Talk:2019–20 United States network television schedule

Parks and Recreation Special

Hello again, everyone! This article indicates that a half-hour Parks and Recreation at-home fundraiser special will air next Thursday on NBC. Should that be mentioned here somehow? Thanks. --Jgstokes (talk) 05:12, 24 April 2020 (UTC)

Too Many “TBA”

There’s a lot of “TBA” in all of the days on the schedule does any one think that these should be removed until the respective networks announce more summer programming? Thanks. --Brianis19 (talk) 02:12, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

I think that the TBA's should be removed. I don't think we have ever had them in previous articles and we don't need them in this article. *75thClarkbarHG* (talk) 07:54, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

Fall 2020

I was just wondering whether it would be wise to move Big Brother and Love Island to Fall 2020. Even though both shows premiered in August, most of their episodes are going to air in September and beyond. Now i know that the Sept-August only boundary stated in the lead of the schedule is fluid and usually the new tv season begins in the third week of September (around the 20th), but this year is a very unique situation. BB started of two months late and its series page states that the season is scheduled to conclude on October 28, 2020. Now I haven't found any source for this, but even if the season is shortened a bit to a minimum of 30 episodes, it will still air well into the first week of October, which is Fall. Deadline released an article about an hour ago which states that NCIS and NCIS:LA are eyeing a tentative production start date of first week Sept and the rest of the shows between Mid-sept to first week Oct. Now considering the increase in production time due to social distancing and time for post-production, the earliest the majority of shows will return with fresh episodes is the first week of Nov, which leaves a major gap in the early fall schedule.[1] Splitting BB between Late Summer and Fall would be messy and confusing. On the other hand, LI could remain a part of 2019-20 but because BB and LI are twinned together on the schedule, moving one and not the other would leave an unnecessary void in the schedule.

Sorry to ping you, @TheTVExpert:, @TheRedDomitor:, @Lonniemitchell22:, @Heartfox: and @MrE:, but you guys seem to edit both these schedules most frequently.

So....Thoughts? Sunshine1191 (talk) 12:30, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

I think that they should be included in the 2020-21 schedule if they actually end in late October, but they should also remain in this one as they premiered in August (programming in the gap between end of August and late-September that premiered in August are included in the first schedule). This year is an unique case of exceptions, but I think we should await until actual sources are available (The Futon Critic lists until 9/20 for now [2]) because, for example, The CW always premiere their shows in mid-October and shows that aired before that date aren't usually included in the new schedule. — MrE (talk) 15:36, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

This is quite a tricky situation. While usually programming that airs in August and early September isn't included in Fall, this year is an unique situation indeed. The case of TMAS and Coroner is different as there two seasons of the series' have been split between 2019-20 and 2020-21. Splitting one season of BB between two TV seasons may lead to confusion. The way I see it, while what you are suggesting does indeed hold some merit, it will also give rise to a new problem. BB and LI both occupy only one hour each between 8 and 11 on the schedule, so if we move them to Fall right now then what do we fill the slots for the remaining two hours with. I think we should wait for a week-ten days and see if CBS announces replacement programming for Fall like NBC did with ANW and Transplant or if Futon Critic updates with encores, and then decide on what has to be done. TheRedDomitor (talk) 16:08, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

@TheRedDomitor: and @MrE: Guys... This is exactly why I had wanted to discuss the LI and BB situation. Now the new fall CBS schedule looks like a big heap of mess!! Love island has been moved from Monday and Saturday but not the rest of the days, BB only Thursday. I don't think I need to explain why that is problematic. Just one look and you are confused as to what has aired when and where between the two schedules. Like I had stated earlier...we'll have to either move the entire thing together or not at all. Because this splitting thing is clearly disastrous!! Waiting to hear back. Sunshine1191 (talk) 02:02, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Yep. I tried to update as much as I could today on the new schedule, but I did not include the shows on Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday because I was awaiting until new premiere dates for those days were available. I think if both shows air at least three weeks in Sep-Oct in any timeslot should be included in the Early fall schedule of the 2020–21. As much as a mess it may look like, it seems reasonable for me to include both shows in the new schedule since some shows will premiere in November. Maybe in the meantime a note could be included in the days in which the shows are included in the other schedule. — MrE (talk) 02:15, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Edit: Big Brother should be included in the 2019–20 since it premiered in Aug. I'll move Love Island to the new schedule. BB should be broken into both schedules due to its particularity this year. — MrE (talk) 02:20, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

@MrE I agree that Big Brother should be on both schedules. I don't think it makes sense to include the current season of Love Island on the 2020-21 schedule since Fall Begins on September 22nd and Love Island is scheduled to end a week later on September 29th.*75thClarkbarHG* (talk) 02:58, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

I think that it should be moved to the 2020–21 since new shows that will premiere in early September (like Transplant, 48 Hours: Suspicion and American Ninja Warrior) are also included. Either we keep all of them in the new schedule or we move all to the previous one. — MrE (talk) 03:06, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Transplant and ANW are different case scenarios as NBC itself has announced that they are part of the Fall schedule.TheRedDomitor (talk) 03:13, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

OK then, if everyone agrees I'll move the scheduling back to the first one. Do I take 48 Hours: Suspicion with Love Island in the move? Sorry, I'm just laughing very hard at the mess this has become. — MrE (talk) 03:18, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

48 Hours: Suspicion can remain in 2020 I guess...like I said one BIG jig-saw puzzle.🤣TheRedDomitor (talk) 03:24, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

@Sunshine1191: and @MrE: Hey Guys...Sorry for the delay in replying. I agree with u Sunshine that the new CBS fall schedule is indeed plumbing new depths on banality. But it is important to note that this year's fall schedule is a very unique one and unique is almost always paired with two scoops of crazy. I also get why MrE made the changes they did. So...lets just try to find a middle-way that both articulates the nuances of the improvised CBC fall schedule while also maintaining a sense of order and neatness in the tables. Now...i'm just throwing this out there but what difference will moving LI to 2020-21 make. The series is scheduled to conclude on 29 September which is well within the traditional parameters of the 2019-20 schedule. Moving it to 2020-21 doesn't achieve anything in terms of improving the schedule. Monday already has replacement programming scheduled at 9 (One Day at a Time) and Crimetime saturday is anyways a bunch of encores that run throughout the year. Instead of over complicating the matter by shifting, it makes more sense, at least to me, to let it be where it is. The same applies to BB. I understand MrE's point that the series is airing through Oct and thus should be included in the Fall schedule too. But at the same time it is also important to look at the logistics of it all. CBS in their new fall schedule announcement haven't designated any replacement programming for 9 pm and 10 pm through October on Sunday's which indicates that they intend to stick to the previously announced fall schedule and air NCIS: LA and NCIS: NO encores throughout. The same applies for Wednesday and Thursday at Nine. Amazing race has a October premiere date as a replacement for BB, which is when Fall actually starts. When the network itself intends to let things run the way they are, I don't think that we as editors should head in another direction. Also, it is more convenient to add one note at the start of the 2020-21 schedule table which states that due to COVID this years fall schedule has been compiled mainly through fitting in pieces like in a jig-saw puzzle and not all programming may align in terms of their air-dates (which i think should anyway be done), than adding separate notes for BB, Love Island and God only knows how many more NBC and ABC shows for both schedules. Thoughts? TheRedDomitor (talk) 03:06, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

Yes, I thought of that. Either we move all to one or the other schedule, that's fine by me. I did the moves since some shows that premiere early were included before in the schedule, and since the new schedule should include programming since September. But yes, that weird programming should be covered under the previous one as the new season will begin in different dates for each network. — MrE (talk) 03:11, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

So can we agree to let BB and LI be where they are and add a note at the starting of the 2020-21 schedule table that this year's schedule isn't perfect and not all programming may align in terms of airdates. We can't do anything abt Transplant and ANW as NBC itself has announced them as Fall programming.TheRedDomitor (talk) 03:21, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

References

Regular/Significant programming

@MrE:, @Lonniemitchell22: and @Sunshine1191:; We seriously need to decide one and for all what programming classifies as regular and what doesn't!! The confusion over this has been going on for over two weeks and it needs to end. The way I see it: Each schedule spans 12 months and 4 seasons (Fall, Winter, Spring and Summer). ie: 3 months for each season. Now, each season has three sub-seasons: Early, Mid and Late, which means one month for each sub-season. So by simple logic, for a series to be classified as regular programming shouldn't it air for at least one sub-season (one month; avg four weeks) @ a particular slot. I get it that some programming like the Holiday specials don't span as long. So, I was thinking that a criteria can be set that, for a series with fresh episodes it should air for a minimum three weeks in a row on a particular slot for it to be classified as regular programming/noteworthy on the schedule and for encores four weeks in a row. What Say? TheRedDomitor (talk) 01:43, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for opening the debate, that's exactly what I always thought. Three weeks should be the minimum to be included in the schedule, with burn-offs and shows that have been cancelled or removed from the schedule before three weeks being also included as they were planned to become regular programming. I have a slight recall of this issue being addressed before in some older schedule a few years ago until the seasons were called as they are now (which was a big improvement), and that's why I brought it back several times recently. As for the "holiday specials", I don't think they should be included unless there are actually regular shows new to the schedule. If I'm not mistaken the seasons start on the third week of the month (3rd week of Sep for Fall; 3rd week of Dec for Winter; 3rd week of Mar for Spring; and 3rd week of Jun for Summer) right? If there are other opinions I'd like to hear them. — MrE (talk) 01:58, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Yeah...that's generally the parameter, but like most things in the schedule its flexible a week here and there. I just used the 3 month analogy to paint a general picture abt how programming is distributed across a year and to show that a minimum 4 week limit is required for a series to be counted as significant on the schedule. We'll obviously need to work on this a bit more and discuss the Holiday Specials situation, but for now (Summer and Fall) I think we can safely set the criteria; 3 weeks of scheduling in a row for fresh episodes and 4 weeks for encores. (Encores can be reduced to 3 weeks later on if neccessary but currently with an erratic Fall schedule...it's safer to start off with four). I guess if we don't receive any differing opinions, we can implement this after 36 hours. TheRedDomitor (talk) 02:14, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm OK with that. Unless there are no other opinions in the future, we should include this guideline starting with this schedule. If older schedules need assessment (at least since 2004–05^{I think} where The Futon Critic has access), that could be done too. — MrE (talk) 02:31, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

I think adding this requirement is a great idea (and long overdue). - Brojam (talk) 03:49, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

Sounds Great. Should definitely be implemented ASAP. Sunshine1191 (talk) 05:22, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

I am also on board with this proposal. Thank you. --Jgstokes (talk) 05:29, 16 August 2020 (UTC)

P.S.: I think that Taskmaster should be included even if it aired one episode, as it was originally planned to air the full season before being removed from the schedule. Planned programming, the same as burn-offs should be included as they are intended to become part of the schedule before the bad outcomes. — MrE (talk) 15:29, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

I disagree. Originally planned programming is not relevant and should not be included. I don't think it should matter whether it was actually supposed to air or not. Burn-offs actually air on television, unlike originally planned programming which didn't.*75thClarkbarHG* (talk) 20:35, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

Replying to @MrE: I have to agree with *75thClarkbarHG* on this matter. Every network presumably makes a plethora of plans every season. Some of these materialise while others do not. In this case, airing Taskmaster was one such plan of CW's that did not quite pan out. Burn-off's are different as in those cases the networks atleast still air the eps on tv, even if they are irregularly scheduled. But here, Taskmaster aired for only one episode before being pulled from the schedule and moved to CW Seed which makes it more like a tv special. The cancellation of the series is definitely a notable event of this season and so it has been described in Renewals and Cancellations. But the fact is; the new scheduling guideline is still in its vulnerable early stages, which makes it important to stick to its principles "to the t". Even a single exception at this stage will set an unnecessary precedent and then there will always be one reason or the other to bend the rule, eventually resulting in the entire structure crumbling faster than a house of cards. TheRedDomitor (talk) 16:27, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Yep, you're right. I understood it now. Thanks for clarifying. 🤙 — MrE (talk) 17:09, 20 August 2020 (UTC)

Top 30 shows of the season

@TheRedDomitor, @ *75thClarkbarHG*, @MrE and @Jgstokes. As the season is coming to an end, it felt odd to me that Tim Brooks hadn't updated the Top 30 shows of the season. I wrote to them and this is what I got back:

I'm afraid we are going to have to discontinue updates to the annual top 30 due to the difficulty of getting the raw information from our contacts at the networks.

Nielsen itself does not provide this data to private individuals, and compiling the list has become harder over the years.

Sorry, and best wishes, Tim Brooks

I obviously don't have any reason to make this up, but just in case any editor feels the need to verify this information, they can send an email at tim@timbrooks.net.

That out of the way it brings me to the question of what do we do about the Top 30 shows from this season onwards. My thoughts were: i) We can use alternative sources like TVSeriesFinale which also compiles the list of the top shows using average of the final same day ratings for each show as provided by Nielsen. Or ii) We can use the top 30 based on the Live+7 final ratings average list, compiled by The Hollywood Reporter in June. (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/tv-ratings-7-day-season-averages-2019-20-broadcast-series-1297228). If anyone has any other sources mind please suggest. Cheers!! Sunshine1191 (talk) 02:14, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

I think that since there no are other sources for full ratings, the most accurate ratings information would be the 18–49 L+7 ratings published by HR. It is what networks look up to the most since it's all about advertising and those are the most common form of number releases these days. — MrE (talk) 02:50, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

I agree. Omitting the Top 30 shows isn't an option as they are necessary to maintain a record of how shows in general faired this season. If Tim Brooks has ceased their operations under broadcast television ratings, then HR is definitely the next best option. The only difference is that till last year it was the Final same-day ratings average that were used to compile the list, which from this year onwards will be replaced by L+7 ratings average; shouldn't make much of a difference. TheRedDomitor (talk) 04:11, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, i'm OK with using Hollywood Reporter. We should wait for a few more days though, for others to reply. Sunshine1191 (talk) 07:05, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

MrE (talk · contribs) and Sunshine1191 (talk · contribs): It has been over 36 hours and no other editor has replied to the discussion. Having not received any objections, I have added the Top 30 to the schedule from HR and like the previous years removed the gray background from the schedule for summer repeats, thus indicating the near end of this season. Also like the previous years, once the 2020-21 season officially begins on 21 Sept, the schedule grid can be changed from white to grey signifying the complete end of this season. TheRedDomitor (talk) 11:11, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

I understand wanting to wait till September 21 to change the grid color to grey, but the fact is that it is long overdue. I have gone through the editing history of the previous schedules and each year the grid color is changed in early August as the schedule isn't technically supposed to cover the next September as stated in the lede. We can wait till end of September to separate the schedule of each day but the grid color needs to be changed now. Sunshine1191 (talk) 15:45, 9 September 2020 (UTC)

Mom (CBS)

Under renewals, it states that Mom (TV series) was renewed for an eighth and final season. But at the time, they had just renewed the series, unaware it would be the final season. So would it be wrong to remove the "final" part, as this wasn't declared until 2 years later? (i will not remove it unless it is ok to do so) Anthony hello123 (talk) 02:14, 20 February 2021 (UTC)