Talk:For the beauty of the earth (Rutter)

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A fact from For the beauty of the earth (Rutter) appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 26 November 2020 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that in For the beauty of the earth, a 1978 anthem for choir and orchestra, John Rutter gave a 19th-century hymn text a new melody, marking it to be sung "Happily"?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2020/November. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/For the beauty of the earth (Rutter).

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Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Yoninah (talk) 18:51, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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~~... that For the beauty of the earth, a 1980 anthem for choir and orchestra by John Rutter who gave a 19th-century hymn text a new melody, is marked to be sung "Happily"?~~ Source: several

Reviewed: Vä Church
Comment: Per mood and content, this would work for U.S. Thanksgiving, written for a Texas organization. Or any day. - On the only pic of the composer that we have, he looks way too old.

5x expanded by Gerda Arendt (talk). Self-nominated at 17:25, 15 October 2020 (UTC).[reply]

Hi Gerda Arendt, review follows: article 5x expanded from 15 October; article exceeds minimum length; article is well written and cited inline throughout to reliable sources; I didn't find any issues with overly close parphrasing; hook is interesting to me, mentioned in the article and backed up by the sources; a QPQ has been carried out. Looks good to me - Dumelow (talk) 17:58, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

One comment I had, should the title be capitalised? - Dumelow (talk) 18:00, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tough question. If this was just a four-part setting, certainly not. If it was a cantata, certainly yes. This sits in between, with instrumental intro, and four verses all done differently (although to the same melody). I chose italics to differentiate from the hymn of the same name. - Compare Angels' Carol, but I understand the difference that it has a title. - We'd need an icon, and Thanksgiving is on 26 November this year. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:24, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Fair enough, well outside my area of expertise but happy to take your view on this - Dumelow (talk) 18:33, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know that I didn't even answer your question, but the one I had pondered: italics or not. Look. I like to take titles as published. Sometimes they tell me we have to our house style. - How about a tick, for the bot? --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:27, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am never sure whether it's italics or quotation marks; I am sure someone will weigh in with the MOS at some point. Can't believe I forgot the tick - Dumelow (talk) 19:32, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Gerda, what is going on with the punctuation in the title? The original hymn is in upper and lowercase letters, and in quotes. Why is this all lowercase and in italics? Yoninah (talk) 17:15, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Classical music titles. Small pieces (such as songs): Quotation marks. Larger pieces: italics. If this was just a four-part strophic setting, it would probably have no article, but if it had one, it would be quotation marks. This, however, sets all four stanzas differently, and with orchestra: "larger". Compare other pieces, such as Thou knowest, Lord, the secrets of our hearts (Purcell). Why on earth English hymn titles have all these capitals while they are just the first lines, so no true titles, - I don't know. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:22, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

ps: now that my suggestion mentioning Thanksgiving will appear before, this might suit Thanksgiving well. 26 November. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:25, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Gerda, thanks for the explanation. I'll move it to November 26, but there's a bit of run-on in the hook. You have the anthem description in the first clause, something about Rutter with no comma after his name in the second, and back to the anthem in the third. It's hard to parse. Yoninah (talk) 17:51, 3 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Back again, trying to promote. The inline cite (footnote 2) for Rutter adding music to an 1864 hymn text doesn't verify any of this information; it just lists the lyrics. Yoninah (talk) 18:08, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I juxtaposed the ref now to the 1984 hymn which has more stanzas. I don't know how to say simpler that Rutter invented a new melody, that it's not just a little song but a work for chorus and orchestra, and that he wanted it sung happily. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:28, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK. Isn't the anthem date 1978? How about:
ALT1: ... that in For the beauty of the earth, a 1978 anthem for choir and orchestra, John Rutter gave a 19th-century hymn text a new melody, marking it to be sung "Happily"? Yoninah (talk) 18:39, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
fine, good catch, and please forgive me for not seeing much difference - English remains a mystery ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 18:47, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you. Restoring tick for ALT1 per Dumelow's review. Yoninah (talk) 18:49, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]