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Archive 1

Future/Past tense

As this event is scheduled to happen in the next 24 hours, everything in the article labeled with "will be" must be changed to "has been" or "was" soon after the event occurs. This is a common problem with all upcoming events articles. Colipon+(Talk) 07:39, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Everyone ready for tomorrow? All my recorder timers are set... I'll edit as it goes along; I'm thinking of identifying the aircraft, tanks, etc, and making a dot-point section, which can be later turned into prose. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 13:30, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
As I am currently in Europe, I cannot watch it live due to time-zone differences. But I am definitely hoping a high-quality version will turn up on YouTube. Colipon+(Talk) 13:46, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

Link for the web broadcast, I believe... Jim101 (talk) 00:36, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

English webcast...man, those guys faux pas British accent is getting on my nerve. Jim101 (talk) 01:02, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

What time in Greenwich time will the parade begin? Cla68 (talk) 00:43, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Officially should be 10 a.m. Beijing time (or 2 a.m. Greenwich time), I just saw soldiers started to mobilze, audiance stands started to fill up... Jim101 (talk) 00:53, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

*60* logo image

I could probably vectorize this if y'all want (although I have absolutely no idea what license it would come under... it is technically not "my own work", as the original author clearly still has ownership over the design). -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 12:44, 30 September 2009 (UTC)

EDIT: Ah... this image seems to have a lot of artifacts... anyone can give a link to a more detailed version, preferably GIF or PNG, or a JPG of over 800x800? -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 12:46, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
Yes I know. But it was the best one I found. I could try cleaning it up first, though. Ohconfucius (talk) 13:18, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
EDIT2: Yup, all done. This son-of-a-bitch SVG is finally done... I've tried to make do with the lossy compression JPG image, and I tried to smooth out the edges a bit, and fixed a whole heap of bugs, but its all good now. Took me a fair while, and plenty of tries, you can tell how frustrated I was by looking at the file history... ;P Oh, some people may need to refresh their browsers, there are a total of 7 different revisions. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 13:24, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
Good work, Ben! Colipon+(Talk) 13:48, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
Looks gorgeous! Ohconfucius (talk) 14:38, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
I LOL'd at this version of the logo: [1] Note that the original image uses 28-point Arial font for the dates. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 01:34, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Did anyone watched the night events?

^Topic...looks like most people just blanked out after the military parade. Jim101 (talk) 22:30, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I did - weren't that exciting. I was watching it only for the fireworks (with reports that it would be "double the firepower of the Olympics opening ceremony"), but it was essentially just a night-long music concert. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 23:33, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
I did. It was sooooo exciting. Personally I think it is worthy to spend much time and money to make such a greate thing. It increase morale for most Chinese people. What a pity that I have no chance to participate in this event. And I fully understand most people from other countries feel nothing about it. Only wars and conflicts make them exciting. Just my own viewpoint. Lee96 (talk) 08:08, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

NPOV dispute [- Security]".

The Times says the authorities have engaged counter-terrorist units and informers in districts where Xinjiang Muslims live; (need reference) Tibetan Buddhists are under surveillance; dissidents have been shut up at home or arrested. (Is it verifiable?) The Times reported Internet users saying censorship has "never been so restrictive" (Users? Who? When? Wikipedia articles only discuss facts instead of opinions. Is this opinion important to the event?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lee96 (talk • contribs) 16:54, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

All the things you say "need a reference" are in the Times source that's cited. rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 17:14, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
And as for the quote... well, it's attributed, but if you think it's POV it could always be reworded out of a quote (i.e., according to The Times, censorship had increased..." or something). The real problem with this section, though, is not POV, but heavy reliance on a shit source (The Times is a sensationalist rumor-monger that publishes whatever it thinks will sound exciting). rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 17:19, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
I just read that source. I strongly agree. Then what is the policy of Wikipedia if the sources violate NPOV? If it is ok. I'd like to create a new website (e.g. www.bullshit.com) and write whatever I like as reference. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lee96 (talk • contribs) 17:52, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
The best way to deal with sources like The Times is to look for corroboration in other, more reliable sources. If you can find similar claims being made elsewhere (for example, BBC, NYT, Telegraph, etc.) it's probably ok to cite. But if you can't find mention of it anywhere else, then it's likely it was just a rumor and The Times didn't fact-check. rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 19:05, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
As for your suggestion about creating your own website... that is dealt with in the Wikipedia guidelines on self-published sources. rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 19:06, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
It is not my suggestion. I assume you know my point is just the reliability and verifiability of the source. And I am still not convinced that it is not a issue of POV. If it is not POV as you said, then what is that? "Heavy reliance on a bad source"? How does Wikipedia define that term? And according to NPOV, generally it is not a good solution to simply remove "NPOV dispute" tag when dispute still exists.
Wikipedia is one of my favorite websites. I hope he have a good future. I hope he become the most reliable and respected website with well orgnized information. NPOV is one of the most important reasons that I stay here. My motivation is very very simple. Just to do something good for him. I was surprised when you directly said that The Times is a sensationalist rumor-monger. I don't care whether it is neutral or bias? But surely I don't wish Wikipedia become the next one of it. If such controversial statements exist everywhere in Wikipedia, it is not neutral point of view, it is viewpoint of The Times instead.
I feel a little frustrated when facing bias as a new participant in discussion. It is not as easy to be neutral as what I thought in this deemed open environment. Part of this feeling comes from the difficulty of communication because my first language is not English. I don't know whether my words is presented in a proper way. If some words I said make you feel uncomfortable, I must apologize for that. And I am sorry that I am not able to constly check the progress of the debate and may probably reply late. Please feel free to email me on this topic. I can only say let it be for things that I can't change. But before that I'd like to reenable the NPOV mark after thinking twice. I wish all participants judge whether it is NPOV again. And I want to say: Rjanag, you are realy great. A lot of people like you made the excellent Wikipedia today. I can't imaging how much time and energe you spent on improving it. I realy admire what you have achieved. Wish your spirit and hard working makes Wikipedia better and beter! Lee96 (talk) 11:13, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
A good idea would be to be WP:BOLD in finding better sources if you have disagreement; otherwise avoid slabbing on the POV template, as this is mostly used for a particular contributor's POV, and not the POV of a used source. Also, try to use the talk page to gain a proper consensus before making any initiative in reapplying the POV template, especially after it has been reverted once. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 11:45, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

New Entry Suggestion

This is really funny. Everytime I see CCP Leaders go about presiding over the military parade (from Deng to now Hu), they always have to say the followings to the troops: "同志们好!" (Greetings, Comrades!) The troops reply: "首长好！" (Greetings, senior leader!!) "同志们辛苦了！" (You must be tired, comrades~!) "为人民服务！" (Serving the People, sir!) haha, I wonder if there is a story behind them and if they are "wiki worthy". What do you guys think? TheAsianGURU (talk) 05:36, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Serving the People are suppose to be an iconic Maosist term, maybe that is the starting point. Jim101 (talk) 06:22, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
Mentioned in ZH Wiki, so I don't see why it cannot be briefly mentioned here, given a source. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 11:42, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Anyone have an interest in starting an entry at 50th Anniversary of the People's Republic of China? That was almost as significant as this one... substitute Hu for Jiang and a much less powerful China... Colipon+(Talk) 23:14, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

I suck at writing but I'll help you with resource, perhaps this video will get things started. Jim101 (talk) 23:46, 3 October 2009 (UTC)

Order of events

In specific order

Soldiers replied "serve the people" and "central good" Jim101 (talk) 02:20, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
DH-10 cruise missle, Chinese ace in the hole... Jim101 (talk) 02:25, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Rough order: male infantry, female infantry, navy personnel, air personnel, medium tanks, Main Battle Tanks, amphibious personnel carriers, APCs, Towed artillery, more APCs, Anti-Air, SRBMs/MRBMs, radar detection vehicles, Second Artillery Corps ICBMs (last one); Hu's motorcade makes a U-turn -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 02:18, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Orchestra music: "Dang Bing de Ren" (当兵的人) -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 02:24, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Hu's speech 12:28PM UTC+10 -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 02:28, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Begin march 12:36PM UTC+10: Infantry, People's Armed Police. 陆兵方队；特种兵部队；剪刀部队；大连海军学员部队；水兵方队；飞行学员部队；Second Artillery Corps personnel; 三军女兵部队; 无警方队； 预备~~方队 (sorry, missed the middle bit)， 女民兵方队. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 02:38, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Takeoff of early warning aircraft at 12:49PM UTC+10 -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 02:49, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
  • 坦克第一方队; 96A tank division; APC division (at this point, Wu Bangguo looks really excited, LOL); amphib. landing craft; air force combat personnel carriers (? didn't really get the name); 武警装甲车方队; heavy towed artillery division; 100mm gun carrier; 火箭炮方队 (these look awesome; rocket artillery); Anti-tank division; 高射炮方队 (Anti-Air guns); Anti-Air missile div. (2x L, 2x R); 海军监控导弹; heavy AA missiles (unsure of model, resembles Russian S-300P, but with three shots only); 12th AA division; what appears to be a S-300 variant; active radar division; 空信兵方队; 无人机方队 (UAV drones); medic + refuel vehicles; 东15 missile div. (DF-15B) (man I love the propaganda commentator here: "To ensure peace and security for all"); 东11 missile; 长剑 missile; 东21 missile; DF-31, first sight at planes (early warning + 8 jets, too far to identify); lol Jiang Zemin just coughed... he looked so funny; 2 jets + bomber?; 6H bomber squadron; refuel aircraft + 2 jets; Navy 7A aircraft; J-10; J-11 squadron; 直8 helicopters; 直9 helicopters (with 4xL, 4xR missile pods); "female jet pilot" (according to commentator) -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 02:50, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
  • CCTV-1 footage switches to ships/submarines at sea, + helicopters -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 03:27, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Giant PRC flag (1:24PM UTC+10), float: "1949 国民 2009", party monument float, Mao float (troops chanting "万岁万岁万岁"), centre placards read "人民万岁"; float: "毛主席思想万岁" (audio recording: mao's declaration of PRC); float: "中国人民从此~起来了"; 哇。。。美女 in the crowd with the 毛主席 float :P; Monument to workers float; 春天 float with Deng Xiaoping portrait; few more slogans, Jiang Zemin portrait float (and LOL at Jiang's expression as he looks at himself); slogans "三个代表", "全面建。。。"; "Science and Technology advancement" float with Hu Jintao portrait (unlike Jiang, Hu looks very shy to respond when his recording is played); more slogans -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 03:27, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Song played: "Chairman Mao is the Red Sun"; "今天是您的生日，我的中国" -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 03:42, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Monument to Agriculture float; float of farmers; construction workers float (with a car on top, looks like a Toyota Camry); economic development float (with a train, jet plane and monorail); renewable energy float (w/ windfarms, people holding mirrors); environmental regrowth float; democracy float; judicial float; science float; outer space float; education float; cultural float; sports float (with Liu Xiang atop); Olympics float; hygiene float -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 03:44, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
  • End at 2:30PM UTC+10 -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 04:29, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Not in any specific order

I saw the thing, but PAP with AA guns? Jim101 (talk) 01:58, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
ZBD2000 Amphibious Fighting Vehicle IMO. And the 10 minute CCTV BS is really stupid. Jim101 (talk) 02:00, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Military Parade Order

In reverse

  • Military Parade End
  • Show off unknown nuclear sub, 052C destoryer and Type 054A frigate
  • Air trainer...my internet dropped
  • (It's confirmed, WZ-10 program is in limbo after Canada refuse to provide engines)
  • Z-9W
  • Z-9 (recon verison with TY-90 AA missile)
  • Z-8(A?)
  • J-11B
  • J-10
  • J-8F
  • JH-7A (can arm with AS and ASu missile)
  • H-6 refuler with J-8
  • H-6 refuler with J-10
  • H-6H LACM carrier
  • KJ-200 with J-11B?
  • KJ-2000 with August 1st aerobatic team (with J-7 or J-10?)
  • Air force
  • DF-31A ICBM
  • DF-21 MRBM
  • DF-11/M-11 SRBM?
  • DF-15 SRBM
  • Logistic and Engineer formation
  • ASN series tactial UAV (looks like strategic UAV is still not ready for PLA)
  • Signal/communication formation
  • Electronic warfare
  • HQ-9 SAM
  • CJ-10 naval (shore defence or LACM?) curise missle (first time shown anywhere)
  • YJ-83? Anti-ship missile
  • YJ-91 Anti-ship missile
  • HQ-7 SAM
  • Type 95 SPAAG
  • HJ-9 missile tank destoryer
  • PHL03 MRLS
  • PTL02 Wheeled Tank Destroyer
  • PLL05 120mm Self-Propelled Mortar-Howitzer
  • Type 07 (PLZ89) SP 122mm howitzer
  • Type 05 (PLZ05) SP 155mm howitzer
  • Type 08/ZSL92/WZ551A Anti-riot IFV
  • Airbrone IFV ZLC2000
  • Marine Type 05 Amphibious tank (ZBD2000)
  • New wheel IFV looks like Styker, never seen it before...
  • ZBD97 IFV??
  • Army Type 05 Amphibious tank (ZBD2000)
  • ZTZ96A Tank
  • ZTZ99 Tank
  • Equipment shown-off, 90% first shown publicly, all made in China...
  • KJ-2000 take off
  • Infantry finish
  • Woman militia (Beijing militia, suppose from everywhere)
  • Reserve force (represent 4 branches)
  • PAP, Beijing garrision
  • 3 Branch woman ceremonial guard
  • Second Artillery Cadet
  • Airborne (Triangle Hill hero lineage)
  • Air officier Cadet
  • Marine Corps (airbrone, land, underwater warfare capable)
  • (Submeriner cadet)/Sailor
  • Navy officier cadet
  • Special Operation Force (Sharp Sword? 1st time here)
  • Infantry
  • Army officier cadet
  • 3 Branch ceremonial guard
  • Military Parade Start

Just in it for the military show off...the rest of the propagada stuff is giving me a headach. Cheers. Jim101 (talk) 03:39, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Alright now, how to turn into prose?

Should we have a few paragraphs in prose giving a chronological account of what happened during the parade? Also, after watching troops marching over and over, I don't really think that they were goosestepping like they were in 1999. To me, it looks like a more moderate and standard kind of march; the legs aren't lifted as high like footage from North Korea, and the feet are not pointed upwards. As for the female infantry, there was little leg raise at all. As for the weather, it was clear and fine, with small amounts of cloud, thanks to fog-disposal efforts by the air force. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 05:59, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

The article is currently too focused on the preparations and security measures and doesn't have nearly as much on the actual event itself. I would highly encourage you to turn the important parts into prose. Some parts can be lumped together. For example, there is probably no use in describing every provincial float in detail, if you get my drift. Colipon+(Talk) 13:44, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

As has been discussed at length elsewhere, the parade-step of the PLA is most definitely a goose-step, since it involves a kick at the end FOARP (talk) 06:04, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Things maybe worth mentioning?

(or maybe not—this is just for brainstorming)

Maybe a small section could mention how the upcoming anniversary may be affecting/have affected government policies and actions. I know in news articles and analyses of lots of recent incidents, people have been speculating that so-and-so was done because the government is preparing for its 60 anniversary celebrations...for example, since they're trying to rush the refugees back out of Yunnan in the aftermath of the Kokang incident, news has been claiming "oh it's because they're cleaning up before the anniversary", etc. There might not be anything worthwhile here; just jotting things down as I think of them. rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 17:21, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

I think that is certainly a good idea. If you can provide for some sources it would be great :) Colipon+(Talk) 23:13, 16 September 2009 (UTC)
Are these the kinds of things you are referring to? Thought I'd add a couple as well, up to you if you decide to include them or not:
- It was reported that Tibet was closed to foreigners... (The Straits Times) (AP) but this was later denied... (Xinhua) (People's Daily)
- The manipulation of the weather so as to ensure sunny skies.. not sure if this is mentioned in the Wiki article (The Guardian)
- Schools also closed on the practice day (RTHK)
- After those two fatal stabbings, a French woman was also attacked in another incident (The Standard) (AP) which later resulted in the banning of knives sales in Beijing (AFP) (China Daily)
- Cyber attacks on foreign media (Reuters, The Straits Times, Dow Jones, AFP, and Italian news agency Ansa) in Beijing (The Register)
- Beijing Airport will close from 9.30am (local time) on Oct 1 for 3 hours, affecting around 180 flights (China Daily)

I suppose they are more miscellaneous facts than anything, but some could be added - especially to the "preparations" section. Hope that helps for now! Midway (talk) 00:42, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

I understand that many governments will be particularly interested in the new hardware that is showcased in the military parade, as well as the human interest story with the new female fighter pilots. If anyone reading this will be observing the parade, any pictures you might take, if legal to do so, of course, would be very helpful to a great many Wikipedia articles on Chinese military weapons. Cla68 (talk) 08:01, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
...assuming you can get within a mile of the parade ;) rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 13:26, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
Not my problem. You guys in China know what you can and can't do. Cla68 (talk) 14:47, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
I just mean it'll probably be crazy crowded, so it might be hard to get any pictures close-up. As for me, I'm stuck in the midwestern US, so I won't be seeing anything interesting anyway :( rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 14:54, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
Normally CCTV's live broadcast would brag about each weapon system one by one, if my memory of 1999 is correct. But unless someone got live feed to CCTV (which I don't), we will have to wait for some papers published after the parade. Jim101 (talk) 15:08, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
I have live feed to CCTV-1 via satellite. I intend on recording the parade on HDD Recorder (as 720p DivX) and uploading the whole thing to Youtube. I would do screenshots, but they most definitely won't meet WP copyright policy, so I'm not really going to bother. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 06:48, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
And also, if Cla68 still remember that nasty business on the WP:RS board, most of the stories conducted by Chinese media will have a high rate of rejection here unless gets republished in western sources. Jim101 (talk) 15:10, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
Well, I used a Chinese state newspaper for this information and no one objected. I guess it depends on the nature and location of the edit as to whether anyone objects or not. Cla68 (talk) 04:54, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
High quality 720p video for those who missed it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTCSUDovxRw ([2] low res) This is only a 10 minute portion of the very beginning, but this is currently all that is available. Once I finish converting the video format, I will upload my own video onto youtube. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 06:23, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Just realised: LOL at the license plate number of Hu Jintao's limosine motorcade: 京V-02009. :P -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 06:42, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Article on training for the event: Training The Chinese Army For The National Day Parade - chinaSMACK Strings were used during training to keep the lines straight. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 14:51, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Etc

Regards, -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 14:57, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

Possible images that can be used

It's a PLA Army Engineering Corp vehicle. (Can be a tank tow-er) TheAsianGURU (talk) 19:15, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

We could possibly get OTRS permission for these; the same author has authorised usage of File:Ampbibiois IFV in Beijing.jpg, File:Military Parade in Beijing.jpg and File:Tank in front of Gucci.jpg. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 05:23, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I love that picture - a howitzer in front of Gucci...I would take Gucci any day tho, at least I look "fabulous." lol TheAsianGURU (talk) 19:15, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't know about the pictures, but reading the comments on this flickr photo has been quite sobering! And I don't think "liu_lei" is even being sarcastic... rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 19:31, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Nah, I think she was being sarcastic... TheAsianGURU (talk) 19:53, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't quite understand the way these file permissions work. So we can ask the photographer at Flickr if we can use his photos and then just post it? The Gucci tank is now over at "Economic reform in the People's Republic of China". Colipon+(Talk) 21:34, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Yep, generally just send them a message asking if they can change the license to CC. I have a flickr account and I've never posted a picture, I just use it to send people messages :S rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 22:26, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

One example of complaints on the quality of CCTV's coverage

Regards, -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 09:32, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

If you can find the source for this blog post, it would be more wiki worthy...Jim101 (talk) 13:48, 5 October 2009 (UTC)
Yes, everyone's been recently complaining about CCTV's coverage. I'll try to find sources. I see that on internet forums, there are people complaining about camera angles and things like that, and constantly referring to CCTV as "CCAV" (China Central Adult Video, a common internet phrase), but such pages are far from WP:RS. I remember though, when I was watching the parade, the camera was panning left and right as if the cameraman had fallen asleep while leaning on it. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 14:23, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

More complaints:

Also notable is that ChinaSmack has an article on the issue: CCTV’s National Day Parade Broadcast Disappoints Netizens - chinaSMACK - this may be of usefulness. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 14:41, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

A bit off-topic. CCTV cameras focused on Hu Jintao every time the women's corps passed through, and he seemed extremely happy. Quite interesting to watch. Also, Jiang Zemin seems to be sitting most of the time during the parade... a sign of his unmistakable old age. Colipon+(Talk) 23:02, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

I would be too... those skirts were much higher then they were in 1999... ^^ Also, when Jiang Zemin's portrait came through the 2009 parade, he looked like he was going "tee hee", while when Hu Jintao's came through, Hu was really shy to respond, and kept a neutral face. I found that rather amusing. (One can only comment on these two because Mao and Deng are too dead to be responding to their portraits) And Wu Bangguo seems to be excited by every little thing, popping around eager to talk to other Politburo members on the upper balcony... I didn't see Li Peng although his name was read out at the end of the rollcall on CCTV-1. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 00:22, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

Empire State Building

I might expand the section soon (created new section just recently); currently awaiting a reply from a few people from Flickr regarding photos they took of the ESB on the evening of Oct 1. Just to note, I don't really like some of these quotes, but they were the first I could find. They always word it so that the Anniversary is that of communist China, and that there are no other words in the English language that can represent the PRC. At least AFP was much less worse than the "bloody communist takeover" described by Fox News. -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 04:54, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

Here are all the images, pick the best few to incorporate into the article:

30 Sep 09
1 Oct 09
1 Oct 09
1 Oct 09

Regards, -- 李博杰  | —Talk contribs email 23:46, 13 November 2009 (UTC)

Evening Gala

Someone had, unknowingly, created an article on the Evening Gala on Oct 1. I decided that it would be best to redirect it to this page, because much of its content overlaps with the content of this article. I will paste all of its contents here in case we ever need it. Colipon+(Talk) 13:55, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

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