Talk:Central Intelligence Agency

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Former good article Central Intelligence Agency was one of the Social sciences and society good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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High traffic

On May 6 2007, Central Intelligence Agency was linked from Digg, a high-traffic website. (Traffic)

Dispute about the regional pages?[edit]

There seem to be disputes about regional pages, such as: CIA activities in the Near East, North Africa, South and Southwest Asia

It seems like this should be discussed. Right now, for instance, that specific article redirects to this article. One suggestion is that the page could be a jump page linking to the various country specific articles, and, in cases where a country may not have a dedicated country specific article, maybe information could be added to the regional page. This page, and the country specific pages though do seem to link to the regional pages which now redirect to this page.TeeTylerToe (talk) 12:07, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

I've started a sort of hybrid AfD / Merger proposal for the individual country "CIA activities in (blank)" articles. The issue there is keeping, deleting, merging, or redirecting those individual country articles, with the target of the merger or redirection to the regional "CIA activities in (blank)" articles. Some material from this article could be spun out to the regional or individual countries articles. The discussions are happening on the regional article talk pages. I'll list and link them in a new section below. Mnnlaxer (talk) 02:18, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

WP:SPINOUT[edit]

  YesY Merger complete. Information from this article has been merged into History of the Central Intelligence Agency. North America1000 04:22, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

North America, I appreciate the spinoff, and as you might have seen I was supporting something similar above; but surely we need a summary of the history here? The vast majority of scholarly sources on the topic cover history/activities, after all. Not a hundred kilobytes worth, certainly, but a normal-sized section is very necessary. Vanamonde93 (talk) 04:34, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
For starters, I added some content in the history section to provide a basic overview. North America1000 04:57, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for doing that. I will work on adding a much condensed history of its activities, probably just a handful of the most prominent actions. Not immediately, though, since I haven't the time right now. Vanamonde93 (talk) 05:10, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
Why was this done without discussion in the size section of this talk page where this issue was being discussed. To sum up my position in a sentence, the problem is that the history section that was in this article that you moved to a new article was the summary of summaries. iirc the prose size was around 108kb which I don't think requires drastic action. There are other ways of addressing the issue as was being discussed. And look at the history section now. I don't remember what it was before this started a few months ago but how could it be worse?TeeTylerToe (talk) 15:03, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
TeeTylerToe, the discussion above seems to support a spinoff, and NorthAmerica's edit was warranted. What it requires is for a summary of the history to be written. 108kb of prose is still far too long. I would suggest reverting your edit, and writing such a summary instead. Vanamonde93 (talk) 17:20, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
It already is a summary of summaries. As it is now it's a mess. What happened to the regional articles, are they now co-existing with northamerica's new history article? I don't think the meat cleaver approach is the right one for this job. We could create an article about the creation of the CIA, another about the history of the organization of the CIA. One about the CIA in Korea, another about the CIA and vietnam. That way we could trim the sections in this article on those topics and fill out the new articles. We could find a way to move around the part about the '53 Iran coup, distributing it to articles about that specific event. And simply putting the history section through a good editing process would probably cut it down by at least 8k. Per WP size policy hasty splits like this are explicitly discouraged. If somebody can boil the history of the CIA into a few paragraphs, then I guess we could follow it with a paragraph or two by president linking to subarticles. But the bar for summarizing the entire history of the CIA is very high, and it's doubly complicated because it would need to be supported with solid references. This article's summary of the CIA shouldn't just be some editor's synthesis.TeeTylerToe (talk) 21:53, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
There are some regional articles, but there is no reason they cannot coexist with this one, or we redirect the history here and just use the regional articles. Plenty of options exist there, and which one we use is basically irrelevant. What is important is that this is too long. A summary does not have to be synth. Different CIA actions are given different coverage in the sources. We cannot cover every single one here; so, we simply raise the bar for inclusion here, and put less prominent ones some-place else. North America, I'd like to hear your thoughts. Vanamonde93 (talk) 22:29, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── Splitting the article seemed to be a good thing to do, as per WP:SIZERULE, and there was a rough consensus above at the Size section to do something, so I performed a bold spinout. Since the content in the history section was restored, the article is now back at 185,495 bytes, and the content still exists at the History of the Central Intelligence Agency article. I recommend whatever consensus hopefully arises here about dealing with the overly long length of this article. I also strongly recommend, at least for the time being, changing the History section in this article back to a summary, because of the duplicity of content that presently exists. However, since this was reverted, and in the sincere interest of avoiding edit warring, I'll go along with whatever overall consensus hopefully emerges here. North America1000 23:46, 28 April 2015 (UTC)

Pinging Hohum as the only other editor to have weighed in. Thoughts? My personal take is that we can eliminate a lot of the less prominent activities of the CIA, and keep the ones that have received the most coverage, which is easily checked using scholarly search functions. Vanamonde93 (talk) 01:39, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
As I said here and in a section on this talk page dedicated to the issue, two of the regional articles have been turned into re-directs that point to this page. The asia region page and the near east, N. Africa, s. & sw asia region pages. The prose size is roughly 108kb. If someone comes along with a good, comprehensive, concise summary of the history of the CIA, that's great. I would imagine that it would touch on the cold war, on how the CIA supported different overarching strategies, e.g. containment, etc, and then touch on the rise of terrorism. Anyone here wants to write that, fantastic. But, I think an approach that we can all agree on, is that an effort is made on this page that, in addition to a summary of the history of the CIA that will be a long term goal, let's pen that in for next friday at 4, I suggest that summaries be made for the CIA under different presidents. Doing that piece by piece seems like a manageable, realistic way of getting the prose size of the article under 100kb. I think that should address the concern about size. This article should at least have, for instance, something on the bay of pigs. Then, if there's going to be a history of the CIA article, it too would have another summary, and then there would be an entire article about the bay of pigs. That's one way to go, and that seems to fit into the wikipedia model. But this is going to be a large, time consuming project, touching basically every article about the CIA and coordinating what information goes where. But there is absolutely no reason for this article to suffer for the sake of expediency. It would be great if you could just copy and paste a little bit, save changes, and fix everything. But I think my proposal preserves the quality of this article while addressing the size issue. I guess smaller parts of history that don't merit their own article will end up in the regional articles.TeeTylerToe (talk) 02:30, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
The article is already suffering from being difficult to read because it is far too long. It needs about a 25-40% reduction in prose. Many of the sections with their own main articles could be chopped down to a few sentences or a short paragraph. I don't see why the History section can't be split off and a single paragraph left to pitch the highlights. (Hohum @) 16:41, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
I think the article would benefit from having a short history, one paragraph, maybe a few paragraphs, but I'd also like to see some highlights on this page. Highlights of major events during different president's tenures, and, for instance, things like the bay of pigs. I think that's a goal we can all agree on. But I don't see how replacing the entire history section with "the cia was founded on..." improves anything at all. The plan I propose will probably reduce the prose size of the history section by 50% or more. Some sections will be eliminated, and some sections will be reduced to sentences. The congo section, for instance could be reduced to a single sentence, or eliminated, probably eliminated. Chad, the dominican republic, those sections would either be reduced to a single sentence or eliminated. But it's not as simple as just eliminating, for instance, those sections. I think we can all agree that there should be a paragraph or two on each presidential administration that serves as the concise coverage of the topic. Bill Clinton's presidency triggered a shift in the CIA from a focus on political power struggles (for instance) to a focus on human rights abuses, although in the instance of Somalia, that was triggered by his predecessor. During Clinton's presidency there was also a shift to a focus on terrorism, with the creation (iirc, not sure if the dates coincide) of the CIA's counterterrorism center, as well as the discovery of aldrich ames, who had sold the identities of every contact the CIA had in Russia to the KGB. It should probably also mention al qaeda and osama bin laden. I think that would meet, for instance, Hohum's goals of reducing the size of the history section by 25%-40%, it would meet wikipedia guidelines for covering topics like this at several levels. I think it would address everyone's concerns. But the changes would have to be coordinated with the other articles, the regional articles, and articles, about, for instance, the '53 iranian coup, or the bay of pigs and so on.TeeTylerToe (talk) 17:55, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────I think presidential summaries should be in the history article. This article should focus on now. (Hohum @) 20:33, 29 April 2015 (UTC)

Why would this article about the CIA focus on any one aspect of the CIA? Is that what people visiting the article are looking for? Do people viewing the article just want to know about what the agency is doing this exact moment? Should everything else be replaced with bare links to other articles?TeeTylerToe (talk) 23:29, 29 April 2015 (UTC)
  • It's been awhile, but not much action has emerged here. As such, I have replaced the lengthy history section with the link to the new article at History of the Central Intelligence Agency and a brief summary. This has significantly reduced the article's length, which is functional as per WP:SIZERULE. We shouldn't have both the history article and its content also replicated on the main CIA page. Of course, the history section in this main article can be expanded with various summarizing information, as has been discussed above. Also of note is that at 111 kilobytes, the History of the Central Intelligence Agency article itself also qualifies for spinouts as per WP:SIZERULE, but it may be better to keep the content of that article all in one place. North America1000 11:20, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
You replaced the entire history section with a redundant statement of when the agency was founded? Why do you insist on breaking policy in numerous ways forcing a no effort fork leaving nothing other than the link and redundant information about when the agency was founded? What is the need for haste on this? Why is a prose size of 108kb a crisis? Why are you performing almost the definition of an unacceptable fork? What is the urgency that requires immediate action when you replace it not with the required summary, but redundant information about when the agency was founded? Why do you deliberately ignore the discussion in the talk page, and choose to act without consensus? Why do I assume that you're one of those people that think that consensus on wikipedia is the result of a vote(my way of reminding you about consensus policy)?TeeTylerToe (talk) 13:24, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
Butchered the history section to mindlessly appease the gods of expediency. Prose size is now 97kb.TeeTylerToe (talk) 13:33, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Actually, users in the discussions above have suggested a spinout article of the history section. There's no haste, it's simple organization per an editing guideline. This does not break policy, it is adherence to a proper guideline. I'll state it again in case you missed it – of course, the history section in this main article can be expanded with various summarizing information, as has been discussed above. This is not a content fork, it's a valid and functional spinoff. I haven't ignored the discussion on this talk page whatsoever. Also, any and all input from all interested Wikipedia editors is certainly welcome. North America1000 13:53, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
TeeTylerToe has reverted the spinout for the second time (diff), with the edit summary "Butchering the history section". So, at this time, content in the History of the Central Intelligence Agency article is again duplicated in this article. North America1000 14:07, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
See the thread directly below. Requesting a formal discussion regarding this matter. North America1000 14:26, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

Should the history section of Central Intelligence Agency be split to History of the Central Intelligence Agency?[edit]

The thirty-day request for comment has concluded, and the overall consensus herein is to perform a page split of the article to History of the Central Intelligence Agency. North America1000 12:17, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

To reduce page length, a WP:SPINOUT was created that moved content from Central Intelligence Agency to History of the Central Intelligence Agency. This has now been reverted twice by one user. Per the editing guideline WP:SIZERULE, articles over 100 kilobytes should "almost certainly should be divided". The article is presently at 172 97 kilobytes readable prose size. Users in threads above on the talk page have suggested that this split of the History section would serve to functionally reduce the page's size and better-organize it, while others have opposed this. Some have also suggested additional various means to reduce the page's length. North America1000 14:25, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

  • Support. The history section is the longest one in the article, so it is logical to split this section to a new article, as per WP:SPINOUT and WP:SPINOFF. North America1000 14:25, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Support The section is far, far too long. NorthAmerica, are you sure the RfC is necessary? It seems to me that a consensus exists above, and that what TeeTylerToe is objecting to is the length of the summary you produced. I am also a little culpable here, as I said I would evolve an intermediate, but RL intervenes. Vanamonde93 (talk) 15:00, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Definitely needs to be split. The summary can be written and tweaked afterwards. (Hohum @) 15:53, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
  • It's Complicated If Northamerica1000 portrays my position as being against reducing the size of the history section, that is a straw man argument, because, as I have stated earlier on this talk page, I do support making the history section a better, more concise summary. If Northamerica1000 portrays my position as being against the history section being a summary of the history of the CIA, that is a straw man argument, because, as I have stated earlier on this talk page, I do support making the history section a concise summary of the history of the CIA and I discussed that, and different methods it could be done earlier. Now, if you actually read WP:SPINOUT, you know that, for the purposes of article size, you use prose size, which, in the case of this article, as I said in this talk page, and as it says in the big box right at the top of the article, is 97kb. Even northamerica1000 recognizes that what he keeps replacing the history section with is nothing like a real summary which begs the question, why keep replacing the history section with basically nothing, violating the rules on splittng, and obviously acting in haste over a invented crisis. This breaks several policies at the same time. Shoot for the moon, eh? It would be valid if northamerica1000 spent the time to actually create a summary of the history of the cia rather than replacing the section with redundant information on when the cia was founded. Which is what was being discussed in the talk page, which wouldn't be a surprise for people that weren't ignoring the discussion. Why discuss how to split an article when you can just replace the history section with when the agency was founded? As for northamerica1000's argument that because the history section is large that it should be split, that is an argument for expediency. What is the need for haste? Why choose the most expedient option over better options? Why leave the history section with just a notation of when the agency was founded? Why do editors insist on a hasty, no effort edit that only serves to make the article worse? Articles need to stand on their own, per wikipedia policy. The history summary needs to be able to stand on it's own.TeeTylerToe (talk) 16:13, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment – I agree with Hohum above, "The summary can be written and tweaked afterwards". This could be performed collaboratively among interested editors. North America1000 16:39, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
If you're talking about after the creation of the history of the cia article, well, you created that a week ago or so. Sometimes it gets as many as 20 hits on a high activity day. But what is the need for haste? Why rush replacing the entire history section with basically nothing?TeeTylerToe (talk) 16:49, 7 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Do it Yes, it should be an article itself. It appears someone was bold enough to do it already but someone didn't approve. I also see comments above such as "Why the haste?" It's not about haste, it's the first step. It appears there's a concensus that it should be split into a new article so instead of stopping progress it may be easier to help fix whatever thing it is you don't like. Lucutious (talk) 13:05, 29 May 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"Butchery"[edit]

I ask the editor who has just made some very obvious protest edits to revert them before someone seeks administrative action. It is not acceptable behaviour, and strains assumption of good faith to beyond its limit. The attitude behind comments like "Why discuss things on talk pages when you can just mindlessly cut stuff" is not collegiate. (Hohum @) 16:50, 7 May 2015 (UTC)

The Company[edit]

Some years ago the article intro included a mention of the fact that the CIA sometimes goes by the name of Other Government Agencies, The Agency, or The Company. I'm not sure when this was removed but I feel it should be re-added since it's useful info that isn't mentioned anywhere else within the article. Slac speak up! 09:10, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

What the heck's going on?[edit]

Why was the subject matter expert needed tag removed, and why was the history section put through a blender? Section headers seem to have little or no relevance to the text contained in said section, and the narrative is shot to kingdom come. In the "intelligence vs action" section that seems to first be about the korean war, which is the section that follows it, isn't about the korean war or about intelligence vs action. It talks about the staffing of the CIA at the time having risen to roughly 1,000 with the context (that the CIA had been gutted to the bone after ww2) stripped away entirely. I haven't gotten further, but I can't say that I'm optimistic. Oh, and Lawrence wasn't the head of the CIG or the CIA. He was the chief counsel.TeeTylerToe (talk) 15:16, 3 June 2015 (UTC)

What the heck is going on is that I'm implementing the consensus reached above, that the history section is far too long. Trimming requires omitting some details, and summarizing necessarily glosses over some intricacies and context. Which is why you have a main article. Besides, the prose that I came to was far from stellar; there were unexplained references and redundancies aplenty, and far far too much detail for the page at this level. You say the "narrative is shot to hell;" well yes, because the previous version was not even chronological, but jumped back and forth. You want to copy edit the version I created, go ahead; don't gripe about the fact that pruning is taking place, since it's obviously necessary, and nobody else was stepping up to do it. Vanamonde93 (talk) 15:35, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
I agree that the History section needs reduction into a summary format per the consensus that has developed at the discussion above ("Should the history section of Central Intelligence Agency be split to History of the Central Intelligence Agency?") relative to the creation of the History of the Central Intelligence Agency article to address the overly-lengthy state of this article. I also agree with the reorganization of content in the History section of this article into a chronological summary. North America1000 15:47, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
How many times doe we have to go over this? We ALL support making the article shorter, and making the history section more concise. Why is it being made worse? Yes when, for instance, mention of the korean war, and many other historically significant events were added to the history section friction did develop with older sections that purported to cover large parts of the cold war which were left so that they could be worked into a later, better version of the article, but the important thing is making the article better, rather than worse. Improving coverage by, for instance, giving the korean war a mention. The gutting of the CIA is important for two reasons, one it's important in it's own right, and secondly, it's important because you reference it ("grown to roughly 1,000 employees"). Also, getting simple facts right is better than getting simple facts wrong. The point is improving the article by making it more concise, not making it worse.TeeTylerToe (talk) 16:32, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
"sigh" When I edited the article yesterday, I was attempting to make it shorter, not worse. Northamerica1000, for one, seems to think I was having at least some success. The prose that existed before my cuts was awful, and that also needed changing. If you think you can improve on my standards, then by all means do so; there's about 20 more history sections that need pruning, and I do not own any of them. Make a cut that you think is a positive change, and let's take it from there. Vanamonde93 (talk) 21:20, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
On the topic of awful prose, in your efforts to "improve" the article, how about you keep some casual relationship between a section and the section's title, keep basic factual errors out of your edits, and, if you cut parts out of a narrative, you change the rest of the narrative accordingly. Mindless cutting from an article is not an improvement. Cutting things and replacing them with factual errors is not an improvement. Leaving sections a disjointed mess is not an improvement. Leaving sections mislabeled is not an improvement.TeeTylerToe (talk) 00:10, 4 June 2015 (UTC)

Regional and country "CIA activities in (blank)" articles[edit]

I've started discussions on all "CIA activities in (region)" talk pages. They are formally merger proposals for some of the individual country articles into the regional articles. But really it is a hybrid AfD / merger proposal for some of the individual country "CIA activities in (blank)" articles. The discussion should cover keeping, deleting, merging, or redirecting those individual country articles, with the target of the merger or redirection to the regional "CIA activities in (blank)" articles. In addition, some material from this article could be spun out to the regional or individual country articles. Mnnlaxer (talk) 02:48, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

In addition, I think it makes sense to go to a continent scheme for the regional articles. Americas stays the same, but the others should be Europe (including Russia), Africa, and Asia. Australia and New Zealand articles currently redirect to the main CIA article, but I would favor redirecting to the Asia article, and either keep "and the Pacific" or not. Mnnlaxer (talk) 02:48, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

The five articles above appear to reflect the CIA's regional structure, so I would leave them that way. I think all the separate country articles should redirect to whatever region they are in. - Location (talk) 05:47, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
@Location: Can you point me to where you got that impression? Sorry if its easy to find or in this article itself, just being lazy. In general, my attempt at debate has attracted very little attention, which means lets go forward with what we've got. I assume you mean all of the individual country articles that I picked out for being particularly weak and leave the single country articles not listed, at least for now. Please do that yourself or respond here and I'll do it. Mnnlaxer (talk) 19:48, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
@Mnnlaxer: I must be thinking of the six DOS regional bureaus... [1][2]. The CIA's website notes something different... [3]. Yes, I'm OK with merging only the articles you noted. - Location (talk) 20:40, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
That's the Analyst division. The Clandestine service's regions are probably classified. See "How the NCS is organized?" on the FAQ. I think continents are the way to go. -- Mnnlaxer (talk) 20:47, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

I started with CIA activities in the Near East, North Africa, South and Southwest Asia, blanking and redirecting Algeria, Burma, Jordan (questionable), Morocco, Sri Lanka, and Tunisia. But keeping Turkey and Yemen. Talk can continue on that regional page. Mnnlaxer (talk) 20:36, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

The Latin American page is the only one of these that I watch, but it seems to me the general approach here should be to have continent or region based articles, and have country-specific articles in the countries where there is enough coverage of CIA activities to require an article per WP:DUE. Vanamonde93 (talk) 21:20, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
I think continent is best. That is the approach I'm taking, but I think the policy is Notability. -- Mnnlaxer (talk) 21:41, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
You're right, notability is the one I was thinking of. Linked the due weight policy out of carelessness :) It's been a long day. Vanamonde93 (talk) 21:45, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

Regional articles[edit]

Work is ongoing with the individual countries and regional CIA activities pages. Since the CIA does not publish any geographical operational divisions, I think using the continents makes the most sense. The only divergence I see worth it is to include all non-mainland Asian countries with Australia, naming it "Australia and the Pacific." And keeping Russia in the Europe category and in the article name. If anyone has any objections to changing to continent-based articles, speak up. - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 15:35, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

All blanking/redirecting of the stub/non-notable individual CIA activities in ____ is done. Regional articles are cleaned up, but still need a lot of work. Before that however, I will wait to see if there is any objection to continent reorganization. The previous organization was incorrectly done according to CIA analysis divisions, not operations. - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 17:19, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
One problem I foresee is that there is a lot of material pertaining to the CIA's Near East Division and it is unclear how material pertaining to that would find a home in the proposed re-categorization. For example, this link indicates that NE Division spans multiple continents. A similar issue may arise with material about the Soviet Union and Russia. - Location (talk) 07:53, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
I don't see that as a problem. The internal organization of the National Clandestine Service is 1) classified, 2) uses both geography and subject matter, and 3) doesn't impact the Wikipedia articles' organization in any way. The classification means it is practically impossible to mimic, I note your source above covers "by 1957." For the wiki articles, there will never be any material in the regional articles that covers personnel, org charts, or internal discussions of the NCS. The only criteria I think we need to keep in mind is pragmatic - what is the most useful organization? I think continents are the best answer. As for CIA activities in the Soviet Union, I think it could be an exception to the continent organization. I would not put it in the continent structure at all, but list "Soviet Union" in the templates next to the continents. It is a sufficiently significant topic in its own right, is purely historical, and the many Asian SSR's makes it more significantly trans-continental. - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 13:41, 17 July 2015 (UTC)
The fact that there was/is a Near East Division is not beyond the realm of reliable sources. Let's say I want to insert material that states "Tom Twetten was placed in charge of the CIA's Near East Division in 1983." Would that go under Africa or Asia? What about material pertaining to Russia? Does that mean the CIA template and Category:Overseas CIA activities by region would note "North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia and the Pacific, Soviet Union, and Russia"? For our purposes, I think the DoS regions would work better. - Location (talk) 01:08, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
It's beyond what we have right now and I would claim could ever expect to have. However, if your hypothetical came to pass, it could go in both articles. Yes, but I would keep the current "Russia and Europe" and the "Americas" articles. The only changes I propose are to move North Africa into the Africa article, consolidate mainland Asia, and add Australia and the Pacific. I'm not going to insist on this reorg, so I would appreciate if other editors shared their opinions. - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 02:27, 18 July 2015 (UTC)
I don't have any strong preferences or strong objections to what you have suggested. I'm curious to what others might suggest, too. - Location (talk) 09:09, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
I don't think anyone else is going to weigh in, so I'm going to go forward with continent reorganization. Remember this mainly affects the current Near East, North Africa, South and Southwest Asia article, which is a handful of a name and doesn't provide clear borders of the region. - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 14:59, 24 July 2015 (UTC)
Go for it. - Location (talk) 15:01, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

I finished and I think I cleaned up the loose ends, but please click around to check. One remaining change I would suggest is to elevate the Soviet Union to an article listed with the continents. The title in the template is actually Geographic activities, so that would still fit. And it makes more sense than putting the Soviet Union article within the Russia and Europe article. Thoughts? - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 22:14, 24 July 2015 (UTC)

There was an issue because CIA activities in Australia and the Pacific didn't have any material after the reorg. I didn't realize the Australia and New Zealand articles were redirects to CIA. So they are back to CIA redirects now and the continent article is deleted. One downside is that the deleted history and talk page are from when the article was named "CIA activities in Asia and the Pacific". That article before the reorg included Asia besides the Middle East, South and Southwest Asia, and Russia (Soviet Union). The article wasn't much good, but it might be useful to preserve the history. So if anyone things so and knows how/has the access to do it, go for it.
The new Asia article could be renamed Asia and the Pacific and really mean it, but it probably isn't worth bothering at this point. Other that this, the process worked pretty well and I do intend to work to improve these articles at some point, but please jump right in if you want to. - Mnnlaxer | talk | stalk 03:25, 30 July 2015 (UTC)