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*'''Oppose'''. These mergers to multiple targets create a maintenance nightmare, and the sheer scale of tis nomination makes it impossible to believe that the nominator has done [[WP:BEFORE]] to ensure that these categories all fulfill [[WP:SMALLCAT]] which is for "Small with no potential for growth": ''categories that, by their very definition, will never have more than a few members, unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme''.<br />These cats are indeed part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme, and i our age of globalisation, they do have potential for growth. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 18:58, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. These mergers to multiple targets create a maintenance nightmare, and the sheer scale of tis nomination makes it impossible to believe that the nominator has done [[WP:BEFORE]] to ensure that these categories all fulfill [[WP:SMALLCAT]] which is for "Small with no potential for growth": ''categories that, by their very definition, will never have more than a few members, unless such categories are part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme''.<br />These cats are indeed part of a large overall accepted sub-categorization scheme, and i our age of globalisation, they do have potential for growth. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 18:58, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
:* I would not consider this a large scheme, e.g. [[:Category:Afghan emigrants]] has only 21 subcategories, out of potentially over 200 recipient countries. And [[:Category:Immigrants to Iraq]] only has four. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 21:38, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
:* I would not consider this a large scheme, e.g. [[:Category:Afghan emigrants]] has only 21 subcategories, out of potentially over 200 recipient countries. And [[:Category:Immigrants to Iraq]] only has four. [[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]] ([[User talk:Marcocapelle|talk]]) 21:38, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
:*:Ah @[[User:Marcocapelle|Marcocapelle]], that's disingenuous. Emigrants from Foo to Bar is a ''huge'' scheme. [[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 22:00, 13 June 2023 (UTC)


==== Category:Russian-speaking countries and territories ====
==== Category:Russian-speaking countries and territories ====

Revision as of 22:00, 13 June 2023

< June 12
June 14 >

June 13

NEW NOMINATIONS

Category:Ballygall

Nominator's rationale: Per WP:SMALLCAT. This was a strange hybrid category, a mix of people and places. I moved the people to a new subcat Category:People from Ballygall which leaves only 2 articles. Ballygall is a small district, so there is little room for growth. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 21:57, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Television series by Uncharted

Nominator's rationale: I'm unclear on what the correct disambiguation for this should be. The article says that it is a production label. Gonnym (talk) 19:43, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Manu Gavassi

Nominator's rationale: With only subcategories for articles on albums and songs which already interlink with each other, this is another unnecessary eponymous parent. WP:OCEPON. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 18:24, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:European civilizations

Nominator's rationale: Follow-up to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 April 25#Category:Post-classical civilizations. This category was overlooked (by me) in the last round of discussions on civilizations categories created by Maxaxax in late 2022. Rationale remains the same. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 16:11, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Turkish-speaking countries and territories

Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parent Category:Countries and territories by official language, recently renamed siblings about German, Greek, Portuguese, Azerbaijani, Hungarian, Somali, and Tamil. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:55, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment, Turkish is only an official language in a few municipalities in Kosovo. Should Kosovo be kept here? Marcocapelle (talk) 17:20, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Good point, I had forgotten about that. I think it's better to remove Kosovo but include only those specific municipalities, because Turkish is not co-official in Kosovo as a whole. This June 2008 OSCE/UNMIK report on the Implementation of the Law on the Use of Languages by Kosovo Municipalities states on page 4: Pursuant to the Law the Turkish language is now official in Prizren. In 2007 and 2008, Gjilan/Gnjilane, Mitrovicë/Mitrovica, Prishtinë/Priština, and Vushtrri/Vučitrn recognized Turkish as a language in official use. The same 5 municipalities/districts (Prizren is a district containing several municipalities such as Mamusha) are highlighted in Turks in Kosovo (although it is not clearly said that Turkish is co-official there in this article). So, swapping Kosovo for these 5 items seems like the right move to make. Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:19, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Expatriates A-G

Full list of around 310 categories
This is the full list of categories nominated at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2023 June 13#Expatriates A-G

Category:Russian-speaking countries and territories

Nominator's rationale: WP:C2D List of countries and territories where Russian is an official language. WP:C2C parent Category:Countries and territories by official language, recently renamed siblings about German, Greek, Portuguese, Azerbaijani, Hungarian, Somali, and Tamil. The category may require some purging; e.g. considering Russian is an official language in the entire Russian Federation, we need not list every single federal subject here (although for completeness' sake we might do so anyway). I'm also not sure if Russian was officially used in some historic states such as Ukrainian People's Republic; the infobox suggests this was not the case, despite "widespread" unofficial use.
Note that this category is about law, the legal status of the Russian language per jurisdiction. It is not about where the Russian language is spoken (or written) by anyone (geography) or by how many people (demographics). The Category:Geographical distribution of the Russian language and its main article Geographical distribution of Russian speakers already serve that purpose / those purposes. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:36, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Danish-speaking countries and territories

Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parent Category:Countries and territories by official language, recently renamed siblings about German, Greek, Portuguese, Azerbaijani, Hungarian, Somali, and Tamil. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:29, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Chinese-speaking countries and territories

Nominator's rationale: WP:C2D List of countries and territories where Chinese is an official language. WP:C2C parent Category:Countries and territories by official language, and recently renamed siblings about German, Greek, Portuguese, Azerbaijani, Hungarian, Somali, and Tamil. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:29, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Cherokee-speaking countries and territories

Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parent Category:Countries and territories by official language, and recently renamed siblings about German, Greek, Portuguese, Azerbaijani, Hungarian, Somali, and Tamil. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:27, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Bulgarian-speaking countries and territories

Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parent Category:Countries and territories by official language, and recently renamed siblings about German, Greek, Portuguese, Azerbaijani, Hungarian, Somali, and Tamil. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:26, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Bengali-speaking countries and territories

Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parent Category:Countries and territories by official language, and recently renamed siblings about German, Greek, Portuguese, Azerbaijani, Hungarian, Somali, and Tamil. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:25, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Balochi-speaking countries and territories

Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parent Category:Countries and territories by official language, and recently renamed siblings about German, Greek, Portuguese, Azerbaijani, Hungarian, Somali, and Tamil. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:24, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Avar-speaking countries and territories

Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C parent Category:Countries and territories by official language, and recently renamed siblings about German, Greek, Portuguese, Azerbaijani, Hungarian, Somali, and Tamil. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:23, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Arabic-speaking countries and territories

Nominator's rationale: WP:C2D List of countries and territories where Arabic is an official language. WP:C2C parent Category:Countries and territories by official language, recently renamed siblings about German, Greek, Portuguese, Azerbaijani, Hungarian, Somali, and Tamil. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 15:21, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Broadcasters from from Cork (city)

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was: procedural close: category has already been speedily deleted (non-admin closure) Marcocapelle (talk) 17:31, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Nominator's rationale: Only one preposition needed Certes (talk) 14:02, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, as it's empty. Oculi (talk) 14:08, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy delete per WP:C1 and WP:G7. I created this, and it's an obvious typo. No need for a discussion it could have been a speedy merge per WP:C2A/C2B.
    @Certes, please withdraw the CFD nom so that I can tag it for a G7 speedy. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:12, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Withdrawn. (If there's any information on how to withdraw a nomination properly or some sort of C2A tag to add, please point me at it. Twinkle only offers me C1, and it's not been empty seven days.) Certes (talk) 14:19, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks, @Certes. For future ref, see what {{db-empty}} says. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 14:22, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.

Category:13th-century rulers of Monaco

Nominator's rationale: WP:SMALLCAT 2 P 0 C. WP:OR/WP:ARBITRARYCAT: François Grimaldi and Rainier I of Monaco, Lord of Cagnes both briefly held Monaco in practice, but had no de jure title with "of Monaco" in it. Rainier is identified as the progenitor of the Grimaldi dynasty, but his son Charles I, Lord of Monaco is the first to be identified as a "Lord of Monaco", both on the official Monegasque govt website and in literature such as page 83 of Françoise de Bernardy, Princes of Monaco: the remarkable history of the Grimaldi family, ed. Barker, 1961 (the main source cited in all three bios). If you search for "first Lord of Monaco", you'll also find "Charles Grimaldi" more often (example). His bio also says he had no predecessor as "Lord of Monaco": None (Rainier I, controlled the lordship of Cagnes). The claim in Rainier's own bio that Rainier I of Monaco (1267–1314) was the first sovereign Grimaldi ruler of the area now known as Monaco. is full of original research, and so is calling him I of Monaco in the article title. I think it should just be Rainier, Lord of Cagnes, Rainier I, Lord of Cagnes, Rainier I Grimaldi, Lord of Cagnes or something, just like the govt website and RS do. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:18, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
PS: The consequence of deletion will likely be that Category:14th-century rulers of Monaco should be upmerged. I'm not sure if I should nominate that category for Upmerging as part of this CfD, or just await the outcome of this CfD first? Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:24, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The category reflects their control of the area, and not their official title. Dimadick (talk) 13:21, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    If that is the case, shouldn't we just consider them as warlords who controlled a certain area by force of arms, but without any political legitimacy (as evidenced by a title like Foo of Monaco)? Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 13:27, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
      • "Warlord" does not really apply here. They were Genoese leaders trying to establish their own regime, in the context of internal conflicts in the Republic of Genoa. Monaco was a Genoese colony since 1215, but Genoa was in a state of civil war by the 1270s and the House of Grimaldi was facing the threat of exile. Dimadick (talk) 15:22, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
        Thanks a lot for providing that historical context! Well, doesn't that neatly fit the definition given in warlord?
        • warlord: A warlord is a person who exercises military, economic, and political control
          • Dimadick: They were Genoese leaders trying to establish their own regime
        • warlord: control over a region
          • Dimadick: The category reflects their control of the area
        • warlord: a region in a country without a strong national government
          • Dimadick: Monaco was a Genoese colony since 1215, but Genoa was in a state of civil war by the 1270s
        • warlord: largely because of coercive control over the armed forces.
          • Dimadick: They were Genoese leaders trying to establish their own regime, and The category reflects their control of the area.
        To me this confirms François and Rainier Grimaldi were warlords. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:16, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, we categorize rulers by country, duchy, county or lordship, but not by occupied area. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:27, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Agreed. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 18:33, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Monarchs of the Hebrew Bible

  • Re-parent ? (let's discuss this in the comments)
Nominator's rationale: WP:C2C grandchild Category:Pharaohs in the Bible (and its main article Pharaohs in the Bible), item Cyrus the Great in the Bible, siblings Category:Women in the Hebrew Bible and Category:Giants in the Hebrew Bible. In the recent CfM "Biblical rulers by century", some people already suggested "in" was better than "of". Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 10:26, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Possible re-parenting Category:Monarchs of the Hebrew Bible currently has the following parents: Category:Hebrew Bible people (seems perfectly fine), Category:Monarchs in Africa (questionable, will probably only apply to grandchild Category:Pharaohs in the Bible, and even then it is questionable); Category:Middle Eastern monarchs (questionable and potentially anachronistic), and Category:Jewish monarchs (does not apply to non-Israelite monarchs). Some monarchs mentioned in the Hebrew Bible definitely existed as historical people, but other monarchs have been found by scholars to be literary characters: probably fictional, serving a narrative function in a moralistic story, but not based on historical people. Therefore, I hesitate to apply "in Africa" and "[in the] Middle East" as parents, because some of these monarchs seem to only exist in the pages of the Hebrew Bible, but not in history, nor in geography. Category:Hebrew Bible people is a great-grandchild of Category:People by religious text, alongside Category:Book of Mormon people, Category:People of the Quran, Category:Characters in the Mahabharata, Category:Characters in the Ramayana etc. The existence of a lot of, say, Book of Mormon rulers such as Laman and Lemuel, is also disputed, and we should not put them in categories/trees such as Category:Monarchs in North America. But they and monarchs in the Hebrew Bible could theoretically be put in a child category of Category:People by religious text named Category:Monarchs by religious text. Would that be a good idea? Cheers, Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 11:21, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Gun politics by country

Nominator's rationale: "Gun politics" is a US-centric term, and does not describe any actual political movement or ideology in most other countries. Almost all of these categories were set up as parents of mass-shooting categories, which is inappropriate as mass shootings are not regarded as a political issue over gun ownership outside of the United States, as far as I'm aware. These subcats should all be purged. Other than that, Group B contain only a handful of categories that are about gun laws (not politics), and should be merged to the respective Law of Foo categories. Group C contain some articles that aren't specifically about gun laws. They should be pruned and the remaining articles recategorised under Firearms in Foo or something similar. Note that I have not touched the Australia category, in addition to (obviously) the United States. --Paul_012 (talk) 09:48, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Please allow some time while I build the CfD nom and tag the subcats. Done. --Paul_012 (talk) 10:06, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per well-researched rationale of nom. Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:28, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    PS: as mass shootings are not regarded as a political issue over gun ownership outside of the United States, as far as I'm aware. This may not be entirely true; it definitely was the reason for tight gun control in Australia after the 1996 Port Arthur massacre (Australia). It may also apply to Gun control in Brazil, though that article needs to be updated as noted already. For other countries you are probably right, e.g. in Switzerland, gun ownership has a strong correlation with suicide, though not with homicide, let alone mass shootings. People advocating for less gun ownership usually do so to reduce suicide rates, not because they are particularly concerned over mass shootings (although I can vividly remember the 2001 Zug massacre causing a lot of political debate over gun ownership). Nederlandse Leeuw (talk) 17:45, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, the articles are about law, not about politics. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:42, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:20th century in philosophy

Nominator's rationale: Duplicate category, no other centuries in philosophy exist in this format. (t · c) buidhe 04:04, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support, sounds grammatically erroneous as well. Okiyo9228 (talk) 05:57, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • It is the other century categories that should be renamed, consistent with other topics by century trees. Marcocapelle (talk) 04:17, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Wikipedians who feel disappointed with WMF

Nominator's rationale: WMF is short for "Wikimedia Foundation", "with Wikimedia Foundation" is ungrammatical. I considered listing this for C2A, but I doubted if this consituted an obvious error. CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 03:08, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
True. Added as an alternative. CLYDE TALK TO ME/STUFF DONE (please mention me on reply) 15:56, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]


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