Talk:Dolores O'Riordan

"Voice" section

@Ashmoo: Hello. I just saw : failed verification. Can you tell me more to improve this sentence without deleting it?

→ Familiar to the 90s alt-rock belt but always devoted to her love for falsetto, her voice was rather light without applying an uncomfortable weight and she characteristically deployed a soft projection when she sang the lowest notes.
"falsetto" (breathy sound) is the most piercing voice of a singer. "low notes" is the opposite, her lowest note is : B2. "belt or belting" is the strongest, loud voice, it's near screaming but still clean singing it's rock like in her songs "Promises" or Hollywood". It's not very complicated for those who do not know that, there are Wikipedia links. The text is a differently written version than what is in source 141 (therangplanet.proboards.com). The orignial text is under "Vocal Summary" of the source. I did not invent anything everything is in this source. Oroborvs (talk) 17:52, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Oroborvs, I agree with the effort to include some description of her vocal style in the article. But of course we need to abide by wikipedia policies of WP:Verifiable, Reliable source and No original research. Thank you for taking the time to find some sources. However, I had to remove two sources on WP:RS grounds. When you add information (especially appraisals), we need to ensure that the sources are reliable, which means that the source is generally respected for their opinions on the topic. Anonymous commentators do not count, unfortunately. The sources for the 'rock belt' and 'falsetto' are OK, but not great. It would be much better to find a single knowledgeable source that appraises her singing and include that. This would solve all our problems. Ashmoo (talk) 13:07, 13 December 2019 (UTC)

Ashmoo, the only reliable source is The Range Planet (version 2.0 of The Range Place) from which the information is taken from the first two and a half lines of the paragraph (which also includes terminologies : "alt-rock belting", "falsetto", "light voice", "soft projection"). This website is considered as the first reference for the analysis of the voices of the singers, and mentioned on USA Today, The Telegraph, Time. O'Riordan's page was written by one of the four administrators of The Range Planet. Studies concerning voice type, vocal range, number of octaves, and significant high/low notes are done by vocal trainers and people experienced in singing. Her vocal range corresponds to a normal voice type of a mezzo-soprano and they do not exaggerate in their analyses because they only count studio recordings, not concerts, indeed he told me that her voice had reached to C#6 (a note above C6) on "Dreams" live in Basel, Switzerland 2007, this is why her highest note is considered as C6 which is on the studio recording song "Pathetic Senses" of 1993. I searched for months, her vocal profile on The Range Planet is the only source of extremely detailed information on the voice of O'Riordan, there is no other reliable source except succinct and basic things repeated in the media like "lilting keening", "celtic voice", "yodeling" . Also, the quote : "She didn't sing much in the 5th octave", comes from a youtube video of a vocal analysis made by an experienced singer / vocal trainer. Oroborvs (talk) 20:28, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Images

There's a lack of picture, from Artistry to Death section. It's a bit dull to have only text in this area, while there are three images right before. Oroborvs (talk) 20:02, 5 January 2020 (UTC)

blood alcohol level at death 33 times the legal limit to drive in USA?

I don't know anything about this, but the article says, I believe, that the autopsy showed that her blood alcohol legal 33 times the legal limit to drive in much of the USA. I strongly suspect that it's wrong by a magnitude of ten. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:701:C002:FD40:48F2:B8CA:DC1B:79D (talk • contribs)

I'm not seeing this phrase in the article, what is the exact sentence that you are questioning? — xaosflux ^Talk 10:56, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

3.30 grams of alcohol per one litre of blood is ordinary: 3,36 grammes par litre de sang → English: 3.36 grams per liter of blood → 3.36 g/L. The drink drive limit in UK is 0,8 "in grams of alcohol in one liter of blood": Permitted blood alcohol levels for driving in Europe in 2018*, by country. Oroborvs (talk) 11:58, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

And the reference source says 330mg of alcohol per 100ml of blood - meaning she was more than four times over the 80mg legal limit for driving - so I don't think there is anything to do here. — xaosflux ^Talk 12:48, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Yes, it is factual. A binge drinking can lead to coma or death. Oroborvs (talk) 13:57, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

In the US, 3.36 g/L would be called 0.33% (which is over 4 times the legal limit of 0.08%). I added a clarification, since hundreds of millions of people use this unit, but I got reverted by Oroborvs who apparently thinks that additional clarity is somehow undesirable. I also included a cross-reference to the Wikipedia page on Blood alcohol content, but that same user thought that cross-reference also to be undesirable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ba2kell (talk • contribs) 19:21, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

@Ba2kell: Hi. Regarding "Blood alcohol content", it is indeed relevant. "0.33%", I mean, in my country, people speak in milligrams or g/L of blood alcohol level, and the percentage is more the police who use it. However, if you write here "In the US, 3.36 g/L would be called 0.33%", it becomes more understandable. To say that "(US: 0.33%)" gives a more accurate and concise picture. Oroborvs (talk) 21:33, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

@Oroborvs: Hi. Respectfully, Wikipedia is filled with converted units that are used regionally, without qualification labels. We don't say "37.0 °C (In the US, 37.0 °C would be called 98.6 °F)", even though the US is one of the very few countries that still uses °F. And, I'm not sure that there is any country that uses mmol/l when talking non-scientifically about a person's blood alcohol level. Reporting values with the most common units is common throughout Wikipedia. This practice improves the readability and usability of a resource that is used in many societies worldwide, with a variety of individual preferences.

My edit was a good faith attempt to clarify something that confused me, and apparently also confused the OP on this talk thread. However, I will defer to you. Other people can continue to be confused. I am now disengaging from this conversation. Have a good day.--Ba2kell (talk) 22:58, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

@Ba2kell: There is nothing dramatic; the aim is the understanding of the reader. Although I have no doubts about the veracity of "71.8 mmol/l", I do not know what it means. I have nothing to impose on you; however, a consensus needs to be reached as we are both confused. These units should have sources to support them, but within #Death section it's awkward. I suggest that you add an explanatory note (using lower-alpha efn) after the sentence to explain "0.33%" and "71.8 mmol/l", supported by reliable sources within the note. Perhaps "3.30 g/L" is unclear to a general audience in the US and needs to be explained. There are already notes in the article; you can add one. Oroborvs (talk) 18:58, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

It seems like you're both in agreement that mmol/l, despite being the SI unit, is not commonly used outside of a scientific setting (I also agree with this), so we should just remove that as well as the very lengthy description given first. I think it should just read "but a blood alcohol content of 3.30 g/L (0.33%)". I'm assuming there that g/L is the most commonly spoken of unit in the UK. If it's not, then replace with whatever is. There's no reason to give the exact word-for-word description from the source and you never need additional sources for simple mathematical conversions. -- Fyrael (talk) 21:34, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

@Fyrael: For my part, I agree with what you say. I have no problem with that. Oroborvs (talk) 17:07, 20 October 2021 (UTC)

Guitar

I think the article could be improved by adding more details to her instrumts any the way she played them. Of course, she became famouy fof singing and writinc but imho every musician deserves to have paid attention to all of his musical activities. Gwele kloz (talk) 09:23, 4 October 2024 (UTC)