Talk:Benjamin de Rothschild

Drug addiction

Two editors here and here are trying to censor this sourced information which is against Wikipedia rules (see for example WP:Censorship).

According to the Independent (UK):

Despite being groomed for greatness from a young age, as a teenager he [Benjamin de Rothschild] skipped university and instead headed for Los Angeles with dreams of being a film producer. In LA he started taking drugs, and ended up on heroin. Meanwhile, he failed to make it into Hollywood's charmed circle and bombed as a film-maker.

According to the NYPost here:

Also in 1996, Baron Benjamin Rothschild, now 34, was arrested at an airport in England and fined $600 for heroin possession

Moreover, according to Finews:

There is no shortage of similar anecdotes about Benjamin, who reportedly struggled with substance abuse for years. He admitted possession of heroin in 1997 [and briefly detained in Paris in 2007 over an incident with a laser pointer and a police officer]

Cheers! 172.58.239.64 (talk) 10:23, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Firstly, please assume good faith and do not accuse other editors of "censorship" because they challenge information added.

Your addition specifically says "According to police reports and media, Benjamin de Rothschild had known addiction to heroine for many years". None of the sources say this.

• Independent - Taking heroin in LA as a teenager does not verify a known addiction for years.
• NY Post - Being arrested for possession does not verify a known addiction for years.
• Finews - A "reportedly" fact is little better than gossip. The source itself is distancing itself from the claim. Wikipedia does not contain gossip.

Unless you have a source that contains both the below, you cannot add this. Nor can you combine facts to reach your own conclusions.

• The "police reports" that state he had a "known addiction for many years". What police reports say this?
• The media that state he had a "known addiction for many years". "Known" by who? Name who is saying this please. No "reportedly".

Until then, I'll remove this statement. The burden is on you to support what it says.

Otherwise, you might reconsider what it is says to accurately reflect the facts reported in the sources. Thanks. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 15:08, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

This issue seems to be debated right now. Someone removed the whole drug section arguing "WP:NOTSCANDAL (tabloid journalism)", and someone else undid this revision arguing "What about that? (Wikipedia does not censor)". The Clinton-Lewinsky scandal (the "that") is a perfect segue to explain why "Wikipedia does not censor" does not apply here : The Clinton-Lewinsky scandal went beyond tabloid reporting to gain global media coverage. In contrast, Benjamin Rothschild's drug issue is barely sourced, even though an avalanche of articles were published to cover his death. WP:EXCEPTIONAL clearly states : "Any exceptional claim requires multiple high-quality sources". A drug addiction is an exceptional claim for a high-profile personality, unfortunately the sources are scarce and each one barely mentions the exceptional claim (1 short sentence for each source). Lizthorpe (talk) 02:05, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

References

additionally we have in the Daily Mail of London:

Benjamin, whose battle with heroin was well documented...

Response to third opinion request:

Firstly, we have to kick out the New York Post as a source according to WP:RSPSOURCES. However, the other two sources mentioned are reliable and fulfill the requirement for double documentation under WP:EXCEPTIONAL. I understand concerns that neither of these sources specifically say he was "addicted" to heroin, but I challenge anyone to explain what being "on heroin" means if not addicted. The main issue is not with the sources but with the phrasing of the sentence that was added. As mentioned above, the phrasing reached conclusions, rather than stating facts. However, a rewrite can easily solve those concerns. Certainly, the sources would allow something along the lines of: He had substance abuse problems for years, including taking heroin and being arrested for possession of heroin. You don't have to use my text but hopefully get the idea of a solution that will appeal to all. Rublamb (talk) 10:52, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the reply, it helps to get a third opinion.

I removed the Nypost-related stuff, and rewrote something close to the sources : "Benjamin de Rothschild used heroin while studying in Los Angeles (Independent) and struggled with substance abuse (Finews)". Lizthorpe (talk) 21:36, 14 October 2023 (UTC)