Jump to content

Talk:2023 WXV

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Third opinions

[edit]

Lead sentence

[edit]

For a third opinion: which of these reads better as a lead sentence: the current one (1) or my proposal (2)? While MOS:LEAD does encourage the title be used, an exception is made if it feels unnatural, and "the 2023 WXV is an edition of WXV held in 2023" is both unnatural and borderline MOS:REDUNDANCY in my opinion. The name "2023 WXV" is also seldom used in official sources and reliable third-party sources. MOS:AVOIDBOLD also encourages bold font to not be used in these instances, which is why it is not used in my proposed version.

(1) The 2023 WXV is the first edition of WXV [...] and will take place between 14 October and 4 November 2023.
(2) The first edition of WXV [...] will take place between 14 October and 4 November 2023.

AFC Vixen 🦊 23:37, 25 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hello, here to give a 3O.
All other things being equal, my preference is for (1). I don't think any of the exceptions in MOS:LEAD really apply here, and, speaking as someone who knows nothing of this topic, I would be disoriented if I encountered (2) because the page title doesn't make it clear that this is the first edition. Also, the first sentence truly concludes with "14 October and 4 November 2023," so it's not exactly redundant—it gives more specific information that "WXV 2023" lacks.
That said, if you feel that "WXV 2023" is a poor title for this page, that's another issue altogether. Maybe it is a poor title, and if so, renaming the page might lead to a better first sentence. If you wanted to convince me that the title should be changed, I would hope you would suggest an alternate title and supply some authoritative sources demonstrating that your suggested title really represents common parlance. Of course, you probably wouldn't need to sway just me, but that sort of evidence would probably sway others too.
Also, if the subject of this page isn't covered at all in RS as a distinct concept, it kinda calls the page itself into question. The sources here all seem to talk about WXV1, WXV2, and WXV3 separately. Maybe each of these tournaments should have its own page instead? I kind of get the impression that the discussion above has something to do with this but I feel like I'm missing a lot of context there.
As a side note, I'd like to gently remind both of you (@Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel) to be kind and respectful towards one another. In my eyes, it's not particularly civil to say to another editor "The facts just don't care about your feelings," to call another editor's behavior "childish," to say "It is genuinely the most boring experience arguing with you," to call another editor "lazy," or to describe them as "having a big sook." Please remember, we all must strive to treat the other person with respect and goodwill even if their behavior is frustrating. I know it's hard, but it's what keeps the world spinning—we could never have formed a culture without that beautiful human capacity. 🍉◜◞🄜e𝚜𝚘𝚌𝚊r🅟🜜🥑《 𔑪‎talk〗⇤ 23:17, 26 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for your opinion. All I’ll say is that it’s just nice to be able to get an opinion from somebody who doesn’t clearly outright disrespect other editors and participates in blanket reverts and stonewalling. I apologise for my use of language in particular, I’ll continue to try my best to be as respectful as possible when criticising other users’ poor behaviour. — AFC Vixen 🦊 01:07, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Sure thing. ^^ Also, you don't need to apologize to me, I wasn't involved :P I just wanted to say something as a bystander. It's certainly good to be respectful if you must criticize, but in most cases I would say it's not even necessary to criticize at all—we're here to work on the articles, so most of the time I find it works to just ignore anything unkind or personal and stay laser-focused on the article content in disputes. Also, it really helps to center debates on questions that RS or at least some kind of hard evidence can answer whenever possible, because those kinds of debates can be easily and often genially resolved. Matters of pure opinion are dangerous, and debates based purely around policy are honestly not much better. 🍉◜◞🄜e𝚜𝚘𝚌𝚊r🅟🜜🥑《 𔑪‎talk〗⇤ 11:42, 27 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Rugby box

[edit]

For a third opinion: This article will eventually list between 27–31 rugby matches. Should {{Rugby box collapsible}} or {{Rugby box}} be used to list them? While {{Rugby box collapsible}} can be expanded for more information, which can also be set as default, {{Rugby box}} doesn't have a collapsible option, and doesn't have a column on the left to display notes such as "Test: 1612".

Test: 1612 20 October New Zealand 14–12 England   LB Wellington Regional Stadium, Wellington  
19:00 NZDT (UTC+13) Try:
Mikaele-Tu'u 45'
du Plessis 79'
Con:
Holmes (2/2)
Report Try:
18', 55' MacDonald
Con:
(1/2) Tuima
Cards:
75' to end Yellow card Campbell
Attendance: 29,557
Referee: Aimee Barrett-Theron (South Africa)
Test: 1621 28 October LB   Canada 21–23 Wales Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin  
15:30 NZDT (UTC+13) Try:
Beukeboom 20'
Tuttosi 48'
Bermudez 71'
Con:
de Goede (3/3) 21', 49', 72'
Cards:
Taylor Red card 74'
Report Try:
5' Pyrs
18', 65' Evans
Con:
6' (1/3) Snowsill
Pen:
75' Bevan
Drop:
80' Bevan
Cards:
72' to end Yellow card Snowsill
Attendance: 14,120
Referee: Joy Neville (Ireland)
Test: 1628 3 November Wales 3–31 New Zealand TB   Mount Smart Stadium, Auckland  
19:30 NZDT (UTC+13) Pen:
Snowsill 51'
Report Try:
4', 67', 75' Leti-I'iga
22' Ponsonby
37' Fluhler
Con:
5', 38', 66' (3/5) Holmes
Attendance: 23,850
Referee: Hollie Davidson (Scotland)
Test: 1629 4 November Australia 21–7 France Mount Smart Stadium, Auckland  
14:00 NZDT (UTC+13) Try:
Talakai 15'
Hamilton 28'
Wong 42'
Con:
Smith (2/2) 16', 29'
McKenzie (0/1)
Pen:
Smith 74'
Report Try:
53' Boujard
Con:
54' (1/1) Trémoulière
Attendance: 17,950
Referee: Julianne Zussman (Canada)
{{Rugby box}} example
20 October
19:00 NZDT (UTC+13)
New Zealand 14–12 England   LB
Try:
Mikaele-Tu'u 45'
du Plessis 79'
Con:
Holmes (2/2)
ReportTry:
18', 55' MacDonald
Con:
(1/2) Tuima
Cards:
75' to end Yellow card Campbell
Wellington Regional Stadium, Wellington
Attendance: 29,557
Referee: Aimee Barrett-Theron (South Africa)

28 October
15:30 NZDT (UTC+13)
LB   Canada 21–23 Wales
Try:
Beukeboom 20'
Tuttosi 48'
Bermudez 71'
Con:
de Goede (3/3) 21', 49', 72'
Cards:
Taylor Red card 74'
ReportTry:
5' Pyrs
18', 65' Evans
Con:
6' (1/3) Snowsill
Pen:
75' Bevan
Drop:
80' Bevan
Cards:
72' to end Yellow card Snowsill
Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin
Attendance: 14,120
Referee: Joy Neville (Ireland)

3 November
19:30 NZDT (UTC+13)
Wales 3–31 New Zealand TB  
Pen:
Snowsill 51'
ReportTry:
4', 67', 75' Leti-I'iga
22' Ponsonby
37' Fluhler
Con:
5', 38', 66' (3/5) Holmes
Mount Smart Stadium, Auckland
Attendance: 23,850
Referee: Hollie Davidson (Scotland)

4 November
14:00 NZDT (UTC+13)
Australia 21–7 France
Try:
Talakai 15'
Hamilton 28'
Wong 42'
Con:
Smith (2/2) 16', 29'
McKenzie (0/1)
Pen:
Smith 74'
ReportTry:
53' Boujard
Con:
54' (1/1) Trémoulière
Mount Smart Stadium, Auckland
Attendance: 17,950
Referee: Julianne Zussman (Canada)

AFC Vixen 🦊 07:02, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. Friendly reminder that the "Test number" info was deemed irrelevant during the delete discussion of templates Wrugbybox and Wrcode. That being said, I personally prefer the use of collapsible. PotatoNerd (talk) 09:20, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I never knew of this prior, so thank you for bringing that to my attention. — AFC Vixen 🦊 10:06, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
My definitive answer is neither. Cards are irrelevant for displaying as they are put in the team sheet anyway. If you really want collapsible boxes, then put the entire competition in a collapsible box... Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel (talk) 17:04, 16 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@PotatoNerd: Apologies for bothering you, but is it possible you could clarify why you prefer the use of collapsible rugby boxes, so that your viewpoint is clearer? — AFC Vixen 🦊 05:06, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well, there's one small technical issue: if you have in the page an element with float right (like for example maps with the teams locations) and a rugbybox next to it, the match data gets displayed wonkily, because rugbybox has a display block while collapsible has a display table. It's a minor issue, though. Mostly is just I find collapsible to be more visually pleasing? Like Marge Simpson said, "I just think they're neat". PotatoNerd (talk) 18:32, 18 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Italy v Spain background

[edit]

For a third opinion: Should a brief, one-sentence summary of recent encounters between Italy and Spain's women's rugby union teams be added to provide readers a context and background to their consequential play-in match? Its relevancy is supported by an article from the sport's governing body, which notes Spain's losses, and the World Cup qualifying match in particular, as context for the upcoming match.[1]

(1) The European play-in will be staged as a single match between Italy and Spain on 22 July in Piacenza, Italy.
(2) The European play-in will be staged as a single match between Italy and Spain on 22 July in Piacenza, Italy. Spain had lost their previous two encounters against Italy, including a 2021 Rugby World Cup qualifier where Italy ended Spain's World Cup bid by scoring five tries in a convincing 34–10 victory.

AFC Vixen 🦊 05:06, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

3O Response: I prefer option 2. I see no harm in a background sentence. It is useful to the reader, and can be expanded upon with the match results when it occurs. Having background sections in articles about sports matches is pretty common, and although it is not an article about a match, I see no reason not to include it. JML1148 (talk | contribs) 11:09, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I forgot to mention this in the original comment, but Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel needs to be more civil and assume good faith in their interactions. Especially for an editor that is not new, some comments seriously concern me. JML1148 (talk | contribs) 11:12, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Of course, in a heated feud, it is difficult to remain civil but I will try my best to do so. Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel (talk) 11:14, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Year in infobox

[edit]

For a third opinion: Should the year be repeated in the "Dates" cell of this article's infobox, even if the infobox's title, "2023 WXV", already implies that the subject takes place in 2023? e.g. "14 October — 4 November 2023" instead of simply "14 October — 4 November"? — AFC Vixen 🦊 04:22, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Response to third opinion request:
I think that yes, the year should be repeated in the "Dates" cell of the infobox.

Doing so doesn't clutter the infobox, contributes to the infobox's goal of summarizing the key facts of an article, and is worth adding for the sake of completeness. Tuckertwo (talk) 22:03, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lineups

[edit]
Example

The round five match between England and France was held at Twickenham Stadium in London, England; the first ever time the English women's national rugby union team had played a headlining match there.[1] It was the final test match for French forward Jessy Trémoulière after 78 games, and English coach Simon Middleton, who had led the team since 2015.[2] The world attendance record for a women's rugby union match was set during the game at 58,498, surpassing the 2021 World Cup final's attendance of 42,579.[3] Claiming a 38–33 victory over France, England consequently won their 19th Women's Six Nations title (their 5th in succession) and their 17th Grand Slam.

29 April 2023
13:00 BST (UTC+1)
TB   England 38–33 France   TBLB  
Try:
Dow 17'
M. Packer 26'
Matthews 32'
Penalty try 36'
Aldcroft 40+2'
Davies 60'
Con:
Rowland (3/5) 26', 33', 40+3'
ReportTry:
49' Boulard
56' Vernier
66' Escudero
76' Gros
80' Banet
Con:
50', 57', 67' (3/4) Trémoulière
80+1' (1/1) Arbez
Pen:
(0/1) Trémoulière
Cards:
32' Yellow card Trémoulière
36' Yellow card Bernadou
Twickenham Stadium, London
Attendance: 58,498
Referee: Aimee Barrett-Theron (RSA)
Assistant referees: Lauren Jenner (NZL), Maria Heitor (POR)
Television match official: Ben Whitehouse (WAL)
Lineups
Starting: Starting:
Coach: Coach:
Simon Middleton England France Gaëlle Mignot • David Ortiz
Syntax

Usage example

{{Rugby lineup simple | show=uncollapsed | style=border
| [[Hannah Botterman]]  | [[Lark Davies]] | [[Sarah Bern]] 
| [[Zoe Aldcroft]] | [[Sarah Beckett]] | '''[[Sadia Kabeya]] ([[Player of the match|p]])'''
| [[Marlie Packer]] ([[Captain (sports)|c]]) | [[Alex Matthews]] | [[Lucy Packer]] 
| [[Holly Aitchison]] | [[Claudia MacDonald]] | [[Tatyana Heard]]
| [[Abigail Dow]] | [[Helena Rowland]] | [[Ellie Kildunne]] 
| [[Connie Powell]] | [[Mackenzie Carson]] | h17=sub | [[Maud Muir]]
| [[Poppy Cleall]] | [[Morwenna Talling]] | [[Natasha Hunt]]
| [[Amber Reed]] | [[Jessica Breach]]
| h1=sub | h2=sub | h3=sub | h5=sub | h6=sub | h11=sub | h12=sub 
| h16=sub | h17=sub | h18=sub | h19=sub | h20=sub | h21=sub | h22=sub | h23=sub
| hc=[[Simon Middleton]] | hcf=ENG

| [[Yllana Brosseau]] | [[Agathe Sochat]] | [[Rose Bernadou]]  
| [[Manaé Feleu]] | [[Audrey Forlani]] ([[Captain (sports)|c]]) | [[Axelle Berthoumieu]] {{Suboff}} {{Subon}}
| [[Gaëlle Hermet]] | [[Charlotte Escudero]] | [[Pauline Bourdon]] 
| [[Jessy Trémoulière]] | [[Mélissande Llorens]] | [[Gabrielle Vernier]] 
| [[Marine Ménager]] | [[Cyrielle Banet]] | [[Émilie Boulard]] 
| Elisa Riffonneau | Ambre Mwayembe | [[Assia Khalfaoui]] 
| [[Romane Ménager]] | [[Émeline Gros]] | [[Alexandra Chambon]] 
| [[Carla Arbez]] | [[Maëlle Filopon]] 
| a1=sub | a3=sub | a5=sub | a6=sub | a9=sub | a13=sub | a15=sub
| a17=sub | a18=sub | a19=sub | a20=sub | a21=sub | a22=sub | a23=sub 
| ac=[[Gaëlle Mignot]]{{*}}David Ortiz | acf=FRA
}}

Bare code

{{Rugby lineup simple | show= | style= | widthalign= | widthleft= | widthcenter=
| 1 | 2 | 3
| 4 | 5 | 6
| 7 | 8 | 9
| 10 | 11 | 12
| 13 | 14 | 15
| 16 | 17 | 18
| 19 | 20 | 21
| 22 | 23
| h1= | h2= | h3= | h4= | h5= | h6= | h7= | h8= | h9= | h10= | h11= | h12= | h13= | h14= | h15=
| h16= | h17= | h18= | h19= | h20= | h21= | h22= | h23= 
| hc= | hcf=

| 1 | 2 | 3
| 4 | 5 | 6
| 7 | 8 | 9
| 10 | 11 | 12
| 13 | 14 | 15
| 16 | 17 | 18
| 19 | 20 | 21
| 22 | 23
| a1= | a2= | a3= | a4= | a5= | a6= | a7= | a8= | a9= | a10= | a11= | a12= | a13= | a14= | a15=
| a16= | a17= | a18= | a19= | a20= | a21= | a22= | a23= 
| ac= | acf=
}}

@Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel: I've come to propose another compromise that I hope is better to you than my last. I've drafted a template for a simplified, collapsible, horizontally-aligned lineup list. It accommodates a full list of players, coaches, and notation for substitutions. Don't worry though, red and yellow cards, assistant referees, and television match officials have been preserved in the rugby box above it! Using it is as simple as writing the names of players on each team from 1 to 23 in order as inputs. Substitutions are easy to note as well. For example, the substitution of a home team's #13 player is written as |h13=sub (downward-facing red arrow Abigail Dow 13), while a blood substitution is noted by |h13=blood (red cross icon Abigail Dow 13). The code is presented in the "Syntax" table above. Thoughts on this being used on this page? — AFC Vixen 🦊 11:57, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Just, no. Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel (talk) 14:50, 19 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Example

The round five match between England and France was held at Twickenham Stadium in London, England; the first ever time the English women's national rugby union team had played a headlining match there.[1] It was the final test match for French forward Jessy Trémoulière after 78 games, and English coach Simon Middleton, who had led the team since 2015.[2] The world attendance record for a women's rugby union match was set during the game at 58,498, surpassing the 2021 World Cup final's attendance of 42,579.[3] Claiming a 38–33 victory over France, England consequently won their 19th Women's Six Nations title (their 5th in succession) and their 17th Grand Slam.

29 April 2023
13:00 BST (UTC+1)
TB   England 38–33 France   TBLB  
Try:
Dow 17'
M. Packer 26'
Matthews 32'
Penalty try 36'
Aldcroft 40+2'
Davies 60'
Con:
Rowland (3/5) 26', 33', 40+3'
ReportTry:
49' Boulard
56' Vernier
66' Escudero
76' Gros
80' Banet
Con:
50', 57', 67' (3/4) Trémoulière
80+1' (1/1) Arbez
Pen:
(0/1) Trémoulière
Twickenham Stadium, London
Attendance: 58,498
Referee: Aimee Barrett-Theron (RSA)
Assistant referees: Lauren Jenner (NZL), Maria Heitor (POR)
Television match official: Ben Whitehouse (WAL)
Lineups
Starting:
50' downward-facing red arrow  Hannah Botterman 1
67' downward-facing red arrow  Lark Davies 2
67' downward-facing red arrow  Sarah Bern 3
Zoe Aldcroft 4
57' downward-facing red arrow  Sarah Beckett 5
75' downward-facing red arrow  Sadia Kabeya (p) 6
Marlie Packer (c) 7
Alex Matthews 8
77' downward-facing red arrow  Lucy Packer 9
Holly Aitchison 10
50' downward-facing red arrow  Claudia MacDonald 11
67' downward-facing red arrow  Tatyana Heard 12
Abigail Dow 13
Helena Rowland 14
Ellie Kildunne 15
Substitutes:
67' upward-facing green arrow  Connie Powell 16
50' upward-facing green arrow  Mackenzie Carson 17
67' upward-facing green arrow  Maud Muir 18
57' upward-facing green arrow  Poppy Cleall 19
75' upward-facing green arrow  Morwenna Talling 20
77' upward-facing green arrow  Natasha Hunt 21
67' upward-facing green arrow  Amber Reed 22
50' upward-facing green arrow  Jessica Breach 23
Coach:
Simon Middleton England
Starting:
1 Yllana Brosseau  downward-facing red arrow 61'
2 Agathe Sochat
3 Rose Bernadou  Yellow card 36' downward-facing red arrow 47'
4 Manaé Feleu
5 Audrey Forlani (c)  downward-facing red arrow 47'
6 Axelle Berthoumieu  downward-facing red arrow 40' upward-facing green arrow 47' downward-facing red arrow 67'
7 Gaëlle Hermet
8 Charlotte Escudero
9 Pauline Bourdon  downward-facing red arrow 70'
10 Jessy Trémoulière  Yellow card 32'
11 Mélissande Llorens
12 Gabrielle Vernier
13 Marine Ménager  downward-facing red arrow 72'
14 Cyrielle Banet
15 Émilie Boulard  downward-facing red arrow 70'
Substitutes:
16 Elisa Riffonneau
17 Ambre Mwayembe  upward-facing green arrow 61'
18 Assia Khalfaoui  upward-facing green arrow 40'
19 Romane Ménager  upward-facing green arrow 47'
20 Émeline Gros  upward-facing green arrow 67'
21 Alexandra Chambon  upward-facing green arrow 70'
22 Carla Arbez  upward-facing green arrow 70'
23 Maëlle Filopon  upward-facing green arrow 72'
Coach:
France Gaëlle Mignot • David Ortiz
Syntax

Usage example

{{Rugby lineup | show=uncollapse | style=border | subs=8 | widthalign=rugby box
| [[Hannah Botterman]]  | h1=suboff  | h1t=50
| [[Lark Davies]]       | h2=suboff  | h2t=67
| [[Sarah Bern]]        | h3=suboff  | h3t=67
| [[Zoe Aldcroft]] 
| [[Sarah Beckett]]     | h5=suboff  | h5t=57
| '''[[Sadia Kabeya]] ([[Player of the match|p]])''' | h6=suboff | h6t=75
| [[Marlie Packer]] ([[Captain (sports)|c]]) 
| [[Alex Matthews]] 
| [[Lucy Packer]]       | h9=suboff  | h9t=77
| [[Holly Aitchison]] 
| [[Claudia MacDonald]] | h11=suboff | h11t=50
| [[Tatyana Heard]]     | h12=suboff | h12t=67
| [[Abigail Dow]] 
| [[Helena Rowland]] 
| [[Ellie Kildunne]] 
| [[Connie Powell]]     | h16=subon  | h16t=67 
| [[Mackenzie Carson]]  | h17=subon  | h17t=50 
| [[Maud Muir]]         | h18=subon  | h18t=67 
| [[Poppy Cleall]]      | h19=subon  | h19t=57
| [[Morwenna Talling]]  | h20=subon  | h20t=75 
| [[Natasha Hunt]]      | h21=subon  | h21t=77 
| [[Amber Reed]]        | h22=subon  | h22t=67
| [[Jessica Breach]]    | h23=subon  | h23t=50
| hc= [[Simon Middleton]] | hcf= ENG

| [[Yllana Brosseau]]    | a1=suboff  | a1t=61
| [[Agathe Sochat]] 
| [[Rose Bernadou]]      | a3=yellow  | a3t=36 | a3e={{Sub off}} 47{{`}}
| [[Manaé Feleu]] 
| [[Audrey Forlani]] ([[Captain (sports)|c]]) | a5=suboff | a5t=47 
| [[Axelle Berthoumieu]] | a6=suboff  | a6t=40 | a6e={{Sub on}} 47{{`}} {{Sub off}} 67{{`}}
| [[Gaëlle Hermet]]  
| [[Charlotte Escudero]]  
| [[Pauline Bourdon]]    | a9=suboff  | a9t=70
| [[Jessy Trémoulière]]  | a10=yellow | a10t=32
| [[Mélissande Llorens]]
| [[Gabrielle Vernier]]
| [[Marine Ménager]]     | a13=suboff | a13t=72
| [[Cyrielle Banet]] 
| [[Émilie Boulard]]     | a15=suboff | a15t=70
| Elisa Riffonneau 
| Ambre Mwayembe         | a17=subon  | a17t=61
| [[Assia Khalfaoui]]    | a18=subon  | a18t=40
| [[Romane Ménager]]     | a19=subon  | a19t=47
| [[Émeline Gros]]       | a20=subon  | a20t=67
| [[Alexandra Chambon]]  | a21=subon  | a21t=70
| [[Carla Arbez]]        | a22=subon  | a22t=70
| [[Maëlle Filopon]]     | a23=subon  | a23t=72
| ac= [[Gaëlle Mignot]]{{*}}David Ortiz | acf= FRA
}}

Bare code

{{Rugby lineup | show= | style= | subs= | widthalign= | widthleft= | widthcenter=
| 1  | h1=  | h1t=  | h1e=
| 2  | h2=  | h2t=  | h2e=
| 3  | h3=  | h3t=  | h3e=
| 4  | h4=  | h4t=  | h4e=
| 5  | h5=  | h5t=  | h5e=
| 6  | h6=  | h6t=  | h6e=
| 7  | h7=  | h7t=  | h7e=
| 8  | h8=  | h8t=  | h8e=
| 9  | h9=  | h9t=  | h9e=
| 10 | h10= | h10t= | h10e=
| 11 | h11= | h11t= | h11e=
| 12 | h12= | h12t= | h12e=
| 13 | h13= | h13t= | h13e=
| 14 | h14= | h14t= | h14e=
| 15 | h15= | h15t= | h15e=
| 16 | h16= | h16t= | h16e=
| 17 | h17= | h17t= | h17e=
| 18 | h18= | h18t= | h18e=
| 19 | h19= | h19t= | h19e=
| 20 | h20= | h20t= | h20e=
| 21 | h21= | h21t= | h21e=
| 22 | h22= | h22t= | h22e=
| 23 | h23= | h23t= | h23e=
| hc= | hcf=

| 1  | a1=  | a1t=  | a1e=
| 2  | a2=  | a2t=  | a2e=
| 3  | a3=  | a3t=  | a3e=
| 4  | a4=  | a4t=  | a4e=
| 5  | a5=  | a5t=  | a5e=
| 6  | a6=  | a6t=  | a6e=
| 7  | a7=  | a7t=  | a7e=
| 8  | a8=  | a8t=  | a8e=
| 9  | a9=  | a9t=  | a9e=
| 10 | a10= | a10t= | a10e=
| 11 | a11= | a11t= | a11e=
| 12 | a12= | a12t= | a12e=
| 13 | a13= | a13t= | a13e=
| 14 | a14= | a14t= | a14e=
| 15 | a15= | a15t= | a15e=
| 16 | a16= | a16t= | a16e=
| 17 | a17= | a17t= | a17e=
| 18 | a18= | a18t= | a18e=
| 19 | a19= | a19t= | a19e=
| 20 | a20= | a20t= | a20e=
| 21 | a21= | a21t= | a21e=
| 22 | a22= | a22t= | a22e=
| 23 | a23= | a23t= | a23e=
| ac= | acf=
}}

@Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel: If a simplified lineup is unsatisfactory to you, this detailed collapsible lineup is also relatively straightforward to use. Like the previous template, the names of players are simply listed from 1 to 23 for each team, though this time it is presented in a more familiar three-column, vertically-oriented format, with support for full substitution and card notation. For example, a red card for the #14 player of the home team in the 18th minute is noted by writing | h14=red | h14t=18 ('18 Red card Lydia Thompson 14). A third column is also supported – h1e, a1e, ect. – for any additional notation whenever needed, such as if a substitution later receives a yellow card, which would be written as | a20=subon | a20t=50 | a20e={{Yellow card}} 65{{`}} (20 Kennedy Simon (c) upward-facing green arrow 50' Yellow card 65'). The code is again presented in the "Syntax" table above. Would you support this being used on the page instead? — AFC Vixen 🦊 02:30, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Change that to the same game as you did the previous proposal then I will make my opinion. Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel (talk) 16:34, 23 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I've updated the example, per your request. — AFC Vixen 🦊 04:04, 24 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel: Still awaiting your opinion. — AFC Vixen 🦊 20:48, 27 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Looks better but still with no point of existing. Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel (talk) 21:08, 9 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It'd be nice if you'd at the very least be helpful in your criticism, instead of just saying "no" and "no point of existing." Saying what exactly about the template you disagree with, and why, would be much more helpful in informing what needs to be changed. — AFC Vixen 🦊 04:59, 10 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Well your only interest is to make everything yours. You want everyone to know that this template is created by you even though it is a carbon copy of a template that already exists and is used. You are wasting time and energy making a copy of something that already exists. Stop wasting my time. We're doing it the same way with the original template and that is final. Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel (talk) 11:17, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Also it is clear you are no expert considering you don't know that Abby Dow is a winger and Helena Rowland was in the centre... Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel (talk) 11:18, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The article as it exists today is the result of numerous discussions involving numerous editors either on this talk page or on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Rugby union, so I'm truly baffled as to why you think this way, and immensely disappointed that you don't seem to care for any attempts at finding common ground between us. — AFC Vixen 🦊 13:39, 11 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I tried finding common ground. I found nothing. I have good relationships with other people, but not with you. Therefore, it's best you leave me alone, and I will leave you alone. Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel (talk) 22:27, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@AFC Vixen, @Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel, May I suggest the following - Underneath each round list the fixtures outside of collapsible boxes. Something like the fixture list on 2023–24 Premiership Women's Rugby, 2023–24 Premiership Rugby. Instead just simply add the squad in a collapsible. In my opion the squad listed should be like the one on 2022–23_Premier_15s#Final. To me this seems like the best compromise. Please consider this and stop being petty. LouisOrr27 (talk) 22:59, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That's what we tried in the W6N a few years ago and it was far too messy so we abandoned it. The whole box being collapsible or nothing at all being collapsible is more sensible. Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel (talk) 23:38, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
For the record, this is exactly what I had tried to do, before Mikey reverted the change. — AFC Vixen 🦊 23:43, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Round 1 20 October England  v  Australia Wellington Regional Stadium, Wellington  
19:00 NZDT (UTC+13)

21 October Canada  v  Wales Wellington Regional Stadium, Wellington  
16:00 NZDT (UTC+13:00)

PotatoNerd, you had a preference for the use of {{Rugby box collapsible}}; LouisOrr27, you seemed to have had the same idea as me, to place lineups underneath each match in a separate collapsible box. Would something like the example above be preferable in your opinions, or are there any further improvements that need to be made? — AFC Vixen 🦊 01:46, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Hi. I liked the idea you had in the green examples at the beginning of this section, but have nothing against this last option either. That being said, I think this has turned into a discussion that should probably be talked with the whole Wikipedia:WikiProject Rugby union cause, ideally, if you gonna make changes to how lineouts are displayed, wouldn't it be better to have more people involved and also, the selected format used in way more places, not only on this particular article? PotatoNerd (talk) 15:55, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Ideally, {{Rugby lineup}} will be eventually proposed to WikiProject Rugby union, but it’s still being worked on. Implementing it here and now would clearly be controversial, and so this interim solution I hope can suffice to resolve the issues unique to the circumstances of this particular article compared to most articles on rugby union competitions. — AFC Vixen 🦊 19:53, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
To me, this looks fine other than in my opinion the fixture it self shouldn't be collapsible just the line-ups. LouisOrr27 (talk) 22:08, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Considering this page has thirty matches displayed, I think it’d be asking too much of readers who simply want to see teams and scores to make them parse through much more information being displayed at once. Not to distract from this conversation, but you brought up 2023–24 Premiership Women's Rugby and 2023–24 Premiership Rugby earlier, and I thought it appropriate to note that a simple Module:Sports results table would suffice for those articles, instead of meticulously detailing all ninety home and away matches. — AFC Vixen 🦊 02:08, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I recommend you stay away from the Premiership, because unlike the Top 14, people actually work on that and are not lazy. Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel (talk) 22:25, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Agree, the system on those articles works perfectly fine. LouisOrr27 (talk) 23:26, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I can get behind having only the lineups being collapsible but not the other bit like he implies. You want to do that? Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel (talk) 23:50, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Only having the lineups being collapsible makes sense to me. LouisOrr27 (talk) 23:53, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It clearly doesn’t; as I said, having uncollapsed rugby boxes on a wealth of fixtures makes the page difficult to navigate and gleam basic information from. I simply don’t see the harm in giving readers an option of a collapsible. — AFC Vixen 🦊 00:21, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The fixtures themselves are basic information... Line-ups not so much. Having the fixtures out side of a collapsible section and the line-ups inside is the best solution. LouisOrr27 (talk) 00:27, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It’s possible I may be misunderstanding your view, and I apologise if I am, but can you clarify if you want {{Rugby box}} or {{Rugby box collapsible}} being used? Because {{Rugby box collapsible}} displays the basic fixture information outside of its collapsed section as you describe, and I’m now confused as to whether or not you want the more detailed information – time, tries, attendance, referees, ect. – to be uncollapsed too, which is what {{Rugby box}} does. — AFC Vixen 🦊 00:42, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The easiest way for me to explain it is for you to look at my most recent edit. LouisOrr27 (talk) 00:44, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It’d be easier if you simply answered on this talk page, but I’m going to guess based off this edit that you want {{Rugby box}}? — AFC Vixen 🦊 00:59, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes... LouisOrr27 (talk) 01:04, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Although i did not state that specifically, it was heavily implied. LouisOrr27 (talk) 01:05, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Then, I’ll just repeat again that uncollapsing all of the detailed information, more than just the basic information of date, teams, score and venue, will cause readability issues; it’ll make said basic information more difficult to gleam among a sea of words and numbers, and the significant increase in article size it’ll cause will make it more difficult to navigate. It really doesn’t have to be this way when {{Rugby box collapsible}} exists as a solution to this very issue. — AFC Vixen 🦊 01:15, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Whatever happened to “you leave me alone, and I will leave you alone”? I literally said nothing to you, yet here you are with another cheap insult. — AFC Vixen 🦊 23:45, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I know you fully had me in mind when talking to him. Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel (talk) 23:51, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Not everything revolves around you. I left you alone, so leave me alone. — AFC Vixen 🦊 23:59, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Then don't touch the stuff I touch. Bye. Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel (talk) 00:13, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, just no. You appear to have little knowledge about the game of rugby. I now understand why @Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel no longer wants to engage with you. The basic information in rugby fixtures is the following; Dates and times of games, who is playing, score, scorers, yellow & red cards as well as the referee. This information should be in Rugby box and not Rugby box collapsible, hence my edit. Information that should be collapsible is things like team line-ups, substitutions and TMO's etc. Your argument would just make the article about the format of the competition with multiple different collapsible boxes. In my view this discussion should be considered over as in my opinion a suitable solution has been found. LouisOrr27 (talk) 01:28, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I don’t understand why you people insist on being uncivil and insulting others to get your points across. Also, there’ll be prose sections detailing the events of the competition when it occurs, so the notion that this will just end up being an article only about the format of the competition is false. — AFC Vixen 🦊 07:40, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
[edit]

@AFC Vixen @Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel As you two seem heavily involved I thought to let you know that I have created WXV 2023 warm-up matches and Draft:WXV 2023 squads. Feel free to work on and improve. LouisOrr27 (talk) 22:59, 22 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think we really need an article on four warm-up games. If there were several more, then I would be obliged to it, but four is too little for my liking. Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel (talk) 12:28, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Noted LouisOrr27 (talk) 21:52, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Lauren Jenner's nationality

[edit]

I'm confused about the nationality of Lauren Jenner. WR states that she referees for the Italian Rugby Federation, but literally every other source says she's a New Zealander. It is obvious that her actual nationality is New Zealand because she is from Auckland and has a thick New Zealand accent. Also notable is that she has refereed Italy before but not New Zealand, which would be impossible if she was really under the FIR. And how typical that she is officiating in the competition that is in... New Zealand. Could someone provide a reliable source to if she changed her allegiance or something? Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel (talk) 20:33, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All though she is from New Zealand, she has reportedly lived in Italy for some time (This was briefly mentioned in commentary of the England Vs Canada game she officiated) and now referees under the FIR. The WXV article says New Zealand/FIR but the World Rugby just says FIR (even though the same person probably wrote them). Noting else is available. My only soluion is listing her as Italy/New Zealand Lauren Jenner (Italy/New Zealand) in the officials section and Lauren Jenner (Italy/New Zealand) in the matches section? LouisOrr27 (talk) 23:12, 11 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I guess we should, although I think it should be done as New Zealand/Italy as greater evidence to suggests her being a New Zealander. Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel (talk) 11:24, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Either, my suggestion is just based alphabetically. LouisOrr27 (talk) 13:58, 12 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WXV 3 - Issue with the collapsible boxes

[edit]

It appears that the games after IRE Vs KAZ in Rd 1 only appear if the collapsible box is open. LouisOrr27 (talk) 22:13, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All cleaned up now. Mikey'Da'Man, Archangel (talk) 14:00, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]