Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 December 25: Difference between revisions

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* Either rename the real-world category or rename the fictional category, at least make sure they are consistent with each other. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 20:58, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
* Either rename the real-world category or rename the fictional category, at least make sure they are consistent with each other. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 20:58, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' "arms traffickers" instead? {{category|Amrs traffickers}}, {{category|Fictional arms traffickers}}, [[arms trafficker]] and [[arms traffickers]] and [[arms trafficer]] and [[arms trafficers]] as redirects to [[arms trafficking]] -- [[Special:Contributions/65.92.247.66|65.92.247.66]] ([[User talk:65.92.247.66|talk]]) 01:33, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' "arms traffickers" instead? {{category|Amrs traffickers}}, {{category|Fictional arms traffickers}}, [[arms trafficker]] and [[arms traffickers]] and [[arms trafficer]] and [[arms trafficers]] as redirects to [[arms trafficking]] -- [[Special:Contributions/65.92.247.66|65.92.247.66]] ([[User talk:65.92.247.66|talk]]) 01:33, 26 December 2023 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' - We need a NPOV category name. There are both traffickers or dealers who are on the fringes of legality, but the category probably includes those selling on behalf of legitimate manufacturers with the proper export licences. [[User:Peterkingiron|Peterkingiron]] ([[User talk:Peterkingiron|talk]]) 18:14, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Revision as of 18:15, 26 December 2023

< December 24
December 26 >

December 25

Category:Santali-speaking people by occupation

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge for now. There's only one category in here Mason (talk) 20:51, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Bestselling Swedish-language authors

Nominator's rationale: Non-defining. Bestselling category is vague/not-defining. Mason (talk) 20:42, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:19th-century referees and umpires

Nominator's rationale: Only covers one century and has, in turn, only one subcategory. Merge subcat with its parent category and delete the "19th-century referees and umpires". Omnis Scientia (talk) 20:04, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Armenian Eastern Catholics

Nominator's rationale: merge, redundant category layer with only one subcategory. This is clean-up after this earlier discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:53, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Smasongarrison and Fayenatic london: courtesy ping to participants in previous discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:57, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. Mason (talk) 20:44, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Martial artists

Nominator's rationale: Has very few articles; does not help in navigation. Omnis Scientia (talk) 19:50, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:19th-century players of American football

Nominator's rationale: Covers only one century and doesn't help in navigation. Omnis Scientia (talk) 18:44, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:19th-century tennis players

Nominator's rationale: Delete categories; only covers one century; no other sport has a category by century. Omnis Scientia (talk) 17:16, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. no other sport has a category by century - I've just taken a look at Category:19th-century_sportspeople and I see "19th-century chess players", "19th-century martial artists‎" etc. Deltaspace42 (talk • contribs) 19:00, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    @Deltaspace42, I did notice that but a long while after I nominated this! I've cut it out. Omnis Scientia (talk) 19:53, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, the fact that there aren't 20th-century and 21st-century categories is not decisive. A 19th-century category is relevant for historical purposes, which would not apply to the 20th and 21st century. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:29, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Keep per marco Mason (talk) 20:45, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep -- We deleted a lot of 20th century categories some years ago, becasue they were being used for a current/past distinction, which we do not allow. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:02, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Tennis people

Nominator's rationale: Merge to parent categories. Does not apply to a lot of people. Omnis Scientia (talk) 15:47, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Women referees and umpires

Nominator's rationale: Delete/merge. Only one category layer. Omnis Scientia (talk) 15:39, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment one female category might be justified because (or if) the officials are generally male. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:04, 26 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Politicians born in Kocaeli

Nominator's rationale: "Born in" is not defining in this context. When it comes to politicians, the defining geographic intersection is not where they were born, it's where they did politics. Bearcat (talk) 14:29, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from New York City by neighborhood

more categories nominated
Nominator's rationale: Narrow category targets per WP:NARROWCAT WP:OC. No need to further categorize occupations by neighborhoods when they are already categorized by boroughs. Dual merge to parent categories. (edit: added to my rationale) Omnis Scientia (talk) 10:03, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Note: have expanded nominations to add similar categorizations from other NYC boroughs. Omnis Scientia (talk) 13:50, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Emigrants from the Principality of Montenegro

Nominator's rationale: Upmerge. No need to make the distinction between political regimes Mason (talk) 00:33, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 09:16, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Hazzans

Nominator's rationale The Hebrew plural of hazzan is hazzanim. Since the singular Hebrew hazzan is being used on Wikipedia (as opposed to the English "cantor"), then the plural should be used as well. Bohemian Baltimore (talk) 09:13, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 09:14, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Deaths in British India

Nominator's rationale: Like Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2023_November_17#Category:Deaths_in_the_German_Empire this intersection between time period, nation, and death is not helpful as there are more specific death categories in the parent category. Mason (talk) 15:43, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • At minimum Category:Deaths in British India should be containerized, but the nomination is ok too. The last category, if not kept, should be plainly deleted instead of merged because all articles are already in Category:Deaths from pneumonia in India. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:36, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I did go through and restore as many of the removed indian categories as I could find. JPL removed people from more specific cause of death categories a lot when he moved them to the much vaguer british india category. Mason (talk) 21:20, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 09:13, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Kuni no miyatsuko

Nominator's rationale: I already created two awkward split categories of Category:Kuni no miyatsuko position holders‎ and Category:Kuni_no_miyatsukoates which also might need renaming

Kuni no MIyatsuko is an ancient JApanese noble title. Lets talk about it in analogy to a count

Category:Kuni_no_miyatsuko is countly families and titles. Category:Kuni no miyatsuko position holders‎ is counts Category:Kuni_no_miyatsukoates is counties (places ruled by a count)

All three need some kind of renaming

This is all rather awkward and clumsy but we need to make the distinction. IT is also worth noting Japanese wikipedia does not make the distinction, so there titleholders, titles, families, and lands are all grouped together

At the moment all articles about titles are in reference to a single family with the title. While this may not always be the case in the indefinite future, I see a split in this direction as not being necessary right now, and likely never necessary since I am unaware of a dynastic change in such titles, only of families that had the title and are still significant after it was abolished. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 22:59, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

To be clear there is zero basis in any literature for Category:Kuni no miyatsukoates as a term. I just provisionally used it in analogy to Khanate or Shogunate
An alternative reading of the characters is "Kokuzo" but that one is more ambiguous and I believe a less common but still present reading. Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 23:12, 1 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Request: @Immanuelle Could you consolidate your nomination? It's hard to easily digest what and why you're advocating. Mason (talk) 00:31, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Smasongarrison I changed my mind about the whole thing, Now currently Category:Kuni no miyatsuko is a container category for the three other categories. But I still think all of them need to be renamed to fit MOS Immanuelle ❤️💚💙 (talk to the cutest Wikipedian) 09:13, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 17:05, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 09:09, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Fictional British characters by descent

Nominator's rationale: Only one immediate subcategory. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 17:12, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Merge per nom Mason (talk) 19:10, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 09:07, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Newspaper chain founders

Nominator's rationale: Non-defining intersection between size of newspaper founded and nationality.Mason (talk) 19:00, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The first two articles I am looking at do not concern founders of anything. They are businesspeople who grew existing newspapers to a chain. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:24, 18 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 09:04, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete unless my previous comment is properly addressed. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:43, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:People from Assam Province

Nominator's rationale: Overlapping category Mason (talk) 20:34, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 09:04, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Merge, there is no need to split people at subnational level to before and after Indian independence. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:49, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Ibero-American awards

Nominator's rationale: Unclear what the intended distinction is between "Latin American" and "Ibero-American" in this context. Bearcat (talk) 21:53, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose (nominally) Ibero-American awards encompass a wider scope including Spain and Portugal (unlike Latin-American ones, which leave those countries out).--Asqueladd (talk) 22:15, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 09:03, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Electronic dance music record labels

Nominator's rationale: Both categories encompass the same group of articles: record labels which release electronic music. The term is more commonly known as "Electronic music", and the need for a second category is superfluous. Jalen Folf (talk) 23:35, 17 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Qwerfjkltalk 09:03, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Fictional Jews

Merge Category:Fictional Jewish women to Category:Fictional Jews
Rationale: Do we really need this? We have no other categories which sort female fictional characters by their ethnicity or religion. AHI-3000 (talk) 06:05, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Berber Islamists

Nominator's rationale: Dual merge: Non-defining Intersection between ethnicity and religious sect/political orientation Mason (talk) 02:40, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Arms traders

Nominator's rationale: Based on opposition to renaming the subcategory Category:Fictional arms dealers to align with this category.
From WP:CFDS

–LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 01:47, 25 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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