key forums, I note you made this edit to add the word “most” in order to indicate that *most* RfCs are ended after 30 days (via a bot). Yet 30 days and one-and-a-half hours after the previous post on the RfC, you added this comment to it in which you agreed with a summary by Quilbert. Why? How is it that you would know about that RfC and the events on MOSNUM given your absolute inactivity on those forums? I note no entries in the history of your talk page from anyone I recognize—certainly not Quilbert. Have you been corresponding with someone via e-mail on this RfC? Is this sort of behind-the-scenes activity permitted of someone who hopes to be an administrator? If there is any on-the-record correspondence on this issue that can you direct my attention to? Why would you post a comment 30 days and one-and-a-half hours after the previous post and then, on that same day, amend the whole Wikipedia:Requests for comment projects page that *most* RfCs are deleted after 30 days? Greg L (talk) 20:30, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

The RFC about yourself is listed on the usual page at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User conduct#Approved pages_.28users.29, which is how I found it. (Were you unaware that this list exists? May I encourage you to choose one or more of the RfCs languishing there for lack of outside opinion, and give yours?) I didn't happen to look at the dates before endorsing Quilbert's view.

I endorsed Quilbert's views because I agree with the major points there: While you (like many other editors) sometimes make "unfortunate" remarks about other editors or their work, you do seem to be a good editor. I also believe that you also fight for the overall good of Wikipedia (as you see it, of course), and I think it likely that this RfC is primarily motivated by the content dispute instead of your actual behavior -- although the occasional snippy comment certainly opened the door for the RfC, and you might find it strategically useful to be polite.

I know nothing about Quilbert and have had no communication with him/her. As to your accusation that my recent endorsement at your RfC constitutes impermissible activity for "someone who hopes to be an administrator", I hope you will note that I have not only provided you with the true and accurate public source of my information on your RfC, but also that you will read this talk page and its archive more closely, so that you will notice that I have repeatedly and directly refused offers of nomination for adminship and therefore should not be considered "someone who hopes to be an administrator".

As for closing RfCs: It appears that RfC/Us are never closed by the bot. It is not necessary to wait exactly 30 days for a user RfC. You will find the (IMO inadequate) description of normal closing here. An RfC/U can be closed by any uninvolved editor, and I fully expect that a human will not count one belated and unelaborated endorsement as a significant barrier to closing it. Looking at the archive's history, User:Wizardman seems to do most of this. Perhaps you will ask him to archive yours. I state for the record that I do not intend for my belated endorsement to interfere with that process.

My recent change to WP:RFC, by the way, can be explained by a recent conversation on the talk page, which you will find here. Since the bot never closes RfC/Us, surely you will agree with me that only "most" RfCs are closed by the bot after 30 days. (The bot, BTW, appears to close RfCs 30 days after their start, not 30 days after the last comment.) WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:24, 27 August 2008 (UTC)

• “…and you might find it strategically useful to be polite.” I see, you are alluding to something? On any RfC or ANI, I never endeavor to be “polite”, I simply try to tell it like it is while being A) civil, B) level-headed, and C) accurate. Now, what I still find to be highly significant is the following:

1. I can find no evidence that you’ve had anything to do with RfCs going back a long ways
2. I can find no evidence that you’ve had any involvement—ever—in the goings-on over at WT:MOSNUM
3. Yet, the very day I thoroughly roast an admin Ckatz at the bottom here, you have a sudden interest in an exceedingly long and tortuously laborious RfC that had languished for a month and then…
4. You take the time to post a comment there 30 days and 1.5 hours after the previous one.

Are you saying this behavior (reading through a month-old, lengthy RfC when your previous interest in RfCs has been slim to none) is purely normal and typical? That the timing of your sudden interest in this most remote of backwater issues is purely coincidental? That you focused on my RfC and none of the others on Wikipedia (?); not before and not since?

Do tell, have you ever heard of Ckatz? Given the entire history of your interests on Wikipedia over the years, your landing on my RfC is about as probable as stumbling across someone hiding deep on a Mandelbrot set. So *just pardon my all over the place* if I’m a bit skeptical of all of this.

…but then, that may be my fault; “my Intelligence Quotient is annoyingly low”  Greg L (talk) 02:50, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Greg, when looking at whether or not WhatamIdoing regularly participates in RfC, did you take a look through his/her contributions? I see the following: [1] yours [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] in just the past week. WhatamIdoing is a very active RfC contributor. -- Mark Chovain 03:43, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

• Indeed… extraordinarily active starting on the 26th. But I do see she has had periodic activity before then. So I will take back my claim that she has been non-existent on RfCs. Though I can’t prove there is a rat rotting in the ventilation system somewhere, the totality of this smells… *off*. I may be wrong. Like I said, just pardon my all over the place if I’m a bit skeptical of all of this. Accordingly, I’m not going to climb the Reichstag over it. Greg L (talk) 04:09, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh, come on! Wikipedia is not a conspiracy against you. Those links I've provided show a participation on the 21st, 25th and 26th (in my time zone, which is ahead of most). You say above that you are able to be civil, yet after your claim that you "can find no evidence that [this user] had anything to do with RfCs going back a long ways" has been shown to be complete bunkum (did you even look?), you still won't accept WhatamIdoing's explanation. Just wipe off the humble pie and move on.

If you even looked at the view that s/he endorsed, it is clear that it is saying that the issue is more of a content dispute than an issue with user conduct. If s/he were out to cause you grief, wouldn't they have endorsed a more critical view, or provided one themselves? Sheesh!

If anything smells ripe here, it's your refusal to assume good faith, even in the face of strong supporting evidence. -- Mark Chovain 06:20, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

• I figured someone would weigh in here with one of those trite “you know, the whole universe isn’t all organized to conspire against Greg L”-things. Too easy to say. Getting all of Wikipedia organized against Greg L: not possible. Getting a single friend to rip someone you don’t like on Wikipedia: happens all the damed time. You know that (or at least should). And of course I looked at the edit histories. I examined thousands of edits on the revision history of the Wikipedia:Requests for comment and saw one single edit that WhatamIdoing made—to say *most* RfCs are deleted after 30 days. And then (same day) she posts a comment to a tediously long RfC 30 days and 1.5 hours after the previous post. And all this is only hours after I flame an administrator. Interesting. But I see that there are other RfC forums she has weighed in on, so I was wrong on that point. Still, the timing of things and the coincidences here are improbable and smell a bit too *ripe*. The presumption of good faith does not require the suspension of common sense. But I can “prove” nothing so I’m dropping it. I won’t be weighing in here again on this issue again. Goodbye. Greg L (talk) 12:54, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Ah, a "looking in the wrong place" error. RfC/Us, like all subpages, are not actually part of the parent page and thus edits to them don't appear in the parent page's history. Greg, if you'd be paying a bit of attention, you might have noticed that my endorsement of a view at your RfC/U -- a view that you might recall having decided was actually favorable to you -- didn't turn up in the list, and that might have led you to suspect that no others did, either.

If you can calmly explain why you perceive my decision to endorse a favorable view at your RfC/U as an insult and an attack on you, I'd be happy to hear the story. Do you actually object to having outside editors agree that you're a good editor who was being unfairly targeted in a content dispute at MOSNUM? I see you admit here that you don't value politeness, so you can hardly be offended by someone else saying the same thing. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:27, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

---

What fascinating things I find in my inbox this morning:

RfC hanky panky
Wednesday, August 27, 2008 1:36 PM
From: "Greg L" <REMOVED>Add sender to Contacts
To: "WhatamIdoing" <REMOVED>

I have a awfully good idea why you made your edit when you did and at whose behest and via what channel of communication. If you would like me to go way-formal on this, I’d be perfectly pleased to do so. Go do the right thing please.

---
This e-mail was sent by user "Greg L" on the English Wikipedia to user "WhatamIdoing". It has been automatically delivered and the Wikimedia Foundation cannot be held responsible for its contents. If this e-mail is objectionable or you are unfamiliar with Wikipedia's EmailUser function, please read the following information:

The sender has not been given any information about your e-mail account and you are not required to reply to this e-mail. For further information on privacy, security, and replying, as well as abuse and removal from emailing, see <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Email>.

I really must remember to check my e-mail more often. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:57, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

ACCESS

I left you a note at WP:ACCESSIBILITY. I'm going to be traveling, and the change would need to be reflected on two other pages and included in the monthly update, so we've got to be sure about it (I left some questions), and get it updated elsewhere. Best regards, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 03:33, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia talk:No original research#Policy clarification proposal

WhatamIdoing, there seems to have been a misunderstanding about my proposal. Now that I've clarified it, could take another look at the it? Thank you. --Phenylalanine (talk) 20:34, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

You are right; I did not attend closely enough. Thanks for the clarification. WhatamIdoing (talk) 00:17, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Hi WhatamIdoing, I would appreciate any comments you might have on the discussion about my new proposal. Thanks. --Phenylalanine (talk) 11:40, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

I responded to your reply. Thanks for your discussion. --Phenylalanine (talk) 12:18, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

WhatamIdoing, I have decided to close the discussion on the NOR talk page. If you wish to pursue discussion, we can do so on my user page User:Phenylalanine/NOR policy clarification proposal. Thanks. --Phenylalanine (talk) 23:19, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Cookie

User:Florentino floro has given you a cookie! Cookies promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a cookie, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy munching!

Spread the goodness of cookies by adding {{subst:Cookie}} to their talk page with a friendly message.

--Florentino floro (talk) 07:48, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks

You edited Adrenal insufficiency today. I appreciate the change, works better. I would much appreciate if you could take a look at this one too ACTH stimulation test. Thanks Chrisgj (talk) 19:23, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for looking at it so quick and I was surprised how much needed to be done. You are a very valuable administrator. I saw your recommendations and will work on getting them implemented and I'll let you know later when I've reworked it. My goal is to reach B assessment. Thanks for the C. By the way, I made the chart. Chrisgj (talk) 21:44, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

I've been challenging Hypopituitary's (article recently reached GA) sources and lack of and though I show some sources don't at all support statements or a statement needs a source to back it up (the statement is way wrong so there won't be any source to find), the administrator overseeing it acts blind or something, calls what I'm saying, rhetoric. I'm wondering, why am I working so hard if the higher ratings are kept even when they are shown they should be taken back. The ratings and much more than that, the effort put into the better written articles, loose meaning if the standards are not upheld. If he's not holding up the standards, I wonder how many other administrators are also making up their own rules? Could there be wide spread corruption of undeserved high ratings being handed out? The wind is out of my sails. If anyone wants to tell me why I should keep putting my time and energy into Wikipedia, I'm listening. Chrisgj (talk) 01:16, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Hi Chris,

Thanks for your most recent note. I'm not sure how you managed to get off on the wrong foot with JFW at Talk:Hypopituitarism; maybe it's just that you weren't feeling well. (I hope you're feeling better now, but if not -- The encyclopedia will be here next week, or next month, so take a break and take care of yourself.) Here's my take on the current issues on that talk page. Let me know if I missed anything critical or if you'd like a semi-official Third Opinion on any specific issue.

Tumors

Certainly your own experience is not a reliable source for Wikipedia's purposes. It's possible that you hear from very few people with pituitary tumors simply because they're the ones that least need an advocate or an explanation. ("I feel sick because I have cancer!" is something that most people can basically understand on their own.) It would be interesting to see whether any similar studies exist. It's entirely possible that different countries have different rates, particularly if you're comparing Spain to, say, China or India. The only way to attack this is to present another approximately-as-good source that comes to a different conclusion.

Ignoring WIkipedia for a moment, it sounds like increasing numbers of pituitary apoplexy and other forms of necrotic tissue damage are being identified, so that "most" may drop over time. (See, for example, the first ref in the article, PMID 17467517)

ADH

You (as you may have already realized by now) missed the relevant line in the BMJ ref. It says:

Under normal circumstances ADH release from the posterior pituitary is mainly influenced by changes in plasma osmolality. In cranial DI (Diabetes insipidus), lack of such a response results in large urinary volumes (greater than 3 l/day or 40 ml/kg/day) of low osmolality (less than 300 mOsmol/kg); ACTH deficiency can mask DI clinically, symptoms only becoming apparent on starting steroid replacement.

The last sentence in that paragraph is remarkably close to Hypopituitarism's "ADH deficiency may be masked if there is ACTH deficiency, with symptoms only appearing when cortisol has been replaced."

We might want to steal this ref for ACTH stimulation test: it just provides very basic information, but it's comprehensive review article in a major scientific journal, so it's a gold-plated reference and would lend some extra credibility to the article. I'm not above a bit of window dressing. Perhaps we could use it at Adrenal insufficiency as well.

By the way, if you're not familiar with BugMeNot.com's password database, I can recommend it as a way to avoid registering with a lot of free-but-register websites.

Ratings

As a significant contributor to the article, JFW gets no say in whether it's listed as a Good Article. Under the current scheme, Good Article is supposed to be a better-than-average B class article, except with an extra bit of administrative hassle. The Good Article designation represents the view of a single editor. The only requirements for this editor are that he (or she) (a) be logged in to Wikipedia and (b) not be significantly involved in editing or nominating the article. Don't take it too seriously. It's just one person's opinion.

Panhypopituitarism

On its face, "incomplete panhypopituitarism" is an oxymoron, but it seems to exist. Try googling the quoted phrase "partial panhypopituitarism" and you'll see what I mean. As to why that definition is ref'd to plain hypopituitarism instead of to the definition for panhypopituitarism in the same source, I couldn't begin to guess. A careless error? Misplaced ref? If you want, you can paste the correct link onto the article's talk page and ask JFW to fix it.

With all that out of the way: The reason to keep working at Wikipedia is that it's fun. When it quits being fun, you should quit editing for a while. I know: people tend to talk about their noble plan to educate the readers, and solve all the world's problems, and right great wrongs, and so forth, but you've got to live with your real life. If Wikipedia is screwing up your real life, take a break. Don't make a big announcement -- just take a break.

Wikipedia needs good, knowledgeable people, but there's no deadline. Whether any given article gets fixed this week or next -- or even this year or next -- is not a big deal. Take care of yourself first, and the articles later. If that means a full break, go for it. If it means dumping one page off your list for a while -- dump it. I've done it; it can make a world of difference in my outlook. WhatamIdoing (talk) 03:37, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

Question

Would you find the administrative tools useful in the work you do on Wikipedia? And would you be interested in undergoing a week in the spotlight to obtain them? If so, please let me know. I will need to do a thorough McCain-campaign-style vetting, of course, but barring any ongoing ethics probes or Bridge-To-Nowhere support, I'd be happy to nominate you. MastCell ^Talk 18:37, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Oh, sure, there are things I can't do, but so far it's not been much a problem.

I am really flattered by your confidence and your kindness, but the RfA process is not really an efficient alternative to solving one small problem a month, and I don't really have enough time and energy to deal with the "week in the spotlight" aspect. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:14, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Ahh WhatamIdoing, there is a little craze over at RfA called being a "net positive" for the project. They don't assess whether you need the tools (most of them, unfortunately there would be some opposes) but rather how you would use them. Even if you only make one administrative edit per month, that's a net positive to this project. Run for adminship! —Cyclonenim (talk · contribs · email) 22:20, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

hasty

WhatamIdoing...

With respect to this

1. Please don't talk to me like I'm a child, because I will treat you like a child in turn, and I daresay I'm better at it.
2. Please don't be overly hasty in archiving: it's authoritative, presumptuous, and necessarily assumes bad faith on the part of the other participants. not to mention that it sticks out in an ugly way.
3. Please take the time to discuss things. I'm not unreasonable, but there is no requirement (that I know of) to the effect that I have to do exactly what you say the first time you say it.

Thanks. --Ludwigs2 06:17, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

The chats on how to apply WP:WEIGHT have recently totaled some 50 k. There are no proposals for improving the policy. While most of this was started by innocent and inexperienced editors (presumably looking for the WP:NPOVN), chatting is not the purpose of the WT:NPOV policy talk page, as everyone except you seems to have agreed recently. Furthermore, your latest note at WT:NPOV there was to ask whether WP:NDA should be changed -- just as if the opinions of the editors at WP:NDA were utterly unimportant to such a proposal -- which is entirely off-topic.

I think that more than 50 k of non-improvement-oriented chat qualifies as taking time to discuss things. I continue to suggest that if you want to chat about how you might or might not apply WP:WEIGHT to even more hypothetical situations, that you do so at a page that is intended for chatting, such as the Village Pump. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:35, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I'm not objecting to the suggestion, just the tone and manner in which you delivered it. take it as you will. --Ludwigs2 22:23, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Tigereyes92

Thanks, I appreciate the thought, but I was off on a bit of a break recently anyway. I'm just back (one hopes), and I thought "I wonder if Jessica has been up to anything since I've been away?" So, I look up Great Neck School District and find her footprints all over Tigereyes92's edit history. The same vaguely disruptive, clumsy prose style, the same obsessions with minor celebrities, alternative schools and New York state schools in particular. Cheers! --Bradeos Graphon Βραδέως Γράφων (talk) 04:00, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

I responded

... at Wikipedia talk:Policy/Procedure, and after we've put V0.7 to bed, I'll be happy to watchlist. - Dan Dank55 (send/receive) 03:55, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Really ?

Do you really want to start an RfC to add yet another discussion to the mix? My brain is seriously going to explode and I'll stop following any of it. MoS issues have taken over my editing time. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:31, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I'll reply on your talk page. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:38, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Emergency medical services in France

Thanks for the suggestions. I will take them under advisement. A couple of questions; can you explain to me why a wikipedia site would not be considered a reliable source when many universities now permit it as a cited source? Also, I was wondering about the challenge of attempting to work with systems where the operation, research, and publications are not in English? I used French Wiki, for example because, reading Frennch, I could see that the information was both good and relevant. Given that the type of vehicle or its name that I was describing doesn't even exist in English, and no English language references were available for it, I found myself in a quandary. The vehicle is completely relevant to the article and requires substantiation other than a mere photo, but that seemed to be the only way to do it in this case. To be clear, I'm NOT moaning...I have really taken to this, and enjoy it, and am trying to be clear on rules, because Wikipedia is a little different in terms of style, etc. from most purely academic approaches and styles. I'm trying to get the most out of your advice, and I do value your feedback! Emrgmgmtca (talk) 19:36, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

I'll reply in your talk page. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:52, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for clarifying, and for an absolutely terrific referencing tool that I will use in other places, as well as here!!! I will get the references on the article sorted, and put it back up for re-evaluation later today. Thanks so much for your help! Emrgmgmtca (talk) 11:05, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Okay, I think I'm done, and even I think it's a much better article than what I had original sent for re-evaluation! I've sent the article back up for re-evaluation, and even if it isn't you doing the re-eval, I would really value your opinion. Your guidance on this has been a tremendous help, and greatly appreciated. Please feel free to look over anything else that I put up and provide suggestions. While I am still fairly new at Wikipedia, I have some experience in writing, and am looking forward to this as a 'hobby' of sorts. Eventually I will pick up on the 'Wiki' way of doing things! Cheers!!! Emrgmgmtca (talk) 12:57, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Posturewriter

Hello. The RfC on in which you were a certifier of has been closed. You are encouraged to read the conclusion at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Posturewriter#Conclusion. Wizardman 20:18, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the barnstar. Nice to know my work's being appreciated :) Wizardman 16:08, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Hello WhatamIdoing! Our old friend PW has created a draft version of the Da Costa article here which I've been looking over. To be honest, in my opinion, it's actually a lot better and far more detailed than the one that is currently up and I can't find anything which is COI, unsourced (97 different sources quoted!!), or biased. As much as I dread to restart anything I believe it's important to encourage editors, no matter what's happened. So could I ask you to have a look at it and gently, gently, comment on it? Thanks! Hope you're well, Avnjay^Talk 10:51, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Avnjay, I realize that you're not competent in the subject matter, but an editor of your experience should have noticed that he doesn't use 97 different sources. For example, he lists the same thoroughly outdated (1951!) textbook eighteen separate times. There are in fact only 24 references, assuming you count the two "references" to Wikipedia articles (one to Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and another to Posturewriter's own work at Da Costa syndrome. You might also have noticed that he selectively quotes very short phrases from some of them. The most recent source is eleven years old (see WP:MEDRS#Use_up-to-date_evidence -- and it is about Chronic fatigue syndrome, not Da Costa's.

Would you like a detailed response? WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:15, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Ouch! I went back and added the 97 bit some time after I had written my post (but not saved it) which just goes to show you should never add in anything at the last minute! So, quickly sweeping my foolishness under the carpet, I've been through and collated all the sources now and changed a fair bit to better reflect the manual of style. A large part of his article is on the history of the syndrome hence all the old sources (an exception in WP:MEDRS#Use_up-to-date_evidence). There is one current source in the Merriam Webster Medical Dictionary and I have added two recent (2004) ones from the current article and the Dorland's dictionary. I will let Posturewriter know he needs to add some more. As far as short quotes go, they do seem to be referenced and do make for easier reading than lots of long quotes. I shall, however, suggest he lengthen them. Do you know of any which are quoted out of context? By all means, if you have the time and inclination, give me as much detail as you can muster, but I can fully understand if you are sick of this by now! I am really keen though to keep working with Posturewriter as I do believe a better article can be produced here. Plus I think Wikipedia should be a place of unending optimism! :) Have a good day!! Avnjay^Talk 15:26, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I tried marking things that need repaired, but it's basically a disaster. The history section is much, much, much too detailed. It inappropriately blends in symptoms, diagnosis, and treatment. This isn't really "history"; it's a blow-by-blow summary of selected papers whose conclusions he personally approves of. He has rejected actual works of history in developing this section (and they exist: search for "Da Costa" in this book). I see that he also "forgot" to mention that DCS appeared in cavalry (with their non-restrictive clothing and gear) just as much as infantry (who complained about their belts), and that the British Army did a massive redesign of their gear specifically to prevent DCS -- and that it did not work.

The style is horrible. Medicine-related articles do not obsessively name the year, publisher, and authors when discussing research work. That's what your citation is for. He doesn't even have complete names for some of these people. We don't blather on about "In 1987 prominent Harvard researcher Oglesby Paul presented a ten page history of Da Costa’s syndrome in the British Heart Journal..." This is an effort to tell the reader "You have to believe everything I say that this guy said. He's important. You should know his name. He published in a decent journal." Paul's paper was a routine review paper. Proper style skips this sort of stuff and gets to the actual point (which PW's summary seriously downplays because he's having trouble remembering that anxiety disorder is a functional disease of the nervous system, not a character flaw). PW isn't interested in fixing things like this, because they promote his POV. We can't even get him to quit bolding the years (to conform with WP:MOSBOLD) despite repeated efforts on that single, small point.

Perhaps more importantly, this draft seriously overemphasizes the body posture aspects (you remember that Posturewriter has self-published a thousand-page book on his personal theory that people with heart palpitations and fatigue would feel better if they exercised and stood up straight, right?) and it ignores or downplays all the DCS-related people that don't agree with him. You probably didn't notice that the current classification of this disease is nowhere to be found in this article? Contrary to what PW would have you believe, it's still on the books. It's a dysfunction of autonomic nervous system, but you can't fix nerves by lifting weights, so he's quoting textbooks and papers from the 1950s to shore up his view.

And he's chosen the 1950s with care, because mitral valve prolapse was finally figured out in the 1960s. MVP has a distinctive and easily identified heart "click". That click is clearly and recognizably described in a statistically significant subset of the early "DCS" patients, and it's one of the reasons that early researchers thought they had a truly physical cardiac problem in DCS patients. MVP runs in families -- note that I'm telling you have the current knowledge, not the half-a-century ago views -- is associated with deformities of the chest and spine, appears more in women than in men, is often diagnosed in young adults, is associated with a thin, lean body weight, makes the person susceptible to some particularly deadly infections, patients do better with less stress (less demand on the heart), have poor tolerance for exercise, are usually treated with "you'll be fine, just take it easy and call if you get sick" (only severe cases get surgery) -- does any of this sound familiar yet?

When you look at the old work, and you see that a paper reports that, say, a sixth of his patients have that distinctive click, then you really have to toss everything he's said about the "typical" patient, because he's talking about two different and unrelated diseases. It's literally like saying that you've studied the behavior of girls in school, but didn't realize until decades later that every sixth "girl" in your study was a boy. And in fact, that's what the modern sources have done. PW just didn't choose to tell you that.

The few modern papers frequently have nothing to do with DCS. One person -- a person that does not represent the scientific or medical consensus on this point (I know: you couldn't possibly have known) publishes his personal theory (in an editorial, not a peer-reviewed article) that DCS is kinda sorta an early description of chronic fatigue syndrome. PW uses that to justify his inclusion of selected CFS resources as support for his POV. (See, for example, the non-RS-compliant "disease of a thousand names" website that he cites three times).

I realize that these problems aren't obvious to a person with no background in the field, but the entire thing is so full of his POV that I would honestly recommend scrapping it and starting over. WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:27, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Sommers article

WhatamIdoing: thank you for fixing the RfC, that was very helpful. It would be helpful if you could comment on the talk page discussion too. Skoojal (talk) 21:19, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

Eucalyptus oil: alternative therapy or pharmaceutical?

Hi Whatamldoing, I noticed that you recategorized Eucalyptus oil as an alternative therapy as opposed to a 'medicine', and I'm not sure whether that is the case. While eucalyptus oil is not a prescription medicine, it has a long history of recognition as a decongestant and antibacterial by medical authorities, and in fact there is pharmaceutical grade of eucalyptus oil. If it's not a medicine what's it doing in the British Pharmacopoeia? I think the confusion may lay in the fact that essential oils are typically associated with alternative medicines, but in the case of eucalyptus oil I don't think this is the classic alternative therapy because it has conventional medicine recognition, allbeit more aften self-administered in lozengers etc, but so is aspirin. Cheers.John Moss (talk) 10:59, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

BP lists many things that are not within the scope of WP:MED. I will reply on the article's talk page. In the absence of clear information that this plant extract is actually considered a pharmaceutical drug, WPMED's banner (and probably WP Pharma's) should be removed. WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:36, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

The eucalyptus oil standard in the BP is in-fact cited in the peer-reviewed Journal of Pharmacy and Pharmocology [8]. It clearly implies acceptance as a pharmaceutical.John Moss (talk) 07:26, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

I am replying on the article's talk page. WhatamIdoing (talk) 22:37, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

RFC/Kainaw

I have a bit of a problem. I want a few people to look over Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Kainaw and tell me if I'm being too mean, too rude, too vague, too wordy, too anything. However, I do not want others to defend me. You appear to know the RFC process well. Is there a Request For Review without comments? I have no intention of continuing any discussion on the RFC as it is just going in circles, but I do want to know when I am actually in the wrong. -- kainaw™ 17:05, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

I don't think that exactly what you have in mind exists. You might consider Wikipedia:Editor review.

As for your conduct in this particular incident: You obviously failed to "win friends and influence people". There's a very large gap between that and being "wrong". WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:14, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for your thoughtful comment on that RFC, which I've endorsed. I hope I didn't hijack your view with my comment (that certainly wasn't my intention). Sjakkalle (Check!) 07:25, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Query

I'm now in the process of creating a whole new page. It was previously deleted due to accusations of a lack of notability(there were only 1 or 2 notes at the time). I recreated the page again recently (but with slightly different text) and someone put it down for a speedy deletion. I objected in the talk page and gave my reasons, plus I found the time to greatly expand the page and add numerous references so as to make it notable by wikipedia's standards. Trouble is that, apparently, my refutation of the speedy deletion comment on the discussions page may not be enough, as wikipedia states that the article might be deleted, anyway.

My question is:- after having added sufficient text/notes etc. to make the article notable, and given an explanation, am I allowed to remove the "speedy deletion" tag from the main page via editing, or is this only legally allowed by the person who put it there in the first place. It's just that, having fixed everything, I don't want the page "posioned" by an outdated claim at the top of the page.Loki0115 (talk) 15:20, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

Forget it, I've just read that I'm not allowed to remove the comment as I'm the creator of the page.15:29, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

I will reply on your talk page. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:08, 2 October 2008 (UTC)

help with deletion of a article

I created Emergency Medical Dispatcher it was a good well written article with a significant amount of links and was cited with 6-7 links. I have been away a while and come back to find some one under handed it and WP:PROD. I know that you have some experience and would like guidance on how to get the article re-instated, a simple google search shows it meets WP:V and WP:N. thanks for your help in advance Medicellis (talk) 01:16, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

I will reply on your talk page. WhatamIdoing (talk) 05:03, 6 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your help! I was able to get the deletion author to restore the article. If I may ask what you think I can do to improve the article to make it less likey to be included in a AfD....thanks! Medicellis (talk) 23:25, 8 October 2008 (UTC)