Talk:Bonnie Tyler/Archive 1

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Topics from 2006

Sales figures

Please add links to the sales claims and chart positions - I feel these are greatly inflated and find comments such as it was ' a big hit in europe' to mean in actual fact it charted and sold very badly. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.129.194.143 (talk • contribs) 01:08, 5 September 2006.

IM SUPRISED FANS OF BONNIE TYLER DON'T WISH TO BACK UP THEIR CLAIMS WHEN CHALLENGED???? COULD IT BE THAT THESE 'FACTS' ARE INDEED ANYTHING BUT, PLEASE BE AWARE THAT ANY REQUESTS FOR SOURCES TO BACK UP CLAIMS WHICH ARE DELETED CAN THEN BE REMOVED BY ANYONE AT ANYTIME —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.136.20.161 (talk • contribs) 19:40, 2 September 2006.
This entry is awful. Who wrote it, Bonnie or her manager? It reads like a hyped-up bio. The fact is this lady's career has been stalled for quite some time.


Yes, I don't believe the 80 million records sales figure AT ALL. It is truly ridiculous, and since nobody has proven this by supplying a reliable and neutral source, then I have deleted the information. I know Bonnie had huge success with her "Faster" album and "Total Eclipse", but she has only had a handful of hits and there is no way that her sales can total 80 million. In the UK she has only been certified by the BPI as selling 1.2 million records (awarded for 1 million singles sales and 120,000 album sales). This figure wont include her minor hit records that didnt sell enough to be "certified", but they obviously wouldnt add much more to her total UK sales figure. I know she had some success in the US in the 80s, but that was relatively brief, and her success in Europe seems to be varied at best. I think 8 or 18 million is a closer estimate to her total worldwide sales, so somebody has obviously misheard it as 80 and reported it that way. Please note that local newspaper stories are not reputable sources for worldwide record sales figures and must be backed up with something more substantial.Kookoo Star 16:06, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
Oh good grief, 80 million is an OUTRAGEOUS figure! There is simply no way that she could have sold that many records worldwide. I can believe 18, not 80, and even that would be pushing it. Like the above editor stated, it was probably misheard and then misquoted in the Ulster Newspaper (which is not a valid source since they don't have anything to do with the record industry or Bonnie Tyler herself). Until we can find a VALID and REPUTABLE source for her sales information, it is better that we leave this off the main page.MassassiUK 17:29, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Ill Email her website and get the correct # ok —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuckertough (talk • contribs) 02:53, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Well e-mailing her website wont actually provide any "usable" information as claims about sales figures and such need to come from an impartial, certified source and a link to the information needs to be provided. Her management (or whoever runs her website) could still exaggerate the figures and nobody would be any the wiser. I think sales figures are best left off the main page. It's enough just to say how many hit singles/albums she had (and any gold/platiumn awards she earned for them).79.73.34.75 21:20, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes, i agree with you, unless we have this information in written form, from a reliable source, i think we should just leave it off the main page. IM kinda curious to know if you guys are Bonnie Tyler fans, because you seem to be very harsh against her. Saying things like her career is stalled, and not being supportive towards her at all. So may i ask are you guys Bonnie Tyler's fans, and if not why are you even posting about this information?

I dont mean to be rude, im just kinda curious, being a fan myself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuckertough (talk • contribs) 03:36, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

It's not really about whether we are fans of Bonnie or not, it's more about keeping Wikipedia accurate. Personally, I've always liked Bonnie and have several of her records. However, not for one moment do I think that she has sold anywhere near 80 million records. To even suggest such a thing devalues the whole article and makes it seem false and hyped-up. Not even Oasis or Robbie Williams have sold 80 million records (yet) and they have been far more successful around the world than Bonnie Tyler has (which just goes to show there is no accounting for taste). Wikipedia has to be a source of accurate information, not a Bonnie Tyler fan page.Kookoo Star 21:34, 15 September 2007 (UTC)
Good point, i agree with you 100%. And yes 80 million is way to many, but i would just like to point out, even 60 million would be a better guess than 80, now i know 60 is probably a lot to you guys but, seeing Reba McEntire has been able to sell that many and she has been around as many years as Bonnie has. So, yes, we willleave this info off the front page, but i would stll like to give Bonnie some credit, and say her total sales are probably between 10 and 60 million. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuckertough (talk • contribs) 03:55, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Yes but Reba McEntire has been HUGELY successful in the US, which is the largest record market in the world. She has released around 30 albums during her career since the mid 1970s and over 20 of them have achieved platinum or multi-platinum status in the US (her Greatest Hits Vol.2 went FIVE x platinum) so its not hard to see how she has sold 60 million records in total. Bonnie has only had one hit album in the US, and that was almost 25 years ago in 1983 where as Reba's most recent platinum album was in 2005. It has nothing to do with how long an artist has been recording, it has to do with how successful they are and how long they maintain that success. It's like comparing Madonna to Cyndi Lauper - they both started out at the same time and at first were both successful, but Madonna has maintained her career where as Cyndi hasn't had a big hit for years now. There's a big difference. I would estimate Bonnie Tyler's global sales to be somewhere between 10 and 20 million - which is still a respectable figure - but apart from the recent french language version of "Total Eclipse" with Kareen Anton, she just hasn't been able to replicate the kind of success that she had in the mid 1980s.Kookoo Star 19:56, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
Ok i emaled both billboard and Bonnies website , and i got a much more believable # than 80 million. They both said Bonnie has sold around 30 million worldwide, now isnt that way more believable than 80 million. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuckertough (talk • contribs) 20:29, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
It's far more believable than 80m, but I would even have a hard time believing 30m to be honest. As I mentioned earlier, her website are not an impartial source, and Billboard don't actually track worldwide sales figures as they are just an organisation that deals with the U.S. charts (the RIAA are the organisation that tracks sales in the US, but they only track for there and not worldwide). Again though, this isn't information that can be used on the main article page because it isn't verifiable. Just between us all though, let's just acknowledge that Bonnie Tyler has sold a decent number of records during her career and she's still making them. Kookoo Star 20:45, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

agreed, we will leave it at that. She has sold quite a few records, enough to make her a hugely successful recording artist, and i sure hope she continues to do so for a long time! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuckertough (talk • contribs) 20:11, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Statistics breakdown June 2013

I have been researching into this a bit. I've copied a template from the article "List of best-selling music artists " and have been adding all the statistics up. On that list, artists have a statistic that someone has claimed they've sold. For example, Meat Loaf is on 80 million, and then they have a column that adds up all the info available to give an accurate statistic based on certifications from certain countries. For quite a few, the statistics make up half of what they claim to have sold, though you'll notice for most countries they have sold a heck of a lot more than the statistics I've come up with for Bonnie. I'm no going to copy the table over, it'll just look messy. BUT I will add them all in bullet points.

  • Total sales I've added up so far: 9.11 million (worldwide)
    • US: 3.5 million
      • Albums: It's a Heartache (Gold) (1978) - 500,000 copies sold. Faster Than The Speed Of Night (Platinum) (1983) - 1,000,000 copies sold.
      • Singles: "It's a Heartache" (Gold) (1978) - 1,000,000 copies sold. "Total Eclipse of the Heart" (Platinum) (certified in 2001) - 1,000,000 copies sold.
    • UK: 1.09 million
      • Albums: Faster Than the Speed of Night (Silver) (1983) - 60,000 copies sold. Heaven & Hell (Platinum) (certified in 2013) - 300,000 copies sold. Greatest Hits (Silver) (2001) - 60,000 copies sold.
      • Singles: "Lost In France" (Silver) (1976) - 200,000 copies sold. "It's a Heartache" (Gold) (1978) - 500,000 copies sold. "Total Eclipse of the Heart" (Gold) (1983) - 400,000 copies sold. "Holding Out For a Hero" (Silver) (1985) - 200,000 copies sold.
    • Germany: 600,000
      • Albums: The Hits of Bonnie Tyler (Gold) (1978) - 100,000 copies sold. Bitterblue (Gold) (1992) - 100,000 copies sold. The Very Best Of Bonnie Tyler (Platinum) (1993) - 200,000 copies sold. Angel Heart (Gold) (1993) - 100,000 copies sold. Here Am I (Gold) (1995) - 100,000 copies sold.
    • Canada: 315,000
      • Albums: It's a Heartache (Platinum) (1978) - 100,000 copies sold. Faster Than the Speed of Night (Double Platinum) (certified in 1984) - 200,000 copies sold.
      • Singles: "It's a Heartache" (Gold) (1978) - 75,000 units sold. "Total Eclipse of the Heart" (Platinum) (certified in 1984) - 10,000 copies sold.
    • Sweden: 40,000
      • Albums: Bitterblue (Gold) (1992) - 20,000 copies sold. Greatest Hits (Gold) (2001) - 20,000 copies sold.
    • Switzerland: 65,000
      • Albums: Angel Heart (Gold) (1992) - 10,000 copies sold. Bitterblue (Gold) (1992) - 10,000 copies sold. Greatest Hits (Gold) (1992) - 10,000 copies sold. The Very Best of Bonnie Tyler (Platinum) (1993) - 20,000 copies sold.
      • Singles: "Si demain... (Turn Around)" (Gold) (2004) - 15,000 copies sold.
    • Austria: 30,000
      • Albums: Bitterblue (Platinum) (1992) - 15,000 copies sold. Greatest Hits (Gold) (1992) - 7,500 copies sold. Angel Heart (Gold) (1993) - 7,500 copies sold.
    • Finland: 74,523 (their statistics are VERY accurate)
    • Ireland: 15,000
    • France: 2.1 million
      • Albums: (Source for this: http://www.infodisc.fr/CD_Certif.php)
        • Faster Than the Speed of Night (Gold) (1983) - 100,000 copies sold. Secret Dreams and Forbidden Fire (Gold) (1986) - 100,000 copies sold. Best Of (uncertain, possibly Double Gold) (1994) - 200,000 copies sold. The Best (Platinum) (1997) - 300,000 copies sold.
      • Singles: "It's a Heartache" (Platinum) (1978) - 1,107,000 copies sold. "Total Eclipse of the Heart" (Platinum) (1983) - 150,000 copies sold. "Si demain... (Turn Around)" (Platinum) (2004) - 150,000 copies sold.
    • Belgium: 30,000
      • Singles: "Si demain... (Turn Around)" (Platinum) (2004) - 20,000 copies sold. "Si tout S'arrete (It's a Heartache)" (Gold) (2004) - 10,000 copies sold.
    • Italy
      • Singles: "Total Eclipse of the Heart" (Gold) (1983) - 15,000 copies sold.

Please be aware that I will keep updating these statistics until I have all available statistics. Some of these statistics are album only.

If you visit the list of music recording certifications, you will find that both "It's a Heartache" and "Total Eclipse of the Heart" have sold 6 million units each.

Obviously the statistics are only general based on Gold and Platinum (or Double Platinum) discs they've received. Being familiar with Bonnie's discography, I know that her greatest career success has been in Norway, she's had so many hits there, both albums and singles. The trouble is that for Norway, and other countries such as Venezuela, South Africa, etc, Bonnie's also broken the charts there and had a lot of success, but there's currently no sources for Norway, and not even a hit singles archive for Venezuela or South Africa.

In addition, for countries such as Ireland, they've only been collecting data as far back as... 1999 I believe, but they've been giving music certifications since the 70s. So there may well be more data that's not been collected yet. I'll keep hunting though, so we can get as near a complete list of sales figures as possible. Though it still stands that.. at least at the moment... 80 million is too high to be a reliable approximate figure. Furthermore, if you go to the Eurovision Song Contest website, they have a small biography on there where they say she's sold around 20 million records worldwide. Hopefully more data will come through soon. Bonnietylersave 15:32, 1 June 2013 (UTC)

Oh and by the way, if you think this is bad, take a look at the FEATURED ARTICLE on the Hungarian page! [1] I have no idea how that's managed to get to FA status with information like this... it claims that she's sold over 100 million records in her career! And blows her European hit compilations The Very Best of Bonnie Tyler: Volume 1 and The Very Best of Bonnie Tyler: Volume 2 WAY bigger than they were. They were big hits but didn't sell... I believe I read somewhere "30 million records". I'm investigating into some of the statistics, such as where it says Si demain... (Turn Around) sold 2 million copies. It was number 1 for 10 weeks so I wouldn't be too surprised, but I sure hope someone sorts out that article. For a featured article, it's a bit messy. Bonnietylersave 15:55, 1 June 2013 (UTC)
Sorry it looks like I'm talking to myself here, but I went onto the Si demain... (Turn Around) page and have found it sold 500,000 copies in France and 50,000 in Belgium. So 2 million? I think not. "Kareen Antonn affirmed that the single, then still ranked on the French Singles Chart, had exceeded the 700,000 sold copies" (copied from the Si demain... (Turn Around) article), but we have to stick to reliable archives. Bonnietylersave 16:02, 1 June 2013 (UTC)


In Germany GOLD = 250,000 and PLATINUM =500,000 sold copies until 2002

their records had been certified before 2002 and so 100,000 for gold is not right but


SINGLE 500,000 ALBUM 500,000 = PLATINUM

single 250,000 album 250,000 =GOLD

they changed the rules in 2002 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.247.247.252 (talk) 22:05, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Birth Name / Date

TampaPauly 03:38, 29 Jan 2004 (UTC): There is some dispute as to Bonnie's birthdate. I've seen June 8, 1951 as well as June 8, 1953. And, her real name is Gaynor Hopkins, as she took the nom-de-plume because of another UK singer of the time, Mary Hopkin.

I agree totally; my extensive research concludes that she was born in 1951, not 1953, and that her real surname is / was Hopkins. Can anyone prove us both wrong ?!

Derek R Bullamore 02:32, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

For contemporary confirmation, Tyler was definitely born in 1951, as most sources state. I expect that some reporters may have copied information from this Wikipedia page when writing articles about her, with the birth date being incorrect. Bonnietylersave 11:52, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Discography

This is in danger of completely overshadowing the main text / gist of the article. Is it all necessary ?!

Derek R Bullamore 20:04, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

There seems to be a major discrepancy between this statement - "Her success with "Lost in France" led Tyler to record her first album in 1977. Titled The World Starts Tonight, it met with only modest success, but Bonnie claims it did well enough that she could tour throughout Europe."

and this -

"Her next album, Faster Than the Speed of Night, proved to be a hit, and the single "Total Eclipse of the Heart", written by Jim Steinman, reached U.S. #1 for 4 weeks. "Faster Than the Speed of Night" peaked on the UK album charts at No.1, making Bonnie the first ever female artist of only three female solo singers to debut at no 1 with her first album, earning a Guinness Record, followed for Annie Lennox and Natasha Bedingfield." after all, Ms Tyler clearly didn't debut at no 1 with her first album given that she had already released "The World Starts Tonight".

I've addressed this issue (see "First Female Album..." below).Kookoo Star 16:06, 18 August 2007 (UTC)


sexuality

Isn’t she a Lesbian?


Could someone add something about her sexuality?

No, she is not a lesbian. She is married to a successful businessman.

Bonnie being bisexual or gay has been a long standing rumor, so has the claims from Dieter Bohlen that she's an alcoholic...the jury's still out on both, doesn't appear likely unless anything new comes to light. TampaPauly 00:52, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

It is inappropriate to comment on her sexuality unless it becomes absolutely clear, and only then when her sexuality is relevant to her public persona in some way. Wiki isnt the place for gossip and rumours I'm afraid. Kookoo Star 16:06, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Shes been married to her husband, for what 30 odd years, sges not a lesbian!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuckertough (talk • contribs) 02:55, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Article needs work

I added a cleanup tag to this article because it isn't properly sourced with references, is poorly written, and is full of grammatical errors. Infamous30 00:43, 19 December 2006 (UTC) Yes i agree, i think it could be a lot longer as well, for such a career, i thiknk she deserves better. Also whats with that Discography, its a mess! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuckertough (talk • contribs) 02:16, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Topics from 2007

Clean up

I've cleaned the article up as it was a total mess. I've tried to include all of the relevant information from all previous versions of the article, whilst removing some of the superfluous or poorly written stuff. If somebody has the time to add a few valid sources and citations, please do so. Can we all make an effort to try to keep the article like an encyclopedia entry and not like a Bonnie Tyler fan page please. Thanks. MassassiUK 18:48, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

Welsh Rich List

The Skewen-born singer is currently ranked the 49th richest person in Wales with a personal fortune of £25m thanks to her record sales and property. ref: [2] Robin Turner, Western Mail - Feb. 16th 2007 - Culnacréann 00:05, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

Discography Cleanup

Her discography needs to be cleaned up badly! It's too confussing and hard to read. Is it necessary to list all the compilations that have been released about her? We should go off what's listed on her OFFICIAL WEBSITE.

It's A Heartache

What type of music is "It's a Heartache". Is it pop? disco? light rock? ballad? It's hard to categorize it....

It's a country song that crossed over to the pop charts.


I know what you mean; it has some ballad-like qualities, but ultimately the tempo and instrumentation probably put it in "pop" territory. Hassocks5489 19:47, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Whoever keep deleting the info about "It's A Heartache" being a cover of a Juice Newton song needs to quit. It is a FACT. Bonnie Tyler was not the original artist to release the song. Yes, she had the biggest hit with it, but geez. She's covered lots of artists! And there is no shame in that. Hell, I have an entire album of Tyler doing covers!

And what an album that is,lol yes i agree with you, that is good information to have here, Yes bonnie had a big hit with it, but other people did release it before her. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuckertough (talk • contribs) 20:45, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Juice Newton was the only artist to release "It's A Heartache" before Bonnie Tyler. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 159.142.232.104 (talk) 14:57, 13 September 2007 (UTC) Oh ok thanks you for clearing that up —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuckertough (talk • contribs) 20:01, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Apparently, Juice Newton's version was released first (in the US anyway) but Newton didn't actually write the song so we shouldn't refer to Tyler's version as a "cover of the Juice Newton song". It was written by Ronnie Scott and Steve Wolfe.79.65.90.84 16:36, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Juice Newton charted a single for "It's A Heartache" before Bonnie Tyler even released hers, so I think it's fair to say that it was originally a Juice Newton song, even if she did not write it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.78.163.54 (talk) 18:23, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

TRIVIA: I own the foreign-issue LP of Juice Newton's 1977 album "Come to Me" and the opening track is "It's a Heartache". So, yes, Newton released the song in 1977, before Bonnie Tyler did in 1978. Only after the song was a hit in Mexico did Newton release it in the USA. But Tyler's was released pretty much at the same time and swiped the airplay from Newton's version. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.78.163.59 (talk) 20:14, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Tyler's version was released in 1977 in the UK, so she could well have recorded it before or at the same time as Newton recorded hers. 80.43.190.96 (talk) 16:29, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

First Female Album to Enter at no.1

Tyler was NOT the first female artist (British or otherwise) to have a no.1 album nor was she the first to have an album enter the chart at no.1 - that honour belongs to Kate Bush in 1980. Tyler was never listed in the Guinness Book of Records. Please stop adding this back because it is factually inaccaurate. Kookoo Star 15:38, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

ok, clear this up for me, we seem to keep refering to Bonnie as british , when she is actually welsh. Ok kate bush is british and was hte first british lady singer to do this. But Bonnie is welsh, so am i wrong but isnt bonnie the first WELSH lady singer to do this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuckertough (talk • contribs) 20:14, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Great Britain is the island that makes up England, Scotland and Wales, so to be deemed as "British", you have to originate from there. Both Kate Bush and Bonnie Tyler are British. To say somebody is english, scottish or welsh, is really just specifying which part of Great Britain they are from. It's almost like saying somebody is from California, Texas, or Alaska in the USA - different regional accents, they can make their own state laws, but are still part of a wider nation (although Scotland are making rumblings about "going it alone" recently).Kookoo Star 21:28, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
icic, well you learn something new everyday!haha —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tuckertough (talk • contribs) 00:02, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Actually, Kate Bush's "Never For Ever" did enter the album chart at no.1 in September 1980. See www.chartstats.com for details.89.168.64.31 (talk) 18:16, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

This is a list of the first 20 albums by female artists that entered the UK album chart at no.1 (regardless of nationality):

  • Kate Bush - Never For Ever (1980)
  • Bonnie Tyler - Faster Than The Speed Of Night (1983)
  • Kate Bush - Hounds Of Love (1985)
  • Sade - Promise (1985)
  • Madonna - True Blue (1986)
  • Whitney Houston - Whitney (1987)
  • Madonna - Like A Prayer (1989)
  • Gloria Estefan - Cuts Both Ways (1989)
  • Tina Turner - Foreign Affair (1989)
  • Tracy Chapman - Crossroads (1989)
  • Kylie Minogue - Enjoy Yourself (1989)
  • Sinead O'Connor - I Do Not Want What I Have Not Got (1990)
  • Madonna - The Immaculate Collection (1990)
  • Oleta Adams - Circle Of One (re-release only) (1991)
  • Cher - Love Hurts (1991)
  • Enya - Shepherd Moons (1991)
  • Annie Lennox - Diva (1992) (DEBUT ALBUM)
  • Kylie Minogue - Greatest Hits (1992)
  • Belinda Carlisle - The Best Of Belinda, Vol 1 (1992)
  • Cher - Greatest Hits 1965-92 (1992)

Both Barbra Streisand and Connie Francis had no.1 albums prior to Kate Bush, but they did not enter the chart at no.1 and are therefore not included. Kookoo Star (talk) 15:48, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

New evidence though... Bonnie was listed in The Virgin Book of British Hit Singles,+ 3 Guinness World Records: British Hit Singles and Albums. [3] - and there's a shot of page 165 where she is listed. [4] Does this change anything? It's definitely confusing. Bonnietylersave (talk) 11:44, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

Update: specifics

I have had a conversation with another Bonnie Tyler fan who has helped to make this issue clearer; the Guinness Book of Records cite Bonnie as the first artist to DEBUT at number one in the UK Albums Chart. Not just the album, her first ***EVER*** album to chart in the UK. Kate Bush had three previous albums that charted in the UK before Never for Ever. So the listing in the British Hit Singles and Albums book has some validity. Is there anything we can do with this? I don't know how to phrase it... Bonnietylersave (talk) 19:30, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

@Bonnietylersave: - Hi! How about something like this:
In 2004, Guinness World Records published British Hit Singles and Albums, which claimed that Tyler was the first British female to debut at number one in the UK Albums Chart with Faster Than the Speed of Night in 1983.[1] This caused some confusion, since Kate Bush’s album, Never for Ever had debuted in the Number One position in 1980. [2] However, Tyler’s record was that she was the first female British artist to debut at Number One with her first album, Bush had several prior albums released prior to Never for Ever.
That's perfect!! Thank you Bonnietylersave (talk) 17:12, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
Sorry but this is inadmissable and has long since been proven incorrect. Faster was not Tyler's first album, it was her fifth. It is irrelevant if her first four albums reached the UK Top 40 or Top 75, the fact is they were still released. Guinness World Records have often been known to make errors due to poor research, and trying to redefine the meaning of their error to give it some validity is a textbook example of weasel wording. 88.104.1.44 (talk) 13:30, 25 June 2015 (UTC)

Topics from 2010

Welsh?

This essay explains that nationality of the people the United Kingdom on Wikipedia should be dictated depending on the way the artist identifies themself, and uniformity should not be enforced. I fear that this article has become subject to the uniformity of identifying singers from Wales as Welsh, and I cannot find any distinctive source that suggests Tyler considers herself to be Welsh rather than British. As such, I've adjusted the opening statement until/unless valid consensus can be reached and sources can be discovered that indicate Tyler regards herself as Welsh instead of British. TheStigt·c 23:36, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Tried to add a citation that was needed

I tried to add a citation that was needed but couldn't figure out the syntax and formatting. It's specifically the citation for "The 2010s: In 2010, Tyler appeared in a television advertisement for MasterCard called "Neville," singing a parody of "Total Eclipse of the Heart."[citation needed] She later joined Robin Gibb briefly in his Australian tour before performing in her own Australian concerts." The citation is a video of the actual Mastercard commercial in question on YouTube at watch?v=WFClOBn7Vms — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.252.140.6 (talk) 08:34, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Topics from 2011

Date of image?

The image in the info box is captioned "Tyler in 2010". But this image () seems to be a crop from which according to its description and the Si_demain..._(Turn_Around) article dates from 2005.

Threefoursixninefour (talk) 07:48, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

I'll look into this. It looks to be from one of the promotional performances that Antonn and Tyler participated in around the early/middle 00s. It may be that the "2010" refers to the upload date or publication date on the web rather than its original date.

Bonnietylersave (talk) 00:03, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

Topics from 2012

Constant page 'vandalism'

I have recently noticed several visitors of Wikipedia attempting to remove the 'Personal life' section of this page. If anyone can explain why or if anyone can assist with preventing this, please let me know! I've seen several Bots reverting the edits, but is has been happening for several days now. I will consider protecting the page temporarily.

Many thanks.

Bonnietylersave (talk) 21:45, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

The "personal life" section had often contained a lot of "fancruft" type information that is either poorly sourced or completely unsourced, and not always particularly relevant. The bit about how much money she allegedly has should certainly not be in there. Bots often revert good faith edits by mistake, but no admin would protect this article because people are removing poorly sourced details. 88.104.17.55 (talk) 23:58, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Separate Awards Article

I can remember that some time back, Tyler had a separate article for her received awards... since then, it's been deleted and the awards moved onto this article, probably due to poor quality and layout, which I have been working on since then. My concern is that she has received a lot of awards through her career, and once that section has been properly laid out, it's going to take up a huge chunk of article space that could make it look messy.

I don't want to make an article for this unless I get some agreement on it, because it could be a wasted job. I do, however, think that some of the major awards, like the Grammy's, Brits and Goldene Europa awards (her most significant) should have a copy left on the article followed by a link to a separate article page, just to set a brief overview.

Thanks! Liam (talk) 11:27, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Topics from 2013

Who was the first author?

It's a little bit funny, but it seems, that fameball uses this wiki article and take over the birth name of Bonnie. Someone here has later referenced to the fameball articel (and the birth name, ref number one). So it seems its a reference of wiki article self?!? Sorry for bad English, hope everybody will understand? --Kettentaucher (talk) 10:31, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Fameball is basically a website that copies information from Wikipedia. What someone's gone and done is written something on Wikipedia without a source, Fameball has copied this information and then they used Fameball as a source. I've deleted it anyway, trying my best to get rid of all poor citations. Won't be long till it's clear of them completely! :) Bonnietylersave (talk) 14:32, 14 May 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.98.212.55 (talk)

Soviet Union

"became the first western artist to tour the Soviet Union" is wrong, even though it is stated in the source. Lots got there decades before: Benny Goodman in Moscow illustrates one example. EddieHugh (talk) 22:33, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, yeah I agree. Just read an article stating that Elton John toured the Soviet Union back in the 70s as well. I've removed the line of text that claimed that Tyler did first. Liam (talk) 00:02, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

GA list of improvements

I am listing all improvements that were listed when the recent GA nomination failed. Beside will be a note that states whether the problem has been addressed.

  • Segments of text with no sources
  • Sub-standard sources, such as fan sites (Improvement in progress) Issue: there have been no reference links to fan sites in years
  • Poor cite formatting (Improvement in progress)
  • Content is missing descriptions of her art and coverage of the critical reaction to her
  • Song titles and album titles have wrong formatting (Improvement done)
  • At least one of the images looks like it might be a copyright violation (Improvement done, deleted "BONNIE4.jpg" from Commons)

Help in improving this article is wholeheartedly welcomed! Bonnietylersave (talk) 14:30, 14 May 2013 (UTC)

B-class review

For WP:BIO. Failed due to numerous places where inline citations are missing. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 11:42, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

Eurovision 1983

The Digital Spy source states that Tyler was "asked to represent the United Kingdom" at Eurovision 1983. This seems highly unlikely, as the United Kingdom entry was selected by an open competition that year. She may have been asked to sing an entry in the United Kingdom's national selection, but there is no way that, at the time, she could have been asked to represent the United Kingdom unless she had won the national selection through the public vote. Skinsmoke (talk) 12:20, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Actually Bonnie Tyler mentioned this fact herself in an interview for the BBC, if you watch this youtube clip at 01:23 onwards, Bonnie talks about being asked to represent the UK in 1983. Wesley ☮ Mouse 13:18, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
Tyler has also mentioned that in several radio interviews, in France for example. See: [5] "I have nothing to prove, but the BBC asked me in 1983 would I do Eurovison, but I said no then, I was #1 in America, I was too busy." Bonnietylersave (talk) 14:21, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
Even if this is true - which it may be given that her career was making a massive comeback all over Europe in 83 - if she was asked in 83, then it would have been for the 84 Eurovision.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 09:48, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Translating Hungarian article

The Hungarian article doesn't have much content that's not already written on the English one, and tends to waffle on about her discography and awards without talking about her change in style or art. Plus, things like Bonnie being the first artist to tour the Soviet Union has been disproved already, and there's similar factual issues that haven't been addressed on that page... I don't think the translation notice thing is necessary. Align12Times (talk) 12:57, 19 July 2013 (UTC)

I've had a quick scan of the Hungarian article and yeah I actually think you're right. I added the template based on the fact that it was a FA, but it definitely wouldn't qualify as a FA on the English version. When I had the article nominated as a GA one of the things they said was "it's just an annotated discography with no coverage of her art or critical reaction." To be honest I think the Hungarian one's just the same; they haven't addressed the issues of Bonnie NOT being the first artist to tour the Soviet Union, the record sales are inflated and (from a scan after a machine translation) I don't believe mentions critical reaction or musical style once. There's not actually much on there that hasn't been said on this article, I'll take down the template. Sorry I didn't think to read it properly first! Bonnietylersave (talk) 23:05, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

"More Than a Lover" banned from TV

I have read two sources that contradict each other. The 2003 CD "The Very Best of Bonnie Tyler" (Union Square Music) and "The World Starts Tonight" (2009 re-release by Cherry Red Records) both refer to different TV networks as to which banned the song from being played on TV. The 2003 CD says the BBC, while the 2009 CD says it was ITV (Muriel Young, producer for ITV) that banned it. Thoughts? Bonnietylersave (talk) 14:28, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

I've had a second opinion on this, and there are more sources claiming it to be the BBC that banned it - as you would expect! Bonnietylersave (talk) 12:37, 26 August 2013 (UTC)

Old biography from the official website

In conjunction with the release of Rocks and Honey and her participation in the Eurovision Song Contest 2013, Tyler's website was completely re-designed and re-launched, and a lot of content from the old site was lost. You can't access the old website via robots, and so the biography has been lost. It's been saved on this link - [6] - I know that the fan site is not a reliable source but does this mean that I must try to find other sources of information and remove all content that was written inspired by the Stephen Bowen Lawrence biography? Bonnietylersave (talk) 15:08, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

GA Review

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Reviewer: Wasted Time R (talk · contribs) 02:07, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

I am quick failing this nomination. The article is not close to being GA status. There are segments of text with no sources, and those sources that are present are often substandard, such as non-WP:RS fan sites and the like. Cite formatting is similarly poor. The content of the article is basically one long annotated discography, with no real descriptions of her art or coverage of the critical reaction to her. The article has numerous violations of the WP:MOS, including dozens of cases where song titles and album titles have wrong formatting. At least one of the images looks like it might be a copyright violation. The nominator has all of five career edits; I think some socking may be going on here, but even if not, the nominator clearly is not familiar with the FA/GA guidelines. Wasted Time R (talk) 02:07, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

Looking at the history a bit more, I see that the original GA nomination was on April 11‎ by Bonnietylersave, who has been around since 2011 and is in fact the top contributor to the article. Then on May 5, Align12Times, the editor with five career editors, changed the nomination from GA to FA, and then a day later, after GrahamColm rejected the FA nomination, changed it back to GA. So the original GA nomination may have been done in good faith. Nevertheless, the problems with the article are as I stated them, and the GA still fails. Wasted Time R (talk) 11:03, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

GA Review

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Reviewer: Ritchie333 (talk · contribs) 12:41, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

This has been in the queue for ages, so it's about time somebody gave it a go. I don't know why I thought Bonnie Tyler was American and used her real name, but both of those misconceptions have been demolished through a quick look at this article, so I'm hoping to learn more.

I see this is the second trip to GA. I can see numerous edits and improvements since the article since then, so I'm not going to quickfail it for the same reasons as previously.

Lead

  • The lead could do with a small bit of reorganisation. I would keep the first sentence as it, but for the rest of the paragraph I would put a very brief overview of what she is best known for ie: major hit singles and albums and sales figures. Then start the biographical details on the next paragraph. The last sentence in the entire lead ie: "Tyler has been referred to as the 'International First Lady of Rock',[7][8] and two of her songs are among the best-selling singles of all time." would be appropriate to put up-front at this position.
  • "She was born in Skewen, Wales". I'm not sure we need "Wales" as the opening sentence tells us she's Welsh. I think for the lead, just put "Skewen" with link, and let the body expand on where that is. Things are slightly complicated in that West Glamorgan didn't exist in 1951, so it's not factually accurate to say that. In fact, now that what used to be Glamorgan is now depicted as individual councils (in this case Neath Port Talbot), it might simply be better to say "Skewen, near Neath". (See, for example, Phil Lynott where the infobox changes between "Staffordshire" (correct as of his date of birth) to "West Midlands" (correct today) from time to time).
  • "Her distinctive husky voice, which is a result of an operation to remove vocal nodules, has had her compared to artists such as Rod Stewart and Kim Carnes." - this is slightly disjointed. How about "Tyler has a distinctive husky voice, resulting from an operation to remove vocal nodules in the mid-1970s. Her singing has been compared to Rod Stewart and Kim Carnes."

I'll add comments on the body later. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:41, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Early life

  • "Gaynor Hopkins was born in Skewen, Wales on 8 June 1951" - the date and place of birth is not in the source given. According to this Irish Times source, she was born in the Mumbles, some distance away.
  • The next two sentences are cited to a Daily Mail piece, but I can't obviously see where the claims for her parents' background are in that article, which is rather gossipy in nature and not a particularly good source
  • "and there was always music on in the house." - when citing a radio piece, it is useful to add the specific time that the quotation appears. Same issue for the next source, also a radio interview
  • What makes this youtube video a reliable source
  • "In April 1969, when she was aged 17" - suggest "In April 1969, aged 17"
  • "Hopkins's aunt" - I think the convention here is to "Hopkins' aunt"
  • "finishing in second place (losing to an accordionist), and won £1" - again, audio interview needs a time to make verification easier
  • "Two years later," - is that two years after the local talent contest or after auditioning for Bobby Wayne & The Dixies
  • "(not related to the 1980s British dance band of the same name)" - this might sit better as a footnote
  • "It was then that she decided to adopt the stage name of "Sherene Davis" - the source says "Shereen Davis".
  • "She quoted Mickie Most as saying" - do you mean this is what Most said or what she thought he said
  • "and months later" - this is a bit too colloquial, suggest "a few months later"

Career

  • "which did not garner any chart success" - I don't think "garner" is the best word to use here
  • "The single did not find immediate chart success" - suggest "The single did not chart immediately"
  • "remaining in the top of the charts for ten weeks" - this needs rewording, "top of the charts" implies it hit number one
  • "She was voted sixth in Record Mirror's "Brightest Hope for '77'" category, leading to the release of her debut album, The World Starts Tonight, in 1977" - I don't think the Record Mirror's opinion would have directly led to the album being released?
  • "With the lead single" ... "a second single" - it would be better to mention these by name
  • "The World Starts Tonight was viewed as being" - make it clear that this is AllMusic's Tomas Mureika's opinion
  • "which made Bonnie Tyler an international star." - per WP:LASTNAME this should simply be "Tyler", and a "star" in whose opinion?
  • "Her vocals were instantly compared to Rod Stewart's" - compared by whom?
  • "With those two singles Tyler held the third and fourth spot in the Norwegian singles chart for a week in 1978." - is this important to mention here? A lot of this paragraph reads "Tyler's next single was 'x', it reached 'a' and 'b' in the charts here, 'c' and 'd' in the charts there, then her next single was 'y', it reached ...." A lot of this prose would better represented as a list at the bottom of the article, as a bland list of releases and chart positions detracts from trying to find out background information about them
  • "with no success in the US," .... "and number 42 in the US Country charts" - these two claims, a sentence apart contradict each other
  • "the album only saw mediocre success in Europe" - but the next sentence says it hit the top 20
  • "The single "My Guns Are Loaded" peaked at ... " - the rest of this sentence is unsourced
  • "Of all four of Tyler's albums with Scott and Wolfe's involvement, this album received the most positive review" - I'm confused, just a minute ago we were told that Record Mirror hated it!
  • "a more upbeat collection of songs compared to her previous album" - in whose opinion?
  • "Phil Hendricks from Cherry Records said that Tyler" - why is this quotation relevant here?
  • "Tyler released four albums for RCA Records from 1977 to 1981" - this is repetition, we've just been told this
  • ""I didn't even like it as I was recording it," Tyler told People magazine" - Per this RfC, consensus is that People can be used a source but with caution. I would strongly recommend finding another source if you can, or removing this
  • "She signed with Columbia Records in 1982 " - I can't find that claim in the People source given
  • "Meat Loaf later claimed the song was originally written for him, but that Epic Records refused to pay Steinman's copyright fee" - the Herald Sun is a tabloid and therefore cannot be used in a BLP
  • "reaching No. 1 in the UK and Norway." - this is the third time I've seen Norway mentioned here. Is there any particular reason we're paying attention to this country in this article?
  • "Her comeback on the US chart was at a time .... " - this sentence is talking about the "second British invasion" of the early 1980s and I feel is irrelevant for this article
  • "In addition, the BBC requested that Tyler represent the United Kingdom at the 1983 Eurovision Song Contest, though she turned this down also" - don't need "also", plus there is a "disputed" tag on the end of this sentence
  • "Switching to East West Records in the late 1990s" - this entire paragraph is completely unsourced. That's not acceptable for a BLP I'm afraid
  • "In 2001, Tyler released a Greatest Hits compilation in conjunction with her 50th birthday" - this paragraph is unsourced

Collaborations

  • "Tyler did not record any duets while signed to RCA Records between 1976 and 1980,...." - this entire paragraph is unsourced
  • "For the soundtrack of the animated TV show The Dreamstone (1990), Tyler recorded" - this entire paragraph is unsourced
  • Two paragraphs in the "Bilingual duets" section are completely unsourced

Summary

  • I think I'm going to have to stop there, as while the article is better than before, I'm afraid there just seems to be far too much work to get this to GA status in a short space of time.
My first concern is that the quality of sources used seems to come from snippets of radio interviews and tabloid or tabloidesque newspapers, and there are still unsourced sections, which for a BLP is unfortunately a showstopper. To get a BLP to GA standard in my experience, you are far better off getting hold of an official biography and using that as your main source. I can't find a good example of one on a quick Google books search, and perhaps one doesn't exist. However, some of the broadsheet newspaper sources you've used (such as the Observer) could be mined further for information.
My second is that a lot of the prose, as clarified by the comments above is quite stilted and there doesn't appear to be a coherent narrative through it. Have a look at Katy Perry for some idea of how we can achieve this, and see how the prose flows well, rather than just being a list of single and album releases with chart positions. They are of course mentioned there, but broken up with comments about how she felt about stages of her career. I would see if you can badger SNUGGUMS to give you a hand with sourcing and copyediting if possible, as if I'm honest, large sections of the article could do with careful rewriting and copyediting. Sorry, especially as you had to wait so long for a review :-( Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 17:30, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

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Vocal nodules?

There is a single reference to Ms Tyler having 'nodules', or to having them removed. This is in section 3.2 of the article, on her vocal style, which states:

"Her voice has been likened to Rod Stewart and Kim Carnes as a result of her vocal nodules operation in the 1970s".

Can someone please provide more information in the early sections of this article ('Early life'? 'Career'?) to this surgery, and something about what it was/did? Otherwise this statement is void of any context. Ambiguosity (talk) 11:54, 2 August 2017 (UTC)

yugoslawian descent

? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:908:191:5FA0:7D3E:B404:E0C3:21B6 (talk) 17:58, 8 October 2017 (UTC)

father was indeed croatian

That is incorrect – her father was born in South Wales in 1905: [7] LiamXn (talk) 00:11, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

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Infobox image

I've been wondering for a while if the current image is the best choice. While I do acknowledge that the lighting is good, I find it a little bit blurry and not focused enough on Bonnie's face. I was considering this one, which is used as the lead picture on Wikipedia in several other languages, including German, Norwegian, and French and puts more focus on her face. I think it also has great lighting and it has the advantage of being less blurry as well as more recent than the one that is currently being used, but I do realise the microphone might be a concern. I'd be interested to hear other opinions about this. I haven't seen the topic being discussed, so I apologise if it already has been. Bizarre BizarreTalk modern to me 20:19, 13 April 2018 (UTC)

Dear Bizarre Bizarre, I hope you are well. I'm sorry to disagree, but I prefer the one in current use to the one you propose. It gives me a good sense of her as a performer on stage. Just my thought. George Custer's Sabre 05:44, 15 April 2018 (UTC)
  1. ^ Roberts, David (2004). Guinness World Records: British Hit Singles and Albums. London: Guinness World Records Limited. p. 165. ISBN 0851121993. {{cite book}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help)
  2. ^ "1980 Top 40 Official Albums Chart UK Archive - 20th September 1980". Official Charts Company. Retrieved 26 November 2014.
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