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Catalan / Spanish

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The longstanding consensus (via silence) here has been that Ferran should be listed as Catalan. A series of IPs have been coming by to change it to Spanish while refusing to engage in any discussion whatsoever.

The simple fact is, Catalan implies Spanish, the reverse is not true, and Adria is very proud of--and identifies with--his Cataln heritage. The staff chefs at elBulli were all Catalan (as opposed to the international stagiers), the language spoken most often in the kitchen was Catalan. It is both the most accurate designation, and the one which most closely aligns with how the subject of a BLP identifies himself. We defer to self-identification in matters of sexuality and gender identity; I fail to see why we should do otherwise here. → ROUX ₪ 13:30, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]


"Catalan implies Spanish, the reverse is not true" said by ROUX. I dont know what is your reason to say that. If you think that Catalan implies Spanish its obvious that Spanish implies ALL the cities and places located in Spain. Also, Im not omitting in the article that is from Catolonia as you can see. I know very well people like you that try to erase all "Spanish things" that can involve your ideology. If not, you would have mentioned that he is Spanish and you would have kept my revision. I dont hate Catalonia, I love it. Im very proud that Catalonia is a Spanish region. Im not a natiolastic. However when you try to ommit the evidence you are concealing the reality and your acts show your "real face". This is a fact. My article is more ACCURATE than yours, Im providing more information than you are in the article and that is the spirit of Wikipedia. This is a fact. WIKIPEDIA IS NOTE A SITE FOR IDEOLOGIES IT IS FOR OBJETIVE KNOWLEDGE - Edited by GABRIEL (CyL). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.29.181.217 (talk) 15:38, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Is there a good reason why it took this long to force you to actually discuss this on the talk page? It is clear that Adria considers his identity Catalan first, Spanish second. Everyone from Catalan is Spanish. Not everyone from Spain is Catalan. Ergo, calling him Catalan is more accurate than simply calling him Spanish. Either way, given your refusal to discuss up until this point, your arguments are obviously a pile of crap; if you actually had an argument you would have made it before. Oh, and as for calling me nationalistic.. I'm fucking Canadian, for fuck's sake, and as far as I know not one piece of my ancestry is Spanish (or Catalan) in any way. → ROUX ₪ 16:06, 24 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Im not an english-talking. Thats the reason I doubted to use Talk tool. I apologize. Please I would like you didnt use impolite words like "fucking Canadian" "pile of crap" "for fuck´s sake". To give your opinions its not necessary to use them.I dont understand why you have not been banned.... Im not going to argue with you all my life but please if you are trying to convince me about this theme, ok, go on!.... If you consider that he is Catalan first and Spanish second, alright (im not deny this affirmation), then you edit the article and put "... he is a Catalan chef ....born in LHospitalet de Llobregat (Spain)". Because EVERYONE in the world dont know that Catalonia is in Spain. If I search, for instance, Avril Lavigne and only read that he is from Belleville, Do I Know where Belleville is? Now I would have to search Belleville to know that Avril Lavigne is Canadian... GREAT!(nice way of think you have....) This is Wikipedia Im editing an actual fact. I dont understand what part of that you dont understand . Am I saying a lie?? Please answer me!! Im helping to everybody to know more about him. No more than that. GABRIEL (CyL)

Looking at Catalonia and the statement there with the official status of a "nationality" of Spain. I would say that it is correct to say he is Catalan chef. Being Catalonian implies being Spanish, as it is a subdivision of it. Night of the Big Wind talk 19:28, 27 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Roux is correct. Even I, who know precious little on the subject, know that Adrià identifies himself as Catalonian. Also, considering that Catalan cuisine, itself, is substantially different from Spanish cuisine in general, it is particularly egregious to do something that confuses not only that distinction, but also Adrià's own preferences. Zlama (talk) 02:08, 4 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Of course the biggest deciding factor on what we call Adrià, Spanish or Catalan, is what the sources say. I will look at the provided sources and edit accordingly. IrishStephen (talk) 11:48, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The most autorative source is off course mr. Adria himself. When he says he is Catalan, he is Cataln. Point. End of discussion. The Banner talk 14:05, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Except this is Wikipedia and all statements must be from a verifiable third party source. Now, if there is an interview in a newspaper or on a website where he says he's Catalan then we can use that as a source. IrishStephen (talk) 18:24, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
There are enough external sources that say he is Catalan. this one, or this one, or this one. No need to mess around in the Spanish-Catalonian rift. The Banner talk 21:14, 6 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The second of the two New York Times pieces calls him Spanish, though the other two do call him Catalan. As there is division between what the different sources say, I think it is fair to err on the conservative side and retain the designation of Spanish within the article. I've no problem with mentioning his Catalan heritage, but for a formal statement of nationality Spanish is more correct.IrishStephen (talk) 15:26, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Don't you think he is automatically Spanish, when he is Catalan? The Banner talk 18:57, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Well, yes he is Spanish. He is from Spain and identifies as being from Spain, he just identifies with a particular region of Spain. I am not saying he's a Castilian, if that's what you are implying. — Preceding unsigned comment added by IrishStephen (talk • contribs) 19:31, 7 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
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