Talk:2017 British & Irish Lions tour to New Zealand

Flags

Can we please not violate the Manual of Style? WP:MOSFLAG makes it clear that having flags attached to everything is inappropriate. Having national flags listed next to clubs for example. -- Shudde ^talk 18:35, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

IT is following the precidence of previous tour pages and other similar pages (such as 2011-12 UEFA Europa League) where flags are used for individual clubs to inform people which country they are from. After all, not all Welsh players play for Welsh clubs so we should keep the flags to inform others who ma not be aware. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 06:43, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

No it's not (see 2005 British and Irish Lions tour to New Zealand and 2009 British and Irish Lions tour to South Africa and article histories therein). Adding flags to domestic teams is a relatively recent thing that never used to happen (looks like it's been imported from soccer articles where it is out of control). But we have editors who love adding cruft and flags to articles, and now it's gotten out of control in rugby-related articles as well. Those domestic teams do not represent nations or even their respective Unions. Adding flags is simply decorative fluff that distracts attention from the focus of the table (the players names). It's a violation of the MOS and just because it's been done before doesn't mean it should continue. -- Shudde ^talk 07:09, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

Positions

Positions will be according to what the head coach has designated. Farrell is seen as a fly half, Watson as a winger and Williams as a full back. Regardless of where they have been chosen at national level, this has no bearing on where the head coach will place them. Therefore, please leave the positions as they are according to the official press release from the Lions TGB13 (talk) 21:36, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

@TGB13: I was going to add a note to the squad section (to make this clear), but the reference (a BBC article) doesn't actually include player positions. Do you have the "official" squad listing from the Lions management with positions included? -- Shudde ^talk 06:41, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

@Shudde: Ah sorry! Here's the official squad list: http://www.lionsrugby.com/2017tour/squad/index.php#.WPvSLlLMw6U It has some players with two positions, but they are in a specific order, i.e. Watson is down as a winger first and a full back second, Williams is a full back first and a winger second. TGB13 (talk) 22:00, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

@TGB13: I added the reference. The official site uses doesn't distinguish between flanker and No 8, and calls fly-half outside-half (which is fine, we can use their nomenclature). I will try and update per the official reference. -- Shudde ^talk 10:17, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

I have updated it per the website. Please check to make sure I made no mistakes. -- Shudde ^talk 10:44, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Looks great! Much better adding both positions, makes it very clear now TGB13 (talk) 21:32, 23 April 2017 (UTC)

Infobox image

There seems to be an ongoing dispute as to which image include in the infobox. To me it is a no brainer to use the actual tour logo rather than a non-free CMYK lions logo that is nominated for deletion. Any comments? CalzGuy (talk) 10:39, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Agreed, especially since the use of the generic logo on this page doesn't constitute Fair Use. The quality of the 2017 logo isn't great, but at the minute, it's the best option we have. – PeeJay 12:26, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Agreed, use the current tour logo as it makes sense and probably has the best Fair Use justification if used in this article. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 20:38, 11 May 2017 (UTC)

Infobox

Just checking, are we treating the stats in the infobox as only referring to the Lions, or is it for the opposition too? Because Beauden Barrett scored more points in the test series than Farrell. – PeeJay 12:59, 8 July 2017 (UTC)

@PeeJay2K3: - just the Lions. I have fixed it. Stormy clouds (talk) 22:08, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

But why? – PeeJay 22:12, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

The article is effectively about their "season". That is why Warren Gatland and Sam Warburton are mentioned in the infobox, but Steve Hansen and Kieran Read aren't. Stormy clouds (talk) 22:29, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

Maybe we need a new infobox similar to {{Infobox cricket tour}} that takes into account both teams. – PeeJay 22:59, 9 July 2017 (UTC)

First professional era test draw?

The Lions drew 25-25 with Argentina in 2005 but I'm not sure of the status of the game. The article on the 2005 tour states it was given retrospective test status by the IRB in 2008, finding it hard to find any evidence for that and the Lions own website doesn't shed any light either. At the time it was seen as a warm-up game. Does anyone have any thoughts as to whether that was the Lions first pro era test draw or not? --Bcp67 (talk) 13:13, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

According to ESPN Scrum stats, which is very reliable, the Lions issued caps for the games however Argentina did, so I'm not too sure if that would count as a full blow test if both team's didn't aware caps. Rugby.change (talk) 13:22, 10 July 2017 (UTC)

Information about previous drawn series in and out of the "professional era" is both unverified and confusing, and is barely relevant to the present article. The info is also at variance with a results source cited in the main Lions article. The detailed series results appear in the body of the present article, with citations--making it unnecessary to have additional citations in the lede. I have therefore removed the duplicated and uncited content, and moved the simplified results paragraph to a more appropriate earlier position. Bjenks (talk) 23:19, 17 August 2017 (UTC)