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WikiProject class rating

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This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 11:06, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Cardinal" in the lead

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I have (once more) removed the title "Cardinal" from the lead. This, I believe, is as per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Western clergy):

cardinals generally go by their full name (both first name and surname) alone, without the title "Cardinal", as "Ascanio Sforza", not "Cardinal Ascanio Sforza", nor "Ascanio Cardinal Sforza". Exceptions are cardinals who are identifiable only by the cardinalitial title (as in the case of a hypothetical Cardinal John Smith), those best known by the title "Cardinal" followed by a surname (as Cardinal Richelieu), and those of the period before the introduction of surnames. [and so on]

So it actually tells not to use Cardinal unless the person is only indentifiable as such etc. Moreover, the article Cardinal (Catholicism) compares the style "Cardinal John Doe" to such styles as "President George W. Bush", and "John Card. Doe" to "Benedictus P.P. XVI", and these are style we do not use in Wikipedia. Goochelaar (talk) 10:53, 2 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Wikipedia Naming conventions are quite inconclusive about the use of the title "Cardinal" in the text. Okay, it is clear about not to put the title in the article name itself, but it doesn't say anything about the usage in the person's name in the initial sentence. The question is, should we see "Cardinal" as title or honorifics like "Sheik", "Pope", "Baron" or "Sir", which are included into the name of the person (sometimes only initial sentence but not always in the article name as well) or do we have to see it as a designation, like "president" (which is of course not included in the name)? Or should we see it as a ranking, like "General" or "Admiral", which are quite common put in front of the person's name in the initial sentence, although not bold (since a ranking is not part of the name)? Regarding these facts, I don't think it would be ridiculous to put the title in front of the person's name in the initial sentence, especially since the Wikipedia Naming conventions do not prohibit that. But first we should now more about the customs and rules about the title in the general world. Demophon (talk) 12:12, 2 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]
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