Talk:Cleric (character class)

Clerics, Blunt Weapons and Shedding Blood

It is not really a matter of debate as to whether real life Priestly Warriors used blunt weapons over edged ones to comply with a biblical rule. They did not. Aside from there being no evidence outside of Odo of Bayeux that this was ever the case and that ArchBishop Turpin in La Chanson de Roland fights entirely as a Knight, the Cleric Class was itself inspired by the Military Orders, who most certainly did not shy away from edged or bladed weapons. It is not a matter of debate, as much as it is an idea inspired by a late nineteenth century historian. It was thoroughly debunked long ago. David R. Bates, in his article, The Character and Career of Odo, Bishop of Bayeux (1049/50-1097 in Speculum, Vol. 50, No. 1. (Jan., 1975), pp. 1-20 cites on page 6 : Maistre Waces Roman de Rou, ed. R. Andresen, 2 vols. (Heilbronn, 1877), 352-53. The Carmen de Hastingae Proelio, ed. C. Morton and H. Muntz (Oxford, 1972), pp. 20, 28, refers to the hasta as a symbol of command. See Bourrienne, p. 25, to support his arguments, which are well accepted. --M.J.Stanham 20:26, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Merger proposal

Resolved

 – Gordon Ecker (talk) 04:18, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

I suggest this article be merged with Healer (gaming). The articles are similar; there's no need for two of them. SharkD 07:48, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

• I disagree. The role of cleric is specific, and separate to that of a generic healer. --Muna (talk) 09:24, 24 December 2007 (UTC)

• i disagree generic healers doesnt summon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.215.125.107 (talk) 15:09, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

• I disagree. In many games, the Cleric is a specialty healer - the best at pure healing, at the expense of less utility than other healers: EverQuest: Cleric, Druid, Shaman; EverQuest II: Cleric (Inquisitor, Templar), Druid (Fury, Warden), Shaman (Mystic, Defiler); World of Warcraft: Priest, Druid, Paladin, Shaman; Vanguard: Saga of Heros: Bloodmage, Cleric, Disciple, Shaman. Confusing "Cleric" with the parent archetype of "Healer" (or Priest) would create confusion. Samanna (talk) 02:50, 8 June 2008 (UTC)

• They, in some sense, are quite similar, although people seem to object to a complete merging, perhaps they could have a subsection of each other? Or a link in related topics... 70.108.235.156 (talk) 15:00, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

• Both these articles are entirely unsourced and probably more than a little original research. As a result, the subjects of each article aren't well defined. How can we decide to merge, if we can't tell whether the articles are covering the same thing? Let's wait until one or both articles are improved with sources. After that, the decision to merge or not should be more clear. Matt Fitzpatrick (talk) 12:35, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

• I disagree entirely. clerics (at least from a D&D standpoint) are much more than just healers. they are capable melee fighters with many offensive spells and useful little tricks, unlike ,say, priests from world of warcraft who have to sacrifice damage dealing ability in order to be effective healers. a D&D cleric can both fight and heal effectivley. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 155.194.200.20 (talk) 19:30, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose. There is considerable overlap, but many games have non-cleric healers and/or non-healer clerics. -- Gordon Ecker (talk) 23:59, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

• Oppose merge. Clerics can be very different than "fantasy medics with a religious twist." In P&P games, where the class originated, clerics are often more like a cross between a tank and a glass cannon. Clerics in more creepy universes can also have witch/vampire/zombie-hunter personas, using the undead-affecting abilities they always seem to get stuck with. True, in video games, the "cleric" is almost exclusively a healer, but that's because game developers have limited options for pre-loaded character classes to offer players, and the generic word "healer" isn't very evocative. Besides, real-world clerics aren't really involved in the healing arts all that much. But wait, there's more! Matt Fitzpatrick's right! They're both totally unsourced, and (like my own arguments), heavily based on original research (for new guys, that's wiki-speak for "personal experience," which really isn't vetted info). This article needs citations first, then we start shooting down any proposals to merge them :) Durty Willy (talk) 03:47, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

• Merge or just delete both articles - I can find no actual sources available for "cleric class" nor have I found anything about "healer (gaming)" and apparently neither has anyone else as the articles have remained unsourced for a year. Felisse (talk) 19:55, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

• Don't merge or delete. I've been playing Nethack for 20 years, so that was my choice for references. I added the Nethack definition of Priests and Priestesses to the Priest/Cleric page, and the Nethack definition of Healer to the Healer page (they are 2 completely different character classes in that game). Both with references pointing to the Nethack Guidebook. Picture it like claiming Catholic Priests and Chinese Herbalists/Acupuncturists have the same job description. Madamecp (talk) 17:14, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

Other Games trim

I've gone ahead and heavily cut back on some of the detail in this section, most of which (while no doubt notable in the context of the relevant games) wasn't a notable element of Clerics in themselves. I've also boldy cut the whole MapleStory section - there just didn't seem to be a reason why this game alone gets a section to itself, especially since the content was similarly game-specific rather than cleric-tastic. Hope that's okay with people. 81.101.137.66 (talk) 01:53, 19 January 2011 (UTC)