Talk:Coty/Archives/2018

Unsourced content removal

On behalf of Coty, Inc., and as part of my work at Beutler Ink, I am here to propose improvements to this Wikipedia article. I will refrain from editing the article directly, and will request improvements on this talk page for volunteer editors to review and implement appropriately. I'd like to start by requesting removal of unsourced content, in an attempt to "clean the slate" a bit before proposing specific content additions.

To make reviewing easier, I've separated my requests by section:

1960s and 1970s

All of the following claims are unsourced (so, the entire 1960s/1970s history):

• Coty and Coty International were sold in 1963 to Chas. Pfizer & Co. for about US$26 million and became divisions in the pharmaceuticals company's consumer products group.
• In 1965 Coty introduced Improvu, its first new perfume in 25 years. This became the leading Coty fragrance by the end of 1968.
• Coty and Coty International were united in 1973.
• Among the new products introduced in the early 1970s were the Styx, Sweet Earth, and Wild Musk fragrances and the Equatone beauty-treatment line. The production facility was moved from New York City to Sanford, North Carolina, at this time. Coty products were being marketed to franchised accounts, including distributors, independent drugstores, mass merchandisers, and department stores. Results were not meeting expectations, however, for the subsidiary was reported to be on the block in 1974 for possibly as little as $20 million—less than Pfizer had paid a decade earlier.

1990s

The following claims are unsourced:

• In 1993 Benckiser merged into Coty its Quintessence Inc. unit, which it had acquired the previous year.
• Coty, Inc., grew into a US$1.5-billion-a-year company in 1996, when Benckiser made its Lancaster Group a Coty division. (The existing Coty, renamed Coty Beauty, became the other division.) Lancaster, founded in Monaco in 1946 and acquired from SmithKline Beecham plc in 1990.
• During the year of 1998, 45 percent of the company's sales were in mass fragrances, 24 percent in mass cosmetics, and 31 percent in prestige-market beauty products. Fifty-five percent of sales volume came from Western Europe and 30 percent from North America.

Recent history

• Unilever reportedly received a consideration of US$800 million in cash at the closing, with the opportunity for further deferred payments contingent upon future sales.
• The business included the perfume licenses for Calvin Klein, Cerruti, Vera Wang, Chloé and Lagerfeld, as well as a manufacturing and distribution center in Mount Olive, New Jersey, which was later closed in June 2007 as operations were transferred to the existing Coty-Sanford, North Carolina, facility.

With the removal of all this unsourced content, should the tag saying "This section does not cite any sources." be removed? Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns, here or on my user talk page. Thanks for help in advance. Inkian Jason (talk) 22:18, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Most of those things sound like facts that came from sources. I notice that an entire section starting from the 1930s was removed as a copyright violation (copied from the company's website). Any relevant facts (and I withhold opinion on those listed above) should be retained, particularly if they are uncontroversial, and sources should be found for them instead. ~Anachronist (talk) 23:15, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for replying, Anachronist. My goal in requesting removal of unsourced content was to clean up the article and address the tag, but I'll work to replace the unsourced content when I propose article improvements in future requests, if that's what you and other editors prefer. Inkian Jason (talk) 16:49, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

I think what Anachronist was saying was that in cases where the information concerns relevant facts (particularly if uncontroversial) his general preference is for them to be retained and sources to be sought first, rather than deleting them. .spintendo  04:16, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

Yes, but the key word is "relevant". We have to strike a balance between too much detail about run-of-the-mill business activities versus not enough detail about major milestones and events in the company's history. ~Anachronist (talk) 06:59, 1 June 2018 (UTC)

I removed the "edit request" template above and will work to source content in subsequent edit requests, as editors prefer not to remove unsourced content at this time. Thanks for the initial feedback. Inkian Jason (talk) 18:51, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Proposed infobox and introduction

Hello, I am back with an additional edit request, which I am submitting on behalf of Coty. Before I share specific article expansion suggestions, I'd like to start with some improvements for the infobox and introduction.

1. Currently, the infobox includes a few unsourced claims, so I've created a version with all available template fields, a list of brands wholly owned by the Coty, a source for the number of employees, and preferred formatting. Below is a rendering and markup for community review, including a note regarding inline citation formatting.

Infobox rendering

Coty, Inc. The company's logo Company type Public Traded as NYSE: COTY S&P 500 Index Industry Beauty Founded 1904 (1904) in Paris, France Headquarters New York City, New York , United States Area served Worldwide Key people Bart Becht (Chairman) Camillo Pane (CEO) Products Cosmetics fragrances hair care skin care Brands Bourjois Clairol CoverGirl ghd Max Factor OPI Rimmel Sally Hansen Wella Owners JAB Holding Company (37%) Number of employees 22,000 (2017) Website coty.com

References
References

Infobox markup

{{Infobox company | name = Coty, Inc. | logo = Coty Inc logo 2016.png | logo_size = | logo_alt = | logo_caption = The company's logo | logo_padding = | image = | image_size = | image_alt = | image_caption = | trading_name = | native_name = | native_name_lang = <!-- Use ISO 639-1 code, e.g. "fr" for French. For multiple names in different languages, use {{Lang|[code]|[name]}}. --> | romanized_name = | former_name = | type = [[Public company|Public]] | traded_as = {{NYSE|COTY}}<br>[[S&P 500 Index]]<ref name="Jumps">{{cite news|last1=Yuk|first1=Pan Kwan|title=Coty jumps on broker upgrade for cosmetics group|url=https://www.ft.com/content/ec234d64-4f92-11e7-a1f2-db19572361bb|accessdate=April 30, 2018|work=[[Financial Times]]|date=June 12, 2017|issn=0307-1766}}</ref> | ISIN = | ISIN2 = | industry = Beauty | genre = | fate = | predecessor = <!-- or: | predecessors = --> | successor = <!-- or: | successors = --> | founded = {{Start date and age|1904}} in [[Paris]], [[France]] | founder = <!-- or: | founders = --> | defunct = <!-- {{End date|YYYY|MM|DD}} --> | hq_location = | hq_location_city = [[New York City]], New York | hq_location_country = United States | num_locations = | num_locations_year = <!-- Year of num_locations data (if known) --> | area_served = Worldwide | key_people = {{Flatlist| * [[Bart Becht]] ([[Chairman]]) * Camillo Pane ([[Chief executive officer|CEO]]) }} | products = {{Flatlist| * [[Cosmetics]] * [[Aroma compound|fragrances]] * [[hair care]] * [[skin care]] }} | brands = {{Flatlist| * [[Bourjois]] * [[Clairol]] * [[CoverGirl]] * [[Good Hair Day|ghd]] * [[Max Factor]] * [[OPI Products|OPI]] * [[Rimmel]] * [[Sally Hansen]] * [[Wella]] }} | production = | production_year = <!-- Year of production data (if known) --> | services = | revenue = | revenue_year = <!-- Year of revenue data (if known) --> | operating_income = | income_year = | net_income = | net_income_year = | aum = <!-- Only for financial-service companies --> | assets = | assets_year = | equity = | equity_year = <!-- Year of equity data (if known) --> | owners = [[JAB Holding Company]] (37%) | members = | members_year = <!-- Year of members data (if known) --> | num_employees = 22,000<ref>https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1024305/000102430517000071/coty-063017x10k.htm</ref> | num_employees_year = 2017 | parent = | divisions = | subsid = | module = <!-- Used to embed other templates --> | ratio = <!-- Basel III ratio, for BANKS ONLY --> | rating = <!-- credit rating, for BANKS ONLY --> | website = {{URL|coty.com}} | footnotes = }}

Please note, the SEC filing already appears in the article as Reference #2. If duplicate references should be avoided, consider naming the existing reference "SEC" or similar, and adding adding "<ref name=SEC/>" to the infobox's number of employees field. If a formatted inline citation is preferred over the bare URL, consider:

• <ref name=SEC>{{Cite web|url=https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1024305/000102430517000071/coty-063017x10k.htm|title=Form 10-K: Coty Inc.|accessdate=June 7, 2018|date=June 30, 2017|publisher=[[U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission]]}}</ref>

Resolved

@Fylbecatulous: Thank you for reviewing this request and adding the proposed infobox. I am curious, do you have any thoughts on the proposed introduction below? Inkian Jason (talk) 20:01, 18 June 2018 (UTC)

2. Additionally, I'd like to propose a new, streamlined introduction:

Coty, Inc. is a multinational beauty company founded in 1904 by François Coty. It develops, manufactures, markets, and distributes fragrances, cosmetics, skin care, nail care, and both professional and retail hair care products. Coty owns around 77 brands, as of 2018.

Coty, Inc. is a multinational beauty company founded in 1904, in Paris, France, by François Coty. It develops, manufactures, markets, and distributes fragrances, cosmetics, skin care, nail care, and both professional and retail hair care products. Coty owns around 77 brands, as of 2018.

Coty, Inc., is an American beauty products manufacturer with operations in over 150 countries. Based in New York, the company was founded in Paris, France, by François Coty in 1904. It produces fragrances, color cosmetics, skin and body care products, and hair products. It is known for its cooperation with designers and celebrities for the creation of fragrances. Its biggest brands are CoverGirl, Max Factor, Rimmel, Sally Hansen, Adidas, Calvin Klein, Hugo Boss, Gucci, Burberry, and Wella Professionals, as well as Chloe (fragrance), Davidoff (fragrance), Marc Jacobs (fragrance), Philosophy (beauty), Playboy (fragrance), and OPI Products (beauty).

Here's why:

• describing the company as "multinational" is more appropriate than "American", since the company's key operations are not solely based in the US
• Coty has division headquarters in New York City, Geneva, and Paris, so mentioning only NYC does not seem appropriate
• in addition to manufacturing, the company develops, markets, and distributes a variety of beauty products; essentially, I'm trying to clarify that it is not just a manufacturer and give a brief overview of the major products it works on
• the list of brands is no longer entirely accurate (for example, Playboy has been sold), and some do not have Wikipedia articles of their own and therefore should probably not be included in an introduction
• in general, given the number of brands that Coty offers, I'd suggest it's best not to try to list in the introduction otherwise it becomes overwhelming and unencyclopedic, so I'm proposing a summary of the approximate current number
• this source and this source verify the 77 brands claim

I've been working to draft an expanded and improved article, which I will be sharing soon, but for now I'm seeking one or more editors to review and implement the proposed infobox and introduction appropriately. Thank you for any help in advance. Inkian Jason (talk) 16:58, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

@Anachronist: You've replied to both requests above, so I am wondering if you care to weigh in here as well. Thanks, Inkian Jason (talk) 20:43, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

Inkian Jason, hello, salutations. I have placed the existing introduction for comparison for me (minus the references which end up orphaned anyway on a talk page). I will absolutely place your introduction. I wish to leave in the site of the company founding ((in italics in your proposed text above)) and here's why :). François Coty's article says he was in France (throughout his life it seems) but "The company he founded in 1904 is now Coty, Inc., based in New York City". ..and he was a French perfumer. Either way, I will place for you. I almost would go ahead except I have another two remarks. I am rather bored by your foundational citations for the 77 brands and hope they don't need to be in the lede. Secondly, this entire venture is a tease since I have not seen any of your undisclosed draft, but I do trust you because you are an excellent and thorough writer and the short and direct introduction will blossom into supporting text and citations in your proposed article. And yes, the bare urls I will format, as and if we work along, because they are the worst offense against the MOS (and I do not even care about the MOS). Thank you for the ping and I consider the introduction change acceptable (France is only for clarity to me, since you are now multinational).. All the best, and let me know about the '77' sources in the introduction more so than the location of our perfumer. Fylbecatulous talk 21:26, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

@Fylbecatulous: Thank you for reviewing the proposed intro, and for your kind words about my writing. I am fine with keeping mention of Paris in the lead, and leaving out the citations for 77 brands, if that's your preference. Another option is to add the sources for now, so the claims are verifiable, then removing the citations from the lead once the article is expanded below. I will invite you to review updates to the article body as well, if you are interested. Thanks again for your help, and I look forward to seeing the intro updated. Inkian Jason (talk) 20:42, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

@Inkian Jason:, I have added your introduction exactly as you wrote and requested. I have added your one source but alas, The Financial Times article; all I can discern is a title banner: "Subscribe to the FT to read: Financial Times ECJ rules in favour of Coty over online sales ban". She is entirely behind a paywall (lowest trial is $1.00 for 4 weeks). If I keep peeking the price will increase just like shopping, lol...so I cannot verify that at all. Consider this good for now with one source and mark resolved as you wish. I will be interested in keeping on, now that we have begun. No rush. Again, my pleasure and see you soon. Addendum: I was going to format those bare urls (now #19, #20, #21 and #22), but they are all stark primary sources, that when formatted all say: "Coty - in the news") Fylbecatulous talk 23:49, 20 June 2018 (UTC)

Thank you for your help, and for updating the introduction. I will be sharing more article improvements in the near future. Inkian Jason (talk) 14:57, 21 June 2018 (UTC)

Logo

@Fylbecatulous: I am still working on the full draft, which I plant to share soon, but in the meantime, would you mind reverting this change so the red link does not appear in the infobox? I'd prefer not to edit the main space directly because of my COI. Thanks. Inkian Jason (talk) 15:33, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

Y. @Inkian Jason:, Surely. Happy to help. Thanks for ping. Fylbecatulous talk 21:01, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for your help. Inkian Jason (talk) 15:38, 19 September 2018 (UTC)