Talk:Badar uz Zaman

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This article was accepted on 7 March 2012 by reviewer Sionk (talk · contribs).
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Tag justification[edit]

I added some tags to this article; here's the reasoning behind each:

  • {{BLP sources}}
    It's a BLP, and some of its content is unreferenced.
  • {{citation style}}
    Citations 16 through 23 only reference the name and date of a publication—no article name, no author, no URL, etc. In order to verify this info, someone would have to get the publication and read it in its entirety, searching for the relevant piece. In particular, citation 21 is problematic; The Nation says its online archives go back to 1865, but it doesn't actually appear to have ever mentioned the subject.
  • {{unreliable sources}}
    Citations 5 and 6 are to blogs. Citations 12 and 13 are to classified ads.
  • {{cleanup-link rot}}
    Citations 7, 15, and 27 are bare URLs.
  • {{copy edit}}
    Example: "Still he is working on latest form of music and has been working on his new album."
  • {{peacock}}
    Example: "He contributes to the Pakistan Classical Music by promoting and re-interpreting compositions of sub-continent’s Muslim maestros of yore."
  • {{tone}}
    Example: "Zaman's contributions toward the preservation and promotion of classical music in Pakistan and sole entity representing Kasur Gharana are recognized all over Indo-Pak subcontinent."
  • {{wikify}}
    Examples: book titles should be in italics, <ref> tags should follow punctuation marks without spaces, terms in the sentence "He received music training from Ustad Faiz Ali (Gawaliyar), Ustad Iftikhar Ahmed Khan (Dehli), Ustad Chhotay Ghulam Ali Khan (Qasur) and Ustad Bhai Naseera (Punjab)" should be wikilinked.
  • {{capitalization}}
    An issue throughout, as in sentences like "Ustad Badar uz Zaman started his Music career in 1956 ."

I don't see that any of these overlap; each is a distinct issue that needs fixing. DoriTalkContribs 02:23, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm glad another editor has seen good sense to remove some of the clean-up tags. The object of clean-up tags should be to highlight the most urgent and important problems, not every minor problem too. Over-tagging can be intimidating and unhelpful to new editors. I definitely agree it needs some re-wording and general wikify-ing. I've already asked the author to provide full citations where only partial citations exist so, in my view, it is fair to note those problems. As for the other tags, they're probably nit-picking. Sionk (talk) 19:11, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
I've worked on this article before (as a result of a request for help from, presumably, its original creator), but I must admit I should've checked the talk page before all the tag removals that I made. However, I do agree with Sionk that such a huge list of tags (some of which overlapped) is unhelpful.
In addition, the reasoning provided for the "peacock" tag was a sentence that was backed up by multiple independent reliable sources, and not excessively worded - I had looked this sentence over before when explaining to the author why the article was not initially accepted at Articles for Creation. Regarding BLP, even though it would be far better for all content to be specifically cited, BLPs are permitted to have unreferenced content - just not if it is controversial or likely to be challenged. As regards verifiability, page numbers are preferred of course, but WP:V does allow for the fact that sometimes someone wanting to check a reference will need to obtain the work concerned, sometimes including paying to do so if necessary. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 19:54, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
The problem is that removing the tags without fixing the problems doesn't help the article. For instance:
  • {{BLP sources}} - It is a BLP, right? It does have a {{cn}} tag, right? That's the definition of {{BLP sources}}. But it's really an issue due to the article's {{unreliable sources}}.
  • {{unreliable sources}} - Citations 3 and 5 are still to blogs, and citations 11 and 12 are still to classified ads. Those are not reliable sources by anyone's definition.
  • {{cleanup-link rot}} - Citations 6, 14, and 26 are still to bare URLs. How many bare URLs must an article have to earn this tag?
  • {{peacock}} - Yes, I gave one example above; that doesn't mean it was the only example. Further examples: "renowned Music Director" and "contributions toward the preservation and promotion of classical music in Pakistan and sole entity representing Kasur Gharana are recognized all over Indo-Pak subcontinent."
  • {{tone}} - This one has some overlap with {{copy edit}}, but it's more specific. In short, the article really needs to be worked-over by someone with solid English skills.
If I had been feeling pointy, I could have also added:
And so on… TL;DR: This needs some real work, and simply deleting tags doesn't improve the article. DoriTalkContribs 00:35, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
Right. So are you going to improve the article, or just add tags to it? --Demiurge1000 (talk) 15:00, 11 March 2012 (UTC)