Talk:Cordelia Ray

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Editing Ray[edit]

I have added the sonnet to Touissant L'Ouverture because it is notable on poetry websites. Harold Bloom is not a noted scholar of African American poetry; his wikipedia page does not include the word "African." Jessie Fauset was a contemporary reviewer. I don't have any personal views on Cordelia Ray. There is room enough to have a discussion of many poems here.JRW03 (talk) 22:09, 21 September 2015 (UTC)

Please follow Wikipedia policy and guidelines for WP:BRD which I have just linked for you here, and which requires that you establish consensus on the Talk page prior to your making edits on the article page. You need to make your case here before you edit the article page which I am reverting to the neutral version. Please read and follow WP:BRD. Also, you should not be making denigrating statements about Harold Bloom, a living scholar, in order to promote your own viewpoint which is a violation against WP:BLP. MusicAngels (talk) 17:15, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
Nope. I have added good material and you are being not helpful JRW03 (talk) 22:36, 22 September 2015 (UTC)
You appear to be edit warring on two pages simultaneously (Cordelia Ray and James D. Corrothers) and you appear to be ignoring all guidelines for WP:BRD. You appear to have no knowledge of what a bold edit is, and your appear to have no knowldege of what a revert calling for necessary Talk page discussion is requiring you to do. You are currently serially reverting text against 3RR. Please stop edit warring and under no circumstances are your to go past WP:3RR in violation of those guidelines and policies. Your edit is reverted until you establish consensus on the respective Talk pages. You have already made sequential reverts against WP:EW and you must refrain from violation of WP:3RR. MusicAngels (talk) 14:29, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
Sorry User:MusicAngels you are in violation of WP:AGF and WP:FOC. You have given no substantial basis for your edits while User:JRW03 has.192.12.13.14 (talk) 15:24, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
  • This edit is bad, and so is the version before it. Both suffer from lack of proper secondary sourcing, both feature OR. The IP's version has "The poems are rarely considered for re-publication in contemporary anthologies of poetry", which cannot possibly be verified by reference to the work itself, while the previous version has "The poems are written in a high romantic tone usually of sentimental candor", which doesn't seem to be verified in the Bloom book (note--"seem"), and "The opening verses to her poem on Milton are indicative of her highly romantic tone offered", which certainly can't be verified by (again) reference to the original publication. The blind are leading the blind here. Drmies (talk) 18:23, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
Greetings Drmies -- I would like to know what I can do to make my edits acceptable. I have cited sources and page numbers for every work of scholarship that I use to reference changes. I depend on good published work by experts in the field.JRW03 (talk) 18:28, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
  • JRW03, if this is your edit too (you and the IP from Baltimore seem to be in perfect agreement in these articles), I think you need to add a reliable secondary source after "anthologies of poetry"; you need to move the Bloom reference to after "highly romantic tone" and include page numbers and convince me that Bloom actually says that; you need to give a reference for "others praise her"; you need to indicate how that "while" in that sentence is warranted, since you suggest that "highly romantic tone" is a note of censure; you need to give a better citation for the Looney reference; you need to prove why the one poem you quote from is notable, and you need to remove the poetryfoundation link. Drmies (talk) 18:34, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
OK Drmies I can do these things. I do not know who Baltimore is. I am glad others are paying attention. I don't think Harold Bloom should be quoted regarding Ray at all, since he is not known for scholarship in African American literature. I kept him in hoping that MusicAngles would get out of his pickle. I'd really rather cut the Bloom quote altogether and focus on references that cite Ray's poetry. I picked the Touissant poem because The Poetry Foundation features it. But I will do the work you suggest and I thank you.JRW03 (talk) 18:38, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
JRW; The link being provided for you on my Talk page is from a reliable editor, User:Bgwhite, in the hope that you will read it on WP:BRD (just click his link for it.) My own concern is that the long poem which you are quoting does not belong at the end of this article and there is no critic who has called it "notable" as you claim in the article. Try to read the link which Bgwhite has just provided for you. MusicAngels (talk) 21:11, 23 September 2015 (UTC)
I don't think we need a link for this--link to BRD? We know, and we're well past that. Now we're in the stage where statements are to be verified. If JRW finds the sources, then they're in business. Drmies (talk) 23:36, 23 September 2015 (UTC)

Cordelia Ray scholarship[edit]

When editing is allowed to resume (soon I hope, User:Drmies User:Bgwhite), I will drawing upon the the scholarly work of several notable experts in Black poetry, including:

  • Erlene Stetson's Black Sister: Poetry by Black American Women, 1746-1980. (Indiana Univ Pr, 1981) and of course
  • Joan Sherman's foundational Invisible Poets: Afro-Americans of the Nineteenth Century (University of Illinois Press, 1989).

I have both of these books in front of me, both are known scholars in the field, and both have throughly researched Ray. If anyone else disputes these sources, I welcome knowing other sources that spend more than a page on Ray. JRW03 (talk) 22:47, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

@JRW03:I have tried to undo some of the damage done by an editor who has now been blocked from Wikipedia, and I hope my other minor revisions seem worthwhile. You've been doing most of the work on this page, and I promise not to complain about any changes you want to make. Wikipedia is a lot nicer place this weekend, isn't it? || AvianObserver (talk) 20:04, 11 October 2015 (UTC)
    • Thank you very much and thank you for the formatting. I don't know why I didn't think about making the poem a block quote. I fancy myself semi knowledgable about how to make pages (sometimes I'm asked to upload a page and I'm happy to oblige) but I have had an education this past several months to be sure. Yes, I feel the fresh air already and thank you. *JRW03 (talk) 00:55, 12 October 2015 (UTC)