|This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Digital Spy article.|
|Please be calm and civil when you make comments or when you present evidence, and avoid personal attacks. Please be patient as we work toward resolution of the issues in a peaceful, respectful manner.|
|WikiProject Journalism||(Rated Stub-class, Low-importance)|
|WikiProject Internet culture||(Rated Stub-class, Low-importance)|
|This topic contains controversial issues, some of which have reached a consensus for approach and neutrality, and some of which may be disputed. Before making any potentially controversial changes to the article, please carefully read the discussion-page dialogue to see if the issue has been raised before, and ensure that your edit meets all of Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Please also ensure you use an accurate and concise edit summary.|
- 1 GaySpy
- 2 Media Coverage/Citations
- 3 The Forums
- 4 References Question
- 5 Sources
- 6 POV?
- 7 Copyright violation
- 8 Digital Spy Big Brother 2007 thread section
- 9 Stormfront
- 10 Question
- 11 Citations!
- 12 Citations!(2)
- 13 Citations!(3)
- 14 Criticism sections/"DS"
- 15 Nobody's ever suggested that this might be non-notable?
- 16 Rumours of involvement with BNP
- 17 Controversy over forum moderation
- 18 Unfortunately there is no way to document moderation issues
- 19 User Alanjay - Conflict of interest
- 20 Dubious
- 21 Banned Users
- 22 It would be a window into the moderation policy
- 23 Digital Spy Forum Statistics
- 24 Viruses on site
- 25 US Edition
- 26 Use of digital spy quotes for other Wikipedia pages?
- 27 Soap Awards
- 28 Website Layout
- 29 2013 changes
- 30 Controversy Over Moderation Continues
- 31 Italics
And this is of what importance to this article considering that the other sections have not rated more than a mention let alone their own section, the paragraph reads like one of the overly-positive press releases DS so loves to copy and paste as news (complete with weasel words) and the references point straight back to Digital Spy.
So I've deleted it. Ramore
And while I'm at it, I've removed the "Media Coverage" section because the citation flags have been there for months yet no-one has thought to cite their sources for any of the claims made (clue: there aren't any) and so the whole paragraph is just one big advert, and I've tidied up the DS:BB section to remove the sentence that required a source that has not been forthcoming. Ramore
In 2004 a sub-forum was added to General Discussion called Chatter, for less serious topics. Chatter was once full of gaming threads such as 'word association' and such posts were banned because they took up precious server space. However, this restriction was lifted on the 16th of March 2006 after server upgrades.
On the 9th of April 2006, a few changes were made. 'Print Media' and 'Books' forums were added. Posts in General Discussion now contribute to a user's post count. Also, on the 30 April 2006, a World Cup 2006 forum was added. On the 10 June, this was changed to a Sports forum, with a dedicated Football sub-forum
I say this should be removed because
- 1. DS has gone through many forum changes over the years - yet only these ones are listed
- 2. They are only regarding General Discussion forums, and not even the main digital ones
- 3. 'Tis unencyclopediaic
There is a request for a citation that Sky post to the forums - not sure how to prove this other than they have a number of accounts which they have asked the forum moderators to set up for them and looking at the forums it is quite obvious this is tread and a number of similar ones - http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=595184
Anyone know what the a b c links are in Reference 1, they don't seem to do anything.
Were they links to a section that is no longer part of the article?
pjb007 15:29, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
- They are links to the three instances of that reference. See the little superscript  that appears throughout the article. The a,b,c jumps the page to those sections but on such a short article they all appear in screen at the same time so it's not as obvious that they are jumping to those sections Ydam 15:34, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
- Could someone please provide some reliable independent sources regarding this forum? Wickethewok 20:50, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- A Google search brings up no hits , the only thing I can find are stats on the forums from Big Boards . There is actually quite a bit there that could be added to the article. --tgheretford (talk) 21:10, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
- If there are no proper independent sources for this website then why does it have an entry? Free advertising perhaps? 220.127.116.11 18:11, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
- Not exactly difficult to provide sources - it is one of (if not the) largest TV/media sites in the UK. A simply search on BBC's website provides numerous mentions SFC9394 18:33, 18 November 2006 (UTC):
 Included alongside traditional media reviews of a TV show
 attributed source for a quote from a music story from September this year.
 80 mentions on BBC News website, mostly as Related Internet Links.
In relation to this quote:
|“||The site has come under criticism from its users for being sometimes heavy handed, and refusing to discuss bans of members on the boards.||”|
- I would also say the same for the additions made to the article on January 20 2006. If the criticisms cannot be backed up with a reliable source (not from a forum, as per WP:RS), they should be removed. --tgheretford (talk) 01:52, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
I understand your point about citations being needed. However, I would take issue with you over citations not being allowed from forums as per WP:RS. This only recomends that forums are not used as citations. Since this section of the article is concerned with the feeling of Digital Spy members and about how moderation decisions are made, the use of forum content is the best and only available source of a citation. On this basis, I will attempt update the section with reference to the forum content Munta 02:09, 21 January 2007 (UTC)Munta
The fact that the links I included to cite this this paragraph have now been removed on the Digital Spy site only goes to highlight that Digital Spy do not wish to have any critism levelled at their moderation style. This ultimately goes against the ethos of wiki in that the owners of Digital Spy have complete control over censorship of the Digital Spy entry. I have replaced the text deleted by 18.104.22.168 with extra information about the deleted content. Any sugestion about methods of citing this content would be appreciated Munta 18:10, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
- The only thing I could find was from a blog (could violate WP:RS?): http://if.futurescape.co.uk/2005/07/big_brother_for.html which features a small bit about the concerns you placed in the article. --tgheretford (talk) 19:03, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
- I'd just like to say, a lot of banned people on the site have a track record of re-registering. For all we know, all the members in the cached versions of the threads could be the same person with a grudge. Marks87 11:59, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
- Alanjay (talk) 23:42, 8 January 2008 (UTC)To add to the above I know that a number of disgruntled users who have been banned either try to re-register or then use this page to take out their frustration. The Digital Spy forum usage terms do not allow multiple registrations nor disresprcful behaviour and often people who complain have fallen foul of these rules so look for places like this to pitch their perspective.
I removed some text as per WP:COPYVIO from the DS:BB section (diff) which was directly copied from a copyright page: http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/about/a41859/digital-spys-best-ever-figures.html. --tgheretford (talk) 01:47, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Digital Spy Big Brother 2007 thread section
I removed the Digital Spy Big Brother 2007 section from the article (diff) because for the following reasons:
- The thread is nowhere near notable enough to have its own section, let alone article within Wikipedia.
- The people involved in the thread do not meet the notability guidelines.
- There is no verifiable third party sources to establish the threads importance, i.e. news reports by third party sources like the BBC or The Times for example (note: the thread itself is NOT a reliable source).
- The section violates WP:NOT#PUBLISHER, most of the section reassembles a news report for the aforementioned thread.
If it keeps being added back, I will have no qualms to ask for the article to be semi-protected unless anyone can provide an answer to my concerns outlined above. --tgheretford (talk) 18:43, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
- I removed a similar entry as Wikipedia is not the place to include information about transient threads on a forum and for the reasons you gave above. If it were an "offical" DS competion then there may be some basis for its inclusion but even then I would have some doubt about its suitability. I would support any protection placed on this entry if required. Munta 19:58, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
Was this an "official" campaign endorsed by the site, or was it simply a couple of posters deciding to try and defend (what is in my opinion) the indefensible? Either way, is it really worthy of a mention in the article? Marks87 18:31, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
- I just removed it - it is unsourced and speculative - not what an encyclopaedic article is supposed to be. The amount of racist trolling on the forums certainly increased during big brother but I don't know (and I imagine it wouldn't be easy to prove) exactly where they all came from or if they were part of an organised campaign. If we can get some sources for it then it could be included (because if it did happen as an organised concerted action then it is worthy of mention), but that proof and sources is a different issue - speculation on a forum is miles away from something being a fact. SFC9394 20:10, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
- I have to agree with what SFC9394 has to say and the removal of the unsourced section. I suspect, that considering that there won't be an news or major article for Digital Spy that could be used as a reliable source (remember, WP:RS states that threads on forums are not reliable sources) that it couldn't be included in the article. --tgheretford (talk) 21:08, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
- I can confirm that Stormfront forums did have posts requesting that people registered on DS to stir up touble and some did gloat about how they were banned and re-registered. However, I have no wish to revisit the Stormfront website for evidence of this. Ultimately though I would not be for this inclusion (although not due to forums being unreliable sources), I just don't think this has any relivance to the DS website since all forums are going to have "undesirable members". Munta 18:36, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
Hey should it not be noted how poorly run the forums are and the fact they ban people for no reason? Like overclockers.Jimmy93211 16:14, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
- Its already mentioned in the Introduction Munta 18:38, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
- At least it was til earlier today when that section was removed. Munta 14:06, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I have removed all of those 'citation needed' markers under the 'Media coverage' sections, because I genuinely believe they are not needed. They are widely acknowledged by people in the relevant areas (ie. LBC Radio/Big Brother contestants mentioning DS) and just do not require a backup for each one!
I have re-added the citation needed markers. Please show where they are acknowledged by people in the relevant areas, otherwise all that has been put into the article could simply be made up, Wikipedia is not the place for unsubstantiated claims. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 21:47, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
- I have a horrible feeling that most of the information can only be found on Digital Spy forum threads and not verified by a third party, violating WP:RS and in turn WP:V. Just to note from verifiability policy that forum threads, being self-published sources, are not reliable sources of information (ie. anyone could write anything in a post). If it is not verified or references from reliable third party sources cannot be found, you can, as stated within verifiability policy, challenge (which you have done so now) and remove the unreferenced information from the article (which you should do within a convenient time period - give enough time for people to add citations, if they can find them). Because of the number of citation required tags within the article, I will tag the article accordingly. --tgheretford (talk) 22:06, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Citations should just not be needed for such things, as they are widely known common knowledge to the DS community (and more)! The only things requiring citations should be things which could factually be disputed. It's like citing that the Earth revolves around the Sun - plain stupidity.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Dvmedis (talk • contribs) 22:28, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
- The fact that someone has placed the tag on the page is that they dispute the majority of the page, in that the information needs to be verified by a third party, regardless if it is truthful or not to the DS community or wider. What can be referenced in the article should be because the next time that or another editor may read the article and see that the article is still unreferenced, they can, in good faith, remove text or even nominate the article for deletion. Just to clarify, when you submit work to Wikipedia, one of the conditions of doing so is that the text you write is verifiable by third party sources, not just truthful.
To quote from the verifiability policy:
|“||Articles should only contain material that has been published by reliable sources. Editors adding or restoring material that has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, or quotations, must provide a reliable published source, or the material may be removed.||”|
I noticed that a criticism section of the administrators within Digital Spy is being added regularly. Without references to verify the information added, it violates WP:V and WP:NPOV and unreferenced material should be removed, especially when it involves individuals (see WP:BLP).
As for the "DS" in the introduction, I decided to add it back as it is a well used abbreviation of Digital Spy in both first and third party sources. --tgheretford (talk) 17:11, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
Nobody's ever suggested that this might be non-notable?
- What about the BBC for starters? . Or AOL?  Yes I agree, there is a need for more third party sources for this article, and I fear that what I have found so far via Google is blogs (not acceptable for sources), first party sources and products not associated with the topic of the article. --tgheretford (talk) 17:16, 31 December 2007 (UTC)
Rumours of involvement with BNP
As I believe the Flickr source is self-published, I've removed the text, especially considering as it is potentially controversial, it really needs good third party sources to back this up (from reputable published newspapers for example) hence why I have removed the text as per WP:REDFLAG and WP:V (see also Wikipedia:Fringe theories. --tgheretford (talk) 21:18, 1 January 2008 (UTC)
Controversy over forum moderation
I have noticed more edits are being added regarding the moderation of Digital Spy. This includes this recent edit: . However, no editor has added verifiable citations from third-party sources to back up these edits. The edits have also, in my opinion, been lopsided towards the controversial issue of forum moderation without adding third-party references to the reaction from Digital Spy moderators to the accusations over the moderation of the forum.
I agree with another editor further up this page with regards to (former?) forum members who are using this forum for their sound bytes for the moderation of Digital Spy away from the website where from personal experience, moderators do close and delete threads which attack the way that the forums are moderated. That is fair enough, as on Wikipedia, we have a similar official policy which advises editors not to attack other editors, and offending material can be deleted on sight. Back to Digital Spy, they prefer you to contact them personally if you have any problems with the website, either with moderation or technical issues.
May I suggest that unless someone can come up with verifiable third-party references from both sides of the argument (forum members and moderators) that these edits stop and this information is not added to the article. Because of the controversial aspect of these edits, I have added a controversial issue tag to the top of this talk page. If anyone wants to discuss the controversy of moderation on Digital Spy, then the article on Wikipedia, having a target of being a verifiable and neutral encyclopedia, isn't the place to do it. ----tgheretford (talk) 12:41, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
Unfortunately there is no way to document moderation issues
In fact i've experienced mods who apply bans for things that are extremely dubious aka extreme interpretations of the term "offensive" and then when called on it go back and try to clean up the thread further to cover their asses to look consistent. It still doesnt work because by that standard of moderation the entire thread shouldn't exist. It seems merely mentioning that certain african american names are indicators of lower socio economic class= you banned for stereotyping. It is a strange place where freedom of speech simply doesn't exist, and political correctness is taken to the logical extreme, especially it seems if the mod might have an axe to grind with you about your political opinions. This is only one of several incidents i've experienced with digital spy. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 21:25, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
User Alanjay - Conflict of interest
I'm wondering if people here realise that the user alanjay is in fact the Business Director of Digital Spy. . Why therefore, is this person making edits to his own article. Is that not against the rules? 188.8.131.52 (talk) 15:57, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
- Fair point if true. I had something similar happen on another article. I had a run in with a well known radio group in the UK who were removing my good faith edits regarding one of their radio stations. You may wish to read Wikipedia:Conflict of interest and Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard. If Alanjay is the business director on Digital Spy, he should declare an interest on this talk page, as per Wikipedia:Conflict of interest#Editors who may have a conflict of interest. --tgheretford (talk) 16:09, 23 June 2008 (UTC)
Hi - Sorry about this - I am a "Director" of Digital Spy Limited but did not realise I should "declare" this conflict of interest. I have in edits and comments made on this TALK page tried to follow the "conflict of interests" guidelines mentioned above. I have tried whenever I have commented on this Talk page or made edits to hopefully ONLY provide publicly available facts and answer queries and questions asked in this talk thread (for example I think I added some citations, from well regarded 3rd party web sources, as requested). I have tried always to stay within the guidelines and let the community choose how the page evolves. If I have not stayed within the guidelines I apologise - I have tried to do so. Alanjay (talk) 13:17, 24 June 2008 (UTC)alanjay
The funny thing is that alanjay would have been banned from his own site had he not stayed within the "guidelines" and an apology would not have got the ban revoked! (speaking from experience of a minor breach of guidelines followed by an apology and explanation which got me nowhere)
Funny how the person complaining doesn't leave their name. Wikipedia is a self controlling group of people who produce a great body of work by consensus among many. I am told that the forum moderators never ban for minor infractions they go through a series or warnings and temporary bans before reaching the point of having a permanent ban. Alanjay (talk) 19:11, 27 July 2008 (UTC)alanjay
- Well you can get a series of temporary bans for basically what amounts to a non-offence. Think of it as getting a life sentence for accruing too many parking tickets. The Digital Spy moderation is the worst I've seen on any forums, and no wonder the forum has such a bad reputation.184.108.40.206 (talk) 01:17, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
The most obvious citation is http://www.big-boards.com/ an independent site that tracks forums the Digital Spy forums are the 29th largest in the world and last week the forum members posted the 10 largest number of posts among tracked forums. http://www.big-boards.com/board/329/ . By the way this is not a description that Digital Spy has imposed here it is something that users have picked on and if you look at the forums you will see a very vibrant and fast moving discussion area devoted to Media, TV Satellite / Cable / DTT and general Broadcasting issues. Other Citations that I have found are http://www.thebill.com/page.asp?partid=561 from ITV.com. Also have a look at the Sources section of this page. Alanjay (talk) 19:26, 27 July 2008 (UTC)alanjay
"black orchid" was banned from digitalspy on 27th July 2008 13:30pm (BST) for declaring disbelief at an offensive quote from this discussion page. His post was removed from this thread http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=856211 and he was banned from using the digitalspy site:
Criticism of any aspect of homosexuality, however polite, will result in a temporary or permanent ban from the forum. However, posters are welcome to be as rude and insulting about any religion or religious belief as they like.
It would be a window into the moderation policy
if only it could be documented. sadly it can't because the mods do overreact at a drop of a dime, and when called on it will try to reclean the thread up even further to make themselves seem more consistent. but the reality is that they ban users much of the time using the most extreme and arbitrary interpretation of what is offensive. There seems to be a level of corruption or simply neglect in care for the forums. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 21:30, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
Digital Spy Forum Statistics
This seems not to have been updated recently - as I am asked not to make such changes I will make the comment here (is that ok?)
Big Boards which is an independent tracking site of many forums around the world http://www.big-boards.com/board/329/
Forum software: vBulletin Number of posts: 26,014,116 Number of members: 274,335 Post per member ratio: 95 Posts last week: 243,342 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alanjay (talk • contribs) 19:44, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
Viruses on site
The DS website is currently forwarding viruses, apparently through their advertising banners. While not directly responsible for the viruses, DS have not pulled the banners despite acknowledging the problem days ago. Should this be mentioned in the article? It's relevant, because it's dragging DS down as malware and people should be warned of it where possible. I'm not sure how relevant though, which is why I've added to the discussion and not edited the page. Wokstation (talk) 14:49, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
- Looking through for sources on Google News to meet verifiable policy, I can't see anything about the viruses/malware issues on the site which would meet that policy, so for the moment, I wouldn't add it. If it does get picked up by reliable sources, then that could be reviewed. --tgheretford (talk) 17:55, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
There are several here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/02/digital_spy_malware/ http://cyberinsecure.com/digitalspycouk-serves-infected-banner-ads-malware-mechanism-and-type-remain-unclear/ http://www.xiom.com/whid/2009/41/Ad_Malware_on_Digital_Spy http://www.totaltele.com/view.aspx?ID=446406
Er...In 2009............as of 31st January 2008?
Use of digital spy quotes for other Wikipedia pages?
Was just browsing through a few pages for songs (e.g. Marina and the Diamonds - Hollywood), and the first prominent review is by someone from Digital Spy. Now from reading through this I know they think they're a big forum etc., but surely DS doesn't rank up there with the likes of the BBC or NME? Do these belong on a huge site like this, as it's akin to taking quotes from the blog of a nobody. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 11:00, 9 March 2010 (UTC)
They gave away two awards in December 2009 - one to EastEnders for Soap of the Year and one to Barbara Windsor for Soap Icon, however it looks like they were the only two awards they gave out. anemoneprojectors talk 23:15, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
The website layout has changed and the current screenshot is outdated. Here is a new screenshot. http://i46.tinypic.com/1z31j44.png —Preceding unsigned comment added by KaneRyles (talk) 19:32, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
- That's fine, as long as it meets the policies and guidelines for fair use - in particular adding a copyright template, information on where it was sourced (the front page of the website) and a fair use rationale. You'll need to set-up an account and be active for four days with a good standing account and have made at least ten edits before you can upload it though. --tgheretford (talk) 21:48, 20 June 2010 (UTC)
Controversy Over Moderation Continues
Moderation of Digital Spy continues to be controversial in that it is heavy handed and politically slanted. It employs a large number of liberal-left leaning young and gay people who are particularly involved in gay rights activism and this informs its moderation policy. Its articles are often hard hitting towards those it disapproves of, but the site does not bear any similar examination of its own reporters. While there is much anecdotal frustration around the net with Digital Spy's practices, it's difficult to cite evidence as the proof has been inevitably deleted. Can anybody help? The politics and practices of the site considering its reach are surely ripe for discussion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 01:03, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
Any objection to switching the title to italics? I'm looking at WP:ITALICS, which says:
Online magazines, newspapers, and news sites with original content should generally be italicized
01:03, 16 September 2014 (UTC)