1 Million March 4 Children was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 28 September 2023 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Anti-gender movement. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.
The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, which has been designated as a contentious topic.
Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. Ifconsensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sexology and sexuality, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of human sexuality on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Sexology and sexualityWikipedia:WikiProject Sexology and sexualityTemplate:WikiProject Sexology and sexualitySexology and sexuality articles
This article is of interest to WikiProject LGBTQ+ studies, which tries to ensure comprehensive and factual coverage of all LGBTQ-related issues on Wikipedia. For more information, or to get involved, please visit the project page or contribute to the discussion.LGBTQ+ studiesWikipedia:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesTemplate:WikiProject LGBTQ+ studiesLGBTQ+ studies articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Discrimination, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Discrimination on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DiscriminationWikipedia:WikiProject DiscriminationTemplate:WikiProject DiscriminationDiscrimination articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Christianity, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Christianity on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ChristianityWikipedia:WikiProject ChristianityTemplate:WikiProject ChristianityChristianity articles
This article is part of WikiProject Gender studies. This WikiProject aims to improve the quality of articles dealing with gender studies and to remove systematic gender bias from Wikipedia. If you would like to participate in the project, you can choose to edit this article, or visit the project page for more information.Gender studiesWikipedia:WikiProject Gender studiesTemplate:WikiProject Gender studiesGender studies articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Conservatism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of conservatism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ConservatismWikipedia:WikiProject ConservatismTemplate:WikiProject ConservatismConservatism articles
A fact from Anti-gender movement appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 5 September 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
Darakchi, Shaban (2019). "'The Western Feminists Want to Make Us Gay': Nationalism, Heteronormativity, and Violence Against Women in Bulgaria in Times of 'Anti-gender Campaigns'". Sexuality & Culture. 23 (4): 1208–1229. doi:10.1007/s12119-019-09611-9. S2CID164787646.
Dietze, Gabriele (2015). "Anti-Genderismus intersektional lesen". Zeitschrift für Medienwissenschaft (in German and English). 13: Überwachung und Kontrolle 7 (2): 125–127. doi:10.25969/mediarep/1625.
Ďurinová, Petra; Malová, Darina (2017). "Gender issues in Kotleba's People's Party of Our Slovakia: An attempt at a thematic analysis". Human Affairs. 27 (1): 59–74. doi:10.1515/humaff-2017-0006. S2CID152055594.
Fillod, Odile (2014). "L'invention de la 'théorie du genre': le mariage blanc du Vatican et de la science". Contemporary French Civilization (in French). 39 (3): 321–333. doi:10.3828/cfc.2014.19.
Gaweda, Barbara (2017). "The Recent Uprising against Gender Equality. Exploring the discursive construction of the "war on genderism" in Poland". Comunicazione Politica (2): 251–268. doi:10.3270/87223.
Harsin, Jayson (30 November 2017). "Tactical Connecting and (Im-)Mobilizing in the French Boycott School Day Campaign and Anti-Gender Theory Movement". Global Cultures of Contestation: Mobility, Sustainability, Aesthetics & Connectivity. Springer International Publishing. pp. 193–214. ISBN978-3-319-63982-6.
Keil, André (2020). "'We need to rediscover our manliness…': The language of gender and authenticity in German right-wing populism". Journal of Language and Politics. 19 (1): 107–124. doi:10.1075/jlp.19091.kei. S2CID212858517.
Korolczuk, Elżbieta (2020). "Counteracting Challenges to Gender Equality in the Era of Anti-Gender Campaigns: Competing Gender Knowledges and Affective Solidarity". Social Politics: International Studies in Gender, State & Society. 27 (4): 694–717. doi:10.1093/sp/jxaa021.
Opposition to gender ideology is obviously not confined to some sort of right-wing fringe. According to Pew Research, as of 2021, 60 percent of Americans believe sex is not "assigned at birth" and this percentage has been growing for several years. The gender ideology is the anomaly, not the opposition. 68.131.47.147 (talk) 15:26, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
If you have a concrete suggestion for an edit to the article, please propose it. Or, if you have confirmed that it would not violate Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, simply make the edit. Please note also that this page is not a forum for discussion of anti-transgender movements or sentiments in general, discussion here should be narrowly focused on improving the article. SreySrostalk19:44, 14 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I totally agree with OP here. The entire article is essentially a refutation of those who criticize the LGBT movement and is entirely one-sided. Need more perspectives here. DivineReality (talk) 02:56, 7 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Getting rid of the mildly pejorative phrase, "right-winger" and the polemic, "far right" to connote adherents would be a good start. I consider neutral right-wing populists, conservatives. As opposition to gender ideology among Christians is not limited to "fundamentalists", remove "fundamentalists" as the head of the phrase and describe the Christian opposition with "some Christians". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.205.225.132 (talk) 13:24, 2 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This page isn’t a debate among different Wikipedia editors about what words *we* think the article should use; it's a discussion among editors about how to best represent the prevailing opinion among reliable, secondary sources, regardless of our own views. If you have some backing from such sources for your wording suggestions, please present them, otherwise please kindly refrain from giving your own opinions about what the article should say. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 15:53, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Mathglot grand so. Can you give a source that shows any of these groups saying they are part of an "anti gender movement"?
I can only reiterate what Mathglot has already said. We go by the prevailing opinion(s) among reliable, secondary sources, regardless of our own views. You may think that they are biased but that isn't our concern. DanielRigal (talk) 23:18, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@DanielRigal so why are there no mentions of polls in the article? Why is the whole article slanted in one direction? You don't think any sort of pushback exists outside of right wing and far right politics? Youhavetodobetter (talk) 23:38, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Again, you are asking questions that have already been answered. If you can find reliable coverage of the polls then they can be included. If you can't then that's not our concern. Feel free to make a suggestion for an addition with reliable sources to back it up but please don't kvetch vaguely about bias. That violates WP:NOTFORUM and gets nobody anywhere. DanielRigal (talk) 23:44, 5 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Some secondary coverage would be good, and I'm not sure that the specific passports question is worth including, but that's a good start. What text do you suggest we can add which is supported by that Pew source? DanielRigal (talk) 00:14, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
In the opening "The anti-gender movement is an international movement which opposes what it refers to as "gender ideology", "gender theory" or "genderism". The concepts cover a variety of issues and have no coherent definition".
Can we get proof that there is actually a joint international movement and not just different people all over the world that are not united in anyway other than that they sometimes agree on some of laws that are aimed at trans.
If the polls show that the majority of UK citizens are not 100% behind laws that put trans women in the same bracket as women and same for trans men and men then it cannot possibly be some sort of right wing/christian conspiracry. The numbers just arent there to support it. It has to be clearly defined in the lead that many people from all walks of life are not on board. Nothappycamping (talk) 00:24, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe if you could stop minimizing genuine concerns from other editors, this article can get somewhere. It is clear that this is a contentious topic; there is no need to riducle what @Nothappycamping wrote above. Zilch-nada (talk) 14:05, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The article needs to be based on reliable sources that verifiably mention the topic. People who post here to complain about the article generally don't bring any so whatever changes they think should be made, cannot be. (t · c) buidhe14:26, 2 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Buidhe but the topic only exists on one side of the debate. The groups or the people who are accused of being members of the "anti gender movement" never use the phrase.
I don't see any mention of "gender ideology", "anti-gender movement", or equivalent expressions in the articles about the polls, so I don't think they are verifiably connected to the topic of this article. (t · c) buidhe00:20, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
But no one uses that phrase. ITs not a thing only in a small section of academia. Its not a real world phrase. This is ridiculous.
I would suggest that the article does not read as neutral due to issues with the secondary sources already present in the article. Specifically, I question whether they are reliable (or, in the alternative, reliably summarized).
For example, the phrase "all that conservative Catholics despise" appears twice in the article from Anti-Gender Campaigns in Europe: Mobilizing Against Equality. This is a rather empty signifier itself (Catholicism is a global movement whose adherents differ radically in belief, plus the meaning of conservative varies dramatically by nation. The intersection of these already vague terms is especially suspect). The phrase does not communicate anything unless the reader is bringing to the table some sort of dogmatic, monolithic view of conservative Catholicism. The phrase certainly does not provide any clarity to the reader. If anything, it reads more like it's appealing to anti-Catholic sentiment. And I say this as someone with no ties whatsoever to Catholicism.
The problems may be, in part, inaccurate summations of these sources. Paragraph 3 in the introduction cites the aforementioned source, but says the source claims the anti-gender movement is based in Catholic theology. However, Anti-Gender Campaigns in Europe: Mobilizing Against Equality Wikipedia page indicates the book studies the anti-gender movement both in regions where the Catholic Church is and is not influential (considering, for example, Eastern Orthodox influence). I doubt the source supports the current statement in this article that "The movement derives from Catholic theology" (to be frank, the notion that the entire anti-gender movement is specifically Catholic in origin is bizarre, esp. since this article already notes distinctly non-Catholic actors like TERFs).
I examined these two statements just because they stuck out to me. I didn't check any more, but when three out of three statements had reliability issues, that's not great. My sense of things is that if I continued doing so, I would find more such problems throughout the article. I had started writing up a few more, but this comment is already lengthy. In any case, the sources already present in the article and the way they are summarized by the article need serious reexamination. Jakovnewman (talk) 08:28, 12 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Am I reading this correctly that you haven't actually read the sources you are complaining about? Is that correct?
The quote about conservative Catholics is not from the source you mention but from an entirely different source. That quote is clearly attributed as a direct quote from a Agnieszka Graff. The cited source is freely available online. Graff explains what is meant by conservative Catholics, by, for example, placing "gender ideology" in a lineage with John Paul II's "culture of death" among other things. That some Catholics differ with the Vatican on some issues is mostly irrelevant to Graff's point.
As for the 'Anti-Gender Campaigns in Europe' source, it doesn't appear to have a Wikipedia page, so I have no idea what your comments are referring to. If you have some reason beyond your own WP:OR to say the source isn't reliable, you should present it, but I would recommend actually reading the source, first. For example, that source says in its first paragraph: These campaigns, started in the mid-1990s as a Catholic project in reaction to the results of the UN conferences of Cairo and Bejing, but developed significantly in several European countries after crucial encounters with right-wing populism. (emphasis added, ISBN978-1-78660-001-1) Nothing about this contradicts the notion that Eastern Orthodox activists and TERFs also adopted this rhetoric. Grayfell (talk) 04:25, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The official page is titled Gender-critical feminism.
That page has a reference to the page TERF (acronym) which has the text "Trans-inclusive radical feminist blogger Viv Smythe has been credited with creating and popularizing the term in 2008", thus a term created by opposition rather than self-representation.
On the Gender-critical feminism page there is also the text.. "Claire Thurlow said that since the 2010s, there has been a shift in language from 'TERF' to 'gender critical feminism'" and "gender-critical feminism [as a] self-definition by some individuals and groups labelled TERFs".
On this page there is the text "Anti-gender rhetoric has seen increasing circulation in trans-exclusionary radical feminist (TERF) discourse since 2016", where given that "since the 2010s" "gender-critical feminism" has been around, there seems to be no justification for not prefering/mentioning "gender-critical feminism" here.
I'd expect that an article about a movement should prefer self-identifying labels over labels others put on them. Or at least it should mention both without preferring either. Ybllaw (talk) 12:26, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Because that is what the source says. Also Thurlow also notes they aren't actually quite the same thing and don't use quite the same discourse - thus in this situation even more reason to not reinterpret the source, where it is that very discourse that is at issue.
Thurlow:
I use ‘TERF’ as a representation of what might be called the original trans-exclusionary feminist view, which I outline in the following section, and ‘gender critical’ to represent more contemporary presentations of feminist trans-exclusion. I use ‘trans-exclusionary feminism’ as an umbrella term encompassing both. As will be discussed, the application of these terms is complex and political. They represent positions that are interconnected and often interchangeable, indistinguishable and/or contradictory.
These moves to be perceived as pro-women rather than anti-trans have created fault lines within trans-exclusionary feminism between those preferring the more uncompromising position of the past (the TERF) and those embracing an allegedly more moderate rhetoric (the gender critical).
It's false that Wikipedia always prefers self-chosen labels—for example the article is titled anti-abortion movements rather than pro-life. And even the subject of this exact article doesn't refer to itself as such (anti-gender movement). (t · c) buidhe14:09, 14 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]