Talk:Lilia Tarawa

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Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by SL93 (talk) 22:41, 21 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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Converted from a redirect by Nexus000 (talk). Nominated by Feminist (talk) at 16:25, 6 April 2021 (UTC).[reply]

General: Article is new enough and long enough

Policy compliance:

  • Adequate sourcing: No - Referencing is generally good and from independent and reliable sources. While checking the hook citation, I noticed the rest of the paragraph (In 2009, Tarawa and her family...) was not supported by the citation given. - checkY fixed.
  • Neutral: Yes
  • Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing: No - Checked with Earwig's Copyvio Detector, which returned a possible violation in relation to several lengthy quotes in the article. Per WP:QUOTE, overuse of quotes, especially long ones, is discouraged and may be better paraphrased in prose. - checkY fixed.
  • Other problems: No - A merge request is currently under discussion; the DYK cannot proceed until this is closed. - checkY merge request closed.

Hook eligibility:

  • Cited: Yes
  • Interesting: No - The hook doesn't feel "hooky" enough to me. Gloriavale isn't unique in telling its members they will go to hell if they leave.
QPQ: Done.

Overall: Article length and age are fine, and reliable sources are used. However, there is a possible copyvio issue, and the hook doen't feel "hooky". This is my first solo QPQ, so second opinions and feedback are welcome. Lcmortensen (mailbox) 10:44, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I have requested for the merge request to be closed because it has found a clear consensus. Nexus000 (talk) 23:32, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Lcmortensen: Thanks for the review. I've paraphrased some quotes to address the plagiarism concern. You are right, the audio in the source cited does not support the rest of the paragraph. @Nexus000: where did you get that information? Is it from her book? If so, cite that.
  • ALT1: ... that "everything got stricter" in the Gloriavale Christian Community after Lilia Tarawa left with her family?
  • I'm also open to other hook suggestions. feminist (talk) 04:27, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The referencing issue is minor and easily fixed. My local library has a copy, but its onb loan, so I can't fix it myself. The original hook is much more "hooky" compared with the alternate hook, and I may have been a little bit harsh in my critique, so with the original hook. Lcmortensen (mailbox) 08:31, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • Thanks for the review. I realize this is a minor issue, but shouldn't this be a green tick? The RNZ source cited is online and non-paywalled, and states Lilia Tarawa fled Gloriavale after years of believing that to do so would mean she would go to hell. It fully supports the original hook. feminist (talk) 16:53, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge of Gloriavale Christian Community into Lilia Tarawa[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The result of this discussion was to unanimously oppose the merge

I propose to merge Gloriavale Christian Community into Lilia Tarawa. Secondary news coverage of this group only happened after Tarawa's TED talk: most of the material in the "controversies" section is related to her talk. The demographic information is already beginning to be incorporated into the Haupiri article. Joofjoof (talk) 07:04, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment I disagree with the claim most of the material in controversies is related to her talk, only one paragraph is about her talk. 2 paragraphs in cult allegations, the section on their COVID-19 response, workplace safety, and a lawsuit are all well-covered events by themselves, not based on the talk.
  • There have always been secondary sources on Gloriavale Christian Community, plenty before the talk. This article was created on 1 March 2007, the article was read 660,997 times since 2015, 188,020 times between 2015 and 16 November 2017 (the day before the talk), a TVNZ 2 3 part documentary in 2016, and a book published in 2009 about the community. I'm not sure where you are from, but as a New Zealander, anecdotally Gloriavale has always been a cultural icon and a source of public interest. The community is isolated but opens itself to the public annually for concert, so it has been a mystery and a source of speculation for New Zealanders. Nexus000 (talk) 07:31, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose I had a think about the pros and cons of both, but I oppose. Tarawa would be notable for WP:GNG on her own even if Gloriavale didn't have a page and the information on her is more detailed and comprehensive than what a section on another article would have. Nexus000 (talk) 07:45, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tarawa is the main reason this group has foreign media coverage. Just compare to the Gloriavale article of 2015 [1]. Joofjoof (talk) 10:42, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'd encourage you to look at this. This search displays the online articles available related to Gloriavale from 1969 (the community's foundation) to 11 December 2015 (when that edition of Gloriavale's Wikipedia article you linked was edited). The Wikipedia article you linked may not have had many sources, but plenty of sources on Gloriavale did exist before the TEDx Talk. I believe Lilia Tarawa and Gloriavale Christian Community both pass WP:GNG on their own and are seperate to each other, so we don't need to merge them. Nexus000 (talk) 10:54, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose, the community is separate from one of its former members, and is the subject of much media coverage since at least the 1990s. The statistical data for Gloriavale from the most recent census (2018) is recorded in the Gloriavale article, and the more detailed statistics for the wider area of Lake Brunner are covered at Moana, New Zealand.-gadfium 08:36, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • See, you have found an error right there: the Gloriavale article claims to be in Haupiri instead of Moana. Couldn't we just make the Gloriavale data a section on their town's article? Joofjoof (talk) 10:42, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • To clarify, Gloriavale and Moana are settlements within the Lake Brunner statistical area. The statistics in the Gloriavale article are only for the Gloriavale settlement, while the statistics at Moana are for the entire Lake Breunner statisical area.Lcmortensen (mailbox) 08:10, 10 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Is this merge proposal a joke? The claim that "secondary news coverage of this group only happened after Tarawa's TED talk" is more bizarre than the Cooperites themselves. Nurg (talk) 09:12, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • WP:Recentism is not a joke, Nurg. The article has only 2 sources dating from before 2016. The article in 2015 [2] looked like many other school/building articles that did not survive AfD. Joofjoof (talk) 10:42, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment While the article from 2015 you linked only had 2 sources, plenty of sources on the community did exist and it would have passed WP:GNG. Here is the related Google search before 11 December 2015, when that article was edited. Nexus000 (talk) 10:59, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Recentism! The proposal is to merge an article about an organisation that has existed for over 50 years and had hundreds of members into an article about one person who rose to minor notability 4 years ago. That's recentism, if anything is. I know it's not a joke - it's a good faith proposal. But, sorry to be so blunt, I find it astonishing. I'll give another example of recentism - we have an article about Lilia Tarawa but not one about Neville Cooper, who is far more notable!! Nurg (talk) 23:24, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Both topics meet GNG. I suggest you withdraw this proposal; this just won’t happen. Schwede66 18:11, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Arsey boo anyway. Gloriavale justifies a standalone article even if Tarawa article didn't exist. .Moriori (talk) 21:19, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment We have found a clear consensus. I'd encourage someone to close this merge request as soon as possible because this article is being proposed for DYK and cannot proceed until the discussion is closed. Nexus000 (talk) 11:33, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Acknowledgement[edit]

Tarawa has acknowledged this page:

https://www.facebook.com/liliatarawa/posts/406595797353913

https://www.instagram.com/p/CN5rgFypNSz/

Nexus000 (talk) 12:59, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I haven't opened either (and I probably won't), but this strikes me as kind of inappropriate. Uporządnicki (talk) 14:08, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Happy to delete if inappropriate. Just thought it was interesting. Nexus000 (talk) 14:11, 25 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]
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