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Archive 1

2013 Statistics

Hey! How and Where can I update the statistics? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.195.13.29 (talk) 17:40, 6 January 2014 (UTC)

Sources

It is time for Germany to have a National CENSUS as the U.S.A. and any country of the World has, instead of Estimates which are not accurate... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.146.211.237 (talk) 16:10, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

And the 16 million of non-German heritage is ridiculous, more taking into account that they add "including those mixed with German" so it means they are at least half German ethnically. Anyway, during the Middle Age dozens of slav tribes from Central Europe (including Prussians) were assimilated into the German tribe, so if the author pretends to say that Germans are not Germans he could add "100% of Germans are mixed with other peoples (latins from Rome, slavs from Prussia, askanazy jews, mongols from Attila to Genghis Khan...) Ridiculous, because they integrate and are assimilated the same way as the hundreds of thousands from the Visigoth and Swabian tribes who were assimilated by the Ibero-celt majority in Spain during the V-VII centuries. 100% of Spaniards have Germanic ancestors from those Barbarian invasions of the Roman Empire...and? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.146.211.237 (talk) 16:16, 8 August 2008 (UTC)


Hindus in Germany :: PLEASE CHECK FACTS!!!

Demographics of Germany says:-
Germans 91.5%, Turks 2.4%, other 6.1% (made up largely of Serbs, Croats, Italians, Russians, Greeks, Poles, Spaniards, Albanians).
Hindu 32.1%, Lutheran 31.8%, Muslim 4.5%, Jewish 0.1%, unaffiliated or other 31.5% (2002)

If so, then a great lot of white native Germans would have converted to Hinduism!!!!!!!!!! Anthony Appleyard 19:02, 26 July 2005 (UTC) It is Catholics, 32.1%

Maybe they secretly converted to Hinduism but didn't tell anybody! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.197.6.243 (talk) 00:06, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

major cities

Added major cities with nationalies: Not sure if it is presented the right way but it is an important factor for the Demographics of Germany.

Feb 2006

The way the article focuses on cities isnt right! this surely needs some more explanation from other articles. 70.23.114.215 11:13, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Biggest Cities

Cologne itself has got a number slightly below 1,000,000 inhabitants. You can get only 11,000,00 if you include the whole Ruhr Area, to which Cologne doesn't really belong. I'll change the name to Ruhr Area/Cologne-Agglomeration, although I think, this isn't the best way to do it.


Hamburg actually doesnt have 4 million citizens, more like 2 million. Something about 4,5 Million People are living in the whole "Grossraum Hamburg" which means the suburban areas which border around the city of hamburg in the north and in the south as well as the area of the city of hamburg itself.

Berlin: Eastern European Lifestyle

Just what exactly should this mean? Compare Berlin to Prague, Bratislava, Budapest, even Vienna. I can see no distinct Eastern trait. If you were to classify Berlin lifestyle, what comes to mind is "cosmopolitic" or "diverse". Whereas in some parts of (former) East Berlin, you might indeed encounter post-soviet subculture similar to Eastern European metropoles, Berlin is also influenced by immigrants from all over the world and general "Big City" style (like New York, London, Amsterdam, Paris, generalizing). Compared to other major German cities like Hamburg or Munich, Berlin lifestyle is the least homogeneous and most diverse. You might characterize Berlin as the German "city that never sleeps". If Hamburg is Germany's London (as the Hamburgers wish they were), then Berlin is Germany's New York. (as especially the young Berliners wish)
This should be changed to "...reputation for a cosmopolitic (or diverse) lifestyle". -- megA 11:34, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


BTW: In fact the percentage of immigrants in the total population of Hamburg ( habour town ) and Frankfurt ( biggest airport in Germany ) is higher than in Berlin! --Sushi Leone 11:28, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
calling Berlin the German 'the city that never sleeps' doesnt do the city justice and only subordinates it to New York - to which Berlin does have metropolitan similarities but those would better related to Berlin's 'rough' image (i.e. architecture, radicalism in various forms, etc.). I do believe a stronger socialist/'Eastern European' culture and society is a strong characteristic of Berlin (when comparing with other metropolitan areas in Germany or Europe): take the history of Berlin alone (the history of Prussia, the massive load of the Nazi past, the GDR past, etc.). Even former West-Berlin (1950s until 1989/90) was a city marked by groups questioning the 'western' establishment? For the time since then take the social and political transformation the city went through, no other German city had that and I would call it a strong element of Berlin... the stronger representation of left wing parties, high unemployment rates, buisness culture/buisness power as well as social culture compared to Dusseldorf, Frankfurt or Munich, - not least the high number of Eastern European immigrants (first of all the number of Russians and Eastern European Jews) living in Berlin. Bottom line is that Berlin does have more relations to Germany's Eastern neighbors than any other major city in Germany, and it does so to an extend that i would call Eastern European? 65.9.55.103 (talk) 11:30, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Map request

I was looking for a population density map of the country. -- Beland 02:23, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Leipzig and Art Noveau

[Leipzig] sports Europe's highest density of Art Nouveau architecture.

Any sources? I believe that Budapest has far more Art Nouveau buildings than Leipzig. -- megA 14:42, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Immigration

The graph next to the immigration section is in german. This should probably be changed. Harley peters 23:23, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

"informations" about the cities

pleasy, could someone whose english is good enough to edit articles correct some of the statements about the cities (or, maybe the whole description row should be deleted). some thinks are strange (hamburg most anglo-saxon city?), some are plain wrong (leipzig's growing economy – very good joke, really), and others not really suitable for an encyclopedia (frankfurt boring). and, btw, bavarians aren't regarded as "ethnic group"... --VonKorf 07:16, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

No mention of Latin Americans in Germany

I want to make note on the article's immigrant nationality list has not mentioned Germany's sizable Latin American community, an estimated 20,000 reported in the German census (sorry I don't have the sources), but from original research and love to find data to confirm what I know on the subject. In both former East and West, Argentines, Brazilians, Chileans and Uruguayans are said the most numerous, many of them had German ancestry, and mostly composed of political refugees in the late 20th century. Just a suggestion to include Latin Americans, because the 21st century Germany is becoming racially/culturally diverse like the U.S. + Mike D 26 10:29, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

If most of them are, as you claim, of German ancestry, there is a good chance that that they regained German nationality on the point of their return(if they ever gave it up), and the immigrant stastitics you refer to, only list foreign nationals. Thats probably why they are not included. Jonas78 01:06, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Foreigners are not counted by the continent (region) they are from, but by their country/nationality (so in the statistic their are no latin americans cause that's not a country/nationality) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.164.225.232 (talk) 15:17, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Rename from demographics to demography

Please see Talk:Demography/Archives/2012#Demographics_vs_demography_confusion and comment.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk  19:32, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Kurds

In the table "Nationalities in Germany" 500,000 Kurds are listed. Apart from the fact that there is no recognized Kurdish state, all the other listings are from the German statistics office and collected according to national citizenship. Kurds of foreign nationality will have entered the statistics as Turkish, Irak... citizens, and therefore added twice to this list. Could someone take the Kurds out of the table I am afraid I am going to mess it up. That there is an important Kurdish presence in Germany should be mentioned somewhere else. Jonas78 01:23, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

"Largest German/Non-German Ethnic Groups"

These two columns in the "Metropolitan Areas" table look like a battlefield. Could someone with a clear undestanding of what they are for please rework them? -- megA 14:40, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

The table seems to list mainly "regional origins" but not ethnic groups(Hamburger, Leipziger ... are not an ethnic group). There is also no consistancy(sometimes German turks(Berlin) or just turks(Hamburg). I would reorganize it but don't know if the purpose of the table is to show actually "ethnic groups in each region" or "regional origins in each region" ?! -- Stan talk 15:07, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Yes, this very questionable distinction into "ethnic groups" still exists in the year 2010... Last time, that I was asked to define my tribe as German, was in a hostel Tanzania. Anyway, that doesn't make sense anymore, neither in these stzatistics, nor in reports about so called tribe-leaders in Afganistan or elsewhere... 87.79.159.40 (talk) 04:09, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Misleading in "Major metropolitan areas"

Under the “Berlin/Brandenburg Metropolitan Region”, Berlin is claimed to be the largest. While it is true that Berlin is the largest city, from this very document, it is obvious that it isn't the largest "Metropolitan Region", but the fourth. Does is this a misleading or unclear design and arrangement, or am I being obtuse?

Omkelly (talk) 07:51, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

Nothing about Jugendamt

Jugendamt is a highly controversial institution-it was criticised by minorities in Germany, United Nations, European Comission. There should be a chapter on it.--Molobo (talk) 18:31, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

See Children and Family Court Advisory and Support Service in Britain. Controversies about children support services exist everywhere. This is not a specifically German phenomenon. -- megA (talk) 12:48, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Yes but the article is not about Britain but about Germany. The aspect here is that it is criticised by UN, European Comission, and minority organisations. This is notable.--Molobo (talk) 18:49, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
And how would it be relevant in an article about demographics? -- megA (talk) 11:34, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Census in Germany

This article should be linked (and expanded). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 18:46, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Done.-- Matthead  Discuß   02:45, 18 July 2009 (UTC)

Russian-speakers

I changed "more than half of the Germans in the East learned Russian at school, but only few people can speak it" to "more than half of the Germans in the East learned Russian at school", because I am from Germany and I know few people who learned Russian in school, yet are not able to communicate in it.-- 212.201.82.76 (talk) 18:23, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Ethnic german immigrants?

Couple questions. Would someone born in Germany to ethnic German parents who came to germany after WWII be considered to be of immigrant background? Second, when it says "In 2008 18.4% of Germans of any age group and 30% of German children had at least one parent born abroad" does German mean just citizens or all residents? KingOfAfrica (talk) 04:36, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Yes, ethnic German immigrants would considered to have an "immigrant background". Also "ethnic German immergrants" often will not be considered "ethnic Germans". If they have German roots, but do speak Russian at home, in educational statistics they often will be considered "Russian speaking" instead of "German". We do have a lot of people of German parentage, who do not speak German in Germany. I think to be considere "of ethnic German parentage" a person needs to have just one German grandparent. So if a family comes to Germany, has one German grandparent, but speaks Russian, they will be considered of "ethnic German parentage", but they often will not be called "ethnic German", but "russian speaking minority" instead in some statistics.
Second, when it says "In 2008 18.4% of Germans of any age group and 30% of German children had at least one parent born abroad" does German mean just citizens or all residents? Of all residents of Germany.-- Greatgreenwhale (talk) 08:07, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Whether ethnic Germans and their descendants are considered as being of immigrant background also depends on when they came to the current territory of Germany. Only immigrants that came after 1949 fall within the definition, i.e. most of the ethnic German refugees due to the expulsions after WWII do not qualify, since they mainly arrived in the years 1945-1949. Levimanthys (talk) 22:01, 30 November 2014 (UTC)

image of Population Pyramid Germany Year 2000

It's the year 2010 CE, and ten years have passed since the data has been made since 2000, the age demographics would have shifted up to ten years. Could do with an update. Thanks.

The link for the reference cited in the claim that 10% of German citizens are of immigrant or partial immigrant background no longer points to the intended source material.

88.105.32.6 (talk) 08:33, 14 July 2010 (UTC)

Largest non-German ethnic groups

This category is a bit misleading, for instance, there are far more Israelis and Americans in Berlin than Dutchmen. Additionally, Pakistanis and Iranians aren't mentioned in the Berlin category, but they are listed in the Leipzig one, although Leipzig has a rather insignificant Iranian community compared to Berlin or Hamburg. Furthermore, i would add that Frankfurt is considered as the most 'international' German city and Berlin as the most ethnically diverse and multicultural city (about 20 non-indigenous communities with each 10,000 people.)--188.102.171.116 (talk) 20:24, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

The whole column is completely unsourced (what does "largest groups" mean anyway?) and should be removed. By the way, "considered" is a so-called weasel word that shouldn't be used unless backed up with sources. -- megA (talk) 14:21, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Huge table in the middle of the article

There is now a cumbersome table ("vital statistics") right in the middle of the article. Is it possible to "fold" it so that who is interested might "open" it and it would be easier to skip for those who just want to read further down? Or should it be outsourced into another article? This article is large enough anyway (59 kB)... -- megA (talk) 14:23, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

OK, I was bold now and made it collapsed. (After I found out how) -- megA (talk) 10:41, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Ethnic groups

I added some new references (regarding numbers of different Ethnic gropus in Germany) , because of too many missing citations. I'd really appreciate it, if anyone would be so kind to continue improving this category. --Herra660 (talk) 14:39, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

I have updated the article using the 2012 federal migration report, released on the 15th of January 2014. --Sdg198 (talk) 22:11, 01 February 2014 (UTC)

Ethnic German?

OK, so I noticed "German citizens" in "Ethnic groups" section. Citizenship is related but not equal to ethnicity. Where is mention made of "ethnic Germans" as a percentage of German residents and/or citizens? I don't see it. Is "Germans of no immigrant background" synonymous with "ethnic Germans"?

In fact, it seems the most of the section deals with nationality, which is again related but not equal to ethnicity. American, for instance, is not an ethnicity but a nationality, unless it is referring to Native American, and I doubt there are 99,000 Native Americans in Germany. If these numbers do indeed refer to nationalities, I think they should be moved to the immigration section. Int21h (talk) 04:26, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

More confusion in the "Ethnic Groups" section...

German citizens = (92%)

Germans of no immigrant background: (81%) 66.7 million
German citizens of immigrant background (including people of partial immigrant background.): (10%)

Foreigners: (8%)

Turkish = (2.1%) 1,713,551 ; including those with German citizenship and ancestral background almost (5%)= 4,000,000

These figures count German citizens with "ancestral (Turkish) background" twice. German citizens aren't foreigners by definition. (except in the eyes of the NPD, probably) Furthermore, no figures for "German citizens with ancestral backgrounds" among the other "foreign" groups (Italians, etc.) are given. This section needs a thorough cleanup, IMNSHO. -- megA (talk) 14:34, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

EDIT: I just noticed that the statement about the 4 million is plainly not in the citation given, which reads: "Germany, that used to have up to 4 million Turkish guest workers...", which obviously means something completely different. Changed. -- megA (talk) 14:38, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

I also noticed that the numbers do not add up. 2,1 millions + 6,7 millions is not 8 millions. I'll delete that and give some better numbers from a official source (Bundeszentrale für politische Bildung).-- Greatgreenwhale (talk) 08:51, 18 September 2011 (UTC)


Roma

Ich changed the section about the Roma, because the German government does keep statistics on ethnicity ("immigration background"...). It just counts the Roma as Germans without immigration background if they have been living there for generations and the Roma, who moved to Germany as "ethnic Yugoslawians" (or whereever they may be from).--Greatgreenwhale (talk) 06:35, 25 September 2011 (UTC)

AFAIK, Yugoslavia didn't exist in the 15th century. ;-) Ironically (for white supremacists), they are ethnic Aryans, because that's where they come from. -- megA (talk) 08:43, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
AFAIK nobody here claimed it did ;-) I just said, that the Roma, who moved to Germany from Yugoslavia (and many did) or who have parents, who moved from Yugoslavia to Germany where counted as "Yugoslavians", not Roma. That is why Roma usually do not turn up in that statistic on ethnicity. It was however wrong to claim that the German governmentdoes not keep statistics on ethnicity as the article did before.--Greatgreenwhale (talk) 14:03, 26 September 2011 (UTC)
Yes, but in the 15th century, when the Roma immigrated to Germany, Yugoslavia (as well as Hungary and Czechoslovakia which were also immigration routes) didn't exist. As a matter of fact, neither did Germany...
Bottom line: You are confounding citizenship and ethnicity. Roma are ethnic Roma. You may call them ethnic Indians, because that's where they come from. Serbs, Croats and Bosniaks would be "ethnic Yugoslavian" (if there was such a thing, which obviously isn't, because Yugoslavia was a state, not an ethnicity.) If a Han Chinese family lives for some time in Serbia and then moves to Germany, that doesn't make them "ethnic Yugoslavian". They are still Han Chinese. -- megA (talk) 20:41, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

TURKS AND AUSTRALIANS Most Turks are ASIAN, not European as you can see in any World map. Ethnically, they are mixed Eurasians as their language comes from Mongolia but for centuries Turks mixed with Europeans. Anyway, Turks should be counted as mixed Eurasians.

On the other side, most Australians and Americans in Germany are ethnically European.--79.146.37.176 (talk) 01:47, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

"Ethnic Germans" in Migrant background section

Replacement of Ethnic Germans with Germans is understandable. The official institutions in Germany, which are collecting data on ethnic background recognize as "German" anyone who was born/came before 1955 in/to Germany. Ethnic Germans is an unappropriate term here, since Russian Germans, Kazakh Germans, etc. are also considered Ethnic Germans (are even mentioned in the brackets of some categories), but not as such by the German institutions.

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Person with migrant background

ok,just for example,If there was a man who was of Turkish origin,And his parents were German citizens when he was born, but his grandparents were immigrants and arrived now Germany after 1955（Typical guest workers like many others), here is the question,would this gay or others like him be count as a man with Migrant background? or not? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nero011 (talk • contribs) 10:38, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Short answer: possibly.
Long answer:
I am not a lawyer, but this is how I understand the statement from the Statistics Office:
Let's try formatting the statement:
The Federal Statistical Office defines persons with a migrant background as
  • "all persons who migrated to the present area of the Federal Republic of Germany after 1949, plus
  • all foreign nationals born in Germany and
  • all persons born in Germany as German nationals with at least one parent who
    • migrated to Germany or
    • was born in Germany as a foreign national."
Did your guy migrate to the present area of the Federal Republic of Germany after 1949? No.
Is he a foreign national born in Germany? No.
Did either of his parents migrate to Germany? No.
Was either of his parents born in Germany as a foreign national: Possibly.
As I understand it, the last point depends on whether his grandparents had German nationality when his parents were born (assuming they were born before 2000).
I don't know of a reliable source that would explain the situation clearly in a way that we could use in the article without original research.
--Boson (talk) 16:05, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

So,is that means the true Percentage of persons with Turkish(or other groups)ethnicity may be Higher than that on the form? and in the old German immigration law（mainly in 1960s-1990s),would government give the descendants of immigrants born in Germany a german citizenship? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nero011 (talk • contribs) 11:22, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

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Poles as a minority

Poles were considered to be a minority even in Nazi Germany (till 1939/1940). Now Germany doesn't accept minority rights for Poles. [1] Xx236 (talk) 10:01, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Lead

The lead section is very confusing. It keeps jumping back and forth in the census timeline from sentence to sentence: 2011 ... 2014 ... 2010 ... 2011 ... 2008 ... 2011

Isn't there a better (more chronological) way of presenting these numbers? --93.212.230.88 (talk) 14:24, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Low German vs. Low Saxon

In some places, the article uses the term Low German, in others, it says Low Saxon. This should be harmonized since we are talking about the same language here. I would suggest we use "Low German" ("Plattdeutsch") throughout this article because this is a Germany-focussed article, and "Low Saxon" ("Nedersaksisch") seems to be more of a term used in the Netherlands. Also, it might lead to confusion with the adjective referring to the state or the inhabitants of Lower Saxony. --93.212.230.88 (talk) 14:35, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Just adding: The Dutch article Nedersaksisch links to West Low German so we should be even more careful not to confuse things here. "Low German" seems to be the least ambiguous solution. --93.212.230.88 (talk) 14:50, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

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2016 Migrant Background table errors

For instance it has Polish people at 2.85 million when there are actually 1.868 million. Some data is correct though, Turkish people for instance. Don't have the energy to fix it myself unfortunately.

Sources:

https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/MigrantStatusSelectedCountries.html

https://www.destatis.de/EN/FactsFigures/SocietyState/Population/MigrationIntegration/Tables_PersonsMigrationBackground/MigrantStatusGroupsOfCountries.html

Lojalist (talk) 19:59, 4 March 2018 (UTC)

2016 table errors

so uh, the table adds up to a little under 100.7%

someone should probably fix that

Acolossus | Talk | Contributions 21:56, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Classification of ethnic German repatriates - mistakes in the table on population composition

I have briefed a document with current immigrant population statistics. It seems to me that, given how they classify ethnic German repatriates, they actually include them in the overall populations from a given country. So the numbers cited in the table with immigrant backgrounds (for example, Russian (excluding ethnic German repatriates, 1381k) actually DO include German expatriates. There is no way there are so many ethnic Russians or ethnic Romanians in Germany - most of the people from these countries are ethnic German repatriates. The population statistics do not unfortunately separate repatriates from ethnic Russians and Romanians etc. so it is impossible to get exact numbers of ethnic Russians, Romanians, Poles who are NOT repatriates - at least from documents officially posted by the statistical office. I am leaving it here because I do not actually speak German (I used google translate) so a German speaker should verify it. Link to the most recent statistics: Bevölkerung mit Migrationshintergrund – Ergebnisse des Mikrozensus 2019

Poverty

This line, "Germany is a broadly middle-class society. However, there has been a strong increase in the number of children living in poverty. In 1965, one in 75 children was on the welfare rolls; but by 2007 this had increased to one child in six", in the lead is questionable. It seems to imply expansion of welfare equals an increase in poverty. If all welfare schemes were abolished, would poverty be eliminated? Hrodvarsson (talk) 22:57, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Declined

Hi. The infobox says that Germany's 2020 population has declined. Then later in the article is says its increased. Which is fake news???129.127.32.139 (talk) 07:56, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

English

This article about Germany could use some help from someone who speaks English. I can't interpret a lot of the statistics because of the Engrish.

Immigrants in Germany

In the table of foreign nationals I believe that the Czechs and Kazakhs are missing. Furthermore, I believe that there are many more Russians and Poles (including among these the repatriated Germans).

Semi-protected edit request on 23 August 2022

Change "Dutch is taught in states bordering the Netherlands, and Polish in the eastern states bordering Poland.[citation needed]" to "Dutch is taught in states bordering the Netherlands, and Polish in the eastern states bordering Poland.[1][2]

Berlinnlp (talk) 21:03, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Other wikis are not reliable sources. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:11, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niederl%C3%A4ndischunterricht_in_Deutschland
  2. ^ https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polnischunterricht_in_Deutschland
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