Talk:Disappearance of Dorothy Forstein

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Disappearance of Dorothy Forstein article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Crime and Criminal Biography Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Philadelphia Mid‑importance

	Philadelphia portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Philadelphia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Philadelphia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PhiladelphiaWikipedia:WikiProject PhiladelphiaTemplate:WikiProject PhiladelphiaPhiladelphia articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Age discrepancy

The infobox says Forstein was aged 39 but a quick subtraction gives 40. The discrepancy is because birth_date is entered as 1909|10|9 but for the disappeared_date it's entered as 1909|11|9. One of those months is wrong, but it's also possible both are wrong. Akld guy (talk) 08:05, 13 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, judging by the age she was when she disappeared (40) she'd be 109 right now, probably dead. Should there be a box saying: "death: unknown"??? Just another anon (talk) 21:18, 18 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]

AFD

are there any half decent sources for this, if not I think and afd is in order.Slatersteven (talk) 16:07, 14 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. Don't forget to do some WP:BEFORE though. "If there are verifiability, notability or other sourcing concerns, take reasonable steps to search for reliable sources." "The minimum search expected is a normal Google search, a Google Books search, a Google News search, and a Google News archive search". You will find multiple newspaper and magazine articles, and a few books. Thanks and regards, Biwom (talk) 02:01, 15 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I did such a search, and I found the same sources as used for citation in the article, that does not establish notability.Slatersteven (talk) 09:34, 15 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

this is about the best source I found [1], issues.

Not sure this is RS.

it puts the date of the disappearance as 1950, so just how reliable are the rs that say it was 1949?

Notability is proved by multiple RS.Slatersteven (talk) 09:40, 15 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Hello. When (if ever) you start this AfD, instead of saying "this is the best source I found and I'm not sure it's RS", it will be much less time-consuming for everybody if you list all the sources you've found and then let people determine what is "best" and what is "RS". This is what I found:

all sorts of websites and blogs in all sorts of languages
multiple American newspaper articles from 1949 and 1950 (everywhere on the web including at google.com/newspapers)
a multipager in the Coronet dated 1954 (google book)
four pages in a book by Jay Robert Nash dated 1978 (google book)
an article in Weekly World News dated 1981 (best source ever)
a chapter in The World's Greatest Unsolved Crimes, a book which seems to originate in 1984 Britain
an article in Encyclopedia of World Crime, again by Jay Robert Nash (1990?)

You are much welcome to copy and paste this list in the AfD, especially if you explain that the article was de-prodded by Biwom with the edit summary "unPRODing - easily passes WP:GNG".

Thanks and regards, Biwom (talk) 14:09, 15 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Blogs and youtube are not RS, and this does not explain why the articles sources contradict one I found. Tyhe blog, Tunblr and youtube sources need replacing with the books listed above. I do not have access to these books, as you do maybe you should use RS, and not dubious crouches and so establish it is notable outside of a few blogs and you tibers.Slatersteven (talk) 14:20, 15 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The only RS I've seen is the tiny old newspaper article about someone disappearing. All the "BIZARRO WEIRDNESS" books are works of fiction, not RS.

I think AfD is the best place to sort this out.

I know that a "myserious event" can be notable if it's well-documented (like, say, Roswell UFO incident) - but this doesn't have that kind of coverage. I think we're perpetuating an urban-legend. 86.20.193.222 (talk) 15:20, 16 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Removed blogs, facebook, and other sources which will not meet WP:RS in a dog's age. Collect (talk) 13:06, 19 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Jules Forstein's obituary (which appears in the 2 January 1956 issue of The Philadelphia Inquirer) discusses his wife's disappearance at length. This would seem to verify the validity of the story, as I doubt the press would invent such a story at risk of the Magistrate taking legal action against them.

When?

OK, this is just silly.

When did she disappear, if sources cannot agree on that just how reliable are they? hell if we do not know when this happened how do we know it did?Slatersteven (talk) 11:04, 21 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it says: "On the night of October 18, 1949 or 1950..." with a reference for each. Later, to make matters worse, it says: "Oddly, four years before her disappearance, on the night of January 25, 1944, Dorothy had been attacked in her home...", which implies a 1948 date. Something's very wrong here. Akld guy (talk) 11:37, 21 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The last one refers to an earlier attack.Slatersteven (talk) 11:50, 21 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Which (according to some sources) occurred a year later in 1945.Slatersteven (talk) 11:51, 21 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Did you even read what I wrote? The "four years before" implies a date for this disappearance of 1948, so we have 3 years stated - 1948, 1949, 1950. Please read instead of skimming and assuming what I meant. Akld guy (talk) 18:59, 21 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

My mistake I did not do the maths, the claim for 1944 is unsourced (i was talking about disagreements in sourced material), and the sources say it was in 1945. These are what I looked at, before putting the CN tag next to it. But it does nicely illustrate what a mess this article is.Slatersteven (talk) 19:09, 21 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

"Findthemissing.org" allows any registered user to add "facts." This, alas, clearly makes the site essentially a Wiki per se, as it is not noted exactly whether a law enforcement agency adds the facts, or simply a "registered user" who does not have specific credentials. The fact it gets money from the DoJ does not make WP:RS inapplicable. Collect (talk) 12:25, 21 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

the Chicago Tribune. 1949-10-24 cite says 1949, so either this is fake or . Among the Missing: An Anecdotal History of Missing Persons from 1800 to the Present is wrong, which would invalidate its use as an RS in this case.Slatersteven (talk) 13:18, 21 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

And now we have the date 1949 cited to a source that say 1950. This is just a joke.Slatersteven (talk) 14:19, 22 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

For what it's worth, Jules Forstein's obituary (which appears in the 2 January 1956 issue of The Philadelphia Inquirer) discusses his wife's disappearance at length. It places the date of her disappearance as 18 October 1949, and the place as 1835 N. Franklin St, Philadelphia. This would seem to verify the validity of the story.

rs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard#missing_persons Slatersteven (talk) 14:36, 22 March 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Birth place

Which source lists her birth place?Slatersteven (talk) 17:44, 12 April 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Where did she disappear from?

The article does not explicitly state what town she disappeared from, let alone name the street her home was in.Cloptonson (talk) 10:33, 12 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

From what I learned on YT, in her home. A guy just came in and picked her up and walked away. Just another anon (talk) 15:31, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Oof I'm dumb, I misread. Sorry. Just another anon (talk) 15:31, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1835 N. Franklin St, Philadelphia, according to the husband's obituary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:3D08:5D81:E200:79F9:32C5:3D66:E617 (talk) 04:33, 20 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]