Talk:Chinese armies in the Second Sino-Japanese War

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May I suggest that this piece be logged under the category of fiction, since it is clearly crude wartime propaganda.

You have not given any proper citation for this work.

The entire piece seems to be based on one book.

This is utter rubbish, that has no place in what purports to be a serious forum. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:35, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Name change[edit]

Propose name change: to Combat effectiveness of Chinese armies in WW2 or Combat Effectiveness of Chinese armies in Second Sino-Japanese War. 8th Route Army and New Fourth Army did not do the bulk of the fighting, and it would be unfair to brush aside the details on NRA forces. -Hmib 09:36, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

No. It sounds too stuffy, and it is not really what we want an article about. How about, "Campaigns of the Chinese armies in the Second Sino-Japanese War" or "Progress of the Chinese armies in the Second Sino-Japanese War"? Rintrah 14:35, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

This should be broken up and the armour and airforce items rolled into the National Revolutionary Army article group of links. The Chinese army stuff if supportable should be rolled into accounts of the battles they occured in. Asiaticus 11:32, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Material from a page redirected here. Charles Matthews 16:10, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Some testimonies of the effectiveness of the Chinese Army in fights against the Japanese, during the Second Sino-Japanese War:

  • -The General Chu Teh, Commander-in-Chief of Communists Army published one inform at Nation in july 7, 1942. in this comment "why your 8°Route Army non receiving money or munitions of government for ¡during three Years!.the 8° and New 4° Route Armies in 1941-42 having

to combat with more of 24 Japanese divisions or having one 44% of total Japanese Armed forces distacated in China;in same period the 8° Route Army suffered lowests valued in 23,034 deaded and 10,856 wounded and losses ones 65 higt rank officers, these last numbers exposed the feroucious of combats.

the General Chu calculated why your soldiers having to giving death or wounded at more of 24,000 Japanese and local collaborators. The army and the other army joining captured one total of 38,985 prisoners with great quantity of belic equipment.the New 4° having captured ones 15,721 rifles, 301 machine guns ligth and heavys and other much materiel included clothes foods, and medicines"

  • -other testimonie mentioned about the New 4° Route Communist Army why " having sustain 231 battles, captured 1,539 rifles, 32 ligths machine guns, 4 heavy machine guns,48 sub machine guns, 50,000 munitions for ligth weapons, 22,738 Occupation Yen moneys in

Japanese bank notes, radios, horses, mules, Flags, 200 trucks and raiway wagons,20 Km of rail lines ,7 Km of ways,95 brigdes,20 Km of wires of electric energy and captured others 38 Japanese officers and 613 collaborationist soldiers and making ones 3,253 wounded to enemiy".

Your proper lowests are cyphered in 234 deaths and 4,231 wounded.additionally theirs in collaboration with local residents having to eliminated at 3,000 bandits armies why approved the Japanese actions for robbery and sacking villges, some of theirs with Japanese support.

  • -in may 22 1945, Chinese forces taken at enemy "ones 17 Japanese officers, 230 soldiers,,347 horses,,24 cannons of diverse calibers ,100 ligth and heavy machine guns,1,333 rifles, and 20 tonnes of diverse equipment".
  • -Others testimonies about Chinese Forces effectivessness in combats:
  • about Chinese airforces exists some relates of dogfihths:

-where one chinese figther, American Aircraft Boeing P-12F (model 218) are the first american figther downed one Japanese figther over same action during new combat these figther are downed.

-Chinese Airforce used too the Boenig P-26A "Peashooter" against Japanese enemies, during air combats over Nanking and Shanghai, obtain more downed of enemy bombers.

-the Personal aricraft of Gen.Claire Chennault are one Curtiss Hawk 75, and your soldiers of "Flying Tigers" used the Curtiss P-40 Types "Tomahawk","Kittyhawk" and Curtiss-Wrigth Cw-21 "Demon".same planes are used for Chinese pilots too.

-the Generalissimo Chiang poses one Curtiss-Wrigth BT-32 "Condor II", Special modified how personal plane.

-the Bomber used in Taihoku Air Strike are one Martin 139 WH-2 (Model 139).

-Chinese Airforce poses too german planes Heinkel He 50aCh(chinese type) and Heinkel He 111 A-0(10 examples).

-other Chinese planes are: Lockheed F-5,North American P-51 B, C and D "Mustang",Republic P-43 A "Lancer" and P-47 Thunderbolt, Vultee V-11-GB,Vultee P-66 Vanguard,North American B-25 Mitchell, Ryan STM-S2,Fiat CR.32bis,Gloster Gladiator Mk.1,Dewoitine D.510 and somes Nakajima Ki-43 Oscar",Nakajima Ki-27"Nate", and others captured to Enemy.chinese forcescaptured one example of Mitsubishi A6M2 (Model 11) Zero and envoyed to US for evaluations.

-Chinese air units receiving somes Russian Planes how:Bombers Tupolev SB-2, SB-2bis and Tupolev T-2S, figthers Polikarpov I-15 and I-15bis,Polikarpov I-153¨,Polikarpov I-16 Type 24 and UTI-4.

-Other arcrafts in use in chinese airforce are:Beech C-45 Expediter,Curtiss Hawk II & III,Curtiss A-12 Shrike ,Curtiss P-36 A(Hawk 75)and Vougth V-65C Corsair.

-The CAMCO(Central Aircraft Manufacturing Company) are private Chinese Company dedicated to making aircrafts from pieces of US or foreing proceded and are one repair shop too.these company are other support to Flying Tigers activities in Chinese Mainland.the instalations of these company in at Loiwing are object of air strikes of Japanese Bombers.

-Somes types of these planes previous mentioned are distacated in air fierce defense of Hankow,Wuchang and Chungking against Japanese Army and Navy Airforces.

  • -other Chinese Army land actions:

-in first tentative in Shangtung, Hopei and Shanghai the Japanese forces suffering losses or stay obligued to retireing of area debt at Chinese Army defensive actions.

-During second Shanghai battle, Japanese forces stay cuasy defeated, for why Chinese forces poses majority and well strategy, but theirs receiving reinforces more later.

-After of Battle of Kweshan, Chinese forces captured 10 soldiers of Manchukuo Imperial Forces, two heavy artillery pieces of 9,3 cm and one poses plaque why indicate "Manufactured in Tokyo,1940". in Juikwotan, Chinese forces confiscated at Japanese two American trucks , one of theirs stay full with new hand grenades packaged. chinese forces taken the grenade packages and one artillery piece. the chinese general headquarters stay more full of Japanese flags , pieces for trucks and cars, tools, rifles, pistols, revolvers, munitions , mortars with munitions, covers and secret peasant society "Hwang Shih Hwei" aid to captured some Japanese and these equipment mentioned above during actions.chinese lament the combat loss of young officer Loh Hun-ping nearest enemy position in Miaoerpu when guided one offensive group against enemies.

Abuot my cleanup/rewrite – I left alone parts whose meaning was ambiguous (rather, parts that I was completely unable to decipher). It still could use more (maybe a lot more) cleanup and/or rewriting. No offense to the author of these articles, and I know these articles provide a lot of information, but whoa, I never knew Wikipedia had articles that were this badly written! -- Gsp 04:01, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

This all sounds like a Chinese lacquered PRC rewrite of history. They want to put up firewalls there, and write lies here. Such cowards they are.

I happen to agree with your opinion that this article seems strongly biased in favor of the Chinese military. However, the appropriate response to an POV article is to do what you can to make it more NPOV, not to personally insult the authors. If you want to engage the authors in dialogue, to get help from them in making the article less POV, you should probably sign your comments with a screen name or IP address by typing four tildes (~) after your comments. That way they can find you to talk things over with you. Invisible Flying Mangoes 17:26, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I use Wikipedia daily and I am stunned by the bias of this article. I never thought such biased article could last long without correction. I believe the most accurate title of this article is “Chinese armies under CCP in the Second Sino-Japanese War as viewed from CCP”. The 8th Route Army and the New 4th Army, which description is the bulk of the article, represent no more than 10% of the entire Chinese military force fighting the Japanese in the war. This article leaves out the main part of the Chinese armies that fought the vast majority of the battles incurring the most losses of the invading Japanese troops while suffering the primary casualty. The article Second Sino-Japanese War is a typical high quality one of Wikipedia and it provides sufficient evidence showing how biased this article is. I urge the change of the title or overhaul the article to suit the current title. Zipswich (talk) 14:07, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

First sentence[edit]

During the Second Sino-Japanese War, sometimes thought of as a theater of World War II, the Chinese Army had two severe handicaps. The first sentences just launches into the action without appropriate context. Perhaps a sentence like "The Second Sino-Japanese is a war which..." would be more appropriate. I know there are greater problems with the article, but someone should at least make the first sentence good. Rintrah 19:14, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Removed sentence[edit]

In the Generalissimo's Command Office one photo of General Tze-chung remained; the caption of this photo read, "Why your will stay at finish in calm." found in [1].

The quote does not make any sense. There is no benefit to the reader in leaving the sentence in the article. If this account is important, it can be reinserted into the article later with a better translation.

The last section is a mess. It needs considerable cleaning up.

There is a concern over the lack of sources for alleged war crimes. If any editor has the time, it would greatly benefit the article if sources were found and the statements verified. Rintrah 13:20, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Aircraft list[edit]

I've reorganized the list as follows, so it should read better now:

  • within each type, alpha by nation, then by manufacturer, then by model if multiple models of the same aircraft are cited
  • removed uncertain indications of numbers, i.e. ?
  • removed all instances of "units" and "example"; this is an awkward way to cite numbers of aircraft and this is the first and only time that I've seen such terms used, just the numbers will suffice --BrokenSphere 03:34, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

air force in general[edit]

I did a preliminary grouping into paragraphs. Since some of the items seem to relate to specific aircraft types, it is hard to see any overall organization. Since most of the material is unsourced, and much of it is laking dates and other specifics, it is not that easy to figure out what is intended. I did remove some POV as found. I am not an expert in this field, and used mainly common sense. if it doesn't apply, change according to whatever criterion does. It might help to separate this from the rest of the article, which is in a much more finished state. I did not work on the aircraft list, since it seems to be in good hands. DGG 03:37, 21 January 2007 (UTC)


Grounded tiger[edit]

I deleted

"(The personal aircraft of General Claire Chennault was a Hawk 75; his airmen of the "Flying Tigers" used the Curtiss P-40 types "Tomahawk", "Kittyhawk" and some Curtiss-Wright s manufactured in America.)"


"This company was another source of support for the Flying Tigers' activities in the Chinese Mainland."

because it's very unclear to me the Tigers were even in China at the time described. (They didn't reach China until after Pearl Harbor, recall.) In 1937, Chennault led the International Squadron. Cf Caidin, The Ragged, Rugged Warriors. Trekphiler (talk) 20:36, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

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